Atheism : Love it or Leave it? - Part 2

[Dark Sentinel]

Then you're not a Christian. You're something else.

I dont want to get into an argument over this, just wanted to state my point.

But look, Christ did say that He was the one true way to salvation by dint of being God's son. I believe that in my heart. However, He also said to love your enemies as well.

So let's take a look at that word, "enemy"..it translates as someone who opposes you. Well, as a Christian, if Christ is the only way to salvation, then those who follow another religion or no religion at all or an alternative lifestyle oppose me (maybe not directly, but you get the point). So I have to love them just as much as I love my fellow believers, but not bash them over the head with Bible verses everytime we cross paths. All I can do is be an example of Christ on earth while I'm here. Plain and simple.

We're all just travelers on the same plane. We're trying to get to the same point, but we take different journeys and in different lanes.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Do you realize how patronizing that is?

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Do you realize how patronizing that is?

Do you realize how oxymoronic your F4 handle is when you put three cap shields at the end of every post?!

I know it's a weird point of view, trust me. But I choose to live in the world and not be of it. I have a natural distrust of organized religion so not many Christians would agree with me. It's why I left the church I grew up in.

 

[Franklin Richards]

But you do believe that Christ is the only way to Heaven? That Gandhi is in Hell right now and Hitler is dwelling in the lowest level of Heaven? That morals ultimately have nothing to do with it as long as you are washed clean with the Blood of Christ?


If that is the case, then the answer to my first question is that you don't resolve that Christianity is exclusive. You just accept it and walk amongst us little people and hope that your shining example will lead us to Jesus.

Sounds evil to me.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

But you do believe that Christ is the only way to Heaven? That Gandhi is in Hell right now and Hitler is dwelling in the lowest level of Heaven? That morals ultimately have nothing to do with it as long as you are washed clean with the Blood of Christ?


If that is the case, then the answer to my first question is that you don't resolve that Christianity is exclusive. You just accept it and walk amongst us little people and hope that your shining example will lead us to Jesus.

Sounds evil to me.

Actually, I DID say that belief in Christ is exclusive to salvation. I do believe that, and yes unfortunately though Ghandhi was a great man he is probably in hell, but at the same time who am I to judge anything or anyone for that matter? The real evil would be me trying to force my beliefs on others, rather than be your friend and be that person that you can chill out with when your world is being torn apart for whatever reasons.

I don't walk around all high and mighty as if I'm better than anyone else, man. Because I'm not. No one is perfect, which is why I hold true to my belief that, as YOU put it, being washed clean with the blood of Christ is what makes you perfect in God's eyes.

Whatever your beliefs are, Franklin, I will respect them because dude at the end of the day we have something in common:


We're ****ing NERDS man

 

[Franklin Richards]

Of course. And I hope you don't take any of my criticisms of Christianity personally.


"You people" need to watch more Star Trek.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Of course. And I hope you don't take any of my criticisms of Christianity personally.


"You people" need to watch more Star Trek.

And "you people" need to read more LOTR t:

 

[Franklin Richards]

Nah. Narnia would be more appropriate.

 

[SuperFerret]

Then you're not a Christian. You're something else.

I've never understood this position. Why such a narrow definition?

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Nah. Narnia would be more appropriate.

Bwahahaha..their both Inklings

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I've never understood this position. Why such a narrow definition?

It's long and convoluted. I tend to describe organized religion using Captain Jack's "cuttlefish" analogy

 

[redhawk23]

So people can do a great amount of good in the world, but if they don't accept Christ they are "probably in hell?" I'm not even speaking specficially about Ghandi, just as general policy. Its one thing to remain civil to those you disagree with, to even befriend them. But then deep down you feel that not only that they are wrong, but that unless they join your side of the arguement that they are damned to eternal torment? Really? I'm not bashing on anyones beliefs, I am simply stating that on a fundamental level, I cannot understand them.


Also, not only is Jesus's supposed birthday co-opted from earlier religions and legends, but so are many of the events throughout his life.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I've never understood this position. Why such a narrow definition?

It's a self defined term. Sort of the reason that all the other Christians don't recognize Mormons as Christians.

Hell, Protestants barely recognize Catholics. But they kinda have too.


I know you wanna be contrarian, SF, but at it's core, Christianity's philosophy is that only through the blood of Christ can you reach salvation. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. It's kinda required.


Not my fault.

 

[SuperFerret]

This is religion we're talking about, nothing's required.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

So people can do a great amount of good in the world, but if they don't accept Christ they are "probably in hell?" I'm not even speaking specficially about Ghandi, just as general policy. Its one thing to remain civil to those you disagree with, to even befriend them. But then deep down you feel that not only that they are wrong, but that unless they join your side of the arguement that they are damned to eternal torment? Really? I'm not bashing on anyones beliefs, I am simply stating that on a fundamental level, I cannot understand them.


Also, not only is Jesus's supposed birthday co-opted from earlier religions and legends, but so are many of the events throughout his life.

That's just my point, it's NOT an argument for me. And yes, because of my beliefs I know that many great people who've done many great things are likely in hell. And that sincerely hurts me. But like I said before, I cannot force anyone to "my side" because it's not my place to. All I can do is put myself out there and hope for the best.

As far as Jesus goes, He was an actual historical figure in Roman-era Palistine. That much is certain.

 

[Franklin Richards]

To be a Christian, you HAVE to accept Jesus as your personal savior.

 

[SuperFerret]

To be a Christian, you HAVE to accept Jesus as your personal savior.

Yeah, hence Christian, but anything else is extraneous. I'm not going to look through the bible and take it all at face value, I know about human nature and how corrupt good things get when organized, so I have to sift out the bull**** added in there to control people, which the whole "join our club or go to hell" stuff just flat out screams it is.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Then it's not faith or religion to you. It's philosophy.


Do you believe the "magic" in the Bible or do you think it was just added as metaphors and parables?

 

[SuperFerret]

Depends on the instance, but the Bible pretty much says that the new Testament at least shouldn't be taken as literally as some take it. I do believe in what people could call "magic" though.

 

[redhawk23]

That's just my point, it's NOT an argument for me. And yes, because of my beliefs I know that many great people who've done many great things are likely in hell. And that sincerely hurts me. But like I said before, I cannot force anyone to "my side" because it's not my place to. All I can do is put myself out there and hope for the best.

As far as Jesus goes, He was an actual historical figure in Roman-era Palistine. That much is certain.

I know that its not a matter of argument for you. You've made your belief on the matter clear. I do ask on what basis upon which do you take this fairly hardlined stance.

 

[redhawk23]

Yeah, hence Christian, but anything else is extraneous. I'm not going to look through the bible and take it all at face value, I know about human nature and how corrupt good things get when organized, so I have to sift out the bull**** added in there to control people, which the whole "join our club or go to hell" stuff just flat out screams it is.

Super Ferret, you have shown many times that you do apply critical thought on the matter. I may disagree with your conclusions, but I do find your stance refreshing and respectable.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I know that its not a matter of argument for you. You've made your belief on the matter clear. I do ask on what basis upon which do you take this fairly hardlined stance.

Ah gotcha. Well I just know what I've felt in my heart is all. Yes I was raised in a Christian home but nonetheless I came to my beliefs on my own terms and I stand by them.

 

[DBryan]

How do you know Christianity is the correct religion?

Is a God that condemns non-Christians to hell a moral God?

Jesus was likely a real person.

HP Lovecraft was a real person.

Therefore, possibility Cthulhu exists?

If Cthulhu eats souls, and the God of Abraham condemns millions, actually, billions of people to hell, then surely God is no better than Cthulhu.

 

[Calvin]

yes unfortunately though Ghandhi was a great man he is probably in hell

Jesus christ. Yeah, that really makes me think this religion thing is a good idea!

 

[redhawk23]

How do you know Christianity is the correct religion?

Is a God that condemns non-Christians to hell a moral God?

Jesus was likely a real person.

HP Lovecraft was a real person.

Therefore, possibility Cthulhu exists?

If Cthulhu eats souls, and the God of Abraham condemns millions, actually, billions of people to hell, then surely God is no better than Cthulhu.

Your Lovecraft arguements are facetious and add little to the discussion.

Whatever your beliefs on the matter of the bible, Lovecraft's writings were never intended to be taken as true. They are fictional stories from 1930's pulp magazines.

Regardless of their factual validity, the stories of the bible and the lessons that they teach metaphorically or directly have formed the backbone of western civilization for centuries. That you cannot deny. Meanwhile I never had an English teacher until my first year of college who had ever even heard of Lovecraft.

Even taking both as works of fiction, one can make a rating of the validity of insight and the relative importance to our culture.