BvS Batman fight scenes need improvement!

[Mrs. Wayne]

Uh, the set pics of the theater are making me freak out at work. My enthusiasm for this movie just shot through the roof. Snyder really is giving a lot of attention and respect to detail here, I haven't been this psyched for a Batman film since '89.

But...It's a Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice film.

 

[Fallen Angel]

and the only person from Batman's world is himself and Alfred so far. Can't be a Batman movie if his supporting cast consists of one member.

 

[Naked Shia]

The fights in snyder movies have better choreography, and are better shot than in most us movies. I think the bext instance of a stylized, and yet well choreographed brutal fight is the intro fight between the comedian and ozy in watchmen. The ally fight is equally brutal and well choreographed.

 

[GreenKToo]

I would like for this Batman to be a master at several different martial arts, as well as a highly trained boxer and brawler.

He should be able to stand mere feet from someone and hear a conversation without them ever knowing he was there.

He should have no more trouble with a run of the mill thug than we would have with a 5 year old. He should be able to take out 7 or 8 of the normal thugs without breaking a sweat.It's the villains like the joker or bane that make him work.

His detective skills should be like sherlock holmes. I really want to see that part of him.

 

[spiderral]

^^ Yes. I was watching The Dark Knight today and Batman seemed a little slow in his movements in some scenes and still seemed to have a little difficulty in defeating thugs (even in his new Batsuit which allowed him to be more flexible). I know that there won't be much fun in watching Batman not struggle somewhat in a fistfight but I expect the fights to look exciting.

The Arkham Origins trailer is a great example of Batman showing off his great fighting skills:
[YT]9pnK8akbd2M[/YT]

 

[Batmannerism]

This is a good question

I started a thread on it a while back, so for interest's sake some of you might have a look as there were a lot of great comments and opinions put forth on this critical question - because most people strongly believe that Batman should kick ass !

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=465357&highlight=batman+fighting+style

First, there is an obvious problem for those who want to see Batman fight like he does in the Arkham games, namely that it's very hard to move like that (without the help of wires) and damn near impossible when wearing a Bat costume. Hell, Snyder's Spartans don't move that beautifully, and they're only wearing jock-straps and sandals.

I think people have to accept that there are limits on what Batman will be able to do, unless they go total CGI (which I hope they don't). Even a little extra cloth seriously limits a person's ability to kick fast or kick high (trust me on that one), so a Batsuit that looks even slightly armoured just about precludes kicks ( ironically, that's why in Batman Begins he's able to do side kicks and a couple of round-house kicks, because the costume was more like a wetsuit, whereas in TDK the segments probably seriously slowed down his legs.

Personally, there are 2 things I want to see from Bat fight scenes

1) Gadgets, more integration of Batarangs and the rest of Batman's arsenal
into his fighting method.

2) Dirty tactics, I'd like Batman to be an even dirtier fighter, and throw in some joint locks. I liked the KFM, but I think Bats needs to mix it up even more and throw in a lot dirtier tactics and techniques

In the comics, Bats does whatever he needs to, to win, short of killing.

I'd love to see Batman break more bones, be a lot more ruthless. Yes, punches are quick, and can be very effective (which makes sense when fighting a gang) but it behoves Batman to be particularly nasty,
as in kicking/stomping on knee joint, and definitely kicking some thug in the groin. The sequences in TDKR when he fights about 7 of Bane's thugs shows some reasonable tactics (stacking, shielding) but Bats needs to be
more surgical with his strikes.

I don't even mind seeing Bats eye-gouge, bite and keep the headbutts !
To be honest, he was dumb standing in front of Bane and swinging away,
I'd like to see Bats aim for his enemies weakpoints.

So that's me. But I know some want so see something more acrobatic
( like Richard Grayson as Batman) although in films its hard to do acrobatic
stuff in all that rubber. But should Batman be more matrix-kung-fu like ?
To my mind, no !

Snyder showed some very deft fight choreography in Watchmen, bordering on kung-fu, but very brutal, (the Comedian vs Ozymandias fight in the opening sequence is terrific, stylish but savage). Should Batman be a bit
more like that ?

I would want Batman to be more Ozymandias than Comedian, brutal and
technical.

Just IMO, but I have great faith in Snyder to pull it off.

cheers.

Another terrific fighting style inspiration is the work Jeff Imada did
choreographing the fights in the Bourne movies (if You haven't seen them go see Bourne Ultimatum, best fist fights EVER!) that works for both gangs, and individuals (although Bourne does fight to kill when he has to).
You see a similar style used on Jonathon Nolan's "Person of Interest" which is essentially a TV show where Batman has been split into two people,
the genius and the ass-kicker.

The underlying question here is how far Snyder should depart from Nolan's
interpretation ?

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

The fights in snyder movies have better choreography, and are better shot than in most us movies. I think the bext instance of a stylized, and yet well choreographed brutal fight is the intro fight between the comedian and ozy in watchmen. The ally fight is equally brutal and well choreographed.

Oh man, I agree. Anything Watchmen but at a PG-13 level is good for me I guess. But I LOVED the alley fight and the prison fight.

 

[Marvin]

The choreo in watchmen would be great imo.
What matters is the edit(ing). Watchmen is very much slow motion ridden and that stuff does things to the energy as well as getting detractors going.

That being said, it should be noted that Goyer is on record stating Snyder was very much against slow mo in his direction of this universe, even at Goyers own behest(with the super speed and such). I have a feeling that will continue. If so, just take any of those watchmen fights, remove the slow mo and presto.

I believe he's using the same choreographer. So we'll no doubt see some more of that mos Krav.

The funny thing is that slow mo means you get less people then complaining about not being able to see(as they did even during mos).

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I would love to see fight scenes on the level of TWS.

 

[Bathead]

This is a good question

I started a thread on it a while back, so for interest's sake some of you might have a look as there were a lot of great comments and opinions put forth on this critical question - because most people strongly believe that Batman should kick ass !

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=465357&highlight=batman+fighting+style

First, there is an obvious problem for those who want to see Batman fight like he does in the Arkham games, namely that it's very hard to move like that (without the help of wires) and damn near impossible when wearing a Bat costume. Hell, Snyder's Spartans don't move that beautifully, and they're only wearing jock-straps and sandals.
I think people have to accept that there are limits on what Batman will be able to do, unless they go total CGI (which I hope they don't). Even a little extra cloth seriously limits a person's ability to kick fast or kick high (trust me on that one), so a Batsuit that looks even slightly armoured just about precludes kicks ( ironically, that's why in Batman Begins he's able to do side kicks and a couple of round-house kicks, because the costume was more like a wetsuit, whereas in TDK the segments probably seriously slowed down his legs.

I don't know if I agree with that. I've seen way too many martial arts movies and TV shows where the fighters were wearing much heavier, bulkier and more awkward looking outfits than any Bat suit they could come up with it, and they were all able to pull off some freakishly acrobatic moves.

 

[matt47]

I think for the fight scenes they'll have a special version of the suit that easier to movie in and of course CGI the cape.
I'd love to see a scene where Batman's fighting without his cape for extra movement, especially so we can see how huge Ben's back is.

 

[storyteller]

Looking at Zack Snyders track record for fight scenes...........I aint worried. What I want to finally see is the Batsuit heavily damaged in battle(same with Superman).

 

[Marvin]

Looking at Zack Snyders track record for fight scenes...........I aint worried. What I want to finally see is the Batsuit heavily damaged in battle(same with Superman).

Agreed, suit and battle damage goes along way. Some of these films are have clued in, some haven't.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Agreed, suit and battle damage goes along way. Some of these films are have clued in, some haven't.

Oh for sure. I love a good super hero curb stomp as much as the next guy. It's part of the appeal of these characters, but for live action there is a real need to add texture to the proceedings. So I for sure want to see a JLA film where the team looks taken to the edge and beyond in their big finale.

 

[tnekkralc]

I would like for this Batman to be a master at several different martial arts, as well as a highly trained boxer and brawler.

He should be able to stand mere feet from someone and hear a conversation without them ever knowing he was there.

He should have no more trouble with a run of the mill thug than we would have with a 5 year old. He should be able to take out 7 or 8 of the normal thugs without breaking a sweat.It's the villains like the joker or bane that make him work.

His detective skills should be like sherlock holmes. I really want to see that part of him.

Yes!

 

[tnekkralc]

^^ Yes. I was watching The Dark Knight today and Batman seemed a little slow in his movements in some scenes and still seemed to have a little difficulty in defeating thugs (even in his new Batsuit which allowed him to be more flexible). I know that there won't be much fun in watching Batman not struggle somewhat in a fistfight but I expect the fights to look exciting.

The Arkham Origins trailer is a great example of Batman showing off his great fighting skills:
[YT]9pnK8akbd2M[/YT]

Never seen that trailer before...awesome!

 

[tnekkralc]

And great post Batmannerism...I was just checking out your thread

 

[matt47]

Never seen that trailer before...awesome!

Whaaaaaaa? How!?! Okay, if you have yet to see that I doubt you've seen this masterpiece. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InUj9BT8KCc

 

[AnneFan]

Agreed, suit and battle damage goes along way. Some of these films are have clued in, some haven't.

Imagine if the final scene has a shredded cape ala the Arkham games. A suit barely holding together. I'd be up for it. The image of Batman's face bloodied, yet preserving against it all during B89's finale has always stuck with me.

 

[Marvin]

I would like for this Batman to be a master at several different martial arts, as well as a highly trained boxer and brawler.

He should be able to stand mere feet from someone and hear a conversation without them ever knowing he was there.

He should have no more trouble with a run of the mill thug than we would have with a 5 year old. He should be able to take out 7 or 8 of the normal thugs without breaking a sweat.It's the villains like the joker or bane that make him work.

His detective skills should be like sherlock holmes. I really want to see that part of him.

You're asking for something approaching the Batgod and I hear tell that's not to popular with some fans. I'm right there with you however.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You're asking for something approaching the Batgod and I hear tell that's not to popular with some fans. I'm right there with you however.

Batman doing stuff like that aint BatGod territory in the least. That should be more than well within his capabilities and it's what I want to see as well. That's Bat-Master stuff. That's Batman in the wheel house of Denny O'neil. I think Batman should be the the world's greatest hand to hand combatant (which is not the same as knowing EVERY martial art on the planet) and an incredible tactician. I have no problem with his improbable wisdom, being a detecting genius... That's Batman.


Judo flipping Superman, attempting to choke hold Darkseid, having a contingency plan for EVERYTHING, never being wrong, being able to create weapons on the level of Tony Stark or Reed Richards, being written so as to make every other super hero character around him look like superfluous idiots... That's BatGod, and I want none of that in live action since as a fan in every other medium, but especially in the character's home one, that is what I've gotten and frankly it's both annoying, hypocritical and boring, not to mention that while I love Batman, LOVE BATMAN, I don't feel the need to see more stories that put other DCU characters down just to prop him up or make a cool character that is already popular MORE popular and MORE cool at the expense of the rest of the line of super heroes. Please forgive the outburst Marv, I just have a problem with this BatGod thing on multiple levels, add in that BatGod has also been in tandem with the last 20 years of Batman being written as a *****e far too often... Yeah, it burns my ass a little to think that might be what we are getting from Affleck in the least. Now don't get it twisted, I want an AMAZING Bats up there, doing acrobatic and martial arts moves like nobody's business. I want him to be a Holmes level intellect. None of that has to equal the absurdities of BatGod though, and if that is the presentation we are going to get, then I fear for this DCCU as it will simply be an extension of the wrong headed strategy that's indeed made Batman the biggest money maker of super heroes across the board but has essentially made it a struggle to get any other character DC has, even Superman, some pop culture traction and similar profitability as the Dark Knight. Again... Please excuse the rant. It's a subject that grinds my gears a bit.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Agreed Krypton. I hate the Batgod. Even B:TAS and JLU had moments of it (Batman flipping Superman, or pole vaulting into Darkside). I don't want to see that Batman. Honestly, I get annoyed when I see Batman fighting in the field with the other JLA members when they're going against a threat that requires all of them, because, honestly, a villain like that could kill Batman in a blink. Unless of course Batman is wearing an Iron Man like suit. But once you introduce suits like that, you eventually come to the question of "why doesn't Batman use that all the time?" And there is no good answer to that question.

Which is why I like the slightly more grounded Batman. He doesn't have to be Nolan grounded, but early BTAS style. A Batman who is an Amazing fighter, and a Sherlock Holmes intellect, I think that's all right. I don't want something beyond that though.

 

[Jekecy]

Unless of course Batman is wearing an Iron Man like suit. But once you introduce suits like that, you eventually come to the question of "why doesn't Batman use that all the time?" And there is no good answer to that question.

More artillery and armor sacrifices mobility, efficiency, and field of vision. That's not even remotely a hard question in terms of the battlefield. You always adjust according to what's most appropriate for the field. You don't think our world's militaries account for this when they go out expecting resistance?

 

[Infinity9999x]

More artillery and armor sacrifices mobility, efficiency, and field of vision. That's not even remotely a hard question in terms of the battlefield. You always adjust according to what's most appropriate for the field. You don't think our world's militaries account for this when they go out expecting resistance?

If the guy builds a suit with allows him to fight Darkside (which he has) it doesn't matter what the Military can or can't do. He's also been seen in suits that are essentially Iron Man capabilities (mobile, flight capable, extremely powerful and resistant) etc.

Point being, once you open that door, there is no way to justify staying in a normal outfit. Now, if they keep it like it was in TDKR, a suit that is bulky, doesn't move fast, and is essentially just there to allow him strength and protection, then I'm okay with it. But, if they display that kind of suit in this film, it should be against a weakened Supes like ti was in the comic. If it isn't, Supes would destroy Bats in a suit like that.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

More artillery and armor sacrifices mobility, efficiency, and field of vision. That's not even remotely a hard question in terms of the battlefield. You always adjust according to what's most appropriate for the field. You don't think our world's militaries account for this when they go out expecting resistance?

It still is one of those questions though. If he can make a reliable Iron Man suit, then he should use it way more than half the time in his stories. It's like with the JLA transporters on the satellite. How many stories of Batman would have been two pages long if he just remembered he had access to one.

Look, Batman is amazing as a human being. Tell me he is Bruce Lee, Sherlock Holmes and James Bond combined times 10... I will agree with you. Tell me that he is AS intelligent as Lex Luthor, can build things like Tony Stark, harness the cutting edge of science like Reed Richards... No. Sorry. I can't go there. He has a genius' passing knowledge of other subjects that are not immediately germane to his war on crime, but that is where his genius is most evident. Criminology, forensics, computer science... Again, tell me that he's the master of those fields and I won't complain. Tell me that Batman is building Iron Man suits in the cave... Sorry, I have to balk at that on a number of levels.