Artifacts-Talkback and discussion thread...

November Rain

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Just watched it, it was a good episode but i think it has been outshined by some of the other ones in this series...

they also could have made it tighter, maybe there was too much of the distant future parts thrown in but i guess they were also needed...

I won't spoilt it if you guys haven't already watched it, it's up on youtube, here are the links

Part 1
part 2
part 3
 
New episodes, time to resume my TB reviews.

Artifacts

PLOT:
In 3027, a group finds the batcave to the legendary Batman to combat the return of Mr. Freeze. While they seacrh to how to stop him, flashbacks going back to 2027 tell Batman's final fight to Mr. Freeze.

REVIEW:
Okay, so after reruns and a bit of time since the last new episode, we finally get a new episode of The Batman. And this happens to be the one I was waiting for since Comic Con '06. The Dark Knight Returns was one of my favorite Batman books. It happens to be the one that I remember the best lines from. DKR has been animated twice now. The first was in a The New Batman Adventures episode called "Legends of the Dark Knight". It was based on the second chapter of DKR "Dark Knight Triumphant" and it handled everything fine. Now one of TB's episodes is based on DKR and thanks to Con '06, I knew there was going to be changes. But I was still excited.

As the episode starts, we are shown to the first major change from the actual DKR story. The main plot is in 3027 while the DKR Batman scenes are in flashback going back to 2027. At first I thought that the flashbacks weren't going to be the full episode and it was going to be mostly about Batman & his team in the future. Thankfully, it was the other way around.

Batman in 2027: all I can say is "thank you, he is similar to the book". From that, you can tell at this moment before the epsiode airs that what you read in Miller's DKR will be sorta similar in the episode. Thats good. Batman at this time is old, and as Oracle states, he shouldn't be doing this anymore. While we know what's up with Batmabn, we don't know anything about Bruce Wayne. Is he still known to the world? Or was that identity part abandoned? We don't know. We never got to see Bruce's full face, but before he puts on the mask we see scars on his right eye. Stating that he now has a war wound from his "war" and he might not be that fast anymore. Which is correct once you see him move and fight. That's another thing: the reason why I would say it would be better to see Bruce's face is because when you see him, you don't get that "wow, he's old now" vibe. You get instead "wow, he's gotten really big" vibe. The only time where you get the fact that he's old is when danger happens and he's slow and almost like his heart is about to pop. BTW, just like DKR, Batman will agree to something lethal if its a last resort and he is himself, ready for death.

Barbara Gordon grown up, and unlike the DCAU, she's who she is in this episode like the comics. Oracle was cool. She had spunk and there wasn't a time watching this that I felt annoyed by her. As a matter of fact, since season 4 started I haven't really had any negetive feelings toward TB Batgirl/Oracle in general. One of the things left out, maybe because we don't need to know or its sorta up in the air on how it happens, is how she gets into the wheelchair. Everyone knwos why because of the well known Killing Joke, but its not even referenced on how she gets in there. It didn't hurt though. Oracle was, again, cool.

Every fanboy cheered when they were told that Nightwing was gonna appear in TB. Nightwing here has grown up from his Robin days and is ready to take over Batman. Like he says to Batman "I think its time to pass the torch". He feels ready but for Oracle and Batman, they still call him Robin even after Grayson has been Nightwing for 10 years. Oracle called him "Robin" not in a negetive way, but because she was joking "You tell me you can say Nightwing 10 times". Batman, on the other hand, might've said that because of what Nightwing said about "passing the torch" and also he doesn't want to move on. Nightwing wasn't a letdown. Unlike TNBA, the relationship between them here is not strain. I like that. Nightwing wasn't a let down and got his hands on the batwing as his own vechile.

Mr. Freeze's plan was to freeze the city. Now, at this point, its become generic. And it happen to be now for me to say that. What saved it was how Freeze looked in the future. In a smilar vain to TNBA, Freeze has become based on a spider. But not like TNBA where it was his head with spider legs, its spider legs replacing his own legs. He is the villian for both 2027 & 3027. I guess the last person to mention is Alfred. He is still alive in 2027 but with a cane and since we're in DKR mode, he has some reflection to how he looks in that book.

3027. As for whats going on with that date, its simple. In 3027, Freeze returned and its up for a team to find the old batcave and get whatever infomation to stop him. What I like about the 3027 sequences were how they played that old records were lost and they were assuming what had happening to the Bat team from what they could figure it out. How they mention or figure out things themseleves, is a DCU reference as well. When the woman, Moria, shows the costume to Robin, she calls it "Red Robin". Referencing Kingdom Come. Another reference, which many of you won't figure out or know, is when they figure out who were Batman, Batgirl, and Robin. Moria says Thomas Wayne was Batman, Martha was BatWOMAN, and Bruce was Robin. Why is this a reference? Well ignoring Martha as Batwoman, in the old Golden/Silver Age stories: Thomas Wayne wore a Bat costume that in that era of Batman, would be one of the inspirations for Bruce to become Batman. And also in those stories, it was said that before he was Batman, Bruce was a young detective calling himself Robin. I thought they were nice references but you would have to know them from all this comic book history. The scenes in 3027 were good.

Overall, this was a nice episode. I love DKR and I'm thankful for the TB crew that they were faithful to it when they were adapting as part pf their show. One of the things to point out was the end. It had a sense of finale, not to the episode, but almost to The Batman in general. Like the end for the series, even though this is in the middle of season 4. We all want a season 5 after season 4 but I felt that the last episode to this season might and prolly should've been this because of that last scene and last line of dialogue. You'll get that feelign of what I'm talking about once you see this.

RATING: 8.5/10
 
I don't know if the spoiler are still needed but just in case :
well I think it was a very cool episode. The exact moment when I said to myslf "it's cool" is when Freeze's device begin to freeze eveything in twn. The music helped a lot, and it was cool. I wasn't sure batman would survive. At one moment I was pretty sure he was dead or was going to be killed! :up:
I loved the scenes in 3027 ; the fact that they thought it was Thomas Wayne the Batman. I find it kind of "realistic" that they don't find the exact answers.
Freeze's spider look was neat.
I do hate DK (comic book) but I enjoyed this version a lot!!! :up:
 
What a kickass episode! Probably my favorite so far as nothing else comes to mind. I was hoping for a bit more exploration as what transpired with Bruce getting older and the evolution of Batgirl to Oracle and Robin to Nightwing. We know the story there, but it was have been nice to see it reflected on screen. At any rate, the nods to DKR, the current comic continuity and B:TAS al made me giddy. Excellent ep. :up:
 
Freeze: The Dark Knight Returns.

That was just...awesome
 
I thought this episode was pretty bad actually. It seemed more season three than anything. Really predictable stuff and the subplot of finding the cave was far, far more interesting than the actual 2027 story. Mr.Freeze? Really? The only villain on this show possibly worse than the Penguin? And all the stuff batman did during the 2027 part was really over the top. Even by The Batman standards. I just hope Riddler's revenge isnt this bad.
 
eh, I didn't care for Freeze, but it was cool seeing Oracle and Nightwing. :up:
 
This episode was lame. I dunno it seemed to rely on the fact that it was DKR more then an actual good story. The finding of the cave and the binary code thing was far more interesting.
 
The 6th-7th episode of the season and not one stinker. Even Season Two, THE BATMAN's best overall season until this last one, had at least one or two clunkers. But while, naturally, it'll never be as mature and in depth as JLU etc, this season has really seen a dramatic improvement. With LEGION OF SUPERHEROES being fun but light, TMNT: FAST FORWARD being trite, and FANTASTIC FOUR being more comedy than action, THE BATMAN Season 4 is quickly emerging as the #1 comic cartoon on TV right now. I suppose that shows how low the bar has fallen in the past 2-3 years, but the writing staff have definately improved. Maybe after a few seasons, they finally understand Batman. Or maybe after 3 seasons, the network backed off and allowed them to do their own thing more often (after all, they had that monkey off their back for THE BATMAN VS. DRACULA, which was actually much better that it looked in promo's). This episode, "Artifacts", is the second bit of animation to make a loose homage to THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS (B:TNGA did it with "LEGENDS").

Guest stars include Allison Mack returning as Clea, and Jerry O'Connell voicing Nightwing. He did a good job with Capt. Marvel in "CLASH", and does another good job with the older Grayson, even if he does very little (and naturally, he's no Loren Lester). It disappointed me a little that Nightwing in a way did and showed up less than Oracle did, but at least this was his best animated design. Seriously. His B:TNGA design was too angular and had that silly mullet. He looked cool in TEEN TITANS, albeit anorexic. No, here, the hair was right, he was buff while still being lean, and his mask looked more like it does in the comics.

I'm not sure this is the best episode of the season, but amung one of the strongest ones. Beginning in Gothan, year 3027, a team of hi-tech archeologists discover the ancient ruins of the Batcave, and it turns out that "Batman" has become a mythology. However, while Clea and some of the others are overjoyed with finding out that the character in childhood stories is real, they have a mission; they need to find out where, if the Batcave still has some vital info to save Gotham one last time. They discover the Batmobile (in huge Frank Miller tank mode) and the Batcomputer, but the latter is unable to be accessed as it is 1000 years out of date. I thought they'd be able to access some computer to lead into the inevitable "flashbacks" of their past (and about 20 years into Batman's future). But instead they just "happen", which was a little awkward, but whatever.

Naturally, Batman is in darker colors and bulkier frame, and Romano grizzles up his voice to sound like your older, over-the-hill Batman in 2027. Of course, exactly how old Batman is can be up to some debate. In Season One, he'd been Batman for approx. 3 years. The comics usually claim he first donned the cowl at age 23, so he was 26 in Season 1. If they have one season = one year like JLU did towards the end, then he is currently 29 in Season 4 and would be 49 in 2027. Granted, even a 29 year old Batman is a younger one than we had in B:TAS, who presumably was at least in his early 30's when we came in. Naturally, in DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, Batman is supposed to be 50. Maybe I've nitpicked to death. But the point is, even at merely "pushing" 50, Batman would be far past his prime and naturally no surprise that Barbara is pleading with him at times to abandon the "mission" and "play crosswords" before his heart & body fail him. Wayne, gray hair and scarred face, refuses. Mr. Freeze, in a suped up new cyber-suit, is icing up Gotham airport, just as a cargo plane is landing, putting the pilot's life in jeopardy. Batman's weapons cannot breatch his armor and he is forced to battle mano-e-mano, which does not go well for a bit. Both he and Oracle continue to call Nightwing "Robin", even when he claimed to have donned a new identity "for a good ten years now".

Back to the Future (c'mon, no geek could resist that), naturally it is amusing for a fan to see what history "gets right" about Batman some 1020 years into the future. Firstly, they refer to his partner as "Red Robin", which naturally is Grayson's identity in KINGDOM COME. They also incorrectly assume that Thomas Wayne was Batman, his wife Batwoman, and his son Red Robin. Nice to know that he still has some mystery in the future. They also have a nice lead-in to revealing that Barb is wheelchair bound as Oracle but naturally do not, or cannot, allude to why (fans naturally know that in DCU, she was crippled by a bullet from the Joker for the past 20+ years, and to DC's credit they've never healed her, despite the fact that Wayne once had his own back broken by Bane, but healed up quick). It also appears that Gotham is suffering another ice age, meaning Mr. Freeze (who their chief feels calling "Dr. Frost") survived. Naturally, this is another homage to BATMAN BEYOND, as Mr. Freeze was one of only a few Batman villians to actually survive into the future of 2040 (the others being Joker, Bane, and Ra's Al Ghul). And as usual, Clancy Brown makes the best of his dialogue, only for once doesn't have to make any "have an ICE day!" puns.

Nightwing saves the pilot and Oracle is good for info and controlling their vehicles when they dive out of them, but Grayson is near useless as Batman naturally uses some savvy and grit to over come Mr. Freeze. However, Freeze cryogencially froze himself into the future (albeit missing his lower half) where he was revived. What I did like was that when Mr. Freeze temporarialy effected the weather, the effects didn't just vanish like in the SPIDER-FRIENDS episode LIZARDS, LIZARDS, EVERYWHERE and other cartoons. In fact, an "ice age" in Gotham wasn't uncommon.

The episode's cleverist bit was discovering that the Batcave's titanium walls had binary code written on them, allowing for translation of the Batwave's data, and allowing Batman, or at least his recorded image, to return to allow them the secret to his diamond-tipped weapon. The ranting of Freeze when the agents impersonated Batman via holograms was priceless.

"No! I waited 1000 years! YOU CAN'T BE HERE!"

Plus, you had them rebuilding the Batcave and building that statue, allowing Batman to seemingly become to Gotham what Superman is to Metropolis. It was sweet. Not a perfect episode, as it wasn't THAT complicated, but didn't need to be. The battles were naturally intense and you could tell the gang watched enough video games.

A very enjoyable episode, which in some ways was actualy better than LEGENDS; animation wise for sure. THE BATMAN has been picked up for a 5th season, and hopefully the improvement sticks around. It is good to have a Batman show worth my time again. It's no Timmverse, but in today's fluffier market, it'll have to do.
 
Does it make any sense to anyone how a villain from a 1000 years ago was no match to an army of cops 1000 years in the future? Thats like a dude with a sword plaguing some soldiers. It just wouldnt happen.
 
Does it make any sense to anyone how a villain from a 1000 years ago was no match to an army of cops 1000 years in the future? Thats like a dude with a sword plaguing some soldiers. It just wouldnt happen.

Shining Knight.
 
Nice Episode.....Batman Beyond Freeze just had his head...now is just from his torso up.....Oh well....
 
does anyone wish that mr freeze would have had some animated ice-soldiers...

i really wanted to see nightwing tearing people up....his plane save was good but i felt like he was doing a spidey impresonation with all the puns and whatnot...

with the titans and TAS batman having their nightwings being more broody, this lighter one didn't sit too well with me but i guess his relationship with bruce must have stayed good over the years and the NIGHTWING must have never gone on to form the teen titans...

I would have loved for there to be some bad blood between them, as well as seeing nightwing do a quadruple sommersault or something...

battlewise they could have done more, future episodes should always be 2 eps long...


also, did people notice that bennet as two face is said to have reformed and re-joined the police force and detective Yin has now become a commisioner?

I found it a bit weird that gordon still wasn't in the fold on her daughter's or bruce's activities...I wished they would have referenced him but not actually have used him...

also, with mechanical leg tecnology going round, why did babara not have a pair and still wish to be in a wheelchair, surely bruce would be able to get his hands on such technology?
 
I watched this by mistake, and I actually loved it. I missed the theme song though :( the edge one was better.
 
I just happen to be awake getting ready to go to work and I turned on the tv and there it was. I usually wake up late because I work late.
 
oh, i thought you meant you clicked on my links by accident, my bad...
 
does anyone wish that mr freeze would have had some animated ice-soldiers...
They could surround him with some henchmen like in the TAS when he first appeared.............i would love to see TB Mr.Freeze get a hold on some Polar Bears....like the ones he had in Sub-zero...but I thought The bears Sub-zero suited the TAS freeze brilliantly.......But i don't think TB freeze needs any ice soldier...since his power are very strong and vast
 
i really just meant as cannon fodder so we could see nightwing go through his paces...

even though he had been called nightwing for so long, it didn't feel as though he had branched out from his robin position, i wanted to see him grown up and tackling baddies or at least something..
the fact he was flying that batmobile (not updated) and not his own vehicle said volumes...
 

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