Arkham Asylum: The Thread for Debating the Insane Topic of Batman Realism

[OnLeatherWings]

I mean, The Fly is a very realistic and gritty movie. You can have these more fantastical characters and it can still be “serious”.

Trying to take something that isn’t real and try to make it real just kinda misses the point to me.

"Stop! Blasphemer!"

 

[Gothamsknight]

I don't expect to see Man-Bat or Clayface in this world. I guess with Clayface they could go the original Basil Karlo route which could fit the noir stuff. Freeze and Poison Ivy are very possible too I think, and I really hope we see them. I feel like Ivy is honestly even more likely than Freeze.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

All I want from this series is to not shut the door on the fantastical elements. It doesn't have to feature Clay-Face, Killer Croc or some of the others - but I also don't want it to be so clear they're ruled out.

If that door is shut, it also hurts what we can imagine takes place later or in between and it impacts what an expanded universe in comics can explore, as well.

Just let us keep the imagination possibility.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

I mean, with the Penguin spin-off and the GCPD prequel, it does look like Reeves is trying to craft a Batverse in a way that hasn’t been done before. It would be a disservice if the ‘verse can’t grow beyond “bad guys in suits”.

 

[BMW 224]

Realism is great for the villains in my opinion.

Cynical realism affecting Batmans charactezation is where I draw the line or at least struggle to enjoy.

You can't break the world rules or direction being set up a Man bat or Clay Face would do that.

Matt Reeves can still use them but he don't attack him for inevitabley tweaking them to suit his vision.

Comic Books literally do this all the time so why can't Reeves ?

It's not set in stone or some ancient rule that everything has to be spiritual or fantasticil if you adapt Batman.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I have a semi-realistic way for Bat-Mite to appear in The Batman universe rooted in people’s first hand accounts about meeting “imps” or “elves” on the hallucinogen DMT.

Perhaps Mad Hatter, Scarecrow, or Joker drugs Batman with some kind of DMT derivative and Batman meets “Bat-Mite”, a reality-warping fifth dimensional imp that resembles the “machine elf” entities described by Terrence McKenna in his experiments. Batman could have an intense traumatic trip, but he emerges with knowledge on how to improve himself and defeat his enemies. It could be a powerful climax to a Batman film that hasn’t been witnessed before; emerging from an awful psychedelic trip with a new understanding of life’s purpose. It would be more of a mental battle than a physical one, but still grounded in reality. A number of Batman villains regularly dose Batman with psychedelic drugs, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for something like this to occur onscreen.



Source for the image on the right is the Wikipedia DMT entry, it’s an artist’s depiction of the “imps” or “elves” people describe meeting. Bat-Mite could look like this, but more Bat-themed. It could be an opportunity for some truly insane psychedelic visual sequences.

The whole Riddler/Zodiac, Batman/Cobain real life inspirations have certainly gotten the wheels turning in my head. Even with a completely unrealistic character like Bat-Mite, it can be a fun thought experiment to pick out possible real-life claims (be they true or false) for inspiration. The closest thing I can think of is these imps people describe meeting on DMT.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I think 'realistic' takes on Batman villains can be fun - but I'd rather that explored in an elseworlds graphic novel than film.

'Realistic' doesn't always mean better.

In the comics, Bane was a tortured child prisoner turned genius strategist pumped full of venom.

Through the 'realistic' filter - he became a Sean Connery-speaking strongman, breathing air-Tylenol through a metal crab who isn't a genius strategist, but takes orders from his mentor's daughter that he simps for.

I love the Nolan series, but I know which Bane I prefer.

 

[AndyTrevino]

I think 'realistic' takes on Batman villains can be fun - but I'd rather that explored in an elseworlds graphic novel than film.

'Realistic' doesn't always mean better.

In the comics, Bane was a tortured child prisoner turned genius strategist pumped full of venom.

Through the 'realistic' filter - he became a Sean Connery-speaking strongman, breathing air-Tylenol through a metal crab who isn't a genius strategist, but takes orders from his mentor's daughter that he simps for.

I love the Nolan series, but I know which Bane I prefer.

I still think a balance can be achieved.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I still think a balance can be achieved.

I'm all for that. That's what I think Reeves is kind of doing, too - at least I hope he is.

His Gotham already looks other-worldly. Batman's 50FT drop at the end of trailer 3 isn't 'grounded'.

So I'm a happy guy, so far.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I have a semi-realistic way for Bat-Mite to appear in The Batman universe rooted in people’s first hand accounts about meeting “imps” or “elves” on the hallucinogen DMT.

Perhaps Mad Hatter, Scarecrow, or Joker drugs Batman with some kind of DMT derivative and Batman meets “Bat-Mite”, a reality-warping fifth dimensional imp that resembles the “machine elf” entities described by Terrence McKenna in his experiments. Batman could have an intense traumatic trip, but he emerges with knowledge on how to improve himself and defeat his enemies. It could be a powerful climax to a Batman film that hasn’t been witnessed before; emerging from an awful psychedelic trip with a new understanding of life’s purpose. It would be more of a mental battle than a physical one, but still grounded in reality. A number of Batman villains regularly dose Batman with psychedelic drugs, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for something like this to occur onscreen.

View attachment 52512

Source for the image on the right is the Wikipedia DMT entry, it’s an artist’s depiction of the “imps” or “elves” people describe meeting. Bat-Mite could look like this, but more Bat-themed. It could be an opportunity for some truly insane psychedelic visual sequences.

The whole Riddler/Zodiac, Batman/Cobain real life inspirations have certainly gotten the wheels turning in my head. Even with a completely unrealistic character like Bat-Mite, it can be a fun thought experiment to pick out possible real-life claims (be they true or false) for inspiration. The closest thing I can think of is these imps people describe meeting on DMT.

Jamie pull up Batmite

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'd be lying if I DIDN'T say that my number one preference is to see a more realistic/adult Batman trilogy. 99 percent of the movies I love are still "funny" at the end of the day. The percentage of humour vs no humour varies but I need some comedy in my movies. Yet I still prefer an overall more serious and adult approach. Even to Batman yes. So what's wrong with that now? Is that taboo? I'm in my 30's and I don't care to watch childish entertainment. I'm not the demographic for that. And even when I was an underaged teen i had moved on to more adult storytelling. I'll ask again...is that taboo here?? I'm not a fan of most Star Wars or Harry Potter or MCU stuff because it doesn't fit my sensibilities. I don't need or want Batman to feel similar.

I've been a fan of this character for 30 years and make no mistake, I'm interested in seeing Clayface, Man Bat at some point. But it's more to do with "we've come all this way, let's see how a filmmaker approaches them" as opposed to "I LOVE these villains and can't wait to see them!". Even as a kid I didn't think any of those fantastical villains were special. The first time I even heard someone say that they adored them, I was on this forum. I was probably 20 years old. That's 13 years ago, and I'd STILL take a serial killer or gangster villain over a guy made of clay any day. I like “grounded”. Sue me. I’m also a film guy more than a comic book guy. ONce again...sue me.

"Adult man likes adult stuff!! How dare he!?"

Dude. You are posting on a superhero forum in threads about a superhero named BATMAN. You are taking a guy dressed up like a bat who is about to fight a dude in a trash bag named THE RIDDLER and acting like are witnessing some neorealism movement. You already lost the battle on not caring about watching childish entertainment. Because you have made it clear you do care about it. Just don't want to acknowledge that it is, what it is. Batman, a fantasy for children at heart. Young and old.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Dude. You are posting on a superhero forum in threads about a superhero named BATMAN. You are taking a guy dressed up like a bat who is about to fight a dude in a trash bag named THE RIDDLER and acting like are witnessing some neorealism movement. You already lost the battle on not caring about watching childish entertainment. Because you have made it clear you do care about it. Just don't want to acknowledge that it is, what it is. Batman, a fantasy for children at heart. Young and old.

Batman is definitely not a fantasy for children. I have no idea how you’ve come to that conclusion. It’s had it’s fair share of blood, gore, sex, extreme acts of violence, adult language and gratuitous nudity in it’s 80+ year history. Batman’s ding-a-ling was even revealed. There are even people in real life that have dressed up in outfits. Vigilantes and criminals. So this “you’re watching childish entertainment” quip you’re making doesn’t hold water for me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Batman is definitely not a fantasy for children. I have no idea how you’ve come to that conclusion. It’s had it’s fair share of blood, gore, sex, extreme acts of violence, adult language and gratuitous nudity in it’s 80+ year history. Batman’s ding-a-ling was even revealed. There are even people in real life that have dressed up in outfits. Vigilantes and criminals. So this “you’re watching childish entertainment” quip you’re making doesn’t hold water for me.

You want to know how I came to the idea that Batman is a fantasy for children. Well okay....

I could do this all day, but I'll leave it there. Batman was born a fantasy for children, no different then Superman and Lone Ranger. It's why I as a wittle child stood in line for 3 hours to watch Batman Returns in theater. My first movie in the theater by the way. DC/WB still know that's the case. Want to know how I know?

 

[shauner111]

@OnLeatherWings
I was gonna defend my point and say that I didn't mean it like that and blah blah. But I just don't care right now. I am who i am. I think Harry Potter and Star Wars is for kids. You don't have to agree. If you like it fine, I don't. Ain't trying to prove how adult I am. It's what I am lol I don't sit here watching cartoons unless it's something I have nostalgia for from when I was a kid like A Goofy Movie or B:TAS. Watching a new animated movie now? It'll never happen. Seems silly to me. It's for my nieces and nephews, I'm passed it. Poke fun at me all you want, I like adult stories. Crime movies. Horror movies. Drama. That's me, that's my cup of tea.

People were talking about being afraid that Batman might be perceived as childish entertainment. I'm not concerned or afraid of that. I just don't really want to see it. Maybe when I was 7 Batman Forever appealed to me. If a new movie came out with that tone I'd probably think it was too childish yes. But I'm sure it would make a lot of kids happy. Lots of adults too but my taste is different. Sorry but not sorry.

The supernatural can be done while remaining mostly serious. Of course. But my take is this: maybe a filmmaker can come in and improve on the fantastical side of the source material. Because I don't think the supernatural **** is that great to begin with. I'd make Clayface and Mad Monk way more interesting and horrifying, whether they're grounded versions of them or quite supernatural. DMT experiences could be cool on screen but I'd create s new character/vision instead of goofy ass Bat-Mite. Or I'd create a ghostly character for the movies. Phantasm could be great.

I wish a director or comic writer would create some better supernatural characters to exist in Gotham City. Then I'd get behind it. A half man half Crocodile doesn't cut it for me. Or a man flying around with giant bat wings. Bat-MAN and MAN-Bat...GET IT!? It's reversed! Lol it's terrible.

Hardy's Bane was fantastic. He was Talia's General. Smart as a whip. Manipulative. Strong AF. Focused. It was still Bane to me and I'm glad they stripped him down like that. I'd do the same for a new Bane just keep him latino, change the mask to keep it fresh (not because Hardy's sucked, that mask was phenomenal). Maybe he takes roids but keep that realistic. His drive and intellect is what I like about Bane in the comics. Can care less about Venom Tubes.

Dude. You are posting on a superhero forum in threads about a superhero named BATMAN. You are taking a guy dressed up like a bat who is about to fight a dude in a trash bag named THE RIDDLER and acting like are witnessing some neorealism movement. You already lost the battle on not caring about watching childish entertainment. Because you have made it clear you do care about it. Just don't want to acknowledge that it is, what it is. Batman, a fantasy for children at heart. Young and old.

I disagree.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Batman is definitely not a fantasy for children. I have no idea how you’ve come to that conclusion. It’s had it’s fair share of blood, gore, sex, extreme acts of violence, adult language and gratuitous nudity in it’s 80+ year history. Batman’s ding-a-ling was even revealed. There are even people in real life that have dressed up in outfits. Vigilantes and criminals. So this “you’re watching childish entertainment” quip you’re making doesn’t hold water for me.

Let's not pretend plenty of people don't think Batman - no matter how much gore, blood, sex and violence is in it - is silly and childish.

Also, Batman has existed in more adult themes/styles and more childish styles.

Batman's visuals and style will always appeal to kids more first and foremost. It's how most of us became fans.

Batman's been childish, silly, mature, dark and everything in between.

In the end, Batman flourished first as something for young readers, especially for his first 40 years.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I disagree.

Without merit. Because we are still talking about the funny book character, who dresses up like a Bat and they make action figures out of. Just like Star Wars, just like the MCU.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Harry Potter and Star Wars is for kids yet man in bat costume punching a clown isn't?

Both can go either way. How is that hard to understand?

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

You want to know how I came to the idea that Batman is a fantasy for children. Well okay....

That’s the best bodysuit for Batman we’ve ever seen. I love it so much. Add the ears to the logo and tweak the cowl a bit and the suit is perfect.

 

[shauner111]

Without merit. Because we are still talking about the funny book character, who dresses up like a Bat and they make action figures out of. Just like Star Wars, just like the MCU.

And I prefer Batman to be darker and more mature.

 

[shauner111]

Harry Potter and Star Wars is for kids yet man in bat costume punching a clown isn't?

Both can go either way. How is that hard to understand?

I said what I said.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And I prefer Batman to be darker and more mature.

You're avoiding the point.

You can like Batman anyway you like. That doesn't change who/what Batman is. A superhero, a kid's fantasy. And you claim that isn't what you like, while continuing to discuss that very kind of entertainment. To do so, you have to completely ignore the very topic you are trying to talk about. A dude dressed up like a Bat, fighting crime, with his fantasy outfit and equipment. This is why the argument over realism has no actual legs.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I said what I said.

And people are responding. Because this is a discussion board. Where people are allowed to respond.

 

[AndyTrevino]

The vast majority of the GA still see Batman as this hokey adventure tale, I'm sure.

Karens (hate using such an overused term but still) still see Batman as the cartoonish Schumacher version and I'm not sure anyone can tell me different.

 

[BMW 224]

You're avoiding the point.

You can like Batman anyway you like. That doesn't change who/what Batman is. A superhero, a kid's fantasy. And you claim that isn't what you like, while continuing to discuss that very kind of entertainment. To do so, you have to completely ignore the very topic you are trying to talk about. A dude dressed up like a Bat, fighting crime, with his fantasy outfit and equipment. This is why the argument over realism has no actual legs.

Batman isn't real.

Which means he can be realistic or fantasy.

Why are you so bothered that The Batman is going for realism when it's for kids.

Think of the children man the children !

 

[Mindreaper21]

You want to know how I came to the idea that Batman is a fantasy for children. Well okay....

I could do this all day, but I'll leave it there. Batman was born a fantasy for children, no different then Superman and Lone Ranger. It's why I as a wittle child stood in line for 3 hours to watch Batman Returns in theater. My first movie in the theater by the way. DC/WB still know that's the case. Want to know how I know?