BATMAN: Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

[Nepenthes]

I love this thread! especially the ideas for the series. I'm not usually one for 'prohibitively faithful' live-action but I've formed that attitude in the context of Nolans movies and in opposition to what's come before. Here you guys have presented a more faithful style quite well. When I have proper time I will attempt to outline a few ideas to the standard here.


Some quick questions though so I'm not wasting time.

Breifly, what pseudo-science would you present for things like Ivy's plant control for example? Telepathy won't work on plants, and pheremones won't provide the amount of control she displays in the books. Some kind of biological telekineses? Or in such extreme instances (also Clayface's shapeshifting) would you skip over the science when it's not so solid and just rely on a higher degree of suspension of belief? This is in comparison to things like Mad-Hatter's cybernetics and Man-Bat's gene-splicing which involve more commonly 'accepted' theories of pseudo-science. These you can go into detail because they are closer to real life and more common in mainstream pop-culture.

Also where do you draw the line on faithfulness. For Mr.Freeze is a powerful dry ice pump acceptable over the comic-style ice ray? Can Killer Croc merely be afflicted with a rare condition or does he actually have to be a reptilian evolutionary throwback?

Also it has been hinted that Scarface is an entity independant of the Venquilotrist. Do we have to hold to this? Supernatural mysticism undermines the CSI angle here. Is it legit? (excluding the issue of Ra's immortality)

If you could answer here that'd be great.




Aside, on Jokers super-strength ^ you could say that the chemical bath deadened his pain receptors which would make him seem more invulnerable to harm I guess. And perhaps in his unique mental state he is often flushed with andrenaline (also his brain is producing a higher volume of andrenalin to keep up?) which would cause him to actually be stronger than your averge bloke, but within human limits. Just thinking of those urban legends about mothers lifting cars to save their trapped children, that's andrenalin. This way you don't have to get into altered DNA if you don't want to Herr Logan.

 

[Herr Logan]

I love this thread! especially the ideas for the series. I'm not usually one for 'prohibitively faithful' live-action but I've formed that attitude in the context of Nolans movies and in opposition to what's come before. Here you guys have presented a more faithful style quite well. When I have proper time I will attempt to outline a few ideas to the standard here.

Thanks, Nepenthes. I look forward to your ideas.

Some quick questions though so I'm not wasting time.

Breifly, what pseudo-science would you present for things like Ivy's plant control for example? Telepathy won't work on plants, and pheremones won't provide the amount of control she displays in the books. Some kind of biological telekineses? Or in such extreme instances (also Clayface's shapeshifting) would you skip over the science when it's not so solid and just rely on a higher degree of suspension of belief? This is in comparison to things like Mad-Hatter's cybernetics and Man-Bat's gene-splicing which involve more commonly 'accepted' theories of pseudo-science. These you can go into detail because they are closer to real life and more common in mainstream pop-culture.

For Poison Ivy, I think it's pretty much all or nothing. There's no point in trying to downplay her superhuman or scientific abilities, and I think it's only right to portray it as the fantasy it is, with the requisite sci-fi exposition, of course, as much as can be given. Suspension of disbelief is going to be required for the entire series, but especially with Poison Ivy. Can't be helped. Make the writing, acting and action good enough, and even those people obsessed with "realism" will get over it.

The same thing goes for Clayface, although I believe I said earlier that the very first appearance of Clayface would feature a non-powered villain on a TV series. Not for "realism" purposes, of course (I don't make decisions based on that... that's not in the spirit of the mythos), but just because I personally find the concept of the original Clayface murders interesting. A washed-up actor gets asks to consult on a remake of a horror movie he starred in back in the day, and he starts killing off the cast and crew of the remake. That's just freakin' creepy, and that's the kind of story they'd have shown on BTAS. It'd work perfectly in live action, as well.
Next time Basil Karlo shows up, he'll get superpowers. There will be some requisite sci-fi explanation, as much as can be reasonably drummed up, and it'll be pretty much like in the comics and cartoons as far as effects go.

Also where do you draw the line on faithfulness. For Mr.Freeze is a powerful dry ice pump acceptable over the comic-style ice ray?

I'm not sure what a dry ice pump is.
One thing I do know is that you absolutely cannot mess with the freeze ray and have it be faithful. It's officially supposed to spray a special freon-based liquid that immediately freezes what it hits (fired at high pressure, so it doesn't even seem like a liquid most of the time, is my guess). The other way to go is to have it be an energy ray, but the first explanation is more likely to appease "reality" junkies. You can't mess with something like the freeze ray and still have it be valid.
My only concession to "realism" for Mr. Freeze is to design his exo-skeleton more like a real-life model. That is, use a man-shaped suit of armor and just add a real, strength-enhancing apparatus on the outside (example 1, example 2 (scroll down the page). It would be more articulated and refined than the one in those pictures, but you get the idea. That would make it just slightly more bulky than it would ordinarily be, but it would give a perfectly realistic way to enhance his strength that would still look great.

Can Killer Croc merely be afflicted with a rare condition or does he actually have to be a reptilian evolutionary throwback?

He has to have superhuman strength and extremely powerful jaws and teeth, so there's got to be just a little bit of evolutionary throwback in there. I'd prefer his skin be gray, rather than green, but the texture has to look a lot more like a crocodile's than in BTAS. This is basically a full-body makeup job. There's no need for further reptilian physiology than the jaws and skin, but I'd be fine with claws. Actually, reptilian eyes couldn't hurt, either, just for effect. Obviously there's no tail. He even didn't have a tail in the comics before 'Hush' (if even then). I want a scary, powerful criminal, not another flat-out totem monster.

Also it has been hinted that Scarface is an entity independant of the Venquilotrist. Do we have to hold to this? Supernatural mysticism undermines the CSI angle here. Is it legit? (excluding the issue of Ra's immortality)

If you could answer here that'd be great.

Hinted, as in that's what's really going on, or hinted for creepy effect?
In a movie, there's probably no time to properly creep the audience out further and drop hints that Scarface is alive in and of himself. In a series, I'd go for it. It's all just hinting, and with an atmosphere like a proper Gotham City's got (superstitious and fearful), that kind of thing works perfectly.
The facts of the case are that he's an extension of Wesker's mind, and that would be the basis of everything. A little extra creepiness doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't, unless I got confirmation that Scarface is alive, present him that way on the whole.

Aside, on Jokers super-strength ^ you could say that the chemical bath deadened his pain receptors which would make him seem more invulnerable to harm I guess. And perhaps in his unique mental state he is often flushed with andrenaline (also his brain is producing a higher volume of andrenalin to keep up?) which would cause him to actually be stronger than your averge bloke, but within human limits. Just thinking of those urban legends about mothers lifting cars to save their trapped children, that's andrenalin. This way you don't have to get into altered DNA if you don't want to Herr Logan.

That's absolutely perfect, Nepenthes. That's what I was going for. I don't want his pain receptors to be all gone, but I'd like his pain input to be less effective than if it were someone else getting beaten down by the Batman.

A lot of people don't like the idea of a permanent smile on the Joker. Personally, I do, and if Zaphod would show up more than a couple times a year and give me his opinion on that, I'd decide what our Joker's deal is on that score. If he had a permanent smile and the Batman noticed that it was permanent, he could come to the conclusion that the Joker may have some serious nerve damage, which allows him to give some exposition. Otherwise, it's just a one-time mention about how strong he is so that the audience doesn't think that the writers forgot how "unbeatable" the Batman is in a hand-to-hand fight. I always hated when the Batman would inexplicably get beat up by common thugs in the Animated Series. When it's Joker or Two-Face, fine, but Bud and Lou or Curly and Moe or whoever was henchin' for whoever gets too many lucky shots in, that's pretty suspect. It's somehow much better if the Batman at least acknowledges his opponent is up to the task.

Welcome to the Haven, Nepenthes, and thanks for posting.

 

[Cullen]

Mad men are said to have superhuman strength. At least that's what I learned on T.V. Would T.V. lie to me?

Back in the day, my brother and I talked a lot about the Joker, wondering how he survived what he survived. I think we decided he was sort of like Marvel's Madcap in that nothing really ever hurt him.

Then there's also the idea (and I might have read this on another thread in these forums) that the Joker is the embodyment of Gotham City's madness, and that he will always return so long as Gothem remains the way it is.

I'm not sure either idea works for movies or tv. Or even comics, outside of an Elseworld. However, it's been a while since I"ve posted anything here and I was feeling guilty. That and the rumor that JMS is leaving Spider-man was made me all happy chatty.

 

[Herr Logan]

Mad men are said to have superhuman strength. At least that's what I learned on T.V. Would T.V. lie to me?

Back in the day, my brother and I talked a lot about the Joker, wondering how he survived what he survived. I think we decided he was sort of like Marvel's Madcap in that nothing really ever hurt him.

Then there's also the idea (and I might have read this on another thread in these forums) that the Joker is the embodyment of Gotham City's madness, and that he will always return so long as Gothem remains the way it is.

I'm not sure either idea works for movies or tv. Or even comics, outside of an Elseworld. However, it's been a while since I"ve posted anything here and I was feeling guilty. That and the rumor that JMS is leaving Spider-man was made me all happy chatty.

I am profusely sorry that I haven't responded to this sooner. I was having internet trouble and have been working my crappy retail job pretty much everyday, but there's really no excuse.

The reason madmen seem to have superhuman strength is because they either don't feel pain the way sane people do at the moment, or they don't care. That's how perps tripping on PCP (or similar drugs) get to Hulk out when the police try to bust them. That's supposed to be why zombies are so strong as well-- they don't feel pain, so they can use the full potential of whatever muscle mass they have left until all of it rips from use.

The fact that hallucinogen users and psychotics behave with seemingly superhuman strength is all the validation I need to make the Joker extremely strong one moment and not so much the next. I don't want to officially add any powers to him, but I want it to be clear that when he gets a good shot in on the Batman or doesn't crumple after one good punch (as minor thugs would tend to do in my movies), it's not a plot hole. The Joker's brain chemistry is somewhat unstable (I know you think I should say "very unstable," but I don't know whether or not you can be crazy and have your chemicals stable in that state), so the whole pain resistance thing can come and go. I would think when the adrenaline is pumping but he hasn't exhausted himself yet, that's when the Joker is the hardest to beat, physically.

I don't want to make the Joker's biggest asset his strength, but I want to pay real tribute to all the fights the Batman and the Joker have had. One big fight scene is all I need, but I want the Joker to hold his own. This will factor into the Batman's future plans, since he now realizes that his superior physique and training aren't enough, and he may have to add additional gadgets to his arsenal and learn to think even more like this new brand of criminal. The ironic thing is-- and this isn't going to be merely implied, I assure you-- the Batman has one foot in that world anyway. The world of men obsessed, who use gimmicks to project their image onto the world. He's already on that train, practically. The only difference is that he's pro-social instead of anti-social.

Thank you for posting, Cullen. I really do appreciate it. Good riddance to JMS, although I still won't be buying any current Marvel books. They ruined their chance.

 

[Herr Logan]

Zev:

I've finally been watching 'Prison Break.' I'm completely addicted, now. I still think you were out of line when you said Michael Scofield was cooler than Batman, but I see why you think there are similarities. There definitely are.

Are they in Season 3, now? Do you know when Season 2 will be out on DVD?

 

[Zaphod]

First off, I want there to be a question mark whenever the term "schizoid personality disorder" is used on the topic of Bruce Wayne. There's no way to know for sure if that applies, since real people with that condition usually don't become experts in pretending to be amiable playboys among other personality traits. I don't want to be caught in a blatant inaccuracy and merely throw out psychological terminology loosely to give the movie more credibility as a "serious story." But yes, the term should be mentioned, but in a theoretical capacity.

Agree entirely. It shouldn't come up very often, and when it did nothing would be set in stone. Nevertheless, something I certainly want to focus on in the beggining movie is the birth of the fears surrounding Bruce's Batman-identity, and I want both Leslie and Alfred to show they care and worry for him. Yes, Alfred aids Bruce, but he would also be seen keeping a close eye on him. Leslie will initially be tentative with Bruce when she first see's him as Batman in the clinic, but her fear will turn to stubborness soon enough and she wont be afraid to rival Bruce in a battle of ideaologies. I'd even show one scene of Leslie showing her anger and upset with how Alfred can actively take part in Bruce's 'state'.

Maybe when Leslie turns back to her desk, the Batman could actually be standing there, looking at his file. Leslie can make some comment about "giving an old woman a heart attack."

I have the whole of this scene playing out beautifully in my head, it's just putting it into words that is the tricky part. Basically, before even turning round to face Bruce, who has silently entered through the open window, Leslie senses his presence. The camera will show a close up, side on view of her face, and there will be a dramatic silent pause. She then whispers "Bruce?" in a slightly scared, jerky way. Also, think of the expression that Betty Brant had on her face when she saw Hulk in the woods in the movie, that expression of fear, fascination and confusion needs to pass over Leslies face for at least three seconds when she see's Bruce as Batman for the first time.

So Herr, how you been?

 

[Zev]

Zev:

I've finally been watching 'Prison Break.' I'm completely addicted, now. I still think you were out of line when you said Michael Scofield was cooler than Batman, but I see why you think there are similarities. There definitely are.

Are they in Season 3, now? Do you know when Season 2 will be out on DVD?

I'd say that Batman would probably be able to handle the sudden changes in plans better than Scofield (and is definitely more of a physical threat), but I don't know if he'd have the sheer audacity to attempt the plan in the first place. Also, Michael strikes me as a good deal more healthy, psychologically speaking. He'd able to form a relationship with Hero Doctor Sara, while Batman can't seal the deal with either Crazy Ex-Hooker Cat Burglar or Ecoterrorist Daddy's Girl. Plus, Michael's relationships with Sucre and Lincoln are a great deal better than the equivalent Bat-relationships with Robin and Nightwing.

Right now they're on Season Two, which went into hiatus (and also introduced a sort of "Commissioner Gordon" to Michael's Batman in Agent Mahone). It's coming back sometime in January, so if you've got access to a bittorrent site or can find reruns playing, now's a good time to catch up.

 

[Herr Logan]

Agree entirely. It shouldn't come up very often, and when it did nothing would be set in stone. Nevertheless, something I certainly want to focus on in the beggining movie is the birth of the fears surrounding Bruce's Batman-identity, and I want both Leslie and Alfred to show they care and worry for him. Yes, Alfred aids Bruce, but he would also be seen keeping a close eye on him. Leslie will initially be tentative with Bruce when she first see's him as Batman in the clinic, but her fear will turn to stubborness soon enough and she wont be afraid to rival Bruce in a battle of ideaologies. I'd even show one scene of Leslie showing her anger and upset with how Alfred can actively take part in Bruce's 'state'.

Sounds good.

I have the whole of this scene playing out beautifully in my head, it's just putting it into words that is the tricky part. Basically, before even turning round to face Bruce, who has silently entered through the open window, Leslie senses his presence. The camera will show a close up, side on view of her face, and there will be a dramatic silent pause. She then whispers "Bruce?" in a slightly scared, jerky way. Also, think of the expression that Betty Brant had on her face when she saw Hulk in the woods in the movie, that expression of fear, fascination and confusion needs to pass over Leslies face for at least three seconds when she see's Bruce as Batman for the first time.

I think you mean Betty Ross, not Betty Brant.

I get what you mean. I, too, want to see Leslie scared of him, but then get over it (mostly) when she finds out who it is. Perhaps there could be an element of "it could have been worse... but not by much" in her reasoning. she always feared he'd turn into a destructive, lost soul, and maybe that's what he is now, but at least he's got his heart in the right place. Still, it's a pretty horrifying concept, when you really think about it from the point of view of a person who knew this guy when he was a child.

I want a Batman who inspires fear in others mostly across the board, although innocent people (like Leslie, and a good deal of the people he saves from danger) are much less frightened of him than criminals once rumor gets around that the Batman hunts bad guys. One of the big factors at work in that dynamic is guilt. Even if the bad guys have little or no remorse for their misdeeds, part of them is always expecting some awful consequences for their actions. That's the price you pay for breaking the Golden Rule: you piss people off and earn their vengeance. Thus, the majority of the petty criminals are partly always expecting the police or victims or victims' loved ones to come after them. When a supposedly supernatural creature emerges and starts stalking criminals with the strength and speed of a panther, the mind of a genius and the wings of a bat, that takes it to a whole new level. The ones who are superstitious and/or believe in Hell might think he's coming to give them what's coming to them and knows everything they've ever done.

One argument against having the Batman wear a uniform that looks like human clothing (although obviously not street clothes) is that the criminals won't fear a guy who's just some crazy man in tights. I want various scenes of people talking about the Batman, to each other and to reporters, throughout the film series. One of those scenes will feature one person telling another that the Batman is just a crazy man in tights with lots of customized equipment, and that he's not so scary. The other person will respond and say that a supposedly "normal" human who dresses like a bat and goes out into the city every single night to fight hardened, violent thugs without using guns and succeeds... that's pretty God damn intimidating right there.

That's how the Batman works on at least two different levels. If he can't impress upon someone that he's a demonic entity, he's still the biggest badass around. He gets results, and the higher-ups who have seen his attempts to bring them down know he's very smart and very thorough, so he's still plenty threatening.
This is the same dynamic that allows Robin to be intimidating in this fiction universe. Even if he is just a kid in tights, he's known to be fast enough to avoid machine gun fire, etc. and be the right hand of the biggest badass in town. He gets results, so even as a mere mortal, he becomes a legend in his own right. The Batman will tell him that "Robin" isn't a very intimidating codename. Robin will say, "Give me a couple weeks on the streets, and it will be."

I don't know where the hell all that came from.... Just sprang to mind and I ran with it, I guess.

So Herr, how you been?

Terrible. Truly terrible. And yourself?

 

[Herr Logan]

I'd say that Batman would probably be able to handle the sudden changes in plans better than Scofield (and is definitely more of a physical threat), but I don't know if he'd have the sheer audacity to attempt the plan in the first place. Also, Michael strikes me as a good deal more healthy, psychologically speaking. He'd able to form a relationship with Hero Doctor Sara, while Batman can't seal the deal with either Crazy Ex-Hooker Cat Burglar or Ecoterrorist Daddy's Girl. Plus, Michael's relationships with Sucre and Lincoln are a great deal better than the equivalent Bat-relationships with Robin and Nightwing.

Yeah, the Batman would probably be able to handle the sudden changes in plans better than Scofield, mainly because he's well-versed in many more fields than Scofield, including psychology. Still, our Prison Breaker was pretty damn impressive in his planning and improvisation (until it practically broke down toward the end of the first season). I swear, the constant sudden changes and obstacles were driving me crazy with anticipation. Thank God I watched that season on DVD and not TV.

I don't think Schofield is necessarily healthier than the Batman, but since he didn't start acting crazy until late in life, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

You can't hold the Batman's inability to maintain a relationship with female criminals against him. There's no excuse for being with Talia, for one thing-- she's a God damn attempted mass murderer. I don't care whose idea it was first, she's neck-deep in the conspiracy to commit genocide.
As for Catwoman, she's unstable and predisposed toward crime. Even if she isn't nearly the worst kind of crook out there (she doesn't kill, for one thing), that's pretty shaky ground. As for what happened at the end of 'Hush', you can't blame him for being suspicious. That was a huge conspiratory mind-f#ck, and I probably would have been wary of her, too, by that point.

I haven't seen Season 2 of 'Prison Break', so I don't know if Schofield is capable of making a relationship last with Hero Doctor Sara or anyone else.

Right now they're on Season Two, which went into hiatus (and also introduced a sort of "Commissioner Gordon" to Michael's Batman in Agent Mahone). It's coming back sometime in January, so if you've got access to a bittorrent site or can find reruns playing, now's a good time to catch up.

I don't know nothin' about no bittorents. I'll look for reruns. All's I know is I freakin' love that show, at least as far as I've seen.

 

[Zev]

It also seems to me there's been any number of eligible bachelorettes for Bruce to go out with (including, let's not forget, freaking Wonder Woman!), like Vicki Vale, Silver St. Cloud, Julie Madison, et al.

Although, to his credit, Batman would not let T-Bag get away with half the **** that crazy old child molester pulled. Then again, he has given Joker a lot and a lot and A LOT of slack over the years...

By the way, if you're serious about writing Batman: Year One (and in script format rather than prose), you should put some thought into putting together a step sheet or treatment. It's a good way to organize your thoughts for a plunge into a full script or just further exploration down the road.

 

[Zaphod]

I think you mean Betty Ross, not Betty Brant.

Ah...erm, well, heh...shut up, your not the boss of me!

I get what you mean. I, too, want to see Leslie scared of him, but then get over it (mostly) when she finds out who it is. Perhaps there could be an element of "it could have been worse... but not by much" in her reasoning. she always feared he'd turn into a destructive, lost soul, and maybe that's what he is now, but at least he's got his heart in the right place. Still, it's a pretty horrifying concept, when you really think about it from the point of view of a person who knew this guy when he was a child.

Indeed. Leslie would know it was Bruce she was dealing with though, before he even opened his mouth and let it be known for sure. Leslie would sense it; the two have an emotional bond and I'd want to establish that relationship since it's very important. Before Batman confronts Leslie in her clinic at the lonely, late hour, there would have been scenes before hand showing the public frenzy that the Batman is having: a montage similar to the one in 'Spider-Man' perhaps, with headlines splashed accross the 'Gotham Times', television broadcasts of interviews with psychologists etc (a'la DKR) aswell as those people arguing with reporters as you said, and Leslie will know from these, and her own understanding of the boy that left Gotham, that somehow this is Bruce doing all these things. She wont know how right away, but she'll just know.

Terrible. Truly terrible. And yourself?

Praytell as to why? I've been mostly okish.

 

[Herr Logan]

Ah...erm, well, heh...shut up, your not the boss of me!

Ah, if only that were true...

Indeed. Leslie would know it was Bruce she was dealing with though, before he even opened his mouth and let it be known for sure. Leslie would sense it; the two have an emotional bond and I'd want to establish that relationship since it's very important. Before Batman confronts Leslie in her clinic at the lonely, late hour, there would have been scenes before hand showing the public frenzy that the Batman is having: a montage similar to the one in 'Spider-Man' perhaps, with headlines splashed accross the 'Gotham Times', television broadcasts of interviews with psychologists etc (a'la DKR) aswell as those people arguing with reporters as you said, and Leslie will know from these, and her own understanding of the boy that left Gotham, that somehow this is Bruce doing all these things. She wont know how right away, but she'll just know.

I'd prefer Leslie figure it out after seeing the Batman standing in the spot in that Park Row alley where the Waynes were killed and finding two roses lying there after he suddenly vanishes. This doesn't quite establish the psychic-type bond you're going for, but I don't think that's necessary. This scene would be very similar to the one in 'Mask of the Phantasm' where Andrea Beaumont figures out that Bruce is the Batman. Their first conversation can still be at the Park Row Clinic in her office.

If you really want to go for her somehow "just knowing" that a masked vigilante that she's never met or seen grieving over the Waynes, then I insist there be a set of specific flashbacks that precede her realization, dealing with Bruce's encounter and subsequent recurring nightmares about bats and also his defense of his strange and obsessive behavior as a young teenager. For example, young Bruce had been devouring any and all knowledge available in Gotham about criminology and psychology and when questioned about it, he said that Gotham needs something more than what it's got if criminals are going to be kept under control. "The time is going to come where my fear will be theirs and they won't be able to hide from it." This can be construed as referring to darkness and the creatures that may lurk within.

Praytell as to why? I've been mostly okish.

I'm still utterly broken over the split-up, and there's nothing real to keep my depression under control. Part of me is hoping there never will be so I don't have to live like a zombie anymore.

 

[Zaphod]

Herr, tell me your still breathing?

 

[Herr Logan]

Herr, tell me your still breathing?

I am, although I sincerely wish I wasn't.

That statement was true yesterday, but today I've got two brand new glowing reasons for it:
1) The Hype's gastly new color scheme.
2) Some nefarious waste of skin changed my thoughtfully-made avatar (which was a gift from Hunter Rider) to a picture of David Hasselhoff in bikini briefs.


I can see you've got other things to do that take precedence over a collaboration on a Batman movie script project, so I'll just procede solo whenever the mood strikes me.

I've decided that the Scarecrow has no place in a 'Year One' story. I was definitely trying too hard to re-write 'Batman Begins' when I planned to use him at the beginning. The Penguin is a much more appropriate opening villian to use along-side the corrupt GCPD antogonists. The main enemies in the original story 'Batman: Year One' are the cops, with Organized Crime a secondary. Regardless of what the writers of 'Batman Begins' want us to believe, the Scarecrow is not an OC villain, primarily. The Penguin is. He's a perfect blend of an OC character and a "gimmick villian." I don't mind, and indeed insist on having the Penguin use trick umbrellas and trained birds and having extreme eccentricities, but I want to save the villains who wear an actual costume until after the 'Year One' story is over. Once that happens, Scarecrow basically has to take his place in line as far as I'm concerned. That probably puts him at Movie #4, since I would never pair him with the Joker in a movie, and I desperately want to see Two-Face and the Riddler done right soon after the Joker and Catwoman.

The basic line-up of villains:

Batman: Year One
Corrupt GCPD (especially Commissioner Loeb, Detective Flass, Sgt. Branden); the Penguin


Batman 2
The Joker; Carmine Falcone's mob; Catwoman

Batman 3
Two-Face; Riddler; Tony Zucco

Batman 4
Scarecrow; (to be determined)



Of course, I now believe that the more perfect live-action Batman vehicle is a television series, not movies. It could be done, and by doing so, the events of 'Year One' could be spread out over a whole season and concurrently with the stars of the Rogues Gallery. The Scarecrow could feature in Season 1along with the Joker, the Penguin, Catwoman, Clayface (the first appearance of whom will not have superpowers, allowing for a simple, creepy, Hollywood-themed murder mystery, but he'll have superpowers next appearance) and Deadshot.

 

[venom628]

I don't even like batman (only batman of the future) and im not clicking on any of those links.

 

[Herr Logan]

I don't even like batman (only batman of the future) and im not clicking on any of those links.

Then don't post in this thread, underaged troll.

 

[Abaddon]

not even the lively pink has softened your heart.

 

[Herr Logan]

No, not even the lively pink. There is no hope.

 

[Saint]

Of course, I now believe that the more perfect live-action Batman vehicle is a television series

I'm not convinced. The funds necessary to achieve the production quality needed for such a program would never be allocated by the network.

 

[Abaddon]

There's always hope. Shed some of the tough stuff and let the warmth out.


I actually have your hunter avvy if you need it, but I'm liking your current one.

 

[venom628]

No, not even the lively pink. There is no hope.

Herr Logan im really sorry... Can you post Lots of Inque pictures? I really REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY need those pics.

 

[cujo66]

I don't even know where to start.
I just found this thread today. WHERE HAS IT BEEN. Thanks for reviving it.
So refreshing to see fans of a like mind.
I haven't read the whole thread, being that it's 15 pages long, just kinda skimmed through it. And I am so relieved to find out that Herr Logan's announcememnt of leaving (page 7) didn't happen. Because....

cujo66: "I pledge myself to your teachings."
Herr Logan: "From this day hence, you shall be known as Darth Dark Claw. Rise"

I'm right with you. I'm gonna print the rules out and frame them.

I hate the "it's not realistic." Bull Shot.

One of the most unrealistic aspects of Begins is that costume, I'll buy it for the first movie, because it's what he had available, but for the second one, let's get "real". I'm Bruce Wayne, I've commited myself to being Batman, I'm a billionaire, I've got Lusious Fox at my beck and call, you think I'm gonna run around in some big, bulky, HOT body armor. No.

Bruce Wayne To Do List

• Kick Nolan in the balls for burning my house down. WTF?
• Rebuild house.
• Get Lusious to make me a lite wieght costume (something that looks less like Darth Vader)
• Have him find a better rig up for scaling and repeling, this belt thing is killing my back, need something that goes around and betwen the legs,like mountain climbers use, maybe conceal it in some type of trunks, blue would be a nice color, in fact I want the cowl, cape boots and gloves blue also.
• Scout circuses for orpheaned acrobats to audition for side kick.

I love this thread. I was about to give up on this forum because there are so many members here that I am not on the same page with, IMO, no movie version as come close to what I want to see. I don't care, I want the movie to look like it came off the comic pages. They gotta get directors who have a love for the comic medium, guys like Richard Rodriquez and Zach Snyder. They didn't want to give their interpretaions of Frank Miller's works, they wanted to bring Miller's works to life.

Anyway I think I've found a home here at SHH. And look forward to posts from other fans of the true Batman.

 

[Herr Logan]

There's always hope. Shed some of the tough stuff and let the warmth out.

I need to retain all the tough stuff I've got, and I've got no use for warmth these days.

I actually have your hunter avvy if you need it, but I'm liking your current one.

Thanks. I've got it in my computer, somewhere. I may switch back to it eventually, but the current one fits my mood perfectly. I just didn't appreciate some vengeful mod switching my avatar when everyone else's seemed to be just fine, and because I caught it and changed it, I'll never know if they had planned to switch it back after April 1st or if they'd just leave it there and assume I'd already died.

 

[Abaddon]

It affected everyone who was on at 12 am on April 1st, then they did it a few times afterwards. Some people still have theirs so I don't even think they bothered to have it switched back, if they could anyway. Anyway, carry on.

 

[Herr Logan]

I'm not convinced. The funds necessary to achieve the production quality needed for such a program would never be allocated by the network.

If a network had people working for it who knew what they were doing, they could make it happen. A proper Batman show would need a good budget, but not necessarily a disproportionately big one. If they can make multiple Star Trek series go on for years, they can do Batman in live action.

Yes, eventually there would be superpowered villains, and there would be plenty of advanced gadgetry and flamboyant stunts from episode to episode, but it's been done before.

This is not an easy task, of course, as a truly good TV show in any genre comes along very infrequently in general, but it could and should be done. It should combine the genres of crime drama and action above all, and although it would of course be formulaic, it would absolutely have to avoid the usual live action superhero show cliches (the exact same "suiting up" sequence in every episode, the hero donning the costume only twice in 45 minutes).
It would definitely have to be a show about the Batman, not about Bruce Wayne. There is nothing interesting about Bruce Wayne without the Batman. Granted, if there was never a Batman persona, maybe the psyche-scarred person known as Wayne would be interesting, but as long as I know that costume and persona is lurking in the background, I have no patience for plainclothes screwing around. You don't need to be spending vast amounts of money every second the actor is in costume-- he can be sitting at his computer, sniffing around a crime scene or merely driving around. I just would never, ever want to see a show that put the costume in the background, because that betrays the very fundamentals of the character. He needs the suit and the act to be the best he can be, period, and I'm tired of this juvenile, self-promoting cliche about "showing the man behind the mask" producers keep tossing around in press releases. There's nothing new or special about that concept, and it doesn't apply to the Batman. I would fully intend to show every major facet of Bruce Wayne's psyche, because I find that vastly interesting and it's something that's never been done properly in live action media, but once he hits age 26 and is back in Gotham City, the costume stays on as much as possible, and only when it's truly necessary and appropriate.

One word that best applies to the Batman is "obsession." The actor Bela Lugosi was laid to his eternal rest in the cape he wore when playing Count Dracula. I think the Batman, who is arguably just as fixated as poor, crazy Mr. Lugosi, should get to wear to wear his own cape for at least 3/4 of any given movie or TV episode.