Batman R.I.P.

[Jawn]

Yeah, I agree.

I just don't see why once DC kills someone off they have to then resurrect them. Even if Batman eventually dies, there will still be plenty of stories to tell about the period in which he was alive.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

IMO Dini deserves something, Detective has owned these last few months, everyone agrees, and the only criticism I ever hear of it is that it's not a continuous story. I say give Dini Batman after FC. C has a hard-on for Morrison, but it'd be awsome to see him given something after his exceptional work on Detective.

I've enjoyed what Dini has done on Detective, but let's not forget that he's also the architect behind the trainwreck that is Countdown. Maybe Dini is just best-suited for self-contained stories. And that's fine.

As for Morrison, I'd been frustrated by his run so far but I have to say that with the last few issues it finally looks like the loose ends are coming together, so maybe there's a method to his madness. I just hope that it doesn't culminate in Batman/Bruce Wayne getting killed. (But if Batman does die, wouldn't it seem wrong if it's anybody but be the Joker that does him in?)

 

[Jawn]

(But if Batman does die, wouldn't it seem wrong if it's anybody but be the Joker that does him in?)

That's the problem I had with Doomsday killing Supes. No Luthor involvement.

 

[RobC]

Agreed, Countdown was a mess, but my over-riding argument is that any Crisis sucks, they need to stop them. Seriously, the first one was cool and really cleared everything up, now it's getting ridiculous.

Oops, we need to clear up a minor plot point.
Well, let's just have another Crisis!
Really, you think the paying public will go for that again?
They don't have a choice in the matter!

That's what DC sound like. I should know, I was there.

 

[rpenguin]

Agreed, Countdown was a mess, but my over-riding argument is that any Crisis sucks, they need to stop them. Seriously, the first one was cool and really cleared everything up, now it's getting ridiculous.

Oops, we need to clear up a minor plot point.
Well, let's just have another Crisis!
Really, you think the paying public will go for that again?
They don't have a choice in the matter!

That's what DC sound like. I should know, I was there.

A crisis is a nod to what big stories were often called in old JLA issues. Infinite Crisis was MARKETED as a sequel to Infinite Earths.


But anyway, has anyone noticed the Luthor billboards popping up every now and then in Batman's run? Could just be a Gotham/DC thing, or more?

 

[FCEEVIPER]

With TDK coming out this Summer, DC will not kill off Wayne/Batman.

Bet on it.

 

[WolfCypher]

I'd be interested to know if Tim does replace Batman, will they tie that into the Future Titan's arcs that were done...

 

[daniPHANTOM]

I just don't see why once DC kills someone off they have to then resurrect them. Even if Batman eventually dies, there will still be plenty of stories to tell about the period in which he was alive.

That was exactly my point. And with the new movie coming out this summer, its stupid to say the least.
But as I've said, if anyone dies it'll be Bruce not Batman, in theory. Even though I still stand by "Batman with out Bruce isn't Batman. Its just a man in a rubber suit."

 

[RobC]

A crisis is a nod to what big stories were often called in old JLA issues. Infinite Crisis was MARKETED as a sequel to Infinite Earths.

What? You've just completely missed the entire point of my post.

Seriously, you could not be more wrong if you tried. If right was on this planet, you're circling the milky way somewhere.

I wasn't debating why they were called 'Crisis' or why Infinite Crisis was created. At all.

 

[Keyser Soze]

With TDK coming out this Summer, DC will not kill off Wayne/Batman.

Bet on it.

Didn't they kill off Ra's al Ghul shortly before the release of "Batman Begins"?

 

[Paladin2769]

As a matter of fact, I think Ra's was dead in the comics when BB came out. That being said though, it is a little easier to juggle a villain being dead (or missing in action) as opposed to the actual titular hero.

Captain America may be dead at the moment, with Bucky filling in for him, but make no mistake, Steve Rogers will be up and running when his movie is on the big screen. If not, it would be a big mistake. Even though they make all the money from the merchandising, the main character should be breathing and in costume when a feature film is released. But then, what do I know.

 

[RobC]

I think it's easier with R'as because he's not a publicly known villian like Joker, Two-Face, Penguin etc... They could get away with him being gone.

Killing Batman just before his biggest (and best?) movie ever? That's madness.

 

[Watson]

Didn't they kill off Ra's al Ghul shortly before the release of "Batman Begins"?

I think it's easier with R'as because he's not a publicly known villian like Joker, Two-Face, Penguin etc... They could get away with him being gone.

Killing Batman just before his biggest (and best?) movie ever? That's madness.

I second that Rob. The only way I could see him being killed would be if they had a way to bring him back quick (a la Buffy), or were planning a reboot which as far as I know they aren't.

 

[AgentGraves!]

from what I understand is...

What they are going to do is take away bruce's riches.
its sorta hinted when you read the sinops on DC.com

 

[CrimsonMist]

I had a "Batman R.I.P." idea the other day. Needs work, but i thought it was cool.

Batman kills The Joker. Just beats him to nothingness and kills him. It digs at Bruce's head over it, so he gives up being Batman, but life is much better now that he's gone. I just want to see an arch where Batman offs The Joker and how it affects him, both positively and negatively.

And in the "Sales and money don't matter" ending: But eventually, he gets too far into it. He forgets about what else is important. Not The Joker only, but crime in general. Bruce realizes this in one of several ways: Dick gets shot, Tim gets shot or Bruce himself gets shot, or witnesses a murder (ala Night Of The Stalker) by a common criminal. And he realizes that Batman is always going to be needed.

The psychological aspects intrigued me. If that idea's offended anyone, i apologize: I've been reading too much Punisher lately(Damn you, Garth Ennis! ).

And because they're going to have to do it anyway, here's the "Because we want your money" ending:

Bruce gives up being Batman because he killed The Joker. Everyone is happy. Gotham is much safer(all the second and third-rate villains are locked up for good). Bruce is enjoying life as he always wished he could, had there been no Batman. He's happy.

and then Superboy Prime punches the universe and the Joker comes back!!!!!

no...but the Joker does come back. Don't ask me how he'll do it. I haven't thought about it that hard. He just comes back. And Bruce has to give up a normal life because of it.


any thoughts?

 

[WolfCypher]

Killing Batman just before his biggest (and best?) movie ever? That's madness.

I hope this doesn't come off to some as tasteless because of the example I chose to use, but couldn't it have the opposite effect? Like how Heath Ledger's death before TDK could (and most likely will) bring in even more viewers just because of his death's timing?

 

[rpenguin]

What? You've just completely missed the entire point of my post.

Seriously, you could not be more wrong if you tried. If right was on this planet, you're circling the milky way somewhere.

I wasn't debating why they were called 'Crisis' or why Infinite Crisis was created. At all.

Haha. Christ. Stand-offish much?

You said your over-riding argument is that any crisis sucks and then you went on to imply that they were used to clear up plot points (continuity). I merely replied, informing you that Crises were used to indicate, historically, BIG events in the DCU. By pointing out that Infinite Crisis was a sequel to Infinite Earths, I addressed INFINITE CRISIS as a "plot point changer". Doing this, I indirectly stated that Identity Crisis and Final Crisis don't change any continuity. They're BIG events. They simply contain the word "crisis".

See MY point? It's kind of glaring in retrospect, isn't it? Like if being correct was tantamount to being on Earth, and you were out in the Andromeda galaxy.

 

[rpenguin]

I had a "Batman R.I.P." idea the other day. Needs work, but i thought it was cool.

Batman kills The Joker. Just beats him to nothingness and kills him. It digs at Bruce's head over it, so he gives up being Batman, but life is much better now that he's gone. I just want to see an arch where Batman offs The Joker and how it affects him, both positively and negatively.

And in the "Sales and money don't matter" ending: But eventually, he gets too far into it. He forgets about what else is important. Not The Joker only, but crime in general. Bruce realizes this in one of several ways: Dick gets shot, Tim gets shot or Bruce himself gets shot, or witnesses a murder (ala Night Of The Stalker) by a common criminal. And he realizes that Batman is always going to be needed.

The psychological aspects intrigued me. If that idea's offended anyone, i apologize: I've been reading too much Punisher lately(Damn you, Garth Ennis! ).

And because they're going to have to do it anyway, here's the "Because we want your money" ending:

Bruce gives up being Batman because he killed The Joker. Everyone is happy. Gotham is much safer(all the second and third-rate villains are locked up for good). Bruce is enjoying life as he always wished he could, had there been no Batman. He's happy.

and then Superboy Prime punches the universe and the Joker comes back!!!!!

no...but the Joker does come back. Don't ask me how he'll do it. I haven't thought about it that hard. He just comes back. And Bruce has to give up a normal life because of it.


any thoughts?

Naughty!

Sorry. I hate the idea of Joker and Batman being some sort of yin and yang. Batman and Joker shouldn't be arch enemies or have any relationship or anything. It's worse than stories of Bruce having the "bat totem spirit protecting him ooo". I really enjoyed Batman just tossing the Joker into the trash in Batman and Son. Batman and Joker should both share one obsession: crime.

 

[Kaizer]

Naughty!

Sorry. I hate the idea of Joker and Batman being some sort of yin and yang. Batman and Joker shouldn't be arch enemies or have any relationship or anything. It's worse than stories of Bruce having the "bat totem spirit protecting him ooo". I really enjoyed Batman just tossing the Joker into the trash in Batman and Son. Batman and Joker should both share one obsession: crime.

Um...you're neglecting the whole essence of their releationship the last 30+ years.

 

[rpenguin]

Um...you're neglecting the whole essence of their releationship the last 30+ years.

I'm not neglecting them, I'm just not a fan of them. A lot of different interpretations on the relationship between these two characters exist, some I like and some I don't. Nowhere is it set in stone that these two are some star-crossed enemies.

But now that I think about it, that isn't the essence of their relationship at all. I'll take a bunch of stories off the top of my head:

Laughing Fish - Joker is screwing around with Gotham/Batman stopping him
Five Way Revenge/663 - Joker killing off his old goons and reinventing himSELF/Batman stopping him (although Morrison toyed with the "can't kill my straight man, bit", but it seemed really forced and was the only weak part of that story in my opinion)
Dini's stories - in one, the joker just goes on a random rampage, the other he orchestrates a cult murder scheme//batman stops him
Killing Joke - Joker wants to crush Gordon/Batman stops him (that opening scene was awful and probably just some way for Moore to establish that the Joker's escaped, same with those "contemplative cave scenes")
Man Who Laughs - Joker attacking Gotham/Batman stopping him
a lot of classic stories - usually games with Joker challenging Batman, but it was mostly just because Joker sold copies
Going Sane - AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL :P

But yeah, they aren't dependent on each other, at least it's not set in stone. It's at the very least open to interpretation.

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

rpegniun, you have some good points. I never really got the "Batman and the Joker are opposites, just two different sides of one coin". Sorry.

 

[RobC]

I hope this doesn't come off to some as tasteless because of the example I chose to use, but couldn't it have the opposite effect? Like how Heath Ledger's death before TDK could (and most likely will) bring in even more viewers just because of his death's timing?

I can dig what you're getting at. Kind of reverse marketing, make the hype even bigger.

 

[RobC]

Haha. Christ. Stand-offish much?

You said your over-riding argument is that any crisis sucks and then you went on to imply that they were used to clear up plot points (continuity). I merely replied, informing you that Crises were used to indicate, historically, BIG events in the DCU. By pointing out that Infinite Crisis was a sequel to Infinite Earths, I addressed INFINITE CRISIS as a "plot point changer". Doing this, I indirectly stated that Identity Crisis and Final Crisis don't change any continuity. They're BIG events. They simply contain the word "crisis".

See MY point? It's kind of glaring in retrospect, isn't it? Like if being correct was tantamount to being on Earth, and you were out in the Andromeda galaxy.

Actually it doesn't, your original post about Crisis made no sense in relation to mine. At all. Admit it. I posted that no-one wanted to see another Crisis, and you gave us a history lesson...

Kind of glaring in retrospect...

 

[Finlandman]

Batman shouldn't kill anyone EVER, not even Joker.

 

[rpenguin]

Actually it doesn't, your original post about Crisis made no sense in relation to mine. At all. Admit it. I posted that no-one wanted to see another Crisis, and you gave us a history lesson...

Kind of glaring in retrospect...

AND THEN YOU CONJURED UP SOMETHING YOU THOUGHT WAS A PROBABLE MINDSET AT DC COMICS. You did TWO things!

In relation to what you were SAYING, (in case you forgot, you said no one wants senseless continuity resets all the time), I was flat out pointing out you were wrong. Identity Crisis and Final Crisis have nothing to do with changing past continuity. The history lesson merely indicated that, historically, DC doesn't use crises JUST as a RESET buttons, but for BIG EVENTS.