ASM #600! 104 Pages! No reprints! No ads! Now... with CAKE!

[kguillou]

They just shouldnt have had the devil make a deal with Peter plain and simple. They could've chose anybody else to do it and the the reception would've been much better than it is now.

 

[IFryKids]

I haven't really read this thread, so forgive me if this has all been repeated already:

I, for one, tried to get into Spider-man after OMD. I really did. I just couldn't stay on it. To me, Spider-man since that happened has felt like an alternate reality, if that makes any sense. It just feels off, especially since they just turned the switch on his marriage like that. Doing that wasn't creative, it was lazy writing. You wanted to get rid of MJ? Fine, make a story about her being killed by one of his enemies. Imagine the kind of character development they could've put Peter through after something like that. And if fans complained, they could still find a way to bring her back, it happens all the time. But no, instead they turn back the clock 20-30 years with a single Peter who still has his aunt. It's a shame. It could've been a real turning point for the character, but Marvel is too afraid of keeping the status quo.

 

[kguillou]

Well to be fair, they considered killing MJ but the point was that killing Mj would've just made the books even darker. Peter was already going through a rough patch with civil war and everything and marvel was trying to lighten up the books. Killing MJ would've just made the book more depressing because Peter would be sobbing over her grave for 100 issues.

 

[IFryKids]

Then the mis-writing of him starts with Civil War. If they had handled that differently, they would've opened themselves up to more options later on.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Well to be fair, they considered killing MJ but the point was that killing Mj would've just made the books even darker. Peter was already going through a rough patch with civil war and everything and marvel was trying to lighten up the books. Killing MJ would've just made the book more depressing because Peter would be sobbing over her grave for 100 issues.

I still like my idea from the other thread:

OMG! (One More Gay!) In this, Mephisto doesn't destroy Peter Parker and MJ's marriage...Peter comes to MJ and admits he's secretly gay. This, of course, has an opening shot in the first issue of BNG (yep, Brand New Gay) of Peter kissing Harry Osborn. (OMG! I just thought they would then be called "Harry Peter!")

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That would be hilarious.

 

[Tron Bonne]

And gay

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I see what you did there.

 

[JewishHobbit]

What career had Peter created before OMD? The teaching job? JMS introduced that in his second issue and barely touched it for the remainder of his run... Peter David did more with it in FNSM... and even at the begining of BND, he tries to get a teaching job but because of all the screw ups with his last position, he's NOT RELIABLE as a teacher, and we've seen this before when Peter attempts to make something with his work, like the scientist job he got when Mackie did the reboot... it never pans out because his being Spider-Man gets in the way...

Them screwing up the teacher thing was also stupid, but it was a great career move and a sign that he was attempting to grow. It ran well and had some good storylines with it (and it doesn't matter which title they were in, it was Peter's story). And if it WAS in BND where he couldn't get a good teaching job... I'm pretty sure that means that it was BND that screwed that up and once again reduced him down to grunt picture taking work again. Thanks BND, provided what you say is true.

And I don't see a character regression... I see a character continuation... but because of the way BND began, which was poorly executed by Marvel, in my opinion... people have just jumped on this "the last 20 years never happened and JMS' "cough, cough" brilliant Spidey work never happened and Peter has never matured, etc, etc... ad nauseum" bandwagon... but if a person has looked at ALL the stories since, it's plain to see that this is merely the next step in the life of Peter Parker, with his last 45+ years of experience still intact.

So the next logical step in advancement in the life of Peter Parker is to go from Married to never have been married, from a steady and secure husband to a bachelor who couldn't even commit to the girl he lived with for how long???, from someone with a respectable adult career in the education field (albeit new) to snapping pictures like a college student, from his wife being the most important person in his life to his momma-equivlent being the most important person in his life, etc. etc. etc. I wish I could grow up like that. Think my wife will go for it And maybe I can move back in with my Mommy while I'm at it and start sucking my thumb.

Sorry, but going from a matured married (semi) career-minded person to a single commitment afraid bachelor with a dead end job isn't progression. Especially when he was in this exact same position back in the 80's.

 

[farmernudie]

Originally Posted by Dan_Slott
No. You're obviously biased AGAINST an old ASM story (OMD) from over 50 issues ago...

See, gotta point this out, love it or hate the direction....this statement here negates one of the Pro-BND arguements that is thrown around here and in other forums. Surprised some of the pro BND'ers haven't put on their big boy underwear and pointed it out...

OMD....it is STILL going!!

PRo-BND'ers are costantly saying:
"We just have to WAIT because this is a mystery where they're slowly gonna reveal the answers to everything OMD in BND ...IF...you wait long enough and keep reading BND."

To say that "this is an OLD STORY, 50 issues ago"....is illogical. It negates the theory that we're waiting for answers in the OMD/BND story. Period.

OMD is NOT a self contained story. It is the foundation and basis for everything, EVERYTHING the Spidey world (BND) now IS.

You can paint a wall over and over, but it stil has it's origins and undercoat.

People that do not like Spidey currently, for varying intelligently spoken reasons, do not like it, because they do not like the NEW DIRECTION.

Why can't anyone, forum people, pro, anti, Writers, Artists, EICS...etc...just admit that the DIRECTION is devisive and yes they're doing their best with it, but many do not like the DIRECTION, and prolly won't until the next REBOOT.

Why try to keep summing up the anti's or the pro's...(who are all giant spidey FANS!!) as people who "CAN"T GET OVER AN OLD STORY 50 ISSUES AGO?"

Throwing fans into that small box is not fair, and olny adds to the problem, which is some people are not recognizing their OPINIONS at all.

This (OMD/BND) is NOT Sins Past...a BAD self contained "story", not referenced ever again. That is ignored mostly. They are not building a world around that story and still exploring it and winking at it, with fans saying..."more of the story will be revealed and then you'll like it if you WAIT long enough."

Sins past= self contained.
OMD/BNMD= ongoing.

OMD is still going...it is a stone with ripples still traveling out from it's center. They have not ended it. PEte lives in the OMD world now. Everyone does.

The writers and joe originally said there was nothing to explain. Now they say answers, some answers will come eventually. Fans think and state on forums that they are waiting for answers. Slott himself is trying to explain magical masks and memory healing powers that PEte has. This giant ugly walrus is still showing up....Mj is catching flowers even tho she is not married and never was, tho some fans think she remembers that she is married due to whispers to the devil and etc.

Again, regardless of your opinion of this reboot that is still going, it is unfair to sum someone, anyone, up as simply as STUCK ON AN OLD STORY AS IF IT IS OVER NOW. It's not?!

If it is over, then there is no more to say about it, and no one is looking back to it, but eveyrone reading BND now is always saying they're waiting and sure answers are coming.

So BOTH SIDES are still looking back at this OLD STORY 50 ISSUES AGO...because we're still reading about it.

If BND is to succeed, they can throw all the talent at it they can muster, but at some point, they need to get rid of the foundation of the reboot, and everything to do with it, off their backs and off EVERYONES minds. Who cares what MJ whispered to the devil. The whole thing needs to disappear now for people, pro and con, to move on, imo. People by now will have either accpeted that Pete deals witht he devil with no ramifications or they don't accept it. Everyone is looking back at that, and has their views of it, by now.

 

[farmernudie]

I might add, i agree with Slott's sentiment/statement IF he was saying that about someone still talking about not liking Spider-Man anymore because they didn't like the SPider-Man Vs. Firelord 2-parter STORY. (just as an example). ((Which was a GREAT story, imo))

(You don't give up a comic series typically based on one bad story) OMD/BND isn't one bad story. It is a foundation for everything that is now. It is still going, still being explained, people still waiting for more explanations.

But, I mean, people are STILL talking about SINS PAST in threads of all sorts, it always comes up. Here, everywhere. No one is riding anyone for mentioning it when they do. A bad STORY from long ago. Why don't fans jump all over other fans when they mention not liking Sins Past still, all the time? It is a contradiction.

OMD/BND is an ONGOING concept, storyline, whatever, so it is ALL fair to discuss an ongoing story.

Although, in my opinion, it is fair to talk about ANY topic here. Old or new.

 

[Themanofbat]

So the next logical step in advancement in the life of Peter Parker is to go from Married to never have been married, from a steady and secure husband to a bachelor who couldn't even commit to the girl he lived with for how long???, from someone with a respectable adult career in the education field (albeit new) to snapping pictures like a college student, from his wife being the most important person in his life to his momma-equivlent being the most important person in his life, etc. etc. etc. I wish I could grow up like that. Think my wife will go for it And maybe I can move back in with my Mommy while I'm at it and start sucking my thumb.

Sorry, but going from a matured married (semi) career-minded person to a single commitment afraid bachelor with a dead end job isn't progression. Especially when he was in this exact same position back in the 80's.

You're looking at it from the aforementioned bandwagon I spoke of in my last post...

He went from being in a 20 year long committed relationship (just not a married one) to single life because something (and as of yet told story) made them separate.

And he snaps pictures because it's the only consistant way he can make ends meet... maybe when he was relying on MJ's hollywood salary, things were cooler, but he can't rely on that anymore, and as we have seen NOT ONLY IN BND, but in the past as well, Peter Parker simply cannot hold onto a "career" job because being Spider-Man interferes with his work.

And at the end of the day... these characters have to hit some point where growth (as in age) will cease because it will be the deathknell of the character... Bruce Wayne has been Batman for how many years now??? 70??? If Peter Parker is to be Spider-Man for another 25 years and be around for 70 like Batman is today, then he can't be married or have babies or grow old... though he CAN go through life experiences that will show character growth... and THAT's the road Marvel has chosen to follow... for longevity of the character.

We might not like it... we all would like to see Peter grow old with a loved one and babies, but it's never going to happen.

Sorry...

 

[hippie_hunter]

Sins Past is not self contained on account that Gwen's character is still horribly tainted by it and the Goblin Kids are still around.

 

[farmernudie]

My point was...Sins Past is just a "Story"....and that it is NOT the basis of an ongoing series or reboot. It is self contained.

There is no new world based around Norman sleeping with Gwen and etc.

They are not talking about it or having stories unraveling the mysteries of Sins Past. It is over, and widely panned by fans to this day.

Clone Saga was akin to OMD/BND. CLone Saga and OMD/BND reboot the character and what we knew about their past creating a whole new launching point.

Sins Past is not launching or creating a new reboot.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

OMD/BND is an ONGOING concept, storyline, whatever, so it is ALL fair to discuss an ongoing story.

Maybe so, but to be honest, people should get over it by now. I mean, things are even better than they were, for christs sake. Yeah, I was pissed when OMD happened, and I still do miss the marriage, but as I said maultiple times, I'm quite over it now. What we have now is stories that huge Spider-Man fans will love.

This is just what I think though, so to each his own.

 

[venom892]

You know I'm in the same boat as Corp.I did all my *****ing already and I know where I stand.I speak with my Wallet.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Why even bother reading/reviewing Spider-Man? you know you there is no chance you'll like it unless they undo OMD and they're not gonna. I understand everyone has a right to their opinion and you don't like the current state of AMS so why do you keep reading it?
If you don't like how food tastes do you just keep eating it and clompainig about the awful taste or do you eat something else? Also since I'm using food analogies. Isn't it annoying when you are eating something you enjoy and you decide to share it with everyone and someone in the group goes on a rant about how much they hate the food you're eating and enjoying with everyone else instead of just saying I don't like how it tastes and moving on. If you don't get it comics are food

I go to two comic shops on a regular basis. At one of them there is a guy there who HATED One More Day. He gave BND a chance with the Slott/McNiven story and like most of the posters really didn't like that they took this "new direction".

He would see me continuing to buy the Spider-Man books each week and he would bust my chops like we all do when we are at the shop. He would very much give me his opinion on how he still dislikes the direction and they are ruining the past twenty years of stories, etc.

Now this went on for about maybe four or five months. Eventually when he would see me buy the book he would ask me, "Hey, how is the story? Are they crapping on continuity more and more?" I would give him my opinion on things and he would just nod his head.

Another few months went by and he wouldn't even SAY anything about it anymore. He'd see me buying the books and then we would just rap about our other interests in the comics community.

That was about a six month or eight month period that had passed between One More Day and finally that week I went in and he didn't mention about how stupid One More Day was. How stupid Joe Quesada was. How dumb Marvel was. All that wonderful, hateful things that fans enjoy saying to let out their emotions about the storyline.

This guy is probably the most passionate fan I have known. It's annoying at times but I do enjoy talking with him because he can throw around a few zingers that make my day a little brighter.

I figured, "Hey, if THIS guy can kind of settle down about it then the insanity over at The Hype will be settled down". I ran through some of the threads and it seemed pretty normal until I posted something...so, I decided to stay away for another six months. I figured BY THEN things should be somewhat settled down.

Well, it kind of is and kind of isn't now. Some of the posters that I grew to respect, even when we never saw eye to eye, seemed to be a little cooled down.

My point is that One More Day was a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of fans. And, much like my buddy at the comics shop, it's still a bitter pill to swallow when reading current Spider-Man comics knowing full well the direction of the book NOW was taken from the aftermath of One More Day. Though I will hope that some posters on this board will take a cue from my buddy at the comic shop and kind of let it go. Doesn't mean you have to read the book now or like the book now. But I think bryans puts it very nicely. You have a right to an opinion but it is also a VERY ANNOYING opinion. t:

 

[JewishHobbit]

You're looking at it from the aforementioned bandwagon I spoke of in my last post...

Call it whatever negative phrase you like it's truth. Peter has been regressed. It's in print every issue where he is in a place he was once beyond. You can call me a bandwagoner but I could just as easily call you biased and talk about how you're turning a blind eye to the Spider-Man world in favor of what you used to enjoy way back when. It really doesn't change anything. What is... is.

He went from being in a 20 year long committed relationship (just not a married one) to single life because something (and as of yet told story) made them separate.

That story is already told. It was Mephisto from a story called OMD. You may have heard of it. And I don't know who wrote that aspect of the relaunch that said it was a live in relationship and not a marraige but they should be fired. It was just stupid, absolutely stupid. And because he WAS married and now only living with someone then it's still a step backwards for the character.

And he snaps pictures because it's the only consistant way he can make ends meet... maybe when he was relying on MJ's hollywood salary, things were cooler, but he can't rely on that anymore, and as we have seen NOT ONLY IN BND, but in the past as well, Peter Parker simply cannot hold onto a "career" job because being Spider-Man interferes with his work.

But he was trying and had been for a while. Now he's back to his old college job, no progression. And that's the writers' fault. They had a chance to let him move forward as a teacher and use those little imaginations of theirs and make it work. They chose to make it NOT work and so they regressed that aspect of the character.

And at the end of the day... these characters have to hit some point where growth (as in age) will cease because it will be the deathknell of the character... Bruce Wayne has been Batman for how many years now??? 70??? If Peter Parker is to be Spider-Man for another 25 years and be around for 70 like Batman is today, then he can't be married or have babies or grow old... though he CAN go through life experiences that will show character growth... and THAT's the road Marvel has chosen to follow... for longevity of the character.

I can accept that argument in regards to kids, that's no problem, but being married doesn't change a thing about the longevity of a character. If a character is within marraige age then they can marry and stay that way. Does Spider-Man suddenly feel 40 because he was married to MJ? Not at all. This is nothing more than a lame excuse wanting to justify crap like this.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Then the mis-writing of him starts with Civil War. If they had handled that differently, they would've opened themselves up to more options later on.

you mean dissapointing stories for Spidey started with Civil War? Well, honestly, if so, then I have to disagree. Sins Past started that and continued onward through Civil War. If I'm not understanding your post correctly, just tell me.

 

[JewishHobbit]

My point is that One More Day was a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of fans. And, much like my buddy at the comics shop, it's still a bitter pill to swallow when reading current Spider-Man comics knowing full well the direction of the book NOW was taken from the aftermath of One More Day. Though I will hope that some posters on this board will take a cue from my buddy at the comic shop and kind of let it go. Doesn't mean you have to read the book now or like the book now. But I think bryans puts it very nicely. You have a right to an opinion but it is also a VERY ANNOYING opinion. t:

Yes, but if we didn't complain about it then people would assume we approve or are indifferant, and we can't have that. Marvel doesn't give a lick about us fans who have been hurt by their blatant disrespect for the character and his history, why should we care about the disrespect we give them in return. I would be cheering hooting and hollering if the book failed and they had to backtrack and fix everything, but I doubt it'll happen so I get my kicks when I can.

I try to keep it civil enough to where I don't disrespect other posters or the current writing team about it, but the idea itself, Quesada, Marvel themselves, and OMD is open game to me.

I will say that it's hard to keep that mindset though when I hear idiotic things like "It's been 50 issues, get over it". It's also only been, what, a year and a half? That's not a lot of time. It's very disrespectful and belittling. Sorry if we don't have a 3 year old's attention span and can't be tricked to forgetting something bad if we can just be distracted long enough. Especially when the evidenses are still evident in every issue.

 

[JewishHobbit]

you mean dissapointing stories for Spidey started with Civil War? Well, honestly, if so, then I have to disagree. Sins Past started that and continued onward through Civil War. If I'm not understanding your post correctly, just tell me.

Disappointment started for me when Aunt May was resurrected

 

[SpideyInATree]

Yes, but if we didn't complain about it then people would assume we approve or are indifferant, and we can't have that. Marvel doesn't give a lick about us fans who have been hurt by their blatant disrespect for the character and his history, why should we care about the disrespect we give them in return. I would be cheering hooting and hollering if the book failed and they had to backtrack and fix everything, but I doubt it'll happen so I get my kicks when I can.

I try to keep it civil enough to where I don't disrespect other posters or the current writing team about it, but the idea itself, Quesada, Marvel themselves, and OMD is open game to me.

I will say that it's hard to keep that mindset though when I hear idiotic things like "It's been 50 issues, get over it". It's also only been, what, a year and a half? That's not a lot of time. It's very disrespectful and belittling. Sorry if we don't have a 3 year old's attention span and can't be tricked to forgetting something bad if we can just be distracted long enough. Especially when the evidenses are still evident in every issue.

I understand that very much. You don't want to be forgotten. I do think that Marvel has gotten the point that there are a faction of fans out there that do not like the One More Day and the direction that it's taken.

Though the sales are what speak to men like Joe Quesada and to the Marvel marketing department. And, from what I've seen from the sales figures the past year and a half, is that Amazing Spider-Man, even being put out on a weekly basis, has not left the top twenty in that entire time. Though I do believe there were a few months were they dipped below that twenty mark. But, for the most part, the book has consistently been selling well.

It's unfortunate that ALL comic books have not been selling as well as they used to which really saddens me. Though that is another discussion for another thread.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying, "Ha Ha". But that's what the powers that be are looking at. The sales. There are just not enough people who are disgusted by the book to warrant any kind of change and, after reading # 600, I don't really see it changing anytime soon.

As I've said before. You can only beat a dead horse for so long before there is nothing left to beat.

 

[Kitsune]

Can I get some of that cake now?

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Disappointment started for me when Aunt May was resurrected

Yeah, but she's great to have around. She's been ressurected a few times, right? My memory is blurry at times.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Yeah, but she's great to have around. She's been ressurected a few times, right? My memory is blurry at times.

Technically she was only resurrected once, during One More Day. It was merely an actor that died in Amazing Spider-Man # 400, which was not revealed until WAYYYY later. I'm glad I was not reading the Spider-Man books at that time but that is a very sore spot with me. Amazing Spider-Man # 400 was a very great issue and was tarnished.

So, yes, I know how many fans feel after the One More Day fiasco. I eventually moved on though.