BvS Batman casting thread for Man Of Steel 2 - Part 8

[slumcat]

The entire time? I guess we saw different movies. They didn't do that at all.

You're not a quitter if you move on to find a better life. A quitter would be if there was intense crime in Gotham City and he sat around doing nothing. Anytime he retired, the streets were either clean or he left the symbol to somebody else. Batman continued just not through Bruce Wayne. It's a different interpretation but it doesn't mean Bruce was a quitter. Miller Bats was more of a quitter during his 10 year absence since crime was so high and he was just drinking. Moping about a woman who you grew up with and loved, who was murdered, is a valid enough reason to mope. He's a human being after all, even if fanboys like to think Bruce Wayne is some machine.

I think he would channel that loss into even more intense crime fighting. Atleast that's what I want to see. I want to see a Batman who just NEEDS to go out and fight crime, like it's his cocaine, he needs to do it. I think such a portrayal would create an extremely complex and intriguing character and would bring his neuroses to the fore.

 

[Mysteryman]

For me, I never understood the complaints about seeing more detective skills. It would probably bore me if it was too much. As long as they show him doing detective work im fine. They just need to get the point across that he's no dummy, that he has a brain and he finds things out about criminals. Even if it's minimum, it's perfectly OK with me.

If they do more of that stuff in the reboot, that's cool but I wouldn't want too much. The story matters more, and as a film you need to drive the story forward and focus more on what Bruce is feeling rather than seeing half of the movie thrown away because the fans want to see Batman in front of a computer screen.

Is that the only way to show Batman as a detective ?
In front of a computer screen?
I would disagree with that .
There are always new ways to tell a story .

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

The entire time? I guess we saw different movies. They didn't do that at all.

You're not a quitter if you move on to find a better life. A quitter would be if there was intense crime in Gotham City and he sat around doing nothing. Anytime he retired, the streets were either clean or he left the symbol to somebody else. Batman continued just not through Bruce Wayne. It's a different interpretation but it doesn't mean Bruce was a quitter. Miller Bats was more of a quitter during his 10 year absence since crime was so high and he was just drinking. Moping about a woman who you grew up with and loved, who was murdered, is a valid enough reason to mope. He's a human being after all, even if fanboys like to think Bruce Wayne is some machine.

Right. Nolan's interpretation of Batman is very different from the comic book and DCAU versions, but he's not a quitter. Human beings have the right to retire if or when they feel the time is right.

Now, Batman, as portrayed in the comic books and animated series, wouldn't have left the game that early -- we all know that -- but this is obviously not the version we got in Nolan's films. Let's face it, the Batman of the comics is on par with super-humans; he might as well be super-human himself.

 

[Supernewbie]

I want to see a Batman who just NEEDS to go out and fight crime, like it's his cocaine, he needs to do it. I think such a portrayal would create an extremely complex and intriguing character and would bring his neuroses to the fore.

Good idea. Now I will look up actors who have played addicts for possible contenders, no kidding. I may find some worthy to play a complex Bats.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

For me, I never understood the complaints about seeing more detective skills. It would probably bore me if it was too much.

That kind of stuff never bores me. If it's done right (like on the CBS series Elementary), detective work can be highly entertaining -- unless you have a problem keeping up.

 

[slumcat]

Detective work can lend great tension and suspense to your film. I don't think its a bad thing.

The earlier Bond films were so entertaining and Bond did a lot of detective work in them.

Even a charged conversation with a person for information can be detective work and can be very compelling.

 

[Supernewbie]

That kind of stuff never bores me. If it's done right (like on CBS series Elementary), detective work can be highly entertaining -- unless you have a problem keeping up.

That's a good example. Batman doesn't need to be doing forensics or computer analysis. He can just be extremely "mindfull of his surroundings" almost to the extent of Sherlock Holmes' abilities. Batman observes and sees clues out in the field or while in action.

 

[shauner111]

That kind of stuff never bores me. If it's done right (like on CBS series Elementary), detective work can be highly entertaining -- unless you have a problem keeping up.

I can keep up just fine. I just don't like those shows because it feels too mechanical to me and takes away from human emotion in a story. In Elementary's case it's different because the guy is funny and quirky and that's why I feel entertained by it. Bruce is usually very cold and serious and I like for that stuff to be brief so they can move on to other things.

I want more detective work don't get me wrong. But I want it to be limited. Not as much as people want it to be shown. Im also not the biggest fan of Riddler, but im sure he'll be the first villain of the reboot so I bet we'll see more detective work. But it's normally not my cup of tea to see too much of it.

Right. Nolan's interpretation of Batman was very different from the comic book and animated series versions, but he's not a quitter. Human beings have the right to retire if or when they feel the time is right.

Now, Batman, as portrayed in the comic books and animated series, wouldn't have left the game that early -- we all know that -- but that's obviously not the version we got in Nolan's films. Let's face it, the Batman of the comics is on par with super-humans; he might as well be super-human himself.

The reboot probably needs to amp up batman like that so he can be on the level of Superman in some ways. But the reason why batman is constantly written as a character who goes on forever is just down to the fact that issues need to be sold.

 

[DSunny]

He's not only a great detective, he's a great strategist as well. That's the part of the character that I really want to see on the big screen for once and the part that was most absent for me with the Nolan version.

I want to believe that he's the type to plan ahead, and to make contingency plans, especially if Lex Luthor is in this movie as well. Seeing those two trying to outplan/outwit/double-cross each other would be really fun for me.

 

[Frodo]

The thing is , that the stories that Batman's appeared in on film really didn't lend themselves to detective work . We had some in TDK which was sufficient imo. You also have to remember that the detective stuff is a hold over from the pulp era from the 30's and 40's when detective novels and characters were popular and before you had the tech Batman that we know today. It works in live action for characters like Holmes and the Mentalist because that's his thing and he's exclusively solving mysteries .

In a film like MOS 2, I doubt aside from some Lex stuff and maybe Clark's identity, that we are really gonna get the detective alot of comic fans wanna see.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

That's a good example. Batman doesn't need to be doing forensics or computer analysis. He can just be extremely "mindfull of his surroundings" almost to the extent of Sherlock Holmes' abilities. Batman observes and sees clues out in the field or while in action.

He can also convey his skills while interacting with potential crime suspects. In the new animated Batman series, for example, Katana refers to Alfred in a way that piques Bruce's curiosity; and he subsequently reads her like a book.

 

[slumcat]

I sometimes feel that instead of embracing the character, Nolan tried so hard to side step his true comic book personality at every step that he ended up losing the very soul of the character. Batman himself never interested Nolan who just happened to be making Batman films. The supporting characters were always much more interesting and given better material to work with. Batman was like a supporting character in his own films, a hollow center.

I hope we don't see a repeat of any of this. We want a good Batman and good Batman films.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Detective work can lend great tension and suspense to your film. I don't think its a bad thing.

The earlier Bond films were so entertaining and Bond did a lot of detective work in them.

Even a charged conversation with a person for information can be detective work and can be very compelling.

A part of me likes mysteries more when we all know who the killer is. Then it's about about HOW the hero solves the case and his character interactions, rather than a whodunnit. In the case of MOS, we know Clark is a good guy. So watching Bruce's biases be "confirmed" would be a lot more interesting and psychological.

 

[Monicabbm]

Originally Posted by slumcat View Post
He never seemed inspired to me or posessed by an idea. He was literally just moping after a woman the entire time which I found very reductive as a portrayal. To pin the entire neurosis of such an interesting character on unrequited love seems cheesy to me.

Batman should be a possessed soul, possessed by the need to go out and get the bad guys night after night, relentlessly, without stopping. Bale's Batman was a quitter.

What? He was inspired, he wanted to save that city, becoming a symbol of hope for Gotham. Be an inspiration to people. Anyone can be inspired by the Batman to do good things. That was what he wanted.

He didn't stop because of Rachel. He stopped because the city didn't need Batman, the streets were clean. He sacrificed that symbol of hope to save that city.

I don't think his depression was just because of Rachel, was because of the project that didn't work, because he couldn't be batman ...
Why keep those devices in the Batcave? Why he kept watching the city, with access to files about criminals, security cameras ...? Alfred says, you're hoping things get worse. He was right.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I can keep up just fine. I just don't like those shows because it feels too mechanical to me and takes away from human emotion in a story. In Elementary's case it's different because the guy is funny and quirky and that's why I feel entertained by it. Bruce is usually very cold and serious and I like for that stuff to be brief so they can move on to other things.

I hear you; and I didn't mean you personally -- I just meant people in general.

The reboot probably needs to amp up batman like that so he can be on the level of Superman in some ways. But the reason why batman is constantly written as a character who goes on forever is just down to the fact that issues need to be sold.

In a way that's true, but I also think obsession is integral to his character.

 

[DSunny]

I sometimes feel that instead of embracing the character, Nolan tried so hard to side step his true comic book personality at every step that he ended up losing the very soul of the character. Batman himself never interested Nolan who just happened to be making Batman films. The supporting characters were always much more interesting and given better material to work with. Batman was like a supporting character in his own films, a hollow center.

I hope we don't see a repeat of any of this. We want a good Batman and good Batman films.

With Nolan it seems that we got much more of Batman as the symbol, and the thing for other characters to react to, instead of any truly in-depth examination of who he was as a person and the complexities of his personality.

 

[slumcat]

With Nolan it seems that we got much more of Batman as the symbol, and the thing for other characters to react to, instead of any truly in-depth examination of who he was as a person and the complexities of his personality.

Ain't that the sad truth.

 

[shauner111]

I sometimes feel that instead of embracing the character, Nolan tried so hard to side step his true comic book personality at every step that he ended up losing the very soul of the character.

Ill have to disagree with you on this. I think it was the opposite.

Batman himself never interested Nolan who just happened to be making Batman films. The supporting characters were always much more interesting and given better material to work with. Batman was like a supporting character in his own films, a hollow center.

I hope we don't see a repeat of any of this. We want a good Batman and good Batman films.

That's B.S. Nolan was definitely interested in batman. But wanted to do his take. He's allowed, it's a different medium.

I never thought the villains were more interesting. Joker was on the level. Batman was more interesting than Scarecrow. If anything they were all on the same level.

Batman certainly was not a supporting character. 2/3 of the films had Bruce at the center.

IMO I got good Batman films with Nolan. Do I want to see more? Absolutely.

The thing is , that the stories that Batman's appeared in on film really didn't lend themselves to detective work . We had some in TDK which was sufficient imo. You also have to remember that the detective stuff is a hold over from the pulp era from the 30's and 40's when detective novels and characters were popular and before you had the tech Batman that we know today. It works in live action for characters like Holmes and the Mentalist because that's his thing and he's exclusively solving mysteries .

In a film like MOS 2, I doubt aside from some Lex stuff and maybe Clark's identity, that we are really gonna get the detective alot of comic fans wanna see.

Exactly!

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I sometimes feel that instead of embracing the character, Nolan tried so hard to side step his true comic book personality at every step that he ended up losing the very soul of the character. Batman himself never interested Nolan who just happened to be making Batman films. The supporting characters were always much more interesting and given better material to work with. Batman was like a supporting character in his own films, a hollow center.

I hope we don't see a repeat of any of this. We want a good Batman and good Batman films.

I feel like Nolan was a brilliant independent mind who never felt comfortable with the superhero genre. Thus his initial attitude seems more like "what can I do to make an interesting movie character?" rather than "how can I bring this character to life?"

I felt like that mindset carried over to Goyer when writing MOS, though ironically, I feel like Snyder went out of his way to make a SUPERMAN movie. From the effects of bullets on his body, to his reaction to having superpowers, to the up, up, and away visual reference as well as the AllStar shot of Superman when in space, the film seemed to visually try to reference the source material quite a bit.

However, I feel like it's important to move away from the Singer (Let's bring prestige to the genre) mentality, and more towards the Whedon mentality (Let's embrace the material and genre). I feel like Nolan leans toward the former.

That's why I am surprisingly okay with Nolan not being a part of W/F, though I'm more concerned with the writing and storytelling of the movie.

I know that it will probably be more comic-bookish and a bit more silly than a Nolanesque film, but Snyder doesn't have to create a masterpiece. He just has to know what makes both character's TICK, and go from there. All it needs is good character interaction between both characters and decent pacing, and it will be a good movie. Having a great plot and developing the MOS saga can push it into greatness, assuming the dialog is at least good.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Watch this clip. This is the kind of Bruce Wayne I want to see in a live-action film. The way he reads Katana like an open book, that's purely the detective in him; and it's brilliant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKVHMM0rHR0

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Good exchange, though the cgi makes me

I much prefer the Young Justice/DCAU style of drawn animation.

And Alfred sounds Australian

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I think he would channel that loss into even more intense crime fighting. Atleast that's what I want to see. I want to see a Batman who just NEEDS to go out and fight crime, like it's his cocaine, he needs to do it. I think such a portrayal would create an extremely complex and intriguing character and would bring his neuroses to the fore.

That's the kind of Batman that I want too.

 

[shauner111]

The visuals of that show make me cringe. I really don't like that style. But sure, it would be cool to have that Bruce Wayne. Their Alfred sucks though. What the hell is that? Jason Statham? LOL.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Exactly. Ironically, I felt the tone in Skyfall was closer to Batman than TDK Rises, despite featuring different characters. Even if Bruce "quit" his sense of duty would way him down, I think.

 

[shauner111]

Elmayimbe is saying now that they got the Raccoon scoop, it's now time for him to get Batman next.