Arrow Arrow Season 2 Episode 7 "State v. Queen" Discussion Thread

[Infinity9999x]

Even if it wasn't his heart (e.g. if he has dextrocardia... unlikely), it would still at the very least puncture his lung; never mind the plethora of huge vessels that would cause someone to bleed out in minutes if nicked running through the chest.

Yeah...that was just poor placement by them. It would have made more sense if he had stabbed himself through his upper trap, much less chance of death and less debilitating than stabbing yourself through the chest.

 

[Savage]

I think that's precisely why people are saying Count Vertigo shouldn't come back. The notion that a separate, unrelated character who then goes by the same name as a previous character is really hokey.

I figured it would be a name that Green Arrow gives to him after pointing out the similarities. While the old Count Vertigo enjoyed and reveled in the name, a new one would detest it and consider it a way of making fun. He would consider such stage names beneath. I'm talking about a Count Vertigo in stark contrast to the previous one. I can see titles and passing the torch becoming a recurring theme on the show. Like there is always someone to take the place of the other. I don't consider that concept hokey at all.

 

[Boy Scout]

As always, it depends on the execution. I don't really find the idea appealing, though.

 

[mr. peasant]

I figured it would be a name that Green Arrow gives to him after pointing out the similarities. While the old Count Vertigo enjoyed and reveled in the name, a new one would detest it and consider it a way of making fun. He would consider such stage names beneath. I'm talking about a Count Vertigo in stark contrast to the previous one. I can see titles and passing the torch becoming a recurring theme on the show. Like there is always someone to take the place of the other. I don't consider that concept hokey at all.

The passing of the torch only really works when it's being done from the predecessor to the replacement with the two having spent time together. It only becomes hokey if the name transfer is being made by an unrelated third party.

 

[Rorschach2012]

It's weird they'd kill off Count Vertigo. In the comics, he's one of GA's most formidable villains. But the actor who played him was so over the top, I'm kinda glad he won't show up anymore.

 

[mr. peasant]

I never got the criticism about The Count's hamminess. Maybe it stems from my being okay with some campiness every so often. If all the villains were all uniformly serious and stoic, then they'd start feeling the same, boring and interchangeable. And personally, the things I hate the most in my fiction are boring, unintereseting, unimaginative characters (relative to one another).

At least The Count's presence changed things up whenever he showed as he's so different from the others.

 

[Nathan]

I don't mind some campiness. But the Count really took it to 11. And I think I wouldn't have minded it even less, if they wouldn't have taken the Count of Vlatava, and turned him into a bad Vampire/Joker mix. Maybe they should have made him an original character for the show.

 

[Human Torch]

The Count was pretty much the only Villain with a personality that we've seen so far.(Not counting Dark Archer)I mean,Bronze Tiger,China White even Deadshot,haven't exactly had memorable dialogue.The Count often let out a good line.(my favorite this episode was his saying Arrow by giving up killing was missing out on one of life's pleasures.) Seems like nobody can take a joke these days.

 

[DrRocket]

So what is your guys take on vampires? I ask because in that promo it looked like Cyrus was drinking blood and diggle was talking about vampires.

 

[mocomic]

Replacing Vertigo, easy

The real Count comes to town for revenge

The previous one usurped his name.
He was either a black sheep relative, ex employee , or insane imposter

The real count hears of the Arrows insults of his family name
Comes to America seeking revenge against the man who took his chance at satisfaction

Arrow writers have to watch, you can only have so many plot threads

 

[Demon Hunter]

And what about the fans who actually enjoyed this Count Vertigo?
We just forget about the previous Count because he was loony imposter that you happened not to like?

Yeah, I don't see that happening.

I agree with Human Torch. The Count might have not been the best villain of all time but at least he was a bit different than all the other villains with 2 lines of dialogue that Arrow has slain/defeated so far.

 

[Nathan]

And what about the fans who actually enjoyed this Count Vertigo?
We just forget about the previous Count because he was loony imposter that you happened not to like?

I say yes. Count Vertigo Fans should be treated like Laurel Fans.

 

[Savage]

lol But really, the guy is dead and I think bringing him back would be a mistake (Unless they find some way to incorporate his powers into it. That'd be pretty cool). I say The Count could easily be a title interchanged. If not with an actual Count then maybe to another drug dealer trying to take over the Vertigo scene.

Either way I think the should have A Count Vertigo. Seeing as he's one of GA's few villains I find it kind of silly to not have him on the show in some form or capacity. Though I don't think he really needs to come back this season.

 

[Boy Scout]

I never got the criticism about The Count's hamminess. Maybe it stems from my being okay with some campiness every so often. If all the villains were all uniformly serious and stoic, then they'd start feeling the same, boring and interchangeable. And personally, the things I hate the most in my fiction are boring, unintereseting, unimaginative characters (relative to one another).

For me, it wasn't the character, but the actor. I thought he was too OTT. I've got no issue with campy villains, but the actor portraying that villain still has to be good.

 

[Demon Hunter]

If you see him in another show, you'll realize that he IS good.

 

[Boy Scout]

Those other shows aren't Arrow and therefore don't matter in this context.

 

[charl_huntress]

WOW...just got around to watching this episode and Malcolm is alive. Holy smokers! I didn't expect that and the stunner....Thea is his daughter. WOW! This was a great episode.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Those other shows aren't Arrow and therefore don't matter in this context.

This. Anyone who thinks Gabel was good on Arrow is kidding themselves. He was cheesy and campy. and not the good kind either. It was just bad.

i can deal with some cheesy camp, but Gabel took it much too far

 

[DrRocket]

^ opinions, we all have them. The count was awesome in my book.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yeah. I really, really, liked the Count in this. I found his dialogue to be well written and funny. I'm not going to say he's the Joker or anything, but he was a good villain that was in that type of mold. A villain who is manical, enjoys his work, and can be funny even in the most tense of moments.

The Count's line, "Quiet, I'm threatening!", when Felicity was trying to tell Ollie to not take the shot, was a great line. I thought he was good too, right after Arrow exploded the canisters and escaped. I thought it was funny, in a weirdly messed up way. Not every villain can pull that off, not even on paper. The Joker has always been one of those characters that can make me laugh in some morbid, black comedy, sort of way. I didn't find it cheesy, either.

I did, however, find Bronze Tiger (from the "Identity" episode) to be waaaaay more cheesy. I thought he was a misstep. I thought the opening of season 2, with Ollie being back on the island was cheesy. Not in a good way, either. But, I didn't find the Count to be cheesy in this episode. I think he was in season one, but he was much improved here.

I was sad to see him go, honestly. He was really entertaining.

Also, on a sidenote, I really like Ollie's reaction to the verdict. I thought it was pitch perfect the way they handled his reaction.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The Count was pretty much the only Villain with a personality that we've seen so far.(Not counting Dark Archer)I mean,Bronze Tiger,China White even Deadshot,haven't exactly had memorable dialogue.The Count often let out a good line.(my favorite this episode was his saying Arrow by giving up killing was missing out on one of life's pleasures.) Seems like nobody can take a joke these days.

I may need to look at a roster list, but I think you're right.

Merlyn (Dark Archer), Al Owal, the Dollmaker, and the Count (if we're going with present day enemies) have probably been my favorites. Unless I'm forgetting some, all of his other enemies seem to have about as much personality as a rock. I don't like Deadshot in this. Just...no.