Bad Robot/Jonathan Nolan Bringing "Westworld" to HBO - Part 1

I approve of ending each season with Radiohead.

As for everything else? These timelines are starting to give me a headache. I loved the Charlotte reveal. The after-credits scene, not so much. I would be upset about Maeve, if I wasn't totally confident she was about to get revived. Intrigued to see where they go from here, though.
 
I approve of ending each season with Radiohead.

As for everything else? These timelines are starting to give me a headache. I loved the Charlotte reveal. The after-credits scene, not so much. I would be upset about Maeve, if I wasn't totally confident she was about to get revived. Intrigued to see where they go from here, though.

Yeah, Felix and the other guy (or maybe just Felix tbh) will see to that.

I thought the bit with Third Hemsworth at the end was interesting. For a second, I thought [blackout]they might have put Teddy in him like they put Dolores in Charlotte[/blackout], but I knew they wouldn't go back on [blackout]Teddy[/blackout]'s decision.
 
Idk, I loved it. I love shows where things are not spoonfed to the audience and there's theories and timeline gimmicks and all sorts of weird stuff. Makes it more of an experience when you have to venture to the internet to read what other people think about something.

And I don't know about the characters not being likeable enough, Maeve was pretty much the hero of this season (and Bernard to some degree). Dolores was developed, just in the way not many like, but I think it was brilliant, turning Dolores into the villain of the story. I just hope they give Bernard more to do next than "I... don't understand.."
 
I didn't find anything in this season or finale too complicated. Just because something is vague, confusing and comes out of the blue like that Stubbs moment doesn't make it intricate. And I think Joy and Nolan giving the answers for things in finale in interviews is spoonfeeding the audience.
 
Idk, I loved it. I love shows where things are not spoonfed to the audience and there's theories and timeline gimmicks and all sorts of weird stuff. Makes it more of an experience when you have to venture to the internet to read what other people think about something.

And I don't know about the characters not being likeable enough, Maeve was pretty much the hero of this season (and Bernard to some degree). Dolores was developed, just in the way not many like, but I think it was brilliant, turning Dolores into the villain of the story. I just hope they give Bernard more to do next than "I... don't understand.."
Literally every actor in westworld says everything out loud for the viewer through monologue and dialoguie. :)
 
Hopkins was practically there this season JUST to tell people what was going on
 
Ford was the main drive of the first season. That character not being around in the second one left a huge hole in the narrative of the show.
 
Hope he's around in the third to do the same. :D I love Hopkins to pieces.

His performance in the first season was my favorite thing about the show even though Ed Harris is my favorite actor :) But Hopkins just made magic happen. Shame they didn't give him better material in season 2 but he elevated every single moment he was in
 
The finale is amazing but overall, I think the both season of the show is so confusing, especially the dialogue. There are some amazing lines but there are also cringey, pretentious ones. They really need to balance this.

There are also a lot of plot holes and contrivances, like if you watch it at first, you'll think it's cool but when you contemplate it and link it with other plot points, you'll find it inconsistent.
 
Only one word can describe season 2 - BLOATED.

I can't take credit for this quote (but I agree 100%) in that it hasn't been a good season when the only character I gave a damn about didn't have his backstory rolled out until Episode 8 ("Kiksuya").

Most of the season was senseless violence and Macguffin hunting. It didn't quench my thirst for existential concepts like Season 1.
 
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Just finished the finale and I need to think about it a while before I can even begin to share any thoughts.
But I do have one question that has been nagging me the entire season: in season 1 we see Stubbs being attacked by the indians, and in the episode with Emily's intro we can see that he is still a captive of them, but when and how did he get away in order for him to join the rescue team later on?
Are we to assume they let him go when they started their journey to the valley beyond or what? I'm way too tired right now to even figure out if the timeline would allow for that, considering all the time jumps they're doing.
 
Just finished the finale and I need to think about it a while before I can even begin to share any thoughts.
But I do have one question that has been nagging me the entire season: in season 1 we see Stubbs being attacked by the indians, and in the episode with Emily's intro we can see that he is still a captive of them, but when and how did he get away in order for him to join the rescue team later on?
Are we to assume they let him go when they started their journey to the valley beyond or what? I'm way too tired right now to even figure out if the timeline would allow for that, considering all the time jumps they're doing.
Ghost Nation let him go in the same episode. Akecheta told him "You live only as long as the last person who remembers you" and then they were gone.
 
Ghost Nation let him go in the same episode. Akecheta told him "You live only as long as the last person who remembers you" and then they were gone.

Oh yeah. How stupid of me. I guess that's what happens when I watch tv late at night instead of getting my sleep.
 
The producers already answered the William theory.

They said he was not a host but more or less has been in that world for so long he can't tell what's real anymore

:up:
 
By the way, how come no one thought it was odd that Bernard looked exactly like one of the park's founders?
 
By the way, how come no one thought it was odd that Bernard looked exactly like one of the park's founders?

I think the flimsy explanation for that was that not many people interacted with/remember Arnold
 
Yeah I figured it would be something silly like that.
 
I think the average employee not knowing is plausible since Arnold died decades ago, but the Delos higher ups like Hale really should have known.
 
It was a good season but I do agree that they intentionally made it confusing for the sake of it being confusing. It was really hard to keep Bernard's timelines straight. Maybe if I sat down and rewatched everything it wouldn't seem so confusing but there's no way I'm sitting through all of that again.
 
Reddit will answer it all and confuse the issue even more.
 
I don't know if this article has been posted or this line of thought discussed already but I thought it was worth a look:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/23/opinion/westworld-conscious-robots-morality.html

Kant had odd views about animals, seeing them as mere things, devoid of moral value, but he insisted on their proper treatment because of the implications for how we treat one another: “For he who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men.” We could surely say the same for the treatment of lifelike robots. Even if we could be certain that they weren’t conscious and couldn’t really suffer, their torture would very likely harm the torturer and, ultimately, the other people in his life.

This may seem like an extreme version of the worry that many have about violent video games. It has long been speculated that enacting violence in a virtual world desensitizes people to violence in the real one. The evidence for such an effect turns out to be weak. In fact, as video games have become increasingly realistic, the rate of violent crime has dropped.

But the prospect of building a place like “Westworld” is much more troubling, because the experience of harming a host isn’t merely similar to that of harming a person; it’s identical. We have no idea what repeatedly indulging such fantasies would do to us, ethically or psychologically — but there seems little reason to think that it would be good.

The argument behind Westworld's existence (the public reason, anyways) is that it allows people to vent their frustrations and desires on robots, without causing any real harm or damage. But even if the hosts weren't conscious, guests would still be damaging their sense of morality if they were to indulge in rape or murder, as our minds would not be able to differentiate violence against robots and real people.

The key thing the people at Delos are after is fidelity, which is exactly what makes this kind of psychic trauma possible. Acting on our worst impulses would inure us to it, and we would carry this new sociopathic behavior out with us into the real world (just look at what it did to William). A perfect example is that tech who turned on Maeve's pain receptors when he started to dissect her. Interacting with hosts in this way would create a breeding ground for deviant behavior.

I realize this point has largely been left behind now that the show has moved on to bigger ideas (the new reason for the park's existence), but it still plays a massive role in Delos' attempts at squashing the hosts' uprising.

Putting the issue of self awareness aside, ideally if the park were to remain active no behavior that is deemed illegal in the real world would be allowed.
 

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