Batman Forever hidden gem?

Discussion in 'Batman World' started by LegendAssemble, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. LegendAssemble Registered

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    I'm watching it right now. I love 1989, and every few months I watch Returns and Forever and try to find a love for them, because I really don't want to hate them. Anyway I've gotten a much better critical eye and learned more about film making since my last viewing and theres some really good things in here, had they been directed and acted differently. Hell even if someone got around to putting the score from the first two films in, it would go a long way to helping the movie. The only part I have a real problem with is Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face. I can look past the rest as camp and a homage to the 60s TV series, but I can't get past how obvious it is he A. is trying to upstage Jim Carry and B. doesn't take the character seriously at all.
     
  2. Homer J. Fong Not a golem

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    Well, Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face is one of the two major issues that stop it from being a "hidden gem." The other is the way Bruce's arc is essentially absent from the final cut. It is an underappreciated film, though, and it's a mistake to lump it in with Batman & Robin, because they're actually very different.
     
  3. LegendAssemble Registered

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    "Hidden Gem" was a poor choice of words. I meant that in sense that under this mess there is a good movie and most of the camp came in the form of one liners and the way the story was directed. I could easily see a serious, much better version of this movie, had it been in different hands.
     
  4. BrollySupersj Howard, Fine, and Howard

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    I think Batman Forever is a pretty good Batman flick, I got no issues with Jones' Two-Face, or Jim Carrey's Riddler, I thought they played both characters great. I like the Gotham that Forever brought around, a different look from Burton's dark and brooding Gotham. The city had a vibrant feel to it. I also love the decked out Batman...everything. I loved the Batcave, all the batshaped gadgets, that's the type of Batman stuff I like. Take out the nipples, and some of the camp, you got a really really good Batman film IMO.
     
  5. LegendAssemble Registered

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    I agree and take out the black light thugs. I really dislike Jones Two-Face but I think Jim Carey's Riddler could work in a serious film.
     
  6. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Batman Forever did have some good things in it. I love all of the stuff with Bruce being haunted by nightmares of the giant bat, finding the cave, his parenys funeral etc. His conversations with Dick about seeking revenge and dealing with his pain are great. Alfred has some brilliant scenes with both Bruce and Dick.

    Jim Carey was like Frank Gorshin on steroids.
     
  7. Anno_Domini Registered

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    I only loved Bruce Wayne's story and Jim Carrey's Riddler in Batman Forever. Everything else is :down, imo.
     
  8. Mace Dolex Powerful User

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    The time it came out I thought it was a great Batman movie and Val had the perfect deep voice for Batman but I didn't care for Robin or his too cool and hip earring.

    It was just years later that I realized what a departure it was from Burton's Batman, gone were the gothic cathedral buildings replaced with neon flourescent lights and naked statues.

    Jim Carrey as Riddler was passable I just didn't like his orange hair and Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face was a joke with none of the damaged psyche of the character just a laughing Joker clone.
     
  9. OutRiddled Registered

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    The best thing about this movie is the crossword puzzle sign above Edward Nygma's apartment. A nice homage to his first appearance in the comics.
     
  10. kewlmatto Registered

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    I think this is worse than Batman & Robin. Because it dares to shoehorn a couple of 'serious' scenes between the camp. The repressed memory scenes come off as disingenuous.

    People seem to be a little too kind to this film - it's hokey as hell. The cartoon sound effects during fights are actually used more than in B&R. There are more twirling neon lights. The neon lights in the first action sequence alone are enough to induce a fit. Riddler is Jim Carrey at his most unrestrained. Basically, they let him be The Mask again. He is an awful Riddler who is just desperate to appear a little Jokerish. It comes off as more camp than Frank Gorshin, and in a bad way. And Two-Face is similarly terrible - a laughing buffoon. Chase Meridian's dialogue is so incredibly bad. Her conversation with Batman is the worst innuendo ever.

    And Nygma's brainbox makes even less sense than Mr Freeze's observatory icegun. It's a pretty cheap way to make him 'intelligent'.

    I daresay Robin is the best thing about this movie...but the too-cool earring and poor costume detract. Val Kilmer does have a good voice as Batman and I like his first batsuit, but there's little redeemable about this one for me.

    Don't get me wrong, B&R is bad too. But it doesn't try to be serious, which helps. Also, even though once again it's completely unrestrained with its statues etc, Gotham looks a bit better in B&R. I find I'm kinder to the film because at least I can see it as pure camp.

    Just rewatched them both recently. Of course as a Batfan I still watch them and enjoy them to some degree...
     
  11. Elevator Man Registered

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    Though I enjoy BF in a dumb popcorn movie kind of way since '95'. Eventhough it doesn't hold up well today. I can still enjoy it for what it is. But to me the highlight of the film is Goldenthal's excellent score.
     
  12. Cassandra Cain YAS KWEEN!

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    I agree. It was as if Batman Forever was a separate Batman franchise all on its own. Batman & Robin didn't even feel like its sequel. I just re-watched Batman Forever on G4, and I actually don't think it was a bad Batman movie at all, except for the campiness of the villains and look of Gotham, of course. But I favored it's more serious moments involving Bruce Wayne and his coming back to terms with his parents' death and accepting his identity as both Bruce Wayne and Batman forever (hence the film's title). I didn't mind Robin's character; it wasn't a bad origin for him but maybe would've made a little more sense if his character had been a tad bit younger and not so hot-headed (then again, in this instance he shared characteristics of both Dick Grayson and Jason Todd). It wasn't until Batman & Robin that his character became nauseating.

    Riddler was over-the-top, but wasn't an awful villain. If only maybe it wasn't Jim Carrey trying to one up Jack Nicholson's Joker, he may have been a much more interesting villain. Totally agree with you on Two-Face though; laughably terrible.
     
  13. Mace Dolex Powerful User

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    Another thing I noticed is where Burton's Batman was done with more practical old school SFX and model work Schumacher's Batman is one loud explosion after another with a lot more CGI sets.
     
  14. Fudgie Registered

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    It's underrated. I like it better than both of Burton's movies.
     
  15. Uroboric Forms Your Move, Creep

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    Batman Forever was my first Batman movie, and watching it however many years later there are still things I like about it. I like the score, the suit (with the exception of the nipples), Jim Carrey, etc. I don't like the black hole of charisma that is Chris O'Donnell, though.
     
  16. Mr.? Registered

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    I have a love/hate relationship with this movie. I like it because it reminds me alot of my childhood because this was probably my most watched Batman film back then. I had a Batathon before TDKR came out and I tried to watch it after 89 and Returns and couldnt get through it, probably because I knew TDKR was going to be an ultra serious take on Batman and was in a mindset of wanting to see serious takes on the character. I think in the context of the entire franchise it doesnt fit because most movies about Batman have been dark but as a standalone film (How I view it) its a fun movie.

    I don't mind things that people hate about it such as Two-Face. Say what you will about Two-Face in the movie but imo he is still entertaining as hell too watch in this. Jim Carrey was good as the Riddler but could have toned it down a few notches in some scenes. I also think Kilmer is overlooked as Batman/Bruce, he did a good job with both parts imo. Chris O'Donnel is great as Robin and I love the look he gives at the end when Two-Face dies. Nicole Kidman is the sexiest she's ever been in this movie as well. The score is awesome in this as well, the main theme gets me pumped up. Thats another aspect that I think is sorely overlooked.

    One last thing:

    We would have never got this kick ass song without this movie.
     
  17. kewlmatto Registered

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    There were some pretty good songs. U2's song was my favourite for Forever.

    And I love 'End is the Beginning is the End' for the next film. Still the best song on a Batman soundtrack for me (yes, even slightly edges out the great Face to Face).
     
  18. Fudgie Registered

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    Love the U2 song. Better than any Prince song.
     
  19. kewlmatto Registered

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    The animation in the music video is good too.

    The video clip reminds me of how Forever was viewed by people at the time (and me as a kid) - it looked very 'slick' and nineties, with a more pop-punk style. Of course the film doesn't really reflect that so much anymore. It has aged very poorly.
     
  20. Homer J. Fong Not a golem

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    It does feel like a movie of its time more than the Burton movies do. I won't say it's dated, because I don't really think being dated is among its problems, but it's a bit more fixed in the '90s than the others.
     
  21. Origin Registered

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    I admit it's my second favorite after Returns in the Quadrilogy, preferring it to 89.
     
  22. OutRiddled Registered

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    If they only had cut out the lame jokes, people would -probably- appreciate it a lot more. They actually tried to visually recreate a comic book, with the colours (a common criticism) to give a pure Batman comic book movie. The over the top style was based on the comic books, also.

    I don't think it's that bad.. I also think Batman & Robin is underrated in the same way.. The same with the 60's tv show.. this was a true and accurate representation of Batman of a particular era.
     
  23. American_Hobo Registered

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    I always loved Batman Forever.
    It's actually one of my favorite movies of all time.
    People just hate the movie because they associate it with Batman and Robin.
     
  24. kewlmatto Registered

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    Hmm - some people might.

    But for me, Batman & Robin is superior. It isn't inconsistent in its tone like Forever.

    I think thematically it is all over the place, a much 'messier' film, with less coherence. A few dark moments with Val Kilmer looking sad just don't bring the movie up to scratch for me. At least Batman & Robin knows what it is. I feel like they 'lost' what Forever was meant to be during post-production. There is a decent cut of it somewhere, I'm sure.

    To each their own - I remember loving this movie as a kid and I understand the points many make in its defence, but to simplify it as always 'lumping it with B&R' is a bit of a get out of jail free card for a movie with significant flaws.
     
  25. SpiderBat Registered

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    I was 10 years old when I saw Forever and I loved it. Looking back now? It's a Batman film for kids. That's not it's intention obviously but when my little brother wants to watch a Batman movie it's always the one I turn to.

    The Robin costume was terrible, though. I don't mean the look of it, just the way it was designed.
     

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