Batman R.I.P.

[BubbaGump]

Not to interject; but there are people who will substitute 'comic book movie' for 'graphic novel movie' out of their own insecurities. In the context of movies at least, people are trying to negate the fact they derived from comics.

Thank you. You're not a fan if you're ashamed.

And if anyone calls a single issue a graphic novel I will e-punch them in the face. Thankfully, this hasn't happened yet.

 

[Ugfugly]

I don't see the big deal, long term Batman fans know Dick Grayson to be the rightful successor to Bruce Wayne. He just won't have the same "drive" and craziness that Bruce does. Veteran comic book fans know it will all go back to normal anyways, no need for the nerd rage.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

I don't see the big deal, long term Batman fans know Dick Grayson to be the rightful successor to Bruce Wayne. He just won't have the same "drive" and craziness that Bruce does. Veteran comic book fans know it will all go back to normal anyways, no need for the nerd rage.

But that's all I have in me. t:

 

[CaptainClown]

I don't see the big deal, long term Batman fans know Dick Grayson to be the rightful successor to Bruce Wayne. He just won't have the same "drive" and craziness that Bruce does. Veteran comic book fans know it will all go back to normal anyways, no need for the nerd rage.

See, I don't really care that he is going to be the new Batman. Like you said, it is inevitable for Bruce to be replaced. However this is the Swan Song of Batman. This is where he passes down his mantle...and I just don't care. My favorite superhero and it feels like his last story is a stunt.

 

[Drz]

I guess newsrama or any site won't have any previews for the last rip?

 

[The Caped Knight]

Some people are simply resistant to the end of Bruce Wayne, and people who are less resistant to that (like myself) may question whether this story constitutes a proper end to his story.

Except why bother with ["Death Of Superman"], [A World Without Superman] kind of storyarc with Batman in the first place . When we all know at some point Bruce Wayne will Return and reclaim the mantel Of THE DARK KNIGHT.

I figured the Knightfall series already covered this type of scenario

 

[Drz]

Tbh i wouldn't mind if Bruce Wayne doesn't come back because story writers need to grow some balls and make changes, not just keep it the same and worry about the fans, if the fans are truly fans of the series, they should enjoy new changes and stories for a beter story in general. ;/

 

[Saint]

Except why bother with ["Death Of Superman"], [A World Without Superman] kind of storyarc with Batman in the first place . When we all know at some point Bruce Wayne will Return and reclaim the mantel Of THE DARK KNIGHT.

Because people like to read things that are interesting? Progression is a requirement of fiction, and this is not debatable. In comics there is always a chance that the progression of any story will be undone, but this does not mean we stop telling stories that change things. If the opposite were true, what would be the point in reading?

Furthermore, the defining characteristic of Batman is that he illustrates the most fundamental questions of humanity as a whole. Most notably, the question of how we respond to evil--or, do the ends justify the means. Another defining question is of humanity's survival. We all fundamentally desire for a part of us endure beyond our deaths. Most people do this through children, other people through other legacies. Businesses, works of art. Bruce Wayne's legacy is Batman. His story is not finished until someone picks up that legacy and keeps it alive.

The point is that even though we can expect someone to bring Bruce back eventually, it is still a fine endeavour to attempt telling this sort of story. It might stick. If it doesn't, we can only hope they make Bruce's return work well.

I figured the Knightfall series already covered this type of scenario

No, as Knightfall was not really about Batman's legacy, nor was it about ending Bruce Wayne's story. Knightfall was about examining the relationship between Bruce Wayne and Batman.

 

[bunk]

Which titles are actually required reading to understand wtf is going on? I've not been following along and I need to get caught up in all besides "Batman".

 

[CaptainClown]

Which titles are actually required reading to understand wtf is going on? I've not been following along and I need to get caught up in all besides "Batman".

From what I heard its basically most of Morrison's recent runs like Resurrection of Rah's to The Black Glove and stuff like that.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Because people like to read things that are interesting? Progression is a requirement of fiction, and this is not debatable. In comics there is always a chance that the progression of any story will be undone, but this does not mean we stop telling stories that change things. If the opposite were true, what would be the point in reading?

Furthermore, the defining characteristic of Batman is that he illustrates the most fundamental questions of humanity as a whole. Most notably, the question of how we respond to evil--or, do the ends justify the means. Another defining question is of humanity's survival. We all fundamentally desire for a part of us endure beyond our deaths. Most people do this through children, other people through other legacies. Businesses, works of art. Bruce Wayne's legacy is Batman. His story is not finished until someone picks up that legacy and keeps it alive.

The point is that even though we can expect someone to bring Bruce back eventually, it is still a fine endeavour to attempt telling this sort of story. It might stick. If it doesn't, we can only hope they make Bruce's return work well.

I get where your coming from . I really do .... However I feel this kind off storyarc has been done so many times too so many characters that the epic unique is lost . And It kinds off defeats the whole purpose of the arc when you know full well The Character will return .

They tried to pull off this same crap with Peter Parker / Spider-Man in "The Other" storyarc garbage . which failed

and just recently Steve Rogers as Captain America... Which we no full well he'll return somehow before his movie Debut in 2011 .

IMO the only character this kind of arc worked on is Superman . Because it was the original "The Death Of Superman" , "A World Without Superman" and of course "The Return Of Superman" .

 

[Saint]

I get where your coming from . I really do .... However I feel this kind off storyarc has been done so many times too so many characters that the epic unique is lost

I would certainly call this story unique.

And It kinds off defeats the whole purpose of the arc when you know full well The Character will return .

I don't see how. We know Batman is going to survive and put away the Joker (or whoever) in whatever story he's in, and the purpose of those stories aren't "defeated." If a character dies, or if some other change occurs, the objective is to make the death relevant so that even when it is undone, the ripples remain. As I said earlier: when Marvel brings Steve Rogers back from the dead, the stories we're reading now will not become obsolete. Bucky and the other characters won't revert to who they used to be. The mythos will not rewind. Bucky has evolved since Steve died, so even when he returns, the importance of his death will remain.

If Dick is Batman for twenty years and then Bruce comes back, Dick won't become the same person he is today (well, unless the writing is stupid). If he's not Batman anymore, he'll be something else. If he dies, hopefully that'll mean something in the same way Steve Roger's death meant something. I also would not be resistant to having two Batmen at once.

Personally--as I've detailed in the past--I believe and ideal situation would be for Bruce, following this event, to retire. Something occurs that has him swear off violence and try to find a way to help the world in a way that isn't at risk of being twisted by his own darkness. Make him the sort of person Leslie always tried to make him. Keep him out of the books for a couple of years, with the implication being that he is out and about finding his place in the world, and have him come back with a little grey in his hair, a little wiser, and communicate the idea that he's got no interest in becoming Batman again, that Dick has made the role his own. At this point he can serve in a Batman Beyond capacity

They tried to pull off this same crap with Peter Parker / Spider-Man in "The Other" storyarc garbage . which failed

The aim of "The Other" was not the same as this, but regardless, that one story failed does not mean all comparable attempts will fail. "The Other" failed because it was stupid, that's all.

and just recently Steve Rogers as Captain America... Which we no full well he'll return somehow before his movie Debut in 2011 .

The events in Captain America have been a wonderful success. It has consistently been one of the best books on the shelf. If you were to read it, I believe you'd get the impression, as I have, that Steve Rogers will not be coming back any time soon.

 

[Miss Webb]

I think Bruce does a brief stint as New God, then comes back 'healed'. He resumes the mantle after a time, but uses different methods and mindset.

Although, I saw the January previews showing Rhas Al Ghul with a stronger and more potent body rising from another pit. Looks like bad news for the bat...

 

[GlasgowBat]

bruce wayne's story does not need to end yet.

i have not seen any indication that the character has reached a natural conclusion, nor has the character become stale in any way as far as i can see.

it seems that grant decided he wanted to do this stroy now, regardless of wether it was the right time for the character, or wether the story had reached this stage.


i also don't think this particular story is worthy of bruce wayne's last. it's convulted and naff.

 

[Saint]

When is the right time?

 

[CrimsonMist]

When is the right time?

i think his point is that nothing in Morrison's run has really be fleshed out. Batman has a son. Ok. So what? It doesn't go anywhere. Batman is haunted by 3 mysterious Batmen. Ok. So what? It didn't go anywhere. It certainly alluded to things happening in future issues, but what happened to this possible Anti-Christ/Satan thing? And now RIP is in it's 5 issue, and nothing has really happened. Certainly things HAVE happened, but it didn't go anywhere until the middle/end of issue 4. Issue 5 started moving the story and now it's over, basically.

I dont think Morrison's run has been fleshed out enough to really have an impact. Im sure that issue 6 will certainly be jolting, but as much as it could be.

That's my problem with RIP, atleast. and those tie-ins didn't progress the story at all. Dini's tie-in was amazing, but had no reason to tie it self up with RIP. Nightwing didn't really touch on it. The Outsiders stuff has kind of. Only Robin had direct ties to RIP. With something like this, the possibilities are endless. You have FOUR other titles to expand a storyline, and no one does it.

 

[Drz]

Your making it sound like R.I.P is the end of Morrion's story while its just another story in his contuniety where we see the possible rise of Damian Wayne as Batman fightning againts the satanistic Batman.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Your making it sound like R.I.P is the end of Morrion's story while its just another story in his contuniety where we see the possible rise of Damian Wayne as Batman fightning againts the satanistic Batman.

no, what i'm saying is that things just come and go in Morrison's story. Nothing is fleshed out enough for me to care about it. To me, there's been no momentum at all that makes me anticipated to see what happens next. I buy because i'm interested, but there's no "OH BOY!" excitement to it. I'd love to see Damian Batman fighting Satan and stuff, but i just feel that right now, there's nothing to be excited about.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

no, what i'm saying is that things just come and go in Morrison's story. Nothing is fleshed out enough for me to care about it. To me, there's been no momentum at all that makes me anticipated to see what happens next. I buy because i'm interested, but there's no "OH BOY!" excitement to it. I'd love to see Damian Batman fighting Satan and stuff, but i just feel that right now, there's nothing to be excited about.

Same here.

 

[Drz]

no, what i'm saying is that things just come and go in Morrison's story. Nothing is fleshed out enough for me to care about it. To me, there's been no momentum at all that makes me anticipated to see what happens next. I buy because i'm interested, but there's no "OH BOY!" excitement to it. I'd love to see Damian Batman fighting Satan and stuff, but i just feel that right now, there's nothing to be excited about.

Well each for their own, hehe. :P I'm enjoyning Grant Morrison's run and im excited to see who Dr. Hurt turns out to be.

 

[Dark Victory]

I dunno i think its exciting that Dick would become the new Batman, i mean its about time! But we all know Bruce is gonna be back sooner or later, at the very least he'll be back by the next Batman movie. Dick as Batman should be real interesting and the dynamic with Robin (tim drake) should be interesting too as tim already looks up to him as a big brother.

Oh and BTW Batman 681 has been pushed back again, now comin the 26th nov. Jesus Morrison just give us the damn book already!

What?!!? Goddamn, I remember thinking that October 29th was a long wait.....

 

[Saint]

i think his point is that nothing in Morrison's run has really be fleshed out. Batman has a son. Ok. So what? It doesn't go anywhere. Batman is haunted by 3 mysterious Batmen. Ok. So what? It didn't go anywhere. It certainly alluded to things happening in future issues, but what happened to this possible Anti-Christ/Satan thing? And now RIP is in it's 5 issue, and nothing has really happened. Certainly things HAVE happened, but it didn't go anywhere until the middle/end of issue 4. Issue 5 started moving the story and now it's over, basically.

Everything Morrison does he does to serve a purpose--it just doesn't seem that way until he shows you what it is. See John Sublime in New X-Men.

That's my problem with RIP, atleast. and those tie-ins didn't progress the story at all. Dini's tie-in was amazing, but had no reason to tie it self up with RIP. Nightwing didn't really touch on it. The Outsiders stuff has kind of. Only Robin had direct ties to RIP. With something like this, the possibilities are endless. You have FOUR other titles to expand a storyline, and no one does it.

Personally, I prefer this approach to tie-ins, because this way I don't have to buy them. I want the main story told in the main book.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Everything Morrison does he does to serve a purpose--it just doesn't seem that way until he shows you what it is. See John Sublime in New X-Men.

I get what you're saying, but i'm not sure if i like that approach to telling the story, atleast the way Morrison's been doing it. It's kind of obnoxious.

But I'm hoping that's the case with this. I haven't dismissed RIP as absolute crap yet, but i hope it's worthwhile. If it all comes together and makes me go "Holy crap. Amazing!", then i'll retract ill-will.

Personally, I prefer this approach to tie-ins, because this way I don't have to buy them. I want the main story told in the main book.

Eh, it goes both ways. If you're gonna have tie-ins, TIE THEM IN! Otherwise, what's the point of having tie-ins, if you're not even going to reference the story that these tie-ins are supposed to be connected to?

They haven't been disapointing, as Nightwing was pretty tight. But it's not something i would have picked up out of interest if it didn't say "RIP" on the top. But since i bought the first part of the story and liked it, i decided to continue.

 

[GlasgowBat]

When is the right time?

a good question, and one i can't answer in all honesty.

i will say, however, that it is certainly the wrong time now, considering that not long before the start of grant's run batman "returned" during one year later, with what was intended to be a new vigor and a more focused mission.

had a story akin to RIP came around at the end of 52, or even in the place of infinite crisis or just after, i may well have been more receiving, even though i wouldn't feel it that the story was exhausted, as it could be argued that a natural ending, of sorts, had been reached.

of course, my commitment to the character may well be blinding me, and i may never accept that a time is right for Bruce Wayne to be pushed out of the spotlight. i cannot guarantee this is not the case.

it is simply my opinion that there are still many good stories left to tell with Bruce Wayne, and that the character has not become stale or out of touch in any way. nor, may i add, where his sales lagging prior to grant stepping in.

the success, and particularly the popularity amongst fans, of TDK perhaps indicates that there is an appetite amongst the comic fan community for good stories surrounding and concerning the Bruce Wayne character.

 

[Paradyme]

Ugh, another delay? Well, at least I had the Joker graphic novel to tie me over.