The Dark Knight Rises Anyone else think they overrated Harvey Dent's importance to the story?

[Walt Bickle]

Ex-cops if we're to believe the virals (which is where the cop thing originated, it's not anywhere in the movie). And if they didn't have intent to kill why the heck where they firing at The Chechen's gang? They only reason they didn't kill anybody was because they were horrible shots.

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Brian_Douglas

As for Blake...of course Bruce knew. A lot happens off screen, a few weeks go by, he gets back to Gotham and gets his affairs in order before he makes his presence known. You think he didn't get a handle on what the situation was? Obviously he was aware that Blake was active and not trapped under ground, that's why he in advance, puts him in his will, and then finds him to give him the job of leading people over the bridge, rather than on the front lines (slyly protecting him in the process). There's even a line in the script that wasn't in the movie where he implies to Blake that he kept tabs on him via a tracking bug. I'm not confusing anything, I'm just making common sense assumptions in a movie where a lot of time elapses and you have to read between the lines a bit (which is fine...some movies do that).

why would they be terrible shots? they wouldn't have got to be cops if they were. they were merely busting up the drug deal. it is clear that this isn't the vigilantes first time doing this and if they had killed anyone before that, they wouldn't be in the positioned to be kidnapped by joker after batman leaves them for the cops.

you have to remember that bruce spent tie painting a big fire bat on the bridge even though gotham was going to be blown up in mere hours. there is no way he set all this up and wrote out his will as well... he would have to have done all this before bane broke him.. ( while slyly protecting him? ) I don't get how batman is so stupid and fails everythin he does in the film. but then at the end he becomes god like and miraculoussly returns to gotham and is able to be everywhere at once

 

[Walt Bickle]

why would they be terrible shots? they wouldn't have got to be cops if they were. they were merely busting up the drug deal. it is clear that this isn't the vigilantes first time doing this and if they had killed anyone before that, they wouldn't be in the positioned to be kidnapped by joker after batman leaves them for the cops.

you have to remember that bruce spent tie painting a big fire bat on the bridge even though gotham was going to be blown up in mere hours. there is no way he set all this up and wrote out his will as well... he would have to have done all this before bane broke him.. ( while slyly protecting him? ) I don't get how batman is so stupid and fails everythin he does in the film. but then at the end he becomes god like and miraculoussly returns to gotham and is able to be everywhere at once

just read the douglas wiki and seen that infact that was there first outing... but it also states 'Brian, along with Anton and others, attempted to help Batman deal with Scarecrow and his thugs, by firing guns at them'.
it doesn't say anything about intent to kill.

 

[milost]

Riddler's Chemotherapy?

 

[BatLobster]

Because shooting at armed gangsters seems like a GREAT idea. That's not gonna start a shootout or anything where they're gonna shoot right back at you. It's dumb and amateur no matter how you slice it. They also had no way of knowing that Batman would show up there. If Batman didn't show up, that ends in a deadly shootout.

 

[Walt Bickle]

Riddler's Chemotherapy?

in the hush series riddler uses the lazuras pitt to cure his cancer. they could adapt this so riddler and bane could be affiliated with the league.

Because shooting at armed gangsters seems like a GREAT idea. That's not gonna start a shootout or anything where they're gonna shoot right back at you. It's dumb and amateur no matter how you slice it. They also had no way of knowing that Batman would show up there. If Batman didn't show up, that ends in a deadly shootout.

shoot to injure?? I may have to backtrack with this cos now I don't have enough proof that they had no intent to kill.

but still think he could've trained them, he could've made a miller bat army instead of using blake on a whim.

catwoman intended to shoot someone as well as other crimes, did bruce care? nope. he still worked with her

 

[BatLobster]

I'm sorry, but you don't use an uzi (a weapon they don't train you for in the police academy I might add) if you're aiming to injure. Tell you the truth, who even cares what their intentions were. The point was, they were out of their element and were likely to cause way more harm than anything.

Bruce specifically disarmed Catwoman and told her, "No guns. No killing." Not to mention she was primarily a thief not a killer. She was okay with taking a life when it came down to her survival, but she wasn't someone who carried a gun on her. She took Stryver's gun after both her and Daggett pulled guns on her and tried to kill her. That's still a difference a misguided attempt to ambush mobsters with a mini militia.

 

[milost]

Forget about intent, I want to know where Brian Douglass got such a cool and accurate Begins cowl from. That mask was legit.

 

[shauner111]

just read the douglas wiki and seen that infact that was there first outing... but it also states 'Brian, along with Anton and others, attempted to help Batman deal with Scarecrow and his thugs, by firing guns at them'.
it doesn't say anything about intent to kill.

Virals don't really mean anything. They're like novelizations. Where Denny O'Neill was able to throw in a Talia reference or the one in Rises where they mention Joker's whereabouts. If we're to go by virals, then there's a reference to Edward Nashton, the Iceberg Lounge and Haley's Circus.

 

[Walt Bickle]

I'm sorry, but you don't use an uzi (a weapon they don't train you for in the police academy I might add) if you're aiming to injure. Tell you the truth, who even cares what their intentions were. The point was, they were out of their element and were likely to cause way more harm than anything.

Bruce specifically disarmed Catwoman and told her, "No guns. No killing." Not to mention she was primarily a thief not a killer. She was okay with taking a life when it came down to her survival, but she wasn't someone who carried a gun on her. She took Stryver's gun after both her and Daggett pulled guns on her and tried to kill her. That's still a difference a misguided attempt to ambush mobsters with a mini militia.

Okay your points are pretty valid, but I still hate the blake plot, if they had more screen time and character development together then fine.. but the way it all came bout was just riddic to me

Forget about intent, I want to know where Brian Douglass got such a cool and accurate Begins cowl from. That mask was legit.

ha ha forgot how much I hated that, thought I was the only one. They advertise batman as this unseeable ghost ninja figure in begins, but in dark knight...nope! batman became a public figure with no explanation off screen between movies.... it was truly a missed opportunity to bring in masks from the comics imo.

Virals don't really mean anything. They're like novelizations. Where Denny O'Neill was able to throw in a Talia reference or the one in Rises where they mention Joker's whereabouts. If we're to go by virals, then there's a reference to Edward Nashton, the Iceberg Lounge and Haley's Circus.

forgot about the nashton one.. never saw the others. was very sceptical about it seeing as i'm pretty sure they were establishing reese as the Nolan riddler...

 

[TheBlur]

forgot about the nashton one.. never saw the others. was very sceptical about it seeing as i'm pretty sure they were establishing reese as the Nolan riddler...

I have ALWAYS seen Mr. Reese as Nolan's version of the Riddler. Works at Wayne Enterprises, is smart, investigates and finds out Bruce is Batman, wears purple ties, has red hair, tries to blackmail Lucius Fox, threatens to expose Batman's secret identity to the world, etc.

Plus, Mr. Reese = Mysteries.

 

[Walt Bickle]

I have ALWAYS seen Mr. Reese as Nolan's version of the Riddler. Works at Wayne Enterprises, is smart, investigates and finds out Bruce is Batman, wears purple ties, has red hair, tries to blackmail Lucius Fox, threatens to expose Batman's secret identity to the world, etc.

Plus, Mr. Reese = Mysteries.

yeah exactly so many set ups and they drop out... pretty sure they were setting up the kid in begins as robin too, but both sequels seem to be a big jump from the stories they were developing.

 

[shauner111]

They weren't setting up Robin and they weren't setting up Reese to be Riddler in future installements. Riddler was never their plan for the 3rd movie, but it's possible that it was their nod to the character. For TDK only. Just like Barsad could have been Goyer's way of giving Deadshot a little nod, since he apparently likes that character. Didn't Goyer write the Deadshot/Killer Croc stories in Gotham Knight? That might explain why Barsad does a couple of things that remind me of him and even Tiny Lister's role in TDK reminds me of Brian Azarello's Croc to an extent. Everybody says "Ohhh but he's Amygdala! It says it in the credits!"...well i checked the credits about a month ago and there's no name given. So ill believe he's Nolan's Waylon Jones.

 

[TheBlur]

They weren't setting up Robin and they weren't setting up Reese to be Riddler in future installements. Riddler was never their plan for the 3rd movie, but it's possible that it was their nod to the character. For TDK only. Just like Barsad could have been Goyer's way of giving Deadshot a little nod, since he apparently likes that character. Didn't Goyer write the Deadshot/Killer Croc stories in Gotham Knight? That might explain why Barsad does a couple of things that remind me of him and even Tiny Lister's role in TDK reminds me of Brian Azarello's Croc to an extent. Everybody says "Ohhh but he's Amygdala! It says it in the credits!"...well i checked the credits about a month ago and there's no name given. So ill believe he's Nolan's Waylon Jones.

I have also always seen Barsad as Nolan's version of Deadshot. That's something I love, actually. Makes me feel like TDKT also presented it's versions of the Riddler and Deadshot, only in a more... realistic and modern kind of way.

 

[The Joker]

Deadshot? Why because he hit a couple of easy Cop targets in an alley?

 

[milost]

@ this current discussion


If Reese = Riddler and Barsad = Deadshot, Falafel guy totally = the Ventriloquist.

 

[shauner111]

Theyre not literally Riddler or Deadshot but they could be "nods" to them.

Deadshot? Why because he hit a couple of easy Cop targets in an alley?

Pretty much. You dont do a scene like that in a BATMAN movie, without thinking that fans aren't going to link that to Deadshot. You don't throw in a joke about cryo sleep in a BATMAN movie and not think that fans will be linking that to Mr. Freeze.

If they never did the Robin name gag, we would still be speculating on if Blake is Nolan's Robin because of the orphan connections, etc. They're nods to other characters without actually getting into them and their stories or details.

 

[milost]

Now the cat reference in Dark Knight, and alligator and cryo sleep in TDKR I can see. I think those are definitely there for the fans.

Not these characters like Reese or Basard though, that's just silly. The only "character equivalence" I could see is Ramirez "being" Montoya. That's it. Even then, other then gender and ethnicity they're a far cry from each other.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah. I always saw Ramirez as a Montoya type but it doesn't mean it's her. Maybe Stephens has a little bit of Bullock too. Nolan uses it as an influence right into a different character. Blake is not literally Robin but the nods are there. They just make it more obvious of a nod at the end because Robin is so insanely popular for the last 75 years.

I wouldnt doubt it if Barsad (even if it's just 1 scene) is a nod to Deadshot. Reese to Riddler.

 

[milost]

When I watch that scene with the sniper shots going off (and Selina in the bar), all I can think of is the Colorado shooting from July 20th. I remember the second time I saw it I had heard on the news that that was right around the time the shooting started. My second time was in IMAX, so all that gunfire was pretty loud. I found it pretty unsettling that night. I remember that was all the people in line talked about too.

 

[shauner111]

Crazy. I chose not to think about it. Never had to wait in line after the premier. Those scenes never made me think of the shootings either. I just put it out my mind because i can't control it.

 

[Walt Bickle]

even tho many of u probably thought the the black guy at the end of DK on the boat as a nod to killer croc, I always saw gambol as that.. he's a big angry gangster and drug dealer... and if he doesn't get his mouth stitched back up after his confrontation with joker he would have a crocodile smile

 

[Shikamaru]

If Barsad is Nolan's version of Deadshot (which we know he isn't), then that is the most piss-poor watered down version of Deadshot I have ever seen.

 

[shauner111]

Well he wouldn't be Nolan's version of him or else his name would be Floyd Lawton or Deadshot. But if there's a scene or two that is a nod to Deadshot, i think that's cool. And i dont mind because i never found Deadshot that exciting anyhow. I quite liked Josh Stewart and that character.

 

[milost]

I quite liked Josh Stewart and that character.

QFT.

For what little he was in there, I liked Barsad quite a bit. Almost makes me feel bad that he was working for lame villains like Talia and Bane. He had this almost, I don't know, Bob the Goon quality to him as this second hand man character. Like Bob to the Joker, Barsad to Bane.

I just wish there was more to him and he had a different death. He was a cool side-side character.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

If Barsad is Nolan's version of Deadshot (which we know he isn't), then that is the most piss-poor watered down version of Deadshot I have ever seen.

I never really get this sort of fan "logic" - a character wielding a sniper competently in a Batman movie? Clearly Deadshot.