The Official "The Dark Knight Is Overrated" Thread.

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight' started by GremlinZilla89, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. Ryan Registered

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    Lot of great points and thanks for this conversation. I guess the let down for me was the whole 'lie'. In my mind I had figured that the tdk ending was a setup for tdkr. That the whole lie was going to be this huge deal when it would be exposed in tdkr, when in fact, it turned out to be a non event when it was exposed.
    Here's a question for you. Bane's motivation. Other than helping out his love interest talia, was there any other real reason for his attack on gotham and batman.
     
  2. AndrewOz Registered

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    ....No.
    That was a massive problem for me with this movie. Bane was created to be the ultimate Batman villain in many ways.
    A self-made physical marvel, a brutal combatant, a genius level intellect and given a physical edge with Venom.
    He wasn't evil per se, but in contrast to Batman's strict moral code he was utterly amoral.
    They originally presented him as though he was a faithful adaptation of Batman's most dangerous foe.
    By co-opting his legend, they relegated him from being a grand villain who saw the defeat of Batman as the ultimate expression of his superiority, to a love-struck thug of a man-servant, who was brutalised by the inmates of the prison rather than being held in awe as their unassailable King.
    He was basically neutered.
    It cheapened his victory over Batman in the film and cheapened Batman's subsequent victory.
    ....You really know how to pick at a scab:cwink:
     
  3. Ryan Registered

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    Haha...sorry about that. Thanks for giving your take on that and other aspects of the films :)
     
  4. Batsfan1 Registered

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    A man not being a king and caring about a woman doesn't make him neutered. That's a little offensive. He wasn't love struck or even a real servant. Him being brutalized fits the normal human thing. Have a very great day!

    God bless you! God bless everyone!
     
  5. shauner111 Registered

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    The prisoners still feared Bane. He wasn't necessarily in love with Talia, he may have just loved her like one loves a child or a sister. We don't know if it was romantic. I also don't see him as a servant. Him and Talia were together on this. He did things without consulting her and even goes against her request at the end to not kill Batman. It's a 50/50 partnership. I NEVER saw it like Bane was a man-servant.
     
  6. Herofan Registered

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    Despite some pettiness, especially complaining a lot about the death of Harvey Dent (which was clearly unintentional/incidental to saving Gordon's son), I thought he made a few good points.

    I forget if he outright tried to "steal" Rachel away but it was annoying how he just assumed Rachel would of course choose him over Harvey. Also him flirting with revealing his identity but Harvey claiming it felt like building up Harvey at the expense of Bruce.

    That the prisoners were more moral than the rest always seemed a little pretentious and the overall message is indeed pretty grim, that ordinary institutions can't handle pressure (i.e. the police come to despise Batman and want to abandon him if he leads to dead cops), the authorities need less restraint and more power (the mass surveillance even though it tries to have it both ways by insisting it's for just this one time) and the masses need to be manipulated. Those aren't really story weaknesses but they seem a little underdeveloped and ignored by a lot of the viewers.

    The Joker probably shouldn't look outright harmless or fun-looking but the creepiness of the appearance should be somewhat subtle. Ledger's Joker looked and acted a little too angrily crazy and evil with too little humor, even dark humor, or charisma (though he had a few moments of dark charisma). He seems much more like an anarchist who incidentally uses a clown appearance rather than a dark/evil clown.
     
  7. Steamteck Registered

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    This guy is on my wavelength also. Thanks for the link
     
  8. wnjcwjkk Registered

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    I agree with the points made in the OP, although I think it's a fantastic movie, one of my favorite CBMs, but I agree it kinda comes apart in the final act, for whatever reason, every time I watch it, I'm like "This movie is incredible!" But then, the final act never lives up to the hype of the first two acts. People have called it The Godfather of CBMs, and I feel like it could have lived up to that if it had been a bit longer, closer to 3 hours, and the final hour was as good as the first hour. It needed a better climax, and more Two Face and a little more exploring Harvey Dent's other side before he turned into Two Face.


    I wouldn't call it overrated though. I remember seeing it in the theater, knowing absolutely nothing, aside from the one teaser with Joker in the cell, I didn't even know Harvey Dent was gonna be in the film, much less Two Face. And, as soon as Joker pulled off the clown mask, I was riveted, every time he showed up on screen, Idk that I've ever been that intrigued and blown away by a character and performance while watching a movie. One poster above said it right, Nolan and the cast captured lightning in a bottle.

    I don't think no matter what they do with Joker from now on, it will never be able to achieve that level, because it was just so unexpected and unheard of in a CBM at the time, but I don't think that should stop them from trying. I had high hopes after seeing that quick clip of Leto's Joker at the end of the CC trailer. But unfortunately, I don't think David Ayer was the right man for the job.
     
  9. shauner111 Registered

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    The final hour is incredible.
     
  10. guardians Registered

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    It;s a good movie, if you don't like it then move on - A lot of depth to it.
     
  11. Consona Registered

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    Re-watched it. It's the best film ever. :woot:
     
  12. shauner111 Registered

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    Eaaaaasy big fella!
     
  13. Milk Tray Guy 70s Man of Action

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    I love CBMs but this is the only one to make it into my all-time top ten films (it comes in at #8). As for live-action Batman movies I think Nolan and Burton both had some fantastic ideas - I'd rank my top 5 as

    1. The Dark Knight
    2. Batman Returns
    3. The Dark Knight Rises
    4. Batman Begins
    5. Batman '89
     
  14. 2002SpideyFan Elite Mentor

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    Iron Man, out of all Marvel heroes, is the one that should be taken seriously.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Granted, movies didn't do that. But that's not to say as if he never should be taken seriously.
     
  15. The_Manhunter Zack Snyder & MCU Fan

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    I know this is an old post, but I agree with much of what you said. That being said, I think TDK is still the best of the trilogy and an all-time great among comic book films. Really the only issue I have with it is the amount of sway Rachel has over Bruce.
     
  16. shauner111 Registered

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    Lmao so if he hadn't been wearing a helmet he would have been killed? "If". And that's why it's stupid? Ooooookaaay.
     
  17. TheFlamingCoco Registered

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    I think the thread is fan-baitey.

    "Let's insult one of your favorite movies."

    A simple "criticisms of TDK" would do.

    That being said, I think TDK falters the most with its third act.

    The fight on top of the building is downright cartoony, with Batman rigging up safety cables on the fly while saving everyone even with him moving sluggishly at times.

    I'm in the minority where I think TDK is brilliant at first viewing, but loses appeal on subsequent viewings.

    It's like it's designed for the mystery of what's going to happen to carry along the second half of the movie.

    I'm sure there's some character analysis out on the web, and maybe I should read some, but the characters seem to be straightforward outside of the Joker.

    So while I think it's an exceptional entry in the superhero genre, I don't think it's one of the best movies ever made. So in that sense I find it overrated.
     
  18. Batmannerism Super-unknown

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    You know, every time I think this movie is overrated I watch it....and re-discover that it isn't.
     
  19. Alex Logan Yes, Mr. Smith.

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    Exactly.
     
  20. Alex Logan Yes, Mr. Smith.

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    At least two of these points are inaccurate. Bruce didn't quit being Batman because of Rachel's death and he didn't "push" Harvey Dent. However, he does make a good case for no love interest and Dent being his childhood friend. I've long said that "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight" didn't need a love interest.
     
    #120 Alex Logan, Sep 9, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  21. BruceWayne2 Registered

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    I love the film. But some criticisms would be that a lot of the internal logic of the real world aspect of the film is a little flawed, like too many things kinda just coincidentally work out just to move the story quickly, or you can't really stop and think about certain things too long. Like the whole Gordon faking his death thing. How did they plan that it was gonna work out like that, when they didn't even know how the assassination attempt was gonna go down? And if Batman was in on it, why does he show up at Gordon's residence all brooding and "God help whoever he does wanna talk to." You could say it was just for show and to protect his family and get the element of surprise on Joker, but really it was all just meant to be a big twist for the audience.

    Or what was Scarecrow doing, selling his fear toxin as a drug then showing up to rub it in the guy's face after he bought a lot without testing it out first, but then maybe he's gonna buy some more of it because Batman didn't leave anybody else to score drugs from. And then all these Batman impersonators find out about this weird meeting and show up to stop it, and somehow Batman has his Batmobile programmed to just crash into this third story parking garage and shoot a rocket launcher without killing anybody, all on it's own.

    The bus backs straight into a bank in broad daylight, then Joker pulls out perfectly into a big line of school buses and drives off like it's all normal? Any one of those buses Would have seen that and have access to a radio, the cops would come and Joker would have a hard time escaping under those circumstances. But it's just meant to show how slick Joker is

    Joker knew they would be taking a boatload of escaping Gothamites as well as a boatload of prisoners st the same time. The whole thing acting like Harvey's Rico arrests were responsible for everybody on the boat, and that one big arrest cleaned up the streets and put a stop to all organized crime. Just seems too convenient and easy

    Those are a couple examples off the top of my head. But they're easy to overlook, because the film moves at such a speed and is so high quality that you don't really need to stop and think about the internal logic too much
     
  22. BruceWayne2 Registered

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    I like it being a mystery, but my favorite is the online fan theory that he used to be a soldier and something terrible happened to him ("A truckload of soldiers will get blown to bits. Nobody panics.") that would make sense with his knowledge of weapons, explosives, and hand to hand combat. Maybe he was a sociopath so he signed up for the military to get to participate in chaos and killing. Then his unit got blown to bits and he was captured, a POW, tortured, and snapped.
     
  23. shauner111 Registered

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    Cant argue with a lot of this. Most of what you're saying is the reason why I can't look at TDK or any of the films as masterpieces. TDK is still a classic, always enjoyable. One of my favorites from that decade. But you have to ignore some things, not unlike Begins or Rises. That's why I still roll my eyes when ppl on here tear Rises apart but act like the first two movies were so neat and tidy.
     
  24. Herofan Registered

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    I kind of hate the discussion of the Roman dictator-protectors, trying to use it as a positive model seems like a really weak, forced claim since it's a very obvious response that sooner or later one would/actually did come, and became infamous, who refused to give up the power.
     
  25. ashwilliams8891 Registered

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    The plotting of the film up to this point is fierce and perfectly paced.
     

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