Arrow Arrow Season 5 Episode 11: "Second Chances"

[Jedi Arrow]

Okay, yeah, Tina's a big deal but why has nobody talked about [BLACKOUT]the fact that Talia al Ghul trained Yao Fei?[/BLACKOUT].

 

[Spider-Fan83]

Lol Tina Bolland is Dinah Drake. Next up Roy Harper is Jason Todd, Adrian Chase is Harvey Dent, Diggle is Alfred Pennyworth and ofcourse Ollie is Bruce Wayne. The level of preposterness from this show is truly mindboggling.

I didn't mind the use of the name (kinda expected they would going into the episode) but didn't care for the way they revealed it

earlier in the episode they found her profile, an even called the police caption about her, how did they not know her real name (how deep under cover was she? that they'd completely change all records of her)

if anything it should have been the how way around Tina Bolland should have been her real name, and since she's probably believed to be dead she should have said she'll start going by her uncover name Dinah Drake

but other then that I actually rather liked her, and the episode over all

 

[Hotwire]

I'm not a fan of retconing Tahlia into this. So, Oliver forgot he'd met Ras' other daughter when he was going through all of that League of Assassins story arc?

 

[Hotwire]

Lol Tina Bolland is Dinah Drake. Next up Roy Harper is Jason Todd, Adrian Chase is Harvey Dent, Diggle is Alfred Pennyworth and ofcourse Ollie is Bruce Wayne. The level of preposterness from this show is truly mindboggling.

I've said for a long time now that Arrow is the closest thing to a Batman TV show we're getting. They've been using Batman's rogues gallery from day 1.

 

[famicommander]

I'm not a fan of retconing Tahlia into this. So, Oliver forgot he'd met Ras' other daughter when he was going through all of that League of Assassins story arc?

Thus far I don't think he's been told her name in the flashback sequences. Perhaps he simply didn't know she was an Al-Ghul.

 

[rashad]

The action this season is definitely some of the best action since Season 2 imo.

 

[Dugath]

Thus far I don't think he's been told her name in the flashback sequences. Perhaps he simply didn't know she was an Al-Ghul.

Pretty sure she told him her first name, just not her last name. Still he would not know her relationship to Ras and probably sets up some sort of future episodes. Oh BTW you killed my Papa.

 

[metaphysician]

I still kind of think at some point in the writing, Talia was subbed in for Lady Shiva. No idea why, though.

 

[Web-Head]

I liked this episode, minus the Felicity fangirl thing.

I wish they would've kept Laurel, of course, but I'm cool with the new Canary (it's better than nothing) and I hope her and Oliver do get romantically involved.

At least it'd keep Olicity away

 

[Nathan]

Alright, I like her. Wonder what her costume will look like. I hope they don't just give her Buckle's old costume. Now if they could only introduce a new Huntress as well.

 

[Loki882]

The name thing, was really really contrived, and groan-inducing. And given how poorly they've handled their female characters in the past (and present actually), I'm not exactly optimistic about this new one.

 

[Slade W]

The name thing, was really really contrived, and groan-inducing. And given how poorly they've handled their female characters in the past (and present actually), I'm not exactly optimistic about this new one.

In the long-term, yes, I wouldn't be surprised if they struggle with her, as this has happened with characters in the past and is happening now (and it isn't even just female characters that they struggle with in this regard, although they do struggle more with them than male characters). They are capable of doing a good job in the short-term to medium-term (half a season-two seasons) with lots of characters, be it male or female, but once they join the team, they do not know what to do with characters anymore. Laurel, Thea and Roy are good examples of this, and while they still have their moments, I do not think that Diggle and Felicity have been used as well as they were in the first two seasons. Diggle is still kept around to give advice and guidance, which he does stellar job at, be it with Oliver or others, like Rene this season, but when he isn't doing that, they struggle to find interesting things for him to do.

I do expect Dinah to have a strong half-season, and maybe a good season six if they keep her, but after that, based on what we have seen in the past, I expect them to struggle with her, and for her to remain in the background like Thea, Roy and Laurel did. That is unless she really takes off with fans like Sara or Felicity did, then maybe she will be given more things to do, even if the quality and creativity of what they give her to do drops.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I'm surprised they killed the badguy this episode. It seemed they were trying to say "what if Arrow was more comic book-like?" with a meta Black Canary and a meta Count Vertigo. Then they killed the Vertigo type guy. Seems a waste.

 

[Primal Slayer]

They are totally going to keep DD around and she will become Black Canary, why they insist on playing the "will she, wont she game" is beyond me.

I think they know they can't screw up this time so they are going to be putting in A LOT of effort to make DD into the next big thing.

The fact that Thea has been pushed so far into the background, she cant even appear for a phone call is very sad and such a waste. If I didnt know any better they were either killing her off at the end of the season or having her leave the show.

 

[Gee]

Now if they could only introduce a new Huntress as well.

So, Helena Wayne?

 

[Osiris-Rex]

So, Helena Wayne?

So not Helena Bertinelli?

 

[Mike Murdock]

They are totally going to keep DD around and she will become Black Canary, why they insist on playing the "will she, wont she game" is beyond me.

It took me over a year to figure out DD meant Damien Darhk and not Daredevil. If you make Dinah Drake the same thing, it's going to be even more confusing.

I think the will she won't she thing was just for the episode, not an ongoing thing. By the end, it's clear that she'll take the job.

 

[Primal Slayer]

It took me over a year to figure out DD meant Damien Darhk and not Daredevil. If you make Dinah Drake the same thing, it's going to be even more confusing.

I think the will she won't she thing was just for the episode, not an ongoing thing. By the end, it's clear that she'll take the job.

lol well thats what ill be calling her going forward if I do talk about her.

 

[Deltron3030]

Thus far I don't think he's been told her name in the flashback sequences. Perhaps he simply didn't know she was an Al-Ghul.

Ras made a comment of knowing of Ollie - this could be related to Tahilia training him.

 

[Loki882]

That could just also relate to Malcolm and/or Sara.

 

[Grommers]

Fans complain they kill off laurel lance saying Ollie's destined to be with the black canary.

They provide an alternative.

I'm happy.

If they keep her badass and look too keep their love at a peak emotional level and not a romance ala Olicity, I'd be happy.

mind you, I was a fan of Olicity just not it being the focal part of the show.


And Talia's last name hasn't been said, I imagine they'll keep it that way - and that she has trained Prometheus too take out oliver for killing her father.

Thereby looping the past with the present, and making the Talia truly big bad of the season.

 

[Kar]

Watching this episode now. This is way too convenient that it's cringe worthy. There just so happens to be a girl with screeching powers when they need one?
I really hate how they've been crapping on Black Canary since Sarah's death.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I'm only now catching up on the second half of the season and this episode reminded me why the show isn't as crappy anymore -- It has a stronger supporting cast. Wild Dog, the DA, the Bratva, Carly Pope's reporter lady, this new Dinah -- These actors all have much better screen presences than Laurel, Thea, and Roy, and the characters all have stronger tonal direction.

The new recruits were really cheesy at the start, but Artemis is gone now (the cheesiest of the bunch), and I'm coming around on Ezra Hardy's Ragman (out of costume that is. He was always cool in costume) and Mr. Terrific, now that he's not in costume as much. The rapport between these characters is also much more enjoyable. They feel more real.

The only problem left is Felicity...Why oh why couldn't they just have killed her off (years ago) and used Terrific as her replacement...

Anyways, I also think this episode might have had the greatest action shot of the series (which has always had really weak action imo) in the flashbacks where Ollie pulls off some John Wick-esque moves. This was the first time Mark Bunting has directed an episode. Maybe that's why. This season in general actually has had a lot fewer cheesy Putty Patrol fights where dozens of guys are spinning around accomplishing nothing at all. They're now making fights smaller and actually kinda pulling them off.