Besides Jane, the only thing I really miss is...

[webhead731]

The way his family was killed in the other movie. It was a hell of alot more tense and the music was just phenomenal.

This one almost relied on you to either have read the comics or to have seen the 2004 movie (even though this isn't a sequel -_-) to really understand.
Just bothered me.

Anyone else agree?

 

[The Guard]

Well, the way his family was killed was longer, but I could do without

"Mom! Grampa's boat!"

 

[Bubonic]

That was actually one of the parts in the 2004 movie that I hated.

It seemed unnecessarily over the top.

Like they said, to hell with just killing his wife and two kids, nope... We'll go for the XTREME Liefield edition and have this drawn out broad daylight massacre of his entire extended family!!!

I still think if they took the time and talent to make you really care about Frank's kid and wife, it'll play out the way it should when presented to the audience.

This new movie did totally skim over that, it showed some powerful looking flashbacks, but avoided letting it be more then a passing reference... So if people went in not really knowing the back story that wouldn't have the particular effect intended.

If I ever become disgustingly wealthy, I'll dedicate a portion of my money to produce the best damned Punisher HBO series ever known!

 

[Microchip]

Haha I thought that was one of the WORST parts of that movie. Especially with him running towards his family as they're getting run over. Wow.

 

[S. Grundy]

That was actually one of the parts in the 2004 movie that I hated.

It seemed unnecessarily over the top.

Like they said, to hell with just killing his wife and two kids, nope... We'll go for the XTREME Liefield edition and have this drawn out broad daylight massacre of his entire extended family!!!

I still think if they took the time and talent to make you really care about Frank's kid and wife, it'll play out the way it should when presented to the audience.

This new movie did totally skim over that, it showed some powerful looking flashbacks, but avoided letting it be more then a passing reference... So if people went in not really knowing the back story that wouldn't have the particular effect intended.

If I ever become disgustingly wealthy, I'll dedicate a portion of my money to produce the best damned Punisher HBO series ever known!

See I think that could have been played even more over the top, it wasn't this squib-fest on the level of Robocop.

Haha I thought that was one of the WORST parts of that movie. Especially with him running towards his family as they're getting run over. Wow.

They were dead when he got them, and I found it pretty gut wrenching, Jane sold the pain of seeing his wife and kids lying there dead really well.

 

[Microchip]

I don't think many'll deny Jane did a good job with the role, but it was just so stupid. Them getting run over while he books it towards them on the pier screaming his head off...

 

[Jackasscoley15]

I hated the way his family was killed in the 2004 film. It was basically a rip-off of the death of Max's family in Mad Max.

 

[Brendan]

My favorite version of the death of Frank Castle's family is Ennis's version in The Cell. He took the central park setting and did something different with it. Taking it from a mob hit to just a complete random massacre. I think it spoke more volumes on why the Punisher does what he does.

 

[Bubonic]

See I think that could have been played even more over the top, it wasn't this squib-fest on the level of Robocop.

They were dead when he got them, and I found it pretty gut wrenching, Jane sold the pain of seeing his wife and kids lying there dead really well.

The more over the top it gets, the less effective that sort of scene is for me.
Just compare it to when Maximus lost his wife and child in Gladiator, now that was a gut wrenching scene.

Not only because of Crowe's performance, but because the set up we have with his family. You care for them.

They couldn't get very solid performances out of whoever played Jane's wife and kid, so they went for this grandiose massacre which seemed stupid to me, I was actually laughing at it.

Jane did give a great heart wrenching yell though, him I bought into.

 

[citizenpain]

i hated the 2004 origin. it's like they added in 10 extra family members for no real reason, we didn't even really care for them anyway besides the dad and the wife and son, but that's all you really need is the wife and kids, so why tack on all the others? i'm glad they got it right with war zone. it's almost as if they added in his whole entire family cuz the wife and kids weren't enough to justify frank becoming the punisher.

my main beef with the 2004 origin however is that it wasn't some random act of criminal violence that took frank's family away. that's kind of the whole reason as to why he becomes the punisher. that film really seemed to be more about vengeance than punishment, even tho it said otherwise.

 

[ObakeTora]

I can't believe how lame this film was.

 

[sabetoonth]

citizenpain, they killed his whole family to leave him with no one to go to as an anchor, so his whole family is why he did this, because they took everything from him

frank said it best in 04
"upset is that how i feel, i used to get upset when i got a flat tire, i used to get upset when a plane was delayed, i used to get upset when the yankees one the series, so how do i feel now?"
ok maybe not but they did it cuz people with someone to go to dont become "super" vigilantes, people who have nothing left

 

[Nivek]

One of the things I really liked in War Zone was a cannon origin for Frank. I hated the contrived Slaughter in the 2004 film.

 

[S. Grundy]

my main beef with the 2004 origin however is that it wasn't some random act of criminal violence that took frank's family away. that's kind of the whole reason as to why he becomes the punisher. that film really seemed to be more about vengeance than punishment, even tho it said otherwise.

Thing is what Frank does in the film and comics is vengeance, he's just diluted himself into believing it's something more. I would also argue that the reason Frank takes on the mantle of the Punisher isn't because of the randomness of the violence that fell onto him and his family, but how justice failed him.

Had the cops not been bought off in the comics or film version, and actually went after the people who killed his family and sent them away to prison, chances are pretty good there would be no Punisher, Frank would have gotten justice for the death of family. But that's not how it turned out for him. Just go back and read Year One, it isn't until Castle finally loses everything close to him and realizes the cops aren't going to **** that he starts his mission.

 

[citizenpain]

Thing is what Frank does in the film and comics is vengeance, he's just diluted himself into believing it's something more. I would also argue that the reason Frank takes on the mantle of the Punisher isn't because of the randomness of the violence that fell onto him and his family, but how justice failed him.

Had the cops not been bought off in the comics or film version, and actually went after the people who killed his family and sent them away to prison, chances are pretty good there would be no Punisher, Frank would have gotten justice for the death of family. But that's not how it turned out for him. Just go back and read Year One, it isn't until Castle finally loses everything close to him and realizes the cops aren't going to **** that he starts his mission.

well, it is vengeance because he's doing it because of what happened to him, but if he's just killing random criminals then that kinda is punishment... so you could say it's both. as far as why he becomes the punisher, what you said sounds right. the justice system failing him is definitely a part of it. i guess i do need to go back to read that **** again.

 

[Bubonic]

The justice system failed him, and he's crazy.
Serial killer crazy, not drool on yourself crazy.

As for vengeance and punishment... Well, doesn't vengeance already imply there is going to be punishment involved?

There are a bunch of ways to say the same thing.

Bottom line is this, Castle is a man on a mission, and mission that involves eradicating the world of scum. A hopeless battle, but it's his only calling, always had killing around him, got a taste for it, loved the chaos of Vietnam, he wished for it to never end, and ironically he did.

He lost all that should have mattered and launched himself on another war, one of his own making, and one that'll never end.

Frank Castle is a sick, deranged man... The most tortured soul of the Marvel universe imo.

 

[[A]]

The way his family was killed in the other movie. It was a hell of alot more tense and the music was just phenomenal

Agh, not me. I hate sunny places

 

[SWAT]

I thought it worked well for the movie.

 

[Joker]

Haha I thought that was one of the WORST parts of that movie. Especially with him running towards his family as they're getting run over. Wow.

Yeah, f**k Mad Max! Oh wait, it's a classic, and that was a great homage to it. The death of his family in the 04 one was great, and served to show that he was entirely cut off, with no support system of extended family to fall back on.

 

[Nivek]

But the Punisher real origin works just as well, and it's faithfull to the comic book source material.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

But the Punisher real origin works just as well, and it's faithfull to the comic book source material.

Agreed

 

[citizenpain]

i found frank visiting his family's gravesite and the flashbacks in war zone way more tense and touching than the entire family massacre in 04.

 

[The Guard]

That's because there wasn't a psuedo comical "Mom! Grampa's boat!" I won't say that all of the massacre sequence was subpar. Frank's reaction certainly wasn't.

 

[RaZaTrOn]

04 wasn't a Punisher film in my opinion. It was Frank Castle avenging his family. Not once did he go out and properly punish.

Hell it even said at the end of the film. 'Frank Castle is dead call me the Punisher'
Now where's that leave us with the rest of the 116 minutes before. With Frank Castle avenging his family.

I couldn't find a reason as to why 04 Frank wants to go out and kill criminals because it felt like (to me) he just wanted revenge and that is down to the way his family was killed. The origin ruined that film because it took away why Frank should become the Punisher. It wasn't random therefore lost impact in my eyes.

War Zone is by far a better Punisher film.

 

[Rukus]

04 wasn't a Punisher film in my opinion. It was Frank Castle avenging his family. Not once did he go out and properly punish.

Hell it even said at the end of the film. 'Frank Castle is dead call me the Punisher'
Now where's that leave us with the rest of the 116 minutes before. With Frank Castle avenging his family.

I couldn't find a reason as to why 04 Frank wants to go out and kill criminals because it felt like (to me) he just wanted revenge and that is down to the way his family was killed. The origin ruined that film because it took away why Frank should become the Punisher. It wasn't random therefore lost impact in my eyes.

War Zone is by far a better Punisher film.

Exactly having Castles family and himself being a target took away from what the Punisher is. Having him and his family just being caught in the middle of a mob hit showed how random violence destroyed his life. It made it like he had to go out and do something about these criminals who go around without a care such as shooting at each other in a park causing his family to be killed.