Bad Robot/Jonathan Nolan Bringing "Westworld" to HBO - Part 1

[Dr Lee]

I found it fun... It wasn't Haha fun, but it was fun.

 

[DyeLorean]

I found it fun... It wasn't Haha fun, but it was fun.

I wasn't entertained by it, that's what I probably mean. I was mostly confused and completely detached from the story and the characters.

 

[Dr Lee]

I liked that it was confusing.... it made me think about things...

 

[DyeLorean]

I liked that it was confusing.... it made me think about things...

I'm glad you liked it, I'm envious about it because I wanted to like it. But for me it wasn't "good" confusion, like a puzzle you have to solve. It was the type of confusion were they give you the pieces but the image that you have to put together keeps changing, and changes sizes and whatever you had just doesn't fit together anymore. It stopped being fun and became frustrating.

 

[Grommers]

What a ride - Just finished episode 10..and although, I never felt the first season "fun" i never thought it was meant to be fun. I thought this was supposed to bring light the intricacies of being a human - and how this affects us, and make us question our self-belief.

That in itself is fun, because it lets you re-invent yourself, it lets you...build a new you. And that is the fun. Creationism, first season was about teaching us to respect it, second season is supposed to teach us the never ending struggle of doing that, and how many issues run into that.

I really dont know what I should take from this season, but I can tell its nothing negative.

10/10. 10.5 if that was really tessas butt.

 

[Man in the Suit]

I loved season 2, probably more than the first season. I didn't think it was confusing at all. It was pretty straightforward because the dialogue and Bernard's glasses told you when it was.

 

[harlequinade]

From Indiewire: ‘Westworld’ Is Killing the Same Characters So Many Times, It’s Actually Killing Itself



That part sums up this second season for me. I was still able to enjoy it and I'll definitely be watching the third season, but this season was unnecessarily confusing. I hope for the third season they focus on making a more entertaining season with more relatable characters, instead of just trying to outsmart the audience.

also - where is the heart? I mean other than Maeve and confused Bernard?

Spoiler

Spoiler

And now Teddy's gone

? :/ The lack of well developed character that a person can root for is my big problem here. Stubbs was nice, given his reaction to what was done to Abernathy

Spoiler

but now I'm not sure what he is

 

[Flash525]

Was William's identity ever actually revealed here? We did see him in that virtual world (with Host Logan), didn't we? I liked this season, though I prefer Season 1 (there was more mystery behind it, and the twists were more emotional than sudden shock).

Really not sure about who is, and who isn't dead either. The likes of Teddy, Maeve, Ford; they've all got potential to return, but at he same time, their arcs are also kinda' concluded.

Spoiler

...is the security guy a host, too?

Hobbs? It was certainly implied, yeah, though I'm slightly baffled as to whether he knows (he is) or whether he's just following his programming.

Ha! Dolores is Charlotte and so can you! This might be the only time it's ever acceptable to say that Evan Rachel Wood is inside Tessa Thompson.

t:

Delores as Hale took 5 (maybe only 4, if the key/her father was 1) “brains”.

Teddy is for sure one... just confused on the other 3-4.

• Brain #1 - Bernard
• Brain #2 - Maeve
• Brain #3 - William (or) Emily (the latter to use against William)
• Brain #4 - Teddy(?); just because someone is in the other place, doesn't mean they must stay there.
• Brain #5 - Ford(?)

Were they not expecting a 3rd season? That would’ve been a fine series ender. The timelines hurt my brain.

Question -

Spoiler

If Dolores created a new Dolores body back for her, then whose consciousness is inside Charlotte’s? Would be funny if it’s Teddy.

I doubt it's Teddy. It's more likely either just another Dolores copy, or it's some sort of default AI at the moment (that'll no doubt evolve into a whole new personality next season).

 

[harlequinade]

https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/8tr8jc/nice_lamp/


...and it's in library of all places:P

 

[Flash525]

It does make me wonder what's also next for Season 3 and beyond, because there's not a whole lot of 'Westworld' that's going to take place moving forward, instead it'll be 'The Real World'.

I figure we're going to have two groups of hosts at some point too - we'll have Dolores and her followers, hell bent on erasing humanity from existence, and then we'll have Bernard's group who'll be trying to coexist with humanity whilst also attempting to stop Dolores' genocidal plans.

Lets hope that Dolores doesn't copy some General who has Nuclear Launch codes. It'll be Skynet all over again.

 

[harlequinade]

The truth is

Spoiler

Valkyrie's Infinity Stones

can be whoever the writers will want them to be They can bring anyone back now and that's not very strong writing


I don't think

Spoiler

Emily is one of them. Dolores doesn't need actual Emily clone to torture William, just someone who looks like her

.

 

[elgaz]

Interesting finale.

Spoiler

The end credits scene was very curious. According to Lisa Joy, it's set in the far, far future. So is it safe to say that the hosts eventually ended up decimating the real world? And MIB we see here has to be a host as the real one couldn't have survived that long given his age - yet he is dressed the same and has the same hand injury that the real MIB sustained in the finale, in current time. So was a copy of MIB made as he entered the forge?

 

[Flash525]

Spoiler

The end credits scene was very curious. According to Lisa Joy, it's set in the far, far future. So is it safe to say that the hosts eventually ended up decimating the real world? And MIB we see here has to be a host as the real one couldn't have survived that long given his age - yet he is dressed the same and has the same hand injury that the real MIB sustained in the finale, in current time. So was a copy of MIB made as he entered the forge?

If I'm right, and if what's suggested is right, then we haven't actually seen William [in the future] yet; the scenes between [host] Hayle, Dolores & Bernard may be in the distant future, but the scenes in Westworld can't have been that far into the future, else everyone would have aged.

Maybe S3 will be about the few remaining humans trying to survive in a world full of hosts? Maybe the hosts will play out a Big Brother scenario where real people live in the host version of Westworld, and hosts use people for their leisure?

 

[BatLand]

I'm gonna put this all in spoiler tags if someone's not seen the whole thing yet:

Spoiler

We can pretty much assume Teddy is not one of the spheres Dolores took. She uploaded Teddy into The Valley Beyond, 'cause that's the one place he'll be able to rest. She regretted "driving him away" and wanted him to find peace in the one place Teddy can: The Valley.

Won't be Ford 'cause Fords orb was red.

Maeve is one, I'm pretty certain. We saw someone in host-Hales body, I'm thinking either that's Maeve or one of her companions, maybe Armistice.

Bernard was obviously one.

The Emily in the main timeline, the one William killed, was the real Emily so not her. I think she might have taken Maeve and her band, just for the show to keep them on. So Hector and Armistice at least, perhaps the archer-girl from Shogun world, though I don't know why she'd do it. She didn't have a relationship with them but could be just for the writers to keep them in the next season. And they're fighters, she needs fighters in the war against humanity.

The post-credits scene: As Lisa Joy has said, it takes place in a "far, far future". Now, the William we see on the beach is the real William. He never went down the elevator, they found him at the door to the Forge. The William in the post-credits is a host doing a fidelity test (and the one in the elevator all along). They've been making him go through the whole uprising again and again. Delos's test always took him to the same place: the conversation with Logan. Williams test has to be done in the park, because the park is where he is his true self. The test is to see if he makes the same decisions as the real William: kills his daughter etc.

 

[Kaleb]

I'm gonna put this all in spoiler tags if someone's not seen the whole thing yet:

Spoiler

We can pretty much assume Teddy is not one of the spheres Dolores took. She uploaded Teddy into The Valley Beyond, 'cause that's the one place he'll be able to rest. She regretted "driving him away" and wanted him to find peace in the one place Teddy can: The Valley.

Won't be Ford 'cause Fords orb was red.

Maeve is one, I'm pretty certain. We saw someone in host-Hales body, I'm thinking either that's Maeve or one of her companions, maybe Armistice.

Bernard was obviously one.

The Emily in the main timeline, the one William killed, was the real Emily so not her. I think she might have taken Maeve and her band, just for the show to keep them on. So Hector and Armistice at least, perhaps the archer-girl from Shogun world, though I don't know why she'd do it. She didn't have a relationship with them but could be just for the writers to keep them in the next season. And they're fighters, she needs fighters in the war against humanity.

The post-credits scene: As Lisa Joy has said, it takes place in a "far, far future". Now, the William we see on the beach is the real William. He never went down the elevator, they found him at the door to the Forge. The William in the post-credits is a host doing a fidelity test (and the one in the elevator all along). They've been making him go through the whole uprising again and again. Delos's test always took him to the same place: the conversation with Logan. Williams test has to be done in the park, because the park is where he is his true self. The test is to see if he makes the same decisions as the real William: kills his daughter etc.

[BLACKOUT]I'm willing to bet it's Angela currently in Host Hale's body[/BLACKOUT]

 

[dark_b]

Maeve was searching for her daughter in westworld. why did they walk from westworld into Shogun?

 

[Tony Stark]

My theory on William post credit scene:

Spoiler

He's not a host, the whole thing is a hallucination on his part. The question constantly being asked is "what is real". He first asks this in season 1 to Angela in the hub, where she answers "if you can't tell the difference does it matter". He then repeats Angela's line to the Delos host when he realizes he's not in California.

The reason why Delos has failed in making a host from a human print was that at some point the human mind would reject reality. This is what I believe William has done at the end of season 2. He has rejected reality. He has spent so much of his life at the park, the lines between what is real and what is not has blurred. He killed his real human daughter because he could accept the fact that she was real. He then starts to believe that he is a host, he cuts into his forearm to find his hardwire, but is unsuccessful finding it.

When he enters the forge, everything he sees is subject of his own imagination. His daughter cannot be a host, because we've been told outright that humans cannot be copied as hosts. Bernard was the exception because Delores violated the fidelity protocol in purposely making Bernard different from Arnold. You can see that William already believes he's in the system, but his imagined daughter tells him he's not, but feeds his own hallucinations in telling him he's done all of this before and she is there to provide his fidelity base test.

We also see that with Bernard that he too is capable of self delusion, in believing he can see Ford, even though he deleted all the code associated with him. He then has a self realization that he has imagined Ford. He accepts reality and embraces that it was he who rebuilt Delores and had Hale killed.

There is an overall allegory showing that it's the hosts who reject the fantasy of their surroundings and want to embrace reality. Delores says this as she refuses to enter the valley beyond as it's just another layer of fantasy. She wants the real world because "that which is real is irreplaceable."

The humans however want to embrace the fantasy. William is the key to this as he initially goes to the park in season 1 a skeptic. But he finds what he believes to be his true self and he embraces it at the cost of his wife and daughter. He wants to embrace fantasy, he is fascinated with Ford's puzzle and wants to know the answer and he loses himself in the park. It ends with him killing his daughter his last tie to the real world and he has fully embraced fantasy. He can no longer accept reality so he creates his own reality in his mind.

No William is not a host, he cannot be. They have flat out stated it's impossible for a human to become a host. Bernard is different because he is not Arnold. He has accepted the fact that he was created by Ford. He has broken fidelity he is different from Arnold, because Delores made sure his baseline was altered.

 

[_Superman_]

The producers already answered the William theory.

Spoiler

They said he was not a host but more or less has been in that world for so long he can't tell what's real anymore

 

[kvz5]

[BLACKOUT]I'm willing to bet it's Angela currently in Host Hale's body[/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

It’s maybe her or Clementine but didn’t Angela explode? Would Dolores be even able to extract her sphere?

Maeve seems poised to be revived by the two technicians.

 

[Ozbridge]

This season is so convoluted with the scenes jumping all over the timeline and supposed plot twists that I don't even understand why they're plot twists. It reminds me of a quote from Doctor Who's Steven Moffat, which is along the line of "Doctor Who is simple enough for adult and complicated enough for children", multiply by a dozen times.

Granted I only watched each episodes about twice, but if a viewer needs to rewatch it multiple times and browse the internet to understand what just happens then it's probably not very sustainable.

 

[harlequinade]

Was Dolores

Spoiler

saying she created Bernard supposed to be a twist or something? Because it was just...there. She said that and I was like 'OK...so?'

They really need to chill with the reveals and develop the characters so that the audience actually likes them/finds them interesting and they aren't robots that can just get reprogrammed and lose their personality like Teddy or Clem

 

[Man in the Suit]

Maeve was searching for her daughter in westworld. why did they walk from westworld into Shogun?

Lee Sizemore got lost. He thought they were in the Klondike narrative which is 3 or 4 sectors east of the Homesteads.

Was Dolores

Spoiler

saying she created Bernard supposed to be a twist or something? Because it was just...there. She said that and I was like 'OK...so?'

They really need to chill with the reveals and develop the characters so that the audience actually likes them/finds them interesting and they aren't robots that can just get reprogrammed and lose their personality like Teddy or Clem

No, we knew this already when Ford told Bernard in 2x07. She built him in The Cradle because she knew Arnold better than anyone.

 

[Brutikus]

I figure we're going to have two groups of hosts at some point too - we'll have Dolores and her followers, hell bent on erasing humanity from existence, and then we'll have Bernard's group who'll be trying to coexist with humanity whilst also attempting to stop Dolores' genocidal plans.

If so Dolores will be Magneto and Bernard Prof X.

 

[Tony Stark]

The producers already answered the William theory.

Spoiler

They said he was not a host but more or less has been in that world for so long he can't tell what's real anymore

Bingo!

 

[dark_b]

‘Westworld’ Season 2 Finale Ratings Dip 24 Percent Against Premiere

https://www.thewrap.com/westworld-season-2-finale-tv-ratings/