Atheism: Love it or Leave it? - Part 3

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8wid said:
^Not unless it is worn in a manner that can be deemed a hate crime like in Europe for example. There is specific criteria for what that means.

Rescuing the Bible From Christians
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The problem with the concept of a hate crime is someone has to deem what is and what isn't, so it's instantly subjective and therefore ********. People should be able to say whatever they want and worship however they want as long as they are not physically harming anyone or infringing those same rights. Wanting to limit that makes you as bad as the religious zealots we can't stand and turns begins to turn atheism into a religion itself.
 
cryptic name said:
The problem with the concept of a hate crime is someone has to deem what is and what isn't, so it's instantly subjective and therefore ********. People should be able to say whatever they want and worship however they want as long as they are not physically harming anyone or infringing those same rights. Wanting to limit that makes you as bad as the religious zealots we can't stand and turns begins to turn atheism into a religion itself.
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I agree. I'm against the whole concept of a hate crime. Chances are if you commit premeditated murder its a hate crime in essence or you wouldn't have planned to kill them.

The WHY shouldn't play into it other than to establish motive or lack thereof. If you kill or harm someone then you kill or harm them. The why should be irrelevant for sentencing. Its to subjective.
 
Sigh, just had a big argument with an old friend about atheism and theism. SMH. Did not go well. I didn't want to discuss it. She prodded. I foolishly indulged her and it went down hill from there. She got loud and I got loud; I don't know why I got loud with her, I'm usually more mindful than to stoop anyone's level like that. What's that Nietzsche quote about gazing into the abyss? I don't know how she engaged me so easily. My other friend just had his face in his palm the entire time.
 
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What were the specifics? She was peeved at you for being atheist?
 
I love where I live.

I'm working behind the bar on a friday night, and I ask these two random old gents 'Are you guys religious?' they both so 'No way, absolutely atheist'. These guys are in their 50s/60s. They both come from Roman Catholic backgrounds.

I dunno why, but it just makes me really happy to hear that.
 
My thoughts on religion can be summed up in this quote...

"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness."
 
What were the specifics? She was peeved at you for being atheist?
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I hope not. My other friend made a comment to the effect that this may have been the case. Emphasis on maybe, and I hope he was joking. He said something to the effect that she did not like me before the conversation took place. If it turns out she never liked me ever, then I don't see why she ever pretended to; though I never got the feeling that she was. Not until we recently found each other on FaceBook and she learned that I was an atheist. Ever since then she's been more distant with me, however, I chalked that up to us not having been around each other for so long. I still think this is the case, and perhaps she just didn't like me for some other reason. Maybe I've changed in another way I don't realize. Maybe she changed more than I realized. Or both.

Whatever the mindset she had before the conversation, I should have ended the discussion when I had to assure her there's a passage in Genesis that says God made man in his image (I still don't get how even that was an issue), but mostly it had to do with me questioning her on how much research she's actually put into evolutionary theory, which also came up, and the quality of what it is she researched. Of which she cites a documentary she saw a while back that mentioned missing links. There was a lot discussed besides this, but my questioning her on not double checking the documentary's credentials was the point where she began to get loud and then I got loud.
 
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I asked her if she knew the majority of scientists accept evolutionary theory. I asked her if she also questioned the evidence forensic examiners use to convict suspects for crimes that weren't seen (one of her points being; you can't prove what was never seen.) But it didn't matter. She already made up her mind. Pretty much she wanted the conversation to be about just me "opening my eyes" to the sinful nature of atheism and the blatant lie evolution is.
 
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Hopeful, I think I posted this link before. Reading your post made me think of it.

http://contenderministries.org/UN/gaia.php

Basically a Christian hating Gaia and Pagans back in 2002. >_<. typed in "Gaia Pagan" into Google...first link on first page. I'm like "Why you choosing hateful links Google right off the bat?"

So, anyway, the two older guys. Did you ask them why they left Roman Catholicism and became Athiests?
 
enterthemadness said:
Hopeful, I think I posted this link before. Reading your post made me think of it.

http://contenderministries.org/UN/gaia.php

Basically a Christian hating Gaia and Pagans back in 2002. >_<. typed in "Gaia Pagan" into Google...first link on first page. I'm like "Why you choosing hateful links Google right off the bat?"

So, anyway, the two older guys. Did you ask them why they left Roman Catholicism and became Athiests?
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:funny: That link was good for a laugh.

I just can't take illogical rants like that seriously at all.

To your question, I don't know why they left no. I have no idea why so many people I know are atheists, from all ages. Or why religion has seemingly lost it's grip on this country IMO.

I'm just really happy about it :)
 
Religion is still powerful in the South, well Christiantly.

I think there's a Roman Catholic school/Church here. I dunno. It's on side of highway...hardly pay attention to it. Kinda like I never knew til last year I've lived next to or within minutes of a Mormon Church. Always thought it was um, Catholic. Guess I fail at reading...

I love Athiests as well. Easy to talk to, get along, smart, not hateful.
 
enterthemadness said:
Religion is still powerful in the South, well Christiantly.

I think there's a Roman Catholic school/Church here. I dunno. It's on side of highway...hardly pay attention to it. Kinda like I never knew til last year I've lived next to or within minutes of a Mormon Church. Always thought it was um, Catholic. Guess I fail at reading...

I love Athiests as well. Easy to talk to, get along, smart, not hateful.
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I meant over here in the UK.

I know there are plenty of places in America where being an atheist is something you'd have to hide, but there is just no fear of that for me. I'm an atheist loud and proud. And I find that 90% of the people I meet aren't religious and maybe 70% of those don't believe in God at all.

I'm just really grateful. I can't imagine how horrible it must feel to be an atheist surrounded by religious fanatics.
 
I always forget you live in the UK.

I imagine it's pretty horrible. It's easier if you are famous, like that Penn guy. I like the South, even though I joke about the South and North, but I do wish the South was more accepting.
 
Sloth7d said:
I asked her if she knew the majority of scientists accept evolutionary theory. I asked her if she also questioned the evidence forensic examiners use to convict suspects for crimes that weren't seen (one of her points being; you can't prove what was never seen.) But it didn't matter. She already made up her mind. Pretty much she wanted the conversation to be about just me "opening my eyes" to the sinful nature of atheism and the blatant lie evolution is.
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I'm so sorry, arguments of this nature with friends can be difficult. I've been there with someone who I call best friend, 25 years we've known each other. When I tried to tell her who I am, she freaked. I still call her best friend we just avoid the topic of religion. In my own experience I have learned not to bother trying to explain science. No matter how much hard core evidence you present, they ignore it. IMO anyone who believes they know the absolute truth, without absolute evidence in an extreme manner are the ones I avoid such conversations with.

I wish you the best. :)
 
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Thought I'd add that I live in the "deep south", being different around here is most difficult at times. :(
 
mara said:
Thought I'd add that I live in the "deep south", being different around here is most difficult at times. :(
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Yep. Live in NC. Not exactly...friendly to non-Christians. Dunno how people feel about Jewish people here. I think they're cool, just different religion from me is all.

Did anyone hear read or hear about the Athiest who got donations from Christians & was shocked about it?
 
enterthemadness said:
Yep. Live in NC. Not exactly...friendly to non-Christians. Dunno how people feel about Jewish people here. I think they're cool, just different religion from me is all.

Did anyone hear read or hear about the Athiest who got donations from Christians & was shocked about it?
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I don't think so...tell me story. :yay:
 
mara said:
Wow. Interesting. This is how all of humanity should behave, pull together and help each other. After all, all we have is each other. :)
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Nah, can't have that.


[YT]-ROTzn4L3M8[/YT]
 
mara said:
I'm so sorry, arguments of this nature with friends can be difficult. I've been there with someone who I call best friend, 25 years we've known each other. When I tried to tell her who I am, she freaked. I still call her best friend we just avoid the topic of religion. In my own experience I have learned not to bother trying to explain science. No matter how much hard core evidence you present, they ignore it. IMO anyone who believes they know the absolute truth, without absolute evidence in an extreme manner are the ones I avoid such conversations with.

I wish you the best. :)
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Thank you, mara. I still want to believe she just didn't like me rather than not like my atheism. For the most part, this has been the first time my disbelief ever caused any problems with people I know; I usually know which of my Christian and Muslim friends I can and can't talk to about this stuff. Well, actually, I DID know I couldn't discuss it with her. That's why I'm kicking myself for engaging her. Our conversation completely killed the mood, and my other friend posted on FaceBook that it ruined his night out. Really, that's what I feel most guilty about.
 
I've asked this to some before...but say we were somehow able to prove/show/discover that that there really is no God.

Would that mean that we would abolish all churches, or anything associated with religion? Or would they immediately become the stuff of folklore and mythology? What would all the priests, and bishops, and misters, and monks, and nuns, and etc. suddenly do with their lives?

Would we suddenly abandon much of morality or our concepts of altruism now that we knew that a presupposed supernatural intelligent designer/provider didn't actually exist? Would we be like chickens with our heads removed?

On the flip side...what if we could prove that God exists? Would those who weren't religious have to become religious, go to church, pray, change their minds over what they disagree with in scripture and so on for fear of being punished or damned? And what if it turned out that the Islamic version of God and his teachings were the 'right' one...would we all become Muslims, or require our women to be covered from head to toe?

Honestly, I'm often pretty glad that we don't know for sure...we may be better off never knowing for sure.
 
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