Transformers Bay's look and feel for Transformers (pics)...

[CFlash]

From the Batman forums, a snippet from an interview with Christopher Nolan that seems quite appropriate

Quote:
Right. Superhero movies are prone to discussions of whether they’re “faithful” or not … Superhero fans want their characters to be comforting, in a way.

That’s exactly the tension I’m talking about. It’s something I find very interesting. Because to me, being faithful to the character in the story is not about slavishly following a particular treatment of one comic or graphic novel — it’s about distilling the essence of the myth.

That’s always been the challenge of Batman, and its strength. You treat the essential elements as mileposts, and all the elements in between — all the other layers and threads — can be fresh and different and surprising. Get that stuff right, and you see the myth in a powerful way.

On a superficial level, when we approached re-designing the Batmobile, we weren’t too specific about what it had to be — other than that it had to be the most powerful car you’ve ever seen. And it had to be black. Other than that, we didn’t say, “It has to have a fin,” or anything like that. And so you’re able to create something completely original and fresh — a renewed concept of “the most powerful car.”

I could see the analogy you're trying to make if they turned the Batmobile into a VW Beetle (the flipside of what happened to BB) and painted gaudy flames on the Batmobile.

The only criteria for the Batmobile they had was for it to be "the most powerful car?" Awesome! The only criteria for Bumblebee should have been that he IS the SLOWEST Autobot (in alt mode or otherwise). The only criteria for Prime is that he shouldn't be a damn gaudy Country Music Channel "Trick My Truck" vehicle. That's Rodimus's look... not Optimus's.

You made my point Ragdus.

 

[ragdus]

No, you missed my point. You clearly focused on the Batmobile point and coincidentally missed the meat of the quote. Let me repeat it for you and make your life easier








That’s exactly the tension I’m talking about. It’s something I find very interesting. Because to me, being faithful to the character in the story is not about slavishly following a particular treatment of one comic or graphic novel — it’s about distilling the essence of the myth.

 

[Spark]

Exactly. Do I like the Megatron design...No. I could complain about it or just be quiet and see if that's the final design. I just rather complain about what I actually see. Why complain about a movie I havent seen when Ii can wait and complain about what I have seen???

It's called feedback. Some of it is eye-wateringly painful to read but in general it's useful (hence the existence of early screenings).

You say you'd prefer to keep quite about Megatron but changes have occured because people spoke up. Possibly for Megatron himself but certainly for other characters.

 

[ragdus]

How do you know that? People are having fits about unconfirmed things, and then when something different comes to light they want to pretend they affected the change. It's bull****.

 

[Spark]

How do you know that? People are having fits about unconfirmed things, and then when something different comes to light they want to pretend they affected the change. It's bull****.

You mean like Soundwave being renamed to THE fan favourite choice, Frenzy?

I'm sure that was just a huge coincidence.

 

[ragdus]

They said they looked at it and felt they couldn't do the character of soundwave justice. Straight from their mouths. How exactly does that mean that riotous fans brought the change to fruition?

You might be right. It's equally possible you're not. You have absolutely zero way of knowing.

The bottom line is people can't keep complaining that the crew doesn't care what the fans think, and then in another thread claim they are making critical changes because the fans aren't happy.

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't

 

[CFlash]

No, you missed my point. You clearly focused on the Batmobile point and coincidentally missed the meat of the quote. Let me repeat it for you and make your life easier

That’s exactly the tension I’m talking about. It’s something I find very interesting. Because to me, being faithful to the character in the story is not about slavishly following a particular treatment of one comic or graphic novel — it’s about distilling the essence of the myth.

No, my friend, it is you. Take note of what he says to qualify that statement:

You treat the essential elements as mileposts, and all the elements in between — all the other layers and threads — can be fresh and different and surprising. Get that stuff right, and you see the myth in a powerful way.

Essential elements? Like the whole needing the natural resources of this here planet that we live on? Like Bumblebee being the slowest... always needing help NOT being the badass he is in the movie who [BLACKOUT]takes out the Decepticon car no problem[/BLACKOUT]. The military and Earth as a whole being completely impotent against the robots? Should I go on?

 

[ragdus]

Sure, go on. Because we all know Bumblebee being slow is of critical importance to making any Transformers story good.

It's also critically important that they preserve the natural resources, and what better way to do so than have your leader take the form of a diesel engine gas guzzling tractor trailer?

Should I go on?

 

[CFlash]

They said they looked at it and felt they couldn't do the character of soundwave justice. Straight from their mouths. How exactly does that mean that riotous fans brought the change to fruition?

You might be right. It's equally possible you're not. You have absolutely zero way of knowing.

The bottom line is people can't keep complaining that the crew doesn't care what the fans think, and then in another thread claim they are making critical changes because the fans aren't happy.

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't

And???? Who cares??? We're the ones paying for the tickets to see the movie! And buying (or not buying) the DVD's. Why shouldn't we not want it to suck!?

If you think they're needlessly spoiling, distorting, and completely misrepresenting a perfectly good story and changing visually iconic things in it, then why not speak up? Likewise, if you like the movie being more like <insert countless comparisons here> than everything many of us have come to know TRANSFORMERS for, then you're free to speak up as well.

 

[Spark]

They said they looked at it and felt they couldn't do the character of soundwave justice. Straight from their mouths. How exactly does that mean that riotous fans brought the change to fruition?

You might be right. It's equally possible you're not. You have absolutely zero way of knowing.

The bottom line is people can't keep complaining that the crew doesn't care what the fans think, and then in another thread claim they are making critical changes because the fans aren't happy.

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't

It doesn't really matter to me wether they come out and say it. I'm just glad the change was made.

And no, I can't prove it. I just know they were looking for calm/rational feedback and they chose the name 99% of the fandom agreed on, so I'm sure Sherlock Holmes would come to the same conclusion as me and others.

Plus I'm sure some of them don't care, but fortunately some of them do, and if they're in agreement I'm sure they'll do their best to get a change made.

But yeah, carpet bombing the whole production as fan haters or ass kissers (and anything inbetween) doesn't make much sense.

 

[CFlash]

Sure, go on. Because we all know Bumblebee being slow is of critical importance to making any Transformers story good.

It's also critically important that they preserve the natural resources, and what better way to do so than have your leader take the form of a diesel engine gas guzzling tractor trailer?

Should I go on?

And that is why you don't get TRANSFORMERS. And you'll love the jingoistic Military Saves the Day, shallow hot-car=hot-girl, not a real-world sci-fi statement or food-for-thought in the movie.... except maybe subtle neo-conservative suggestions (as in Bay's other movies). It's a parody of TRANSFORMERS. But, it's your right to love the direction the movie has taken.

 

[ragdus]

I neither love it nor hate it. I will pass judgment on the finished work.

 

[nosebleed.]

You people defend Bay's movies because you like them. Fine...you like them. But liking something does not make them anything more than what they actually are. You're taking CFlash's metaphor to MC Hammer too literally. Quit talking about MC Hammer, use your heads to the fact that he's comparing the two and take it for what it is.

Now to those saying, "Why complain about something you can't do anything about". I have no concrete evidence to support this but I'm pretty sure that Peter Cullen getting the role is due to fan outcry. Lorenzo Dibonaventura (sp?) stated before in an interview that he wanted movie actors to do the voices for the Transformers and why would anybody want to hear the original voice actors. Cullen being cast so early is a good indication of production wanting to appease the fans. If there was no "complaining" I'm sure that the Clooney rumor would've been more real than we might have thought. I suspect the statement about Megatron's supposed earth-mode is also due to fan backlash.

 

[bunk]

How is a tractor trailer faster than a vw beetle?

 

[ragdus]

Cullen being cast earlywas an indication of fan appeasement? Couldn't it be a sign they want to stick closer to it's roots than you might think? How does their actions truly indication one impetus over the other?

And if the fan outcry truly did bring Cullen onboard, and was vociferous enough to get them to swap out soundwave, why would they be completely obstinent and stubborn about keeping prime's flames of all things? it would be laughably easy to take the flames off and make all the complainers happy. Why aren't they bending to the "fan" pressure?

 

[ragdus]

I suspect...

That just it. You suspect. And unfortunately it usually the worst that you suspect. You have drawn a million conclusions about something nowhere near finished and things that come to light that conflict with your suppositions must have come about do to pressure as opposed to sound decision making.

There's no doubt we all are guilty of misinterpreting what others are saying. So keep in mind that in your defense of CFlash, you take the opportunity to qualify those who disagree as Bay defenders when there are several of us who are simply taking a wait and see attitude as opposed to coming to one judgement or another.

That's hardly a defense of the man.

 

[nosebleed.]

Why aren't they bending to the "fan" pressure?

They might be doing what a certain evil dr wanted requested.

Throw me a frickin' bone here!

 

[Mr. Roboto]

I don't get why people are so mad with the direction the movie is taking it's not like it's that much diferent from what the TV shows were.

 

[bunk]

You people defend Bay's movies because you like them. Fine...you like them. But liking something does not make them anything more than what they actually are. You're taking CFlash's metaphor to MC Hammer too literally. Quit talking about MC Hammer, use your heads to the fact that he's comparing the two and take it for what it is.

Now to those saying, "Why complain about something you can't do anything about". I have no concrete evidence to support this but I'm pretty sure that Peter Cullen getting the role is due to fan outcry. Lorenzo Dibonaventura (sp?) stated before in an interview that he wanted movie actors to do the voices for the Transformers and why would anybody want to hear the original voice actors. Cullen being cast so early is a good indication of production wanting to appease the fans. If there was no "complaining" I'm sure that the Clooney rumor would've been more real than we might have thought. I suspect the statement about Megatron's supposed earth-mode is also due to fan backlash.

I think those who were saying "why complain about something you can't do anything about" were maybe referring more specifically to Michael Bay directing the picture. I'm still gonna complain about other things whether it will result in a change or not, just because I wouldn't want anyone currently developing the movie to think they can do no wrong. God knows they don't need any help with that delusion. I like the idea of fan outcry possibly making those f***ers sweat a little.

 

[ragdus]

They might be doing what a certain evil dr wanted requested.

Absolutely. That might be it. But what reasoning do you personally have to think they'd hire Cullen and cut Soundwave out but refuse to take Prime's flames away?

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'd like a serious answer I can look at and say "yep, that makes sense"

 

[nosebleed.]

That just it. You suspect. And unfortunately it usually the worst that you suspect. You have drawn a million conclusions about something nowhere near finished and things that come to light that conflict with your suppositions must have come about do to pressure as opposed to sound decision making.

There's no doubt we all are guilty of misinterpreting what others are saying. So keep in mind that in your defense of CFlash, you take the opportunity to qualify those who disagree as Bay defenders when there are several of us who are simply taking a wait and see attitude as opposed to coming to one judgement or another.

Speculation is what this forum is all about. If you can't deal with it then be I don't see why you're here. But to tell us not to is more ridiculous than me suspecting...seeing as how I'm not pushing off my speculations as fact.

It is FACT that production has said they are listening to fans...do they say this because they want us to shut up and color?

 

[Spark]

And if the fan outcry truly did bring Cullen onboard, and was vociferous enough to get them to swap out soundwave, why would they be completely obstinent and stubborn about keeping prime's flames of all things? it would be laughably easy to take the flames off and make all the complainers happy. Why aren't they bending to the "fan" pressure?

The thing with Soundwave is that he was an even bigger issue than Peter Cullen at the time, and even people who hated mass shifted declared their preference for that rather than 4ft Miniwave.

Cullen speaks for itself.

Flame Prime, on the other hand, is merely seen as tacky by many fans and not something which could potentially ruin the movie for them.

 

[ragdus]

I'd say the Soundwave cut speaks for itself as well. It was fun in the cartoon, but unless the character is seriously retooled you'll never have a large mobile robot that is true to soundwave.

Cullen does speak for itself. A good decision by them, even if it wasn't the only possible good decision. Gary Chalk, IMO, would have been good too.

As for the flames, I don't like them so I'm not going to stick up for them. But it just seems an unnecessary antagonist IF they are simultaneously caving in other areas.

 

[CFlash]

That just it. You suspect. And unfortunately it usually the worst that you suspect. You have drawn a million conclusions about something nowhere near finished and things that come to light that conflict with your suppositions must have come about do to pressure as opposed to sound decision making.

There's no doubt we all are guilty of misinterpreting what others are saying. So keep in mind that in your defense of CFlash, you take the opportunity to qualify those who disagree as Bay defenders when there are several of us who are simply taking a wait and see attitude as opposed to coming to one judgement or another.

That's hardly a defense of the man.

I don't think anyone is taking a stand on something we haven't seen. We're commenting on stuff we HAVE seen and extrapolating based on previous experiences with other "franchise adaptation" movies and, of course, Bay's previous works. There's nothing wrong with that. Like you, I can't form a judgement on the FINAL movie. But I can sure say that some of the designs that we have seen and the alt-mode choices that have been confirmed(!) are unfaithful and the story (TO ME!) bears little resemblence philosophically and emotionally to the TRANSFORMERS I grew up with (based on leaked script and other info gleamed from quotes from Bay, the writers, and other insiders).

At the same time I can say that IMO Optimus Prime looks awesome(!!!) (as a robot) but he looks like a corny Rodimus Prime as a truck. Sue me.
I can also say that, while I've certainly seen worse movies (though none with as large a budget), I've disliked every single Bay film except Bad Boys back in High School. I think he represents everything that WAS wrong with Hollywood in the 90's (until Peter Jackson came along and some genius finally decided to give Sam Raimi the budget he deserves). Sue me again.

 

[CFlash]

The thing with Soundwave is that he was an even bigger issue than Peter Cullen at the time, and even people who hated mass shifted declared their preference for that rather than 4ft Miniwave.

Cullen speaks for itself.

Flame Prime, on the other hand, is merely seen as tacky by many fans and not something which could potentially ruin the movie for them.

I agree with you... but this is just one symptom in what appears to be an OVERALL serious dumbing down of the mythos and general vibe.