Arrow Arrow Season 2: Episode 2 "Identity" Discussion Thread

[Hunter Rider]

I thought we might as well get this thread rolling.

[YT]PrfLZH-KGj4[/YT]

Looks like some cool action and some expansion on China White beyond the monosyllabic assassin she's been so far.

 

[Nathan]

Wow, Episode 2 is already going to be that action filled? Nice.

 

[DrRocket]

China White: feeling unsatisfied?
Me: yes, satisfy me!

Anyway, dig brings the humor as usual. This is the episode where Roy meets the Hood ( read it somewhere ), and Oliver has a show down between China white and bronze tiger, this gonna be good.

 

[regnak]

I get that Oliver doesn't want to kill people now but I think wounding Bronze Tiger and China White with arrows to the leg or shoulder would be in order. They are certainly trying to slice him into ribbons.

 

[Loki882]

Is that China White lying on the bed with her shirt open? What the heck is that about?

 

[Nathan]

Glorious fan service.

 

[Loki882]

Bronze Tiger is going to get LUCKY.

 

[DrRocket]

I hope Ollie tries to actually kill them, if he is not going to kill the thugs he should atleast kill the bosses.

 

[Nathan]

That would still dishonor Tommy's death.

 

[Hunter Rider]

At some point though Ollie is going to have to realize that Tommy was wrong and that eventually Tommy would have came to understand.

 

[DrRocket]

At some point though Ollie is going to have to realize that Tommy was wrong and that eventually Tommy would have came to understand.

Exactly, just because suerheroes kill, doesn't make them not superheroes. If Ollie stops killing people entirely, it will eventually be like Batman, where the villains escape and kill a few more dozen people, before he is imprisoned again and it goes on.

 

[Loki882]

Whether Tommy is "wrong" is subjective. I think that he was, but a lot of others don't. There's a huge debate/controversy over Superman killing Zod in MOS, and Zod was a genocidal superpowered madman who had already killed thousands and was trying to exterminate humanity. None of the people that Oliver kills have done anything close to that.

 

[DrRocket]

Whether Tommy is "wrong" is subjective. I think that he was, but a lot of others don't. There's a huge debate/controversy over Superman killing Zod in MOS, and Zod was a genocidal superpowered madman who had already killed thousands and was trying to exterminate humanity. None of the people that Oliver kills have done anything close to that.

Kind of a big difference between Superman and Green arrow, superman in comics has rarely ever killed anyone, and is way more popular than Arrow, GA has killed loads of people in his comics and since he is less popular, people tend not to care so much when GA kills. The majority of people I've seen on different forums think that him being a serial killer is a great part of the show ( me included ). While I understand some people want him to have a zero kill policy, I think that is just silly, it's a necessary evil.

 

[Loki882]

Actually, GA's views on killing have been "contradictory" over the years. And Zod was a MUCH bigger threat than anything that GA faces. I am very much on the side of "heroes should avoid killing if at all possible, but sometimes it is necessary and the moral thing to do." The one exception that I have is Batman for various reasons. I'm part of the "Batman doesn't kill" crowd.

 

[Nathan]

For me, it depends on the situation. I prefer Ollie not to kill, as long as there is another way. If there is no other solution, fine, put an Arrow through their hearts.

 

[DrRocket]

Actually, GA's views on killing have been "contradictory" over the years. And Zod was a MUCH bigger threat than anything that GA faces. I am very much on the side of "heroes should avoid killing if at all possible, but sometimes it is necessary and the moral thing to do." The one exception that I have is Batman for various reasons. I'm part of the "Batman doesn't kill" crowd.

Look I'm fine with GA not killing everyone ( like the "hoods" ) but when it's comes to people like Meryln, china white, Deadshot and the bosses of gangs and what not, then I want him to put an arrow through them, I don't want to have this "batman doesn't kill. EVER" rule for GA. I want him to drop some people dead and not think twice about it.

 

[Nathan]

Then he really is nothing but a killer. If it's in order to safe someone, or self-defense, it's not an issue. But I don't want Ollie to selectively choose who it is ok to kill. "Oh, and just because I have run into you way too many times, eat an arrow *****.".

 

[Hunter Rider]

At some point the supposed moral code becomes nothing but an excuse to allow the people you are supposed to be protecting to continue to die or suffer.

 

[Nathan]

I don't want him to be Batman. But I don't want him to be Punisher either.

 

[Hunter Rider]

This debate is why Under the Red Hood is one of my favourtie Batman stories.

 

[DrRocket]

At some point the supposed moral code becomes nothing but an excuse to allow the people you are supposed to be protecting to continue to die or suffer.

This guy gets it.

What Nathan said about not being batman but not being the punisher: somewhere in between would do nicely.

 

[Loki882]

I think it works for Batman specifically because of his origins. However, while I think that Batman personally shouldn't kill, I don't like how writers sometimes have him force that onto others. For instance, he would actively PREVENT the Huntress from killing Joker. That's going too far. Actually, I liked DCAU Batman's views of this. He didn't kill, but he was ok with Superman killing President Luthor because he felt that "it had to be done." He suggested that Terry should kill Superman after he went rogue if he couldn't be stopped any other way. That's the right idea imo.

 

[DrRocket]

I think it works for Batman specifically because of his origins. However, while I think that Batman personally shouldn't kill, I don't like how writers sometimes have him force that onto others. For instance, he would actively PREVENT the Huntress from killing Joker. That's going too far. Actually, I liked DCAU Batman's views of this. He didn't kill, but he was ok with Superman killing President Luthor because he felt that "it had to be done." He suggested that Terry should kill Superman after he went rogue if he couldn't be stopped any other way. That's the right idea imo.

While I'm no fan of batman, I kinda understand that he doesn't kill people but stopping others from doing it is bat-crazy.

 

[Herolee10]

I think it works for Batman specifically because of his origins. However, while I think that Batman personally shouldn't kill, I don't like how writers sometimes have him force that onto others. For instance, he would actively PREVENT the Huntress from killing Joker. That's going too far. Actually, I liked DCAU Batman's views of this. He didn't kill, but he was ok with Superman killing President Luthor because he felt that "it had to be done." He suggested that Terry should kill Superman after he went rogue if he couldn't be stopped any other way. That's the right idea imo.

When it comes to matters like that, I would think that at the end of the day, the real people that should be blamed for all of this is the law system within the comic book worlds, both in books and in animation portrayals.

I mean, I can't see why any government would want to waste resources in keeping dangerous people like the Joker alive after he, along with several high profile criminals manage to escape their imprisonment and cause more chaos, leading to the deaths of countless more innocent lives.

I mean people have been executed for smaller reasons, and yet the Joker and Lex Luthor are kept alive? And I really wouldn't buy into the whole plead for insanity part either because that'd be just ignorance from the court system within the comic book world as well.

Honestly, if we had a figure like the Joker within the real world that constantly caused the level of trouble that he does within the comic books and is still only punished by just being placed within a prison cell for every time that he's caught, there would be a huge outcry from the public that would demand for his execution already.

Heck, even in the "Injustice Gods" story line, while Superman is also in the wrong zone as well, he did make a good point that Batman should have taken cared of the Joker a long time ago so that he wouldn't have been able to be a problem for them in the present.

If they don't have the balls to execute them, then just place them within the Phantom Zone.

 

[Nathan]

If they don't have the balls to execute them, then just place them within the Phantom Zone.

Heh, even Batman on JLU had an issue with Superman and the rest of the League sending Doomsday into the Phantom Zone.