Arrow Arrow #3.21: “Al Sah-him

[Human Torch]

Having just watched it a second time,a few things that seem to have gone unmentioned...

Felicity refusing to be searched......kind of a rookie mistake.If we claim Ollie isn't thinking clearly,it's still no excuse for Maseo.

So Ra's left his wife and kids to protect them (without saying a word) and then went back and wiped out the whole village to take the throne?

 

[Mike Murdock]

The second one got mentioned before. I agree that's either an inconsistency or at least serious hypocrisy (and shows that sacrificing yourself to join the League is ultimate futile).

Regarding the first, I think Maseo deferred to Oliver as the heir to the demon. Ollie screwed up because either he's faking his allegiance or his conditioning isn't absolute.

 

[zenith16]

But it's a fight against Ra's al Ghul, no one's gonna survive that, unless they run away, which I'm guessing would also result in death.

you kow after I said I'm not sue if we know if that was a training session that could have been a group of assassin that wanted out of the league for all we know & the only way out was to fight of some sort & he took them all out this world cause that the rule with weird challenge system.

They were were gonna die regardless unless they pick up some serious skills while they were there before that & were able to keep up.

Like i said he was weeding out the weak he's still a messed up villain in the end. Even if they show him in the to show mercy like they did with Maseo he still do some messed up eventually. After all he destroy's citys with people that didn't do anything yet has them g o up in smoke or die with the people causing the trouble in the city ith first place.

Ras doesn't live in or have to deal with yet he does that. look at most incarnation's of him keep saying he's doing it cause of the criminal's there. Yet he takes the victim's along with those he's punishing(it's messed up & it's why DC has him listed as terrorist in his profiles as a occupation ) or with this show to make Oliver throw away his past & become his successor even though it's counter to why Oliver joined in the first prior to this supposed brain washing.

if he weeds out the weak in this manner, when they fail in any task he gives there where should leave "nanda par bat" if it was any other place you fail your trai you leave & you may retur to try out aai if your able like the Navy seal's or some other places. with him you fail your life's takeaway from you.

but like I said it's possible what we saw wasn't training at all . it was a group fighting for their lives to kill him, yeah but training ??.... it might not have been that now that I think about it. unless he say's the was a great exercise or training session some how.

 

[Seb]

you kow after I said I'm not sue if we know if that was a training session that could have been a group of assassin that wanted out of the league for all we know & the only way out was to fight of some sort & he took them all out this world cause that the rule with weird challenge system.

They were were gonna die regardless unless they pick up some serious skills while they were there before that & were able to keep up.

Like i said he was weeding out the weak he's still a messed up villain in the end. Even if they show him in the to show mercy like they did with Maseo he still do some messed up eventually. After all he destroy's citys with people that didn't do anything yet has them g o up in smoke or die with the people causing the trouble in the city ith first place.

Ras doesn't live in or have to deal with yet he does that. look at most incarnation's of him keep saying he's doing it cause of the criminal's there. Yet he takes the victim's along with those he's punishing(it's messed up & it's why DC has him listed as terrorist in his profiles as a occupation ) or with this show to make Oliver throw away his past & become his successor even though it's counter to why Oliver joined in the first prior to this supposed brain washing.

if he weeds out the weak in this manner, when they fail in any task he gives there where should leave "nanda par bat" if it was any other place you fail your trai you leave & you may retur to try out aai if your able like the Navy seal's or some other places. with him you fail your life's takeaway from you.

but like I said it's possible what we saw wasn't training at all . it was a group fighting for their lives to kill him, yeah but training ??.... it might not have been that now that I think about it. unless he say's the was a great exercise or training session some how.

I dunno, I guess that it's just that after Slade's Mirakuru crazy, I really wanted a villain that made sense, and did things with a purpose behind them rather than just doing stuff "because he's a villain/terrorist/whatever". Ra's in the comics is a megalomaniacal eco-terrorist who wants to save the world but also wants to rule it. He makes horrible decisions, but you can at least usually see where he's coming from and where he's going to. Hells, even Slade, if you give him the stupid motivation of revenge for Shado's death, did have a relatively comprehensible plan of 'take everything from Oliver, then kill him'. Everything he did was focused towards his goal, and his individual plans mostly made sense, even if the goal itself was crazy dumb.

At its core, things like this tend to get hashed out on the internet because we want to discuss the show and its characters like one would real life people, but then they aren't written like real people, we end up having to analyse the writers intentions, rather than simply the characters, since anyone real acting this way would be certifiably insane with multiple forms of personality disorders. I think that if fans have to spend a lot of time rationalising why a character made a weird decision, the writing is at fault, and that makes it hard to have deeper conversations about what's going on in universe.

 

[zenith16]

I dunno, I guess that it's just that after Slade's Mirakuru crazy, I really wanted a villain that made sense, and did things with a purpose behind them rather than just doing stuff "because he's a villain/terrorist/whatever". Ra's in the comics is a megalomaniacal eco-terrorist who wants to save the world but also wants to rule it. He makes horrible decisions, but you can at least usually see where he's coming from and where he's going to. Hells, even Slade, if you give him the stupid motivation of revenge for Shado's death, did have a relatively comprehensible plan of 'take everything from Oliver, then kill him'. Everything he did was focused towards his goal, and his individual plans mostly made sense, even if the goal itself was crazy dumb.

At its core, things like this tend to get hashed out on the internet because we want to discuss the show and its characters like one would real life people, but then they aren't written like real people, we end up having to analyse the writers intentions, rather than simply the characters, since anyone real acting this way would be certifiably insane with multiple forms of personality disorders. I think that if fans have to spend a lot of time rationalising why a character made a weird decision, the writing is at fault, and that makes it hard to have deeper conversations about what's going on in universe.

yeah if this was more of a physiological show where if the writers intention we're looking into if the characters had multiple personality disorder or a syndrum of some sort affecting all the characters or certain main ones, then yeah it would be a different story with us looking into it all .

But that's not always the case with this show. It's just some of the writer's(plural since it's a team here) intentions didn't always translate too well or as we know they started to put all their efforts & focuses into certain plots & just didn't have the time to flesh out the rest or couldn't be bother to, cause they were little more obsessed with a certain plot then the others.

 

[Sterling Archer]

So Ra's left his wife and kids to protect them (without saying a word) and then went back and wiped out the whole village to take the throne?

Wow I didn't even notice that. That's super dumb.

 

[zenith16]

Wow I didn't even notice that. That's super dumb.

yeah this is where his comic counter part differs from Arrow's cause his wife was killed by a prince who ordered Ras to find the pits in the first place. and was the first to take the Lazarus pits waters to be save by it and did so in his rage /madness mod (what I call the Rabies mode )

The prince was too physically strong to take/ hold down befor it happened cause the pit gives you enhanced strength & agility as one of it's benifit / side effects
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Ra%27s_al_Ghul_%28New_Earth%29

NOW what I find weird after that event when Ras lost his first wife due to this event with the prince that made him find the pit in the first place. why the hell did he take it him self?

I guess he just stopped thinking clearly after losing her.

I would have wanted it destroyed . or maybe had the same reaction as batman/ bruce when saw what it does do that the first time around when killed his own people in front of batman when he used it.


oh speaking of which I was one of those that was bothered by thea's side being dropped so fast apparently the writers said they will pick that up next season cause you know them with their priority's Here's the link : http://tvline.com/2015/04/22/arrow-season-3-spoilers-evil-oliver-felicity-relationship/

 

[Bats1690]

Having just watched it a second time,a few things that seem to have gone unmentioned...

Felicity refusing to be searched......kind of a rookie mistake.If we claim Ollie isn't thinking clearly,it's still no excuse for Maseo.

So Ra's left his wife and kids to protect them (without saying a word) and then went back and wiped out the whole village to take the throne?

He didn't have much of a choice. When he left them without saying a word he was simply being conscripted into the League. He hadn't been chosen as Heir to the Demon yet. Once he was chosen as Heir it was something he had to carry out.

If he didn't then his predecessor surely would've killed his family anyway.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, I think the point of the scene is to show the effect of the League's brainwashing. I don't think it's an inconsistency.

 

[Naked Shia]

more like daredevil ripping off Arrow Malcolm plan for the Glades/Hell Kitchen by getting rid of it and all that

What you're pointing is a common trope. IT's just a mcguffin when you think about it.

On the other hand, Oliver joining the league to be the new Ra's Al Ghul is taken straight out of the pages of Daredevil, it's the end of Brubaker's run, and the story of Diggle's run leading to shadowland.

 

[The_Manhunter]

While wearing Ray's now perflectly functioning ATOM suit and wielding the Infinity Gauntlet?

That will be so cool!

 

[The_Manhunter]

You could say that about Gotham and Metropolis too. A couple of street thugs in one of the Arkham video games were having a discussion, one said he wanted to move to Metropolis to get away from the dump that is Gotham, and the others says something like "Why would you wanna go there? Something blows up there about once a week."

The thugs in those games are usually pretty hilarious lol

 

[Snow Queen]

I have to say, I didn't notice this but seeing it pointed out made me laugh.

 

[mr. peasant]

I have to say, I didn't notice this but seeing it pointed out made me laugh.

Proof that the effects of the particle accelerator extends beyond Central City.

 

[Bathead]

The thugs in those games are usually pretty hilarious lol

indeed. Quite often, when bopping about the roofs in Gotham, I would stop for a minute and listen to them. Quite entertaining.

 

[haephestus]

While wearing Ray's now perflectly functioning ATOM suit and wielding the Infinity Gauntlet?

That will be so cool!

I was *this* close to being right!