Atheism : Love it or Leave it? - Part 2

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Religion does help plenty of addicts. That's just one of those true facts. As a recovering addict myself, I get it, even if that's not how I got over my addictions personally.

For the sake of argument, I will throw out there that thinking there's something greater than you out there in a religious sense doesn't necessarily extend to all recovering addicts. My wife used to be a New Age-y believer. It helped her defeat her cocaine addiction, and for that I'm grateful. But, now she's an atheist. We can get a sense of something greater than us beyond a personal god just by looking up at the sky after the sun sets. That's all the awe we need. Those stars don't have to have a personal stake in our lives for us to see that there's amazing, inconceivably grand things going on in this existence.
 
Religion does help plenty of addicts. That's just one of those true facts. As a recovering addict myself, I get it, even if that's not how I got over my addictions personally.

For the sake of argument, I will throw out there that thinking there's something greater than you out there in a religious sense doesn't necessarily extend to all recovering addicts. My wife used to be a New Age-y believer. It helped her defeat her cocaine addiction, and for that I'm grateful. But, now she's an atheist. We can get a sense of something greater than us beyond a personal god just by looking up at the sky after the sun sets. That's all the awe we need. Those stars don't have to have a personal stake in our lives for us to see that there's amazing, inconceivably grand things going on in this existence.

That's a fine way of looking at it. It's more magical and awe inspiring to think that nature brought forth everything you see rather than some all powerful being making it for you. We are just microbes lucky enough to have been bred on a habitable speck in this vast cosmos. There's more humility in that than thinking that it was all made for your benefit.
 
Faced with the evidence, he admitted he was wrong.

Thus the difference between the scientific approach and that of the general stance of the Abrahamic religions.

Actually, Islam is generally lax when it comes to science, they, for example, support stem cell usage. The only thing they prohibit is plastic surgery to those who don't need it.
 
Was talking to a recovering heroin addict yesterday, who said he was struggling with religion because he couldn't see it was possible.

So I asked him why he struggled at all? If you don't believe, you don't believe (cause that's how I see my atheism having come about).

He said he struggled because he WANTED to believe.

I couldn't really respond to that. I just said 'fair enough'.

I have absolutely no problem with that form of spiritual belief. The kind that really helps people get through the day.

Sorry for the double post, but I know how he feels. I had been raised to believe in God and it was just something I never questioned, and as a child like someone with an imaginary friend, I would at times in bed, talk to God but really it was just myself. And for a long time as my faith wavered it had become more that I just wanted God to be real, sometimes I still do. I wonder, wouldn't it be cool if there was a God, but then I reason with myself knowing that it's really my fear of the unknown causing that.
 
I know a few recovering addicts, and latching onto a religion has really helped them. I think some addicts feel alone in their struggles, and thinking that there's someone with them all the time watching their backs seems to help.

Religion does help plenty of addicts. That's just one of those true facts. As a recovering addict myself, I get it, even if that's not how I got over my addictions personally.

For the sake of argument, I will throw out there that thinking there's something greater than you out there in a religious sense doesn't necessarily extend to all recovering addicts. My wife used to be a New Age-y believer. It helped her defeat her cocaine addiction, and for that I'm grateful. But, now she's an atheist. We can get a sense of something greater than us beyond a personal god just by looking up at the sky after the sun sets. That's all the awe we need. Those stars don't have to have a personal stake in our lives for us to see that there's amazing, inconceivably grand things going on in this existence.

Agree with you both.

My mum has been assosiated with Alcoholics Anonymous since before I was born, and it's always been something that seems to kind of incorporates 'God' (at least in the meetings around here), which actually put me off suggesting it to a few people. I personally don't know that having that pushed on me would be helpful. But it is very much encouraged to find a spiritual belief. They even lay books out on all sorts of things.

I very much find my peace from marvelling at the miracle that is our world. Walking in the woods, fishing out at sea, staring up at the stars, climbing jagged mountains, exploring intricate caves, following little rivers or marvelling at giant waterfalls... whatever it is, all you have to do is look around to see how wonderful it is to have life, in the midst of all of this beauty and uniqueness.

Sorry for the double post, but I know how he feels. I had been raised to believe in God and it was just something I never questioned, and as a child like someone with an imaginary friend, I would at times in bed, talk to God but really it was just myself. And for a long time as my faith wavered it had become more that I just wanted God to be real, sometimes I still do. I wonder, wouldn't it be cool if there was a God, but then I reason with myself knowing that it's really my fear of the unknown causing that.

Sounds like how I felt about Santa.

I didn't 'officially' stop believing in Santa until I was about 10. I mean I really really hung onto that. Loved the old movie 'Santa Claus: The Movie' (not to be confused with 'The Santa Claus movie'. Had tonnes of books on him. One of which, if I remember right, was full of evidence he existed. Testimonials, and snaps caught of him fleeing the scene :awesome: And I used to show that to people and say 'See, he IS real'.

I so desperately wanted to believe in him, that I clung to anything.

But eventually I let it go. Partly because my mum started putting 'From Santa and Mum' on the presents (I think she resented still having to buy from both at that age :woot:), and partly because you just have to stop believing in magic and fairytales as you grow up.

I used to believe in loads of things! I believed in Neverland (in fact I used to beg God to let me go there). I believed my toys came alive when I wasn't in the room. I believed animals could understand every word you said, and i'd talk to me dog for hours.

And now that I am not a child, I can clearly see what parts of my childhood were fairytales, and what was reality.

But because parents and other adults continue to believe in God, some people don't see it in the same category like I do.

But there is absolutely no more proof of God than there is of Santa. Of neverland. Of my toys coming alive.

And TBH, if I was going to believe in something out of that list, i'd rather believe in Neverland. Because that's my idea of heaven! Adventures and flying and pirates and mermaids and fairies and magic! Now that would be incredible.

God, angels, satan, a bunch of virgins waiting for me... I can live without that myself.
 
Okay, i'm an atheist... but i'm not some nut in an organisation that's gotta sue for everything that remotely fringes on religious injustice, despite it hurting a lot of people, and the reason not actually causing any suffering if left alone...

I have no issue with the cross being in the WTC memorial. All it needs is a plaque saying 'this peice of the foundations, resembling the christian cross, has since been seen as a symbol of hope for those of christian faith.'

That's a fact. It's not pushing belief on anyone. Just representing those who do.
 
well mdid you ever see George Carlin talking about religion, if you haven't youtube it... funny and sooooo true
 
Okay, i'm an atheist... but i'm not some nut in an organisation that's gotta sue for everything that remotely fringes on religious injustice, despite it hurting a lot of people, and the reason not actually causing any suffering if left alone...

I have no issue with the cross being in the WTC memorial. All it needs is a plaque saying 'this peice of the foundations, resembling the christian cross, has since been seen as a symbol of hope for those of christian faith.'

That's a fact. It's not pushing belief on anyone. Just representing those who do.


Exactly.


I have no problem with someone seeking to have a more inclusive religious representation at the memorial but seeking to sue over this piece is no different than the christian groups that freak out over every little thing on television.
 
I'm sure not only Christians died at 9/11


Bingo. That is correct, sir.

Yet, if you were to include anything 'Middle Eastern' or 'Islamic' into the memorial, I'm pretty sure alot of Christians, Americans, anti-Muslims, etc would protest the hell out of it, and come up with some pathetic excuse on why it shouldn't be included.

"Look, I'm not a racist nor do I discriminate against anyone's religious beliefs, buttt...."
 
They should at least attempt to represent more than one group of people. The problem is, not everyone is mature enough for that. Or just a problem of laziness.
 
Yep. In America, it always seems to come down to laziness and/or immaturity. Which is unfortunate, if you ask me.

America should use this as a positive, not a negative.

"Sure, you extremists nailed us hard at home, but this won't derail us, and this atrocious/cowardly act won't make us turn against our own neighbors and brothers. You failed, and will continue to do so."
 
The following is infuriating. This teacher, and that school district in general has failed these students. This teacher claims he gives evolution its "fair shake" and yet none of his students appear to have ANY grasp of the mechanics of it all, and though I know this clip is short, it doesn't appear that he makes any attempt to respond with an explanation.:dry:

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People are free to their religious beliefs but non-scientific ideas do not belong in a science class or curriculum. At all. The teacher says he doesn't want to tell his students that their religious beliefs are crap. Thats fine but you don't have to. All that needs to be said is the truth, that their is no scientific proof for their beliefs.
 
I have to say, the stupidest thing about teaching Intelligent Design is that they try to explain it, and miracles with real science. If it happened because of nature, then it's not a miracle, if it's not a miracle, then it wasn't God, and if it wasn't God, why do you believe in him?

Leave science to science classes.
 
They should at least attempt to represent more than one group of people. The problem is, not everyone is mature enough for that.

That sounds about right.
 
Here’s my stance:

I was brought up a roman catholic and went to a Roman Catholic school. When I was little I was very devout and had a pretty sold knowledge of the bible. But as I grew older the concept of god began to make little sense. There were so many apparent holes that I could not fill in that my strong belief began to waver. I became agnostic and the only thing that stopped me becoming atheist was a combination of my upbringing and fear. Fear of the unknown. Because if there is no god, then surely there is no afterlife ergo when we die are consciousness ceases to exist. Now that is an extremely worrying thing for me. It’s a simple concept but also simultaneously a hard one to imagine. No more thoughts, not more feelings, nothing. Eternal sleep. Every time I try and imagine that I start to feel a bit sick. It’s akin to brain death which they say is a "fate worse than death." This idea of an eternal sleep is a fate worse than hell. I'd rather feeling everlasting pain than lose my consciousness and my ability to think, my ability to exist. It makes everything seem so petty and pointless.

So anyway I was agonistic for a good few years. Then in 2009 I contracted cancer, a sarcoma in my leg. I was only 15 and it hit me really hard. Chemotherapy was a ****ing nightmare and the top it all off it didn't even work. The doctors were going to amputate which would have ruined my life. Funnily enough God didn't even enter my mind during this period. During one particular chemo week (due to being under 18 and the severity of my chemo I had to stay in the hospital) I was having a really bad time. I was throwing up every five minutes; I was having convulsions, not sleeping at all. It was the day I had to go home and they tested my bloods to see how I was. My potassium levels were through the floor. They would come back in an hour to test them again and if they had not improved (which they likely would not), I was staying for another two days. Well this sent me a bit loopy.

While I was waiting, a nun popped her head round for a chat. She was one of the kindest most well spoken women I'd ever met and she promised she'd pray for me. I was genuinely touched. Also in the next bed a little girl with leukaemia was praying with her mother and her preacher nonstop for about four hours straight. Both these incidences struck a chord within me and I began to pray too. I prayed I would leave here and never come back and that I would get rid of the cancer without losing my leg. Almost instantaneously the doctor said my bloods were fine and I could be let go. I left the hospital ward and I never came back. My doctor said the chemo should be stopped and I found a surgeon that would remove the tumour without amputation. I had radiotherapy and for the moment I am fine.

This experience reinforced my belief and I am no longer agnostic (though I am wary of organised religion). My belief in god makes me feel better about myself. It makes me feel less scared and apprehensive about life and death. Now you could say that this is all one big fat coincidence and I’m just seeing patterns where there aren’t any. You could be right I suppose. But, to me, it just doesn’t feel like a coincidence. You could ask, why does he “save” my life and not the lives of so many others? I couldn’t answer I’m afraid. I think the true concept of god is far beyond a nice old man in the clouds. It’s beyond our mere understanding. Apologies for exercising a cliché but: “God works in mysterious ways.”

Anyway that’s what I believe and how I came to believe it.

Thanks
 
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God may work in mysterious ways but we can seek to un-shroud mystery. We can seek answers. Things may be out of our control but we can at least attempt to understand them, and if they are beyond our understanding,we can attempt to push beyond our limits, and if our limits remain forever beyond our power to overcome, then we can at the very least rail against the walls of reality content in the knowledge that we did all that could be done.

There is no need to accept our current situation.
 
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That meme looks like just typical troll humour on the surface, but the simplicity of it points out exactly why I find it impossible to believe such a God.
 
The following is infuriating. This teacher, and that school district in general has failed these students. This teacher claims he gives evolution its "fair shake" and yet none of his students appear to have ANY grasp of the mechanics of it all, and though I know this clip is short, it doesn't appear that he makes any attempt to respond with an explanation.:dry:

[YT]jNGGNomLx_c&NR=1[/YT]


People are free to their religious beliefs but non-scientific ideas do not belong in a science class or curriculum. At all. The teacher says he doesn't want to tell his students that their religious beliefs are crap. Thats fine but you don't have to. All that needs to be said is the truth, that their is no scientific proof for their beliefs.

The bit about skin colour at the end... yikes. The ignorance is staggering. The arrogance, too--this girl is just sitting there saying "Nope, those guys are wrong, evolution could not have happened."

That's incredible. Something has gone fundamentally wrong in the education of these kids.
 
Holy crap, watching that video makes me want to hit myself in the face with a giant animated hammer.
 
Haha oh wow.
Why hit yourself in the face with a hammer when you should rightly drive down there and hit some of these kids with the hammer, couldn't make them any stupider.
 
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