What is it you people really want?

[Kable24]

Do you like it? Because, personally I think your last avatar was pretty cool.

it was an ok avatar, but I like my Alex Ross one better.

 

[The Guard]

Am I to understand that you all think that this movie will be all neon? I too am starting to wonder what people want. Supposedly THE PUNISHER wasn't faithful enough, and didn't have enough action.

So Marvel/the filmmakers go "You're right, some things were off", and fans are presented with a movie that obviously is more faithful than it's predecessor with a ton of not only action, but violent action...and there's too much neon, too much action...it would appear some people just hate damn near everything they see.

Directorwise, Lexi Alexander may well be C-list, but she also WANTED to direct The Punisher. She's all but proved she understands (and has reverence for) the character and his world, and she's passionate about it, and to me, that means something. Not everything, as I haven't seen the actual FILM yet. But something, definitely.

Oh, some of it too over the top? I see some have never read a Punisher comic. Ever. And I mean ever. We're talking about a man who tooled around in a freaking battle van fighting supervillains and far-out mobsters for most of his existence.

I also don't get the venom for the script, which was, as we know, an early draft. It's not GREAT, but it's not anything resembling bad, either. It hits all the right character and story points, raises some interesting issues about The Punisher's life and work, and presents The Punisher as he generally should be, a conflict-ridden, and very "gray", one man war on crime.

As for The Punisher taking too much time, killing with things that aren't guns, and not being enough of a soldier...

Well, he's not a soldier. He was one, but now he operates outside the law, and outside society. He is now The Punisher. Lost on people is that this is a man who doesn't just do. He often ENJOYS what he's doing. You think he's doing the chandelier thing because he HAS to? No. He's doing it because he gets a kick out of it, and because it's the kind of thing The Punisher used to do. Kill people in unique ways.

To me, this movie seems like a decent blend of realism and comic book excess. I see both "looking cool with guns" AND straightforward soldier elements married together, which is the right approach, in my mind. And I see a script that takes the idea of Frank Castle seriously.

But hey, there's neon in part of the film. It MUST be awful.

 

[Snikt]

Am I to understand that you all think that this movie will be all neon? I too am starting to wonder what people want. Supposedly THE PUNISHER wasn't faithful enough, and didn't have enough action.

So Marvel/the filmmakers go "You're right, some things were off", and fans are presented with a movie that obviously is more faithful than it's predecessor with a ton of not only action, but violent action...and there's too much neon, too much action...it would appear some people just hate damn near everything they see.

Directorwise, Lexi Alexander may well be C-list, but she also WANTED to direct The Punisher. She's all but proved she understands (and has reverence for) the character and his world, and she's passionate about it, and to me, that means something. Not everything, as I haven't seen the actual FILM yet. But something, definitely.

Oh, some of it too over the top? I see some have never read a Punisher comic. Ever. And I mean ever. We're talking about a man who tooled around in a freaking battle van fighting supervillains and far-out mobsters for most of his existence.

I also don't get the venom for the script, which was, as we know, an early draft. It's not GREAT, but it's not anything resembling bad, either. It hits all the right character and story points, raises some interesting issues about The Punisher's life and work, and presents The Punisher as he generally should be, a conflict-ridden, and very "gray", one man war on crime.

As for The Punisher taking too much time, killing with things that aren't guns, and not being enough of a soldier...

Well, he's not a soldier. He was one, but now he operates outside the law, and outside society. He is now The Punisher. Lost on people is that this is a man who doesn't just do. He often ENJOYS what he's doing. You think he's doing the chandelier thing because he HAS to? No. He's doing it because he gets a kick out of it, and because it's the kind of thing The Punisher used to do. Kill people in unique ways.

To me, this movie seems like a decent blend of realism and comic book excess. I see both "looking cool with guns" AND straightforward soldier elements married together, which is the right approach, in my mind. And I see a script that takes the idea of Frank Castle seriously.

But hey, there's neon in part of the film. It MUST be awful.

Love everything you just said.t:

 

[S. Grundy]

The look of the film is pretty bad, yellow and neon all over the place. It's not so much there's too much action, it's that it looks fairly ******ed. Some people obviously would love the movie to be a action gorefest, I don't. What I wanted out of this movie was a more noir feel to it, something in the vain of vigilante movies like Taxi Driver or Rolling Thunder, also to have it delve deeper into the nature of vigilantism, what is going on in Frank Castle's head.

And Alexander may very well have reverence for the character, does take away the fact I think she was the wrong choice for director. Mark Steven Johnson loved Daredevil and Ghost Rider, Tim Story loved the Fantastic Four, you see where I'm going with that.

Back to the over the top violence in the comic, what works on the page doesn't always work on the screen.

 

[Kable24]

The look of the film is pretty bad, yellow and neon all over the place. It's not so much there's too much action, it's that it looks fairly ******ed. Some people obviously would love the movie to be a action gorefest, I don't. what I wanted out of this movie was a more noir feel to it, something in the vain of vigilante movies like Taxi Driver or Rolling Thunder, also have delve deeper into the nature of vigilantism, what is going on in Frank Castle's head.

And Alexander may very well have reverence for the character, does take away the fact I think she was the wrong choice for director. Mark Steven Johnson loved Daredevil and Ghost Rider, Tim Story loved the Fantastic Four, you see where I'm going with that.

Back to the over the top violence in the comic, what works on the page doesn't always work on the screen.

Love everything you just said.t:

 

[Balthus Dire]

it was an ok avatar, but I like my Alex Ross one better.

Good choice; I didn't like your new one.

 

[The Guard]

The look of the film is pretty bad, yellow and neon all over the place.

One, why is that inherently bad?

And two, you just seem to think that the entire movie is going to look like that. I seriously, seriously doubt it. Trailers have shown there will be other imagery in the movie.

It's not so much there's too much action, it's that it looks fairly ******ed.

That's a relatively broad statement. Specific examples please.

Some people obviously would love the movie to be a action gorefest, I don't. What I wanted out of this movie was a more noir feel to it, something in the vain of vigilante movies like Taxi Driver or Rolling Thunder, also to have it delve deeper into the nature of vigilantism, what is going on in Frank Castle's head.

What you want is all well and good, but it's not really in line with what the character is, and has always been. Since when has The Punisher, as a classic approach to the character, been noir?

And Alexander may very well have reverence for the character, does take away the fact I think she was the wrong choice for director. Mark Steven Johnson loved Daredevil and Ghost Rider, Tim Story loved the Fantastic Four, you see where I'm going with that.

Which would be why I said "Something. Not everything".

DAREDEVIL and FF both had their moments. The weaknesses seen in those films, I just don't see yet with PUNISHER: WAR ZONE.

I am heartened that:

1. This is not a purely commercially driven film, and obviously has not been approached as such
2. The film is not chock full of big name actors who don't fit their roles (Looking at you Jennifer Garner, among others)
3. The script is much better written than DAREDEVIL or FANTASTIC FOUR, more faithful than FF could have hoped to be, and easily as faithful as DD, and less chock full of tired cliche, and "absurd cheese", which both FF and DD suffered from in abundance.

 

[S. Grundy]

I'm just not digging the look. If it's not yellow it's going to have purple or red or green, and neon all over the place for the most part.

The mansion massacre for one, punching in Ink's face, admittingly I should have said for the most part. The online clip while not ******ed, outside Castle seemingly leaving himself wide open on his knees, just doesn't do anything for me. And if that is indicative of the action in the rest of the movie, that's disappointing.

I think the Hellboy approach is a good way of coming at a comic film, a different take for a different medium. Well, the narration in the books lend themselves pretty easily to film noir. That's what I mean when I say I want it to get into Castle's head, to know what he's thinking in the moment.

The move is pretty much being made because the last one did great business on DVD, and Lionsgate is probably hoping for the same on this one. So you could say it's a DVD driven film.

It's not filled with big name actors, because they probably didn't have the budget. This is not a slight on Stevenson or West, because I'm a fan of both. I'm willing to guess once Jane left, a little bit of that extra money for the budget went along with him.

See I think the script is filled with cliche and "absurd cheese".

 

[UltimateJustin]

I am just sick of movies that want to rape my childhood. Why?

Why the raping?

 

[BigCityBoy]

As far as the neon look, there's a reason why the comics have to be colorful. And thats because the colors/neon draws attention, keeps the reader interested and invested in the story because those comic panels are not in motion. With a movie, the color palette doesn't have to be real colorful because its a motion picture, and if its violent, loud, and has a good story, thats all the movie needs. So I would've been happy with a noirish type of tone to it.

 

[KT7777]

The look of the film is pretty bad, yellow and neon all over the place. It's not so much there's too much action, it's that it looks fairly ******ed. Some people obviously would love the movie to be a action gorefest, I don't. What I wanted out of this movie was a more noir feel to it, something in the vain of vigilante movies like Taxi Driver or Rolling Thunder, also to have it delve deeper into the nature of vigilantism, what is going on in Frank Castle's head.

And Alexander may very well have reverence for the character, does take away the fact I think she was the wrong choice for director. Mark Steven Johnson loved Daredevil and Ghost Rider, Tim Story loved the Fantastic Four, you see where I'm going with that.

Back to the over the top violence in the comic, what works on the page doesn't always work on the screen.

I never consider Taxi Driver a action or vigilante film.To me it was a very good drama film.You forgot to mention Henseligh's Punisher too.He didn't know if he want to do a western or a comedy,or a homage film.And by this film being based off the MAX comic it better have the MAX violence and the look.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I am just sick of movies that want to rape my childhood. Why?

Why the raping?

Because you're just so tight assed!

 

[KT7777]

I'm just not digging the look. If it's not yellow it's going to have purple or red or green, and neon all over the place for the most part.

The mansion massacre for one, punching in Ink's face, admittingly I should have said for the most part. The online clip while not ******ed, outside Castle seemingly leaving himself wide open on his knees, just doesn't do anything for me. And if that is indicative of the action in the rest of the movie, that's disappointing.

I think the Hellboy approach is a good way of coming at a comic film, a different take for a different medium. Well, the narration in the books lend themselves pretty easily to film noir. That's what I mean when I say I want it to get into Castle's head, to know what he's thinking in the moment.

The move is pretty much being made because the last one did great business on DVD, and Lionsgate is probably hoping for the same on this one. So you could say it's a DVD driven film.

It's not filled with big name actors, because they probably didn't have the budget. This is not a slight on Stevenson or West, because I'm a fan of both. I'm willing to guess once Jane left, a little bit of that extra money for the budget went along with him.

See I think the script is filled with cliche and "absurd cheese".

I love Hellboy and the movies,but they are very cheesy and fun.I wouldn't say the budget left with Jane.He don't have that type star power yet,if you look at his movie beside the very great The Mist(well 04 Punisher was pretty good too).You will see that his film profile is ok at best not great.And not having too big actors don't mean it will be a bad movie.Desperado had no big actors and a small budget and still rock!As for the Punisher storming the building at the end.Don't forget that he is racing against time to save a woman and child from a cannibal and a craze gangster who he scared.And Frank don't have time to draw a map and think what he have to do,he know he have to act now.Oh yeah don't forget even Thomas Jane thought Henseligh sucked and he thought the last script he wrote sucked.Just go to the Raw boards and look it up,Jane was the only one who wanted the film to take in New York.And he wanted to have a action packed Punisher film that was true to the comics.He also to have a darker and bloodier film(he aslo wanted gore too!)

 

[S. Grundy]

I'm not saying he took a big chunk out of the budget, just maybe a little bit extra money went along with him when he left. I've never read one thing where Jane says the Hensleigh sucks, and Hensleigh script not being used doesn't mean anything, he probably wrote a draft or two and had a disagreement with Lionsgate so on and so forth. Very rarely will a first draft of a script ever be made, the studio will always hire other writers to work/script doctor it.

 

[ObakeTora]

Are we trying to appeal him to elderly comic readers now, or would you say by then it'll be time to rework his origin a tad to keep him realistic?

And he is in the same Universe as mutants, the super soldier serum, there have to be a myriad of explanations why Frank is his age and can perform the massive amounts of punishment.

 

[L3G3NDK1LLER]

I wonder if there were people who saw The Dark Knight, and X2 trailers and thought...Man ya know this movie is gonna be horrible with all this blue filter in the film...

 

[ObakeTora]

wow, its as if you read my mind.

 

[Kable24]

I don't remember seeing any blue filtering in either movie. Looks like they used natural lighting for X2 and went dark lighting with lots of blacks in The Dark Knight.


The neon lighting in PWZ just doesn't look natural.

 

[The Guard]

I'm just not digging the look. If it's not yellow it's going to have purple or red or green, and neon all over the place for the most part.

What are you basing this on? A trailer that clearly shows like, three scenes from the movie throughout the entire thing?

The mansion massacre for one, punching in Ink's face, admittingly I should have said for the most part. The online clip while not ******ed, outside Castle seemingly leaving himself wide open on his knees, just doesn't do anything for me. And if that is indicative of the action in the rest of the movie, that's disappointing.

You've seen the entire mansion massacre? Punching in someone's face is a bit extreme, but pretty cool as well (brass knuckles, maybe).

So you're just...assuming the nature of the action in the rest of the film because Castle, a man with a semi-death wish, leaves himself open in one shot?

See I think the script is filled with cliche and "absurd cheese".

It's been a while since I read it. Short of Jigsaw's Joker ripoff line...where?

Has no one considered that the neon may just be the director's way to create a particular kind of atmosphere in a particular area, and that this isn't the second coming of Joel Schumacher?

 

[Balthus Dire]

I dig the colours. They aren't "bright" or "neon" at all; they are murky and stylistic. Kind of reminds me of something...

Hmmm...I can't quite put my finger on it...

 

[The Guard]

Heh.

 

[L3G3NDK1LLER]

I don't remember seeing any blue filtering in either movie. Looks like they used natural lighting for X2 and went dark lighting with lots of blacks in The Dark Knight.

http://b.imagehost.org/0045/framestore_03.jpg

Theres an example. Its very clear they used a blue filter, the scenes that come to mind is when joker does the magic trick, when Bruce is in his penthouse with bat armor across the floor, and when he is over in China. There are many more.

As for X2, I couldnt find screens from it, but the scene when they are in Alkali Lake when they take Mystique hostage.

Now im not saying this movie will be a Dark Knight quality film. But I just dont think anyone should say it looks bad due to the colors/filters used in the movie.

 

[S. Grundy]

Like I've said just because a couple of comic covers and panels use that type of coloring, doesn't mean that it's a good idea for film.

The blue filter in The Dark Knight is barely noticeable. If the PWZ lighting didn't seem so garish, I probably wouldn't have said anything. But to me it does.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Both Batman Begins and TDK use a lot of yellow/green/brown colours and lights in the night shots of Gotham City, and it makes it look murky and dark. It's a similar vein here, with dark browns and reds in the cityscape at night and green/brown/blues in the indoor stuff. It's not a bright neon colour scheme like you make it out to be.

But, you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Kable24]

What works on the comic book page doesn't always work on the silver screen. But then again you probably wanted Wolverine wearing that yellow spandex.