Arrow Arrow Season 5 Episode 16: "Checkmate"

He reminds me of Bale too, and the actor for Brother Blood as well, Kevin Alejandro (who also reminded me of Bale).

isnt it? its like Bale had a baby brother we all didnt know about :woot:

That was a very good episode. Talia and Chase (or Morrison, it seems) were great. I didn't like the scenes with Chases wife, as I thought the acting from the actress was poor. Even though he killed her, I didn't like how Chase did seem to care about her. I liked the idea more of him simply being married to her because less people would suspect a settled family man of doing the things that Prometheus has been doing.

thats probably still true, but maybe he grew to care for her as it went on, something like a pet. because of that Bateman vibe i knew he was gonna off her without blinking, and maybe thats the crux of the character conflict between Prometheus and Green Arrow-- he's absolute in getting rid of his weaknesses (even if thats a human life) but Oliver wont. that convo between Diggle and him in the cave highlights that virtue that later contrasts the scene between Adrian and his wife.
 
thats probably still true, but maybe he grew to care for her as it went on, something like a pet. because of that Bateman vibe i knew he was gonna off her without blinking, and maybe thats the crux of the character conflict between Prometheus and Green Arrow-- he's absolute in getting rid of his weaknesses (even if thats a human life) but Oliver wont. that convo between Diggle and him in the cave highlights that virtue that later contrasts the scene between Adrian and his wife.

Agreed. I guess they simply wanted to make that comparison between the two characters more obvious, and perhaps more potent, by having him care for her like how Oliver cares for people (with him even getting angry at Oliver for making him have to kill her), but it still wasn't anything even close to being enough to stop him disposing of her in a ruthless fashion, once she became a hindrance to him and his goals. In ways, it does have its benefits over him not loving her at all.
 
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Man, Talia and Prometheus/Adrian were well cast. In her brief appearances this episode, Talia projected more menace and command than Ra's did in an entire season. And good lord, Adrian is nailing that Slade/Ravager-style supreme confidence and barely-contained hostility
 
I don't see anyone talking about this, but there are two Chases at play here, right? In other words, twins.

At the end of the ep, there's a Chase at the police precinct and with captured Oliver. I know time could have passed in between, but it didn't feel like it.
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I gotta say, at first I was a bit underwhelmed by the reveal of Chase, but the absolute smug brutality of Chase now that he has been outed has completely changed my opinion.
 
I don't see anyone talking about this, but there are two Chases at play here, right? In other words, twins.

At the end of the ep, there's a Chase at the police precinct and with captured Oliver. I know time could have passed in between, but it didn't feel like it.


There's no way he could be at both places at once. I assume both event occurred at the same time. So that gave me the impression that there are indeed two Chases.
 
Until I actually see the episode, I'm going to assume "time passed" is more accurate than there being two Chases–but it's possible, I guess. Like most are assuming that Vigilante may be Chase's (twin) brother. But that's not what it sounds like is going on here. Time passing between the events seems more likely.
 
It was nice seeing the T-spheres working like they should.

I was actually surprised by the Talia twist since I thought we wouldn't see her in the present this season.

It was interesting to see Oliver and Felicity positions change when it comes to secrets, but he was much more calmer.
 
Ok ok ok, so let me get this straight. Prometheus is Bane? Talk about a ripoff storyline.
 
There's no way he could be at both places at once. I assume both event occurred at the same time. So that gave me the impression that there are indeed two Chases.

Maybe they are the crimson twins from cobra (gi joe).

In all seriousness, it would be awesome if they were twins. One with fighting skillls and the other who is in the majors office.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but talia mentioned training chase because Ollie killled her father. By this logic she was only training him for 2 years. The show has us thinking its been 5 years. Talia has no reason to train him 5 years ago. Is this just a mi or plot hole or would talia just train him just because? I assume anyone can't just walk in and ask to be trained.
 
This episode did a good job of elaborating on Prometheus as a character and escalating his rivalry with Oliver. I liked almost all of the scenes that Stephen Amell and Josh Segarra shared together.

I didn't like the flashbacks much because they've become pretty boring, unnecessary, and barely relevant, which seems to be a pattern for the last few seasons of the show.

I thought that Talia was very hypocritical for hating Oliver for killing Ra's. Yes, Oliver killed her father. What did she expect? She was the one who taught him to be ruthless and to feel no qualms about killing his enemies for the greater good. She was the one who kept telling him that he had to be willing to be merciless towards his enemies in order to uphold the greater good and fulfill his father's dying wishes.

So why should she be surprised that Oliver learned the lessons she taught him so thoroughly? Ra's was trying to infect all of Starling City with a biological weapon, and so Oliver killed him to end the threat. Talia doesn't have the credibility to complain about Oliver's actions since she's the one who helped to teach him to act this way. If anything, she should partially blame herself for her father's death because: 1) She taught her father's killer to be ruthless enough to do what he did; and 2) She parted ways with her father and apparently stayed far away from him for years, when she could have stayed by his side and used her daughterly influence to try to dissuade him from committing acts such as the attempted biological attack on Starling City. The death of Ra's isn't completely Talia's fault, of course, but given the circumstances, it would make a lot more sense to take a little responsibility herself rather than selfishly lay all of the blame on Oliver.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but talia mentioned training chase because Ollie killled her father. By this logic she was only training him for 2 years. The show has us thinking its been 5 years. Talia has no reason to train him 5 years ago. Is this just a mi or plot hole or would talia just train him just because? I assume anyone can't just walk in and ask to be trained.

They explicitly said that Chase came to her two years ago.
 
Ok ok ok, so let me get this straight. Prometheus is Bane? Talk about a ripoff storyline.

But Promethus has a personal reason to hate Oliver, whereas Bane didn't. Also, he isn't doing this for Talia.
 
Anyone else feel like Josh Segarra looks like a poor-man's Christian Bale? Actually makes this rivalry interesting.
 
I don't see the Bale comparisons.

It feels like we've missed an episode somewhere. Talia seems to suddenly be in the present but what happened to her in the past?

Also, how come Oliver still wasn't in denial of his Green Arrow identity when Susan was rescued? He should have still tried to say it was someone else.
 
They explicitly said that Chase came to her two years ago.

Ahh I see. I missed that. So what that said, he shouldn't be this super kick ass villain the. With just 2 years of training. Meaning, Ollie should be able to wipe the floor with him considering he best Ras along with others.
 
Ahh I see. I missed that. So what that said, he shouldn't be this super kick ass villain the. With just 2 years of training. Meaning, Ollie should be able to wipe the floor with him considering he best Ras along with others.

We don't know that he only trained under Talia.
 
Ahh I see. I missed that. So what that said, he shouldn't be this super kick ass villain the. With just 2 years of training. Meaning, Ollie should be able to wipe the floor with him considering he best Ras along with others.

Two years with nothing but training is actually more than Ollie got. Ollie has better life experiences, but he spent a lot of time running, hiding, waiting in Hong Kong, etc. How long did Malcolm train with the League of Assassins?
 
Yeah, Ollie has more experience, but Chase had an obsessive overriding thirst for vengeance. Combine that with about two years of intense training, and I see nothing wrong.
 
Now I wonder who really is Vigilante? Maybe it's Pat with a male voice modulator? :hmm
 
Also, how come Oliver still wasn't in denial of his Green Arrow identity when Susan was rescued? He should have still tried to say it was someone else.

He didn't have to be in denial because Susan already knew and called him out. Oliver and Susan reconciled and she promised to keep his secret. She was on her way to a dinner date right before Chase abducted her.
 
He didn't have to be in denial because Susan already knew and called him out. Oliver and Susan reconciled and she promised to keep his secret. She was on her way to a dinner date right before Chase abducted her.

But he never explicitly admitted to her that he was the Green Arrow. She just said that she would keep his secret but he never confessed to her that she was right all along and that he was actually who he denied being before.

So when she called him Oliver when he rescued her, he should've just put on his voice changer and said "No, it's not Oliver. I just look like him and everything else about him points to me, but it's not actually Oliver. You're still mistaken." :o
 
He figured it wasn't a good idea to keep lying to her at that moment.
 

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