Best action sequence in any comic book adaptation!!!!

[Dragon]

There's no point trying to defend ock, his fights aren't comic accurate and don't belong in this thread. No one can argue it's comic accurate.

the rest of it is really filler.

....'kay.


Care to qualify that or should we just take your word?

 

[November Rain]

It was actually a far longer point but i thought i would be more concise.

I've done this with you before dragon so I don't know what good it'll lead us to.

It all comes down to interpretation of punch pulling but if he can and has shown in the movie verse to be able to hold back and still quickly take out dangerous figures with a single punch (to a mixed rate of recovery too), then he should have exercised the same with ock. He had more than plenty opportunities

But it's all still irrelevant since if it was to qualify, should have a resemblance to their normal types of encounter. Ock's more dangerous because he simply can be put down, not his resistance to injury but his intellect that doesn't allow you the opportunity, even when you're spidey.

it also lacked the normal type of banter they would normally get involved in as well.

It all gets wrapped up in a big bunch of comic book inaccuracy which no one is really denying. Unless you are implying somewhere down the line spidey and ock have fought silently where spidey has been unable to knock him out in close quarter combat, when the lives of loved ones are at stake?

In that case i sit corrected but it certainly didn't happen on an earlier occasion which was the basis for their first conflict.

as adapted in tas and ultimate spiderman quite well. Again spectacular missed the boat on that but it does tend to be taking some very similar cues with the movies with it having a similar spidey origin and also a similar take on jjj. So i guess it's accurate on that account.

 

[The Joker]

The sign of any great debate..t:



Watching the fight again, he really did act as quickly as he could.

Here's how it unfolds:

1. Ock is climbing the building with May in tow.
2. Spidey lands in front of them and demands her release.
3. Ock drops her ("Butterfingers!" )
4. Spidey fires his weblines and bungees May upward.
5. May hooks the statue with her umbrella (One badass bumbershoot that..)
6. Ock is slamming Spidey into the wall.
7. Spidey stablizes himself, fires the web into Ock's face, draws him in and belts him, sending him falling.
8. Spidey goes after May.

Spidey didn't waste time. Ock was just giving him hell.

Molina's got a good six inches on Tobey and is at least 6' 1", maybe two. If you're bigger than him, the NBA has a spot for you t:



But strength has to be controlled, which slows him down. And relfexes are reactionary, not anticipatory. Granted, he has his spider sense, but that still makes Ock's tents a handful.






As this image will show t:

Ock is out and the tentacles are lifting him. He then awakens. If he were already conscious, his head would be looking up.



In the next exchange, they're together tumbling down the wall, so it would've been hard for Spidey to get leverage. Then Ock throws him to the building across the street.

Dragon, you the man

 

[Dragon]

It was actually a far longer point but i thought i would be more concise.

I've done this with you before dragon so I don't know what good it'll lead us to.

It all comes down to interpretation of punch pulling but if he can and has shown in the movie verse to be able to hold back and still quickly take out dangerous figures with a single punch (to a mixed rate of recovery too), then he should have exercised the same with ock. He had more than plenty opportunities

I would say that pulling punches against an easy target is very different than pulling punches against a target that is hurling robotic arms at you that you have to dodge. Pulling punches against a target standing on the ground is different from a target that's scaling a wall. Ock's movements are far more unpredictable than your average hood. So hitting him effectively is definitely going to be harder. In fact, when Spidey faces a normal crook he's pretty much certain he's going to land, so he can easily judge how much power to put behind the punch. With Ock, he doesn't know if he'll land a clean shot or if the tents are going to slightly move Ock out of range, will grab Spidey's arm, etc.

But it's all still irrelevant since if it was to qualify, should have a resemblance to their normal types of encounter. Ock's more dangerous because he simply can be put down, not his resistance to injury but his intellect that doesn't allow you the opportunity, even when you're spidey.

That's not true at all. Spidey lands plenty in their comic fights, which Ock somehow survives. For example, in ASM #90, Spidey pulls Ock by the tentacles and slams him into a brick chimney. He's stunned, but not out.

it also lacked the normal type of banter they would normally get involved in as well.

Well, that's a problem of the entire film series, not just with Ock. In fact, that's a problem of every comic book movie.

It all gets wrapped up in a big bunch of comic book inaccuracy which no one is really denying. Unless you are implying somewhere down the line spidey and ock have fought silently where spidey has been unable to knock him out in close quarter combat, when the lives of loved ones are at stake?

You mean like in ASM #54 when May stumbles upon Spidey and Ock fighting, collapses and Ock escapes? Then yes. They were at close quarters, and Spidey didn't knock him out.

And you're talking about two different mediums. You have to have dialogue on a comic page. Words fuel the medium. But it's harder to show someone speaking when ACTUALLY IN MOTION. There's no doubt that the dialogue in comics often can't match the timing of the movement. They'll have several seconds worth of dialogue attached to a motion that would be a fraction of a second.

In that case i sit corrected but it certainly didn't happen on an earlier occasion which was the basis for their first conflict.



as adapted in tas and ultimate spiderman quite well. Again spectacular missed the boat on that but it does tend to be taking some very similar cues with the movies with it having a similar spidey origin and also a similar take on jjj. So i guess it's accurate on that account.

I'm not really sure what you mean here.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea but how did May manage to hold on? Has she got superhuman strength as well?

 

[November Rain]

I would say that pulling punches against an easy target is very different than pulling punches against a target that is hurling robotic arms at you that you have to dodge. Pulling punches against a target standing on the ground is different from a target that's scaling a wall. Ock's movements are far more unpredictable than your average hood. So hitting him effectively is definitely going to be harder. In fact, when Spidey faces a normal crook he's pretty much certain he's going to land, so he can easily judge how much power to put behind the punch. With Ock, he doesn't know if he'll land a clean shot or if the tents are going to slightly move Ock out of range, will grab Spidey's arm, etc.
[/spoiler]
This is all the more reason why getting in one good hit to take him out is more important.

That's not true at all. Spidey lands plenty in their comic fights, which Ock somehow survives. For example, in ASM #90, Spidey pulls Ock by the tentacles and slams him into a brick chimney. He's stunned, but not out.

how many times has spidey landed 12 unanswered hits? like this

you're also going on about pulling punches but spidey pulled ock off a building 3 times in that film and knocked him off twice. He tumbled onto that train with no disregard for ock's safety, nor did he was he was attempting to get may. The

Well, that's a problem of the entire film series, not just with Ock. In fact, that's a problem of every comic book movie.

You mean like in ASM #54 when May stumbles upon Spidey and Ock fighting, collapses and Ock escapes? Then yes. They were at close quarters, and Spidey didn't knock him out.

close quarters as in ock couldn't use his tentacles? I have yet to read that but spidey's been way inside ocks space which has rendered his tentacles fairly useless to defence against body blows.

And you're talking about two different mediums. You have to have dialogue on a comic page. Words fuel the medium. But it's harder to show someone speaking when ACTUALLY IN MOTION. There's no doubt that the dialogue in comics often can't match the timing of the movement. They'll have several seconds worth of dialogue attached to a motion that would be a fraction of a second.

Dialogue can be included in the movies effectively, it's done in the cartoons, animation has similar boundaries to motion film with regards to dialogue and timing.

I'm not really sure what you mean here.

It's kinda obvious.

Spidey's hit ock directly more than any other adversary, he's tag sandman while falling and getting attacks and it's shown to slow him down, he's tagged venom to effect to slow him down, he's knocked down harry, made norman beg but everyone is making excuses for ock. The only one without powers, especially when he's comatosing humans left right and centre.



Spidey doesn't kick the crap out of ock on their first encounter, the mere fact ock's on the defensive on anything isn't right.

he gets all the leverage and time in the world in that scene to take him out FOR HIS AUNT's LIFE.

take that and take this and please tell me how many times ock gets punched in the face and you tell me whether you think that's acceptable punishment for yourself to give someone in a fight. Not spiderman, yourself.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_NLgY6f60CA&feature=related

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Well, that's you then, isn't it. Of course I'd be more scared and concerned if it was one of my loved ones in danger, but I'd be giving full effort to saving them, loved one or not.

And thankfully, I'd say Spidey does, too.

But thats the thing, he seemed more concerned with fighting Ock than saving Aunt May in the fight to me.

Examples of when he used his body to fight Spidey, please. And be very specific.

Watch both fights specifially, he uses his arms to push, punch and even elbow in the 2.1 version.

Wrong. He was electrocuted, and so were the tentacles. If you recall, it was the tentacle piercing the electric cable that caused him to get electrocuted. They were temporarily knocked out of whack, too. Watch them struggling to come back to life when Ock is sat there after being electrocuted.

That's what allowed Peter the chance to reason with Ock.

The tentacles were moving straight after, just about, but moving, were as Ock wasnt.

The sign of any great debate..t:

Ha ha,

Watching the fight again, he really did act as quickly as he could.

Here's how it unfolds:

1. Ock is climbing the building with May in tow.
2. Spidey lands in front of them and demands her release.
3. Ock drops her ("Butterfingers!" )
4. Spidey fires his weblines and bungees May upward.
5. May hooks the statue with her umbrella (One badass bumbershoot that..)
6. Ock is slamming Spidey into the wall.
7. Spidey stablizes himself, fires the web into Ock's face, draws him in and belts him, sending him falling.
8. Spidey goes after May.

Spidey didn't waste time. Ock was just giving him hell.

It was okay up until that point, but why didnt he try and sock Ock again after that? When they were both falling, he could have left Ock to fall and webbed after May, or at least tried to.

Molina's got a good six inches on Tobey and is at least 6' 1", maybe two. If you're bigger than him, the NBA has a spot for you t:

I am 6'1/2 myself, so he is the same size as me, just has a smaller build.

But strength has to be controlled, which slows him down. And relfexes are reactionary, not anticipatory. Granted, he has his spider sense, but that still makes Ock's tents a handful.

They were a handful, but he had multiple occasions to knock him out in both fights.

As this image will show t:

Ock is out and the tentacles are lifting him. He then awakens. If he were already conscious, his head would be looking up.

Ock wasnt out, he gets up the same time as the tentacles, he was just down after a heavy hit, but there is no evidence to suggest he is out at all.

In the next exchange, they're together tumbling down the wall, so it would've been hard for Spidey to get leverage. Then Ock throws him to the building across the street.

As I said above though when they are tumbling Spidey could have left Ock and at least tried to web to Aunt May.

 

[Chris Wallace]

 

[The Joker]

But thats the thing, he seemed more concerned with fighting Ock than saving Aunt May in the fight to me.

What are you talking about? Aunt May wasn't in danger dangling from her brolly. There was a safe ledge right beneath her feet.

Of course Spidey is going to be more concerned stopping a dangerous super villain from trying to get at her again.

Watch both fights specifially, he uses his arms to push, punch and even elbow in the 2.1 version.

I just watched them. Never saw him punch or elbow Spidey at all. I need screenshots for proof of this. I did see him push Spidey away, when Spidey was right on top of him in close contact. And it was the actual tentacles that wrenched Spidey off him. Not Ock himself. The tentacles tossed Spidey away across to the other building.

Ock just motioned the gesture with them. Like when he was wrenching the safe door off in the bank.

The tentacles were moving straight after, just about, but moving, were as Ock wasnt.

Man, are we watching the same movie? The tentacles tried to move, one lifted up about two inches, and then fell down again into the water.

Ock was very much moving. You see his head swaying as he regains consciousness and opens his eyes. The tentacles were all flat out lifeless.

Do I have to get a screencap to prove you wrong, or do you want to continue splitting more hairs?

 

[November Rain]

I hope this isn't your entry chris, I just really hope...

the scale, pace and resolution of it all is all out of place...

 

[Chris Wallace]

I just posted it. I didn't cap it.

 

[Dragon]

This is all the more reason why getting in one good hit to take him out is more important.

And he certainly tried. "The best laid plans of mice and men..."

how many times has spidey landed 12 unanswered hits? like this

12 unanswered shots like what?

you're also going on about pulling punches but spidey pulled ock off a building 3 times in that film and knocked him off twice. He tumbled onto that train with no disregard for ock's safety, nor did he was he was attempting to get may. The

When Spidey punched Ock and Ock fell from the building, he likely didn't mean for Ock to fall, it's just what happened, and he had to focus on May first. As for the other times, he was falling with Ock. So he could trust that either he or Ock's tentacles would save Ock.

close quarters as in ock couldn't use his tentacles? I have yet to read that but spidey's been way inside ocks space which has rendered his tentacles fairly useless to defence against body blows.

Yes. Spidey had gotten past his tentacles. They were in Aunt May's house, in Peter's old bedroom, which Ock was renting. There wasn't any space between them. And Spidey nails him with a clean shot here as well, without Ock going out.

Dialogue can be included in the movies effectively, it's done in the cartoons, animation has similar boundaries to motion film with regards to dialogue and timing.

But dialogue would've slowed the scene down. And the action scenes in the animated show don't even begin to compare to the ones in Spidey 2.

It's kinda obvious.

Spidey's hit ock directly more than any other adversary, he's tag sandman while falling and getting attacks and it's shown to slow him down, he's tagged venom to effect to slow him down, he's knocked down harry, made norman beg but everyone is making excuses for ock. The only one without powers, especially when he's comatosing humans left right and centre.

Everyone you mentioned are Superhuman, and so the punch-pulling would be considerably less if at all. And Spidey was pretty angry at Norman, consdiering he made a direct threat TO KILL the woman he loved. And what "humans" is he comatosing? How many times has he even fought humans in the movies? The crooks in Spidey 1 was it, and they were alot easier to land clean shots on than Ock. I'm also guessing they weren't as "committed" to their cause as Ock, which can make one more resistant to pain.

Spidey doesn't kick the crap out of ock on their first encounter, the mere fact ock's on the defensive on anything isn't right.

Okay- I'm guessing you mean that because Spidey didn't beat Ock ion their first fight in ASM #3 then it isn't right.

If so, this movie had no place for such an encounter. And note this: In ASM #3 Spidey has only at best a couple months of experience when encountering Ock. In Spidey 2, he has two years. And Ock has NO combat experience. So that he gives Spidey the battle he does is surprising enough.

he gets all the leverage and time in the world in that scene to take him out FOR HIS AUNT's LIFE.

Well, maybe that's why they didn't include some of the additional stuff in the theatrical film. It certainly isn't because the footage didn't look good. But obviously, the leverage he got wasn't enough. Just because YOU THINK he did, doesn't mean he did. If you watch a boxing match, fighters often land what appear to be devastating blows, but the opponent shrugs it off.

And another thing- THIS IS A MOVIE. Maybe they were thinking of entertaining the audience with some spectacular fight footage, (And thus being true to the comics) rather than a boring scene of Spider-Man saving May.

take that and take this and please tell me how many times ock gets punched in the face and you tell me whether you think that's acceptable punishment for yourself to give someone in a fight. Not spiderman, yourself.

Acceptable punishment for ME is what's enough to end the conflict. And that appears to be what Spidey is doing.

 

[November Rain]

And he certainly tried. "The best laid plans of mice and men..."

He doesn't because he gets the opportunity but doesn't take it. Again 12 odd chances, all of a similar calibre to the one which knocks ock off the building

12 unanswered shots like what?

like the one from spidey 2.1, 2nd vid in first quote

When Spidey punched Ock and Ock fell from the building, he likely didn't mean for Ock to fall, it's just what happened, and he had to focus on May first. As for the other times, he was falling with Ock. So he could trust that either he or Ock's tentacles would save Ock.

if he didn't mean for him to fall, he would have saved him, he looked and didn't care and went straight after may. He wasn't in any shock over his actions, nor did he attempt any sort of saviour or web net or nothing.

Spidey's hit made ock's conciousness let go of the wall with the tentacle grip, the notion the tentacles are independant of ock in battle are negated with that point.

Yes. Spidey had gotten past his tentacles. They were in Aunt May's house, in Peter's old bedroom, which Ock was renting. There wasn't any space between them. And Spidey nails him with a clean shot here as well, without Ock going out.

a clean shot or 10/12 clean shots including head butts knees, swinging backfists and unanswered hits to the face?

But dialogue would've slowed the scene down. And the action scenes in the animated show don't even begin to compare to the ones in Spidey 2.

This is just opinion, we can go back and forth with no resolution. I believe elements of it could have been there as playing to his ego or embarassing him has always been part of spidey's relationship with him. I don't think it's too detrimental to add elements of it in parts.

Everyone you mentioned are Superhuman, and so the punch-pulling would be considerably less if at all.

a punch is pulled by its swing, spidey's swinging more wrecklessly at ock than any of these opponents mentioned.

And Spidey was pretty angry at Norman, consdiering he made a direct threat TO KILL the woman he loved.

That's the point. Osborn is ThREATENING TO KILL. OCK was ABOUT TO KILL, he dropped her remember and left her hanging. And dragged spidey back when he went to get her. Spidey went CRAZY on him in anger but still couldn't knock him out.

comparing those two scenes does that make sense at all he couldn't knock out a human with all that going on.

you keep bringing up elements that alleviate the annoyance of it all, you're saying he would pull more punches against a human and not knock her out when his aunt's life is in danger more than he would against a superhuman dude in armour who is merely threatening it happening?

Would you be more pissed if someone threatened to attack a family member or was actually attacking them?

And what "humans" is he comatosing? How many times has he even fought humans in the movies? The crooks in Spidey 1 was it, and they were alot easier to land clean shots on than Ock.

Two set of crook attacks, one were about to take out MJ, he knocked them all out and didn't waste time because he knew her life was in danger, He acted responsibly to end the conflict quickly. He even acted before he could get his mask on because of the urgency.

now how is that any different to ock. in all three fights with ock, he wasn't searching long to land a punch, he was landing pretty much everyone he threw and he threw crap loads. All clean, non blocked or from silly angles, all straight on the jaw. Jabs Uppercuts, hooks, drop kicks, back fists, headbutts.


ha, harry hit his head twice in spidey 3 and he was in hospital, ock too way more punishment that that, way way way more.

I'm also guessing they weren't as "committed" to their cause as Ock, which can make one more resistant to pain.

Dragon why are you making up logic here. THere's inconsistencies within the films and motives and comic back story and you're coming here with commitment vs pain resistance?

What about harry then, he was commited for years to kill spidey for killing his dad, with the serum flowing through him, that means that he would have never lost conciousness in the entire film.

this is like the worst tangent ever and it's why i didn't want this conversation. Everyone is picking up anything to excuse the fact it shouldn't have gone down that way and was an oversight for entertainment value, pure and simple.

Okay- I'm guessing you mean that because Spidey didn't beat Ock ion their first fight in ASM #3 then it isn't right.

If so, this movie had no place for such an encounter. And note this: In ASM #3 Spidey has only at best a couple months of experience when encountering Ock. In Spidey 2, he has two years. And Ock has NO combat experience. So that he gives Spidey the battle he does is surprising enough.

If spidey had all this experience, it's even MORE reason for him to take him out quickly and stop Wasting time when his aunt's life is in the balance.

again it's a double edged sword you are using for your defence here. He knows the importance of taking out people quickly so bystanders don't get hurt, especially his very own AUNT, who he had nearly killed moments earlier.

Well, maybe that's why they didn't include some of the additional stuff in the theatrical film. It certainly isn't because the footage didn't look good.

This thread isn't disputing the aesthetics of it, it woudl be great for a character like scorpion who has and appendage and relevant super strength, it isn't an ock encounter though, especially an initial one.

But obviously, the leverage he got wasn't enough. Just because YOU THINK he did, doesn't mean he did. If you watch a boxing match, fighters often land what appear to be devastating blows, but the opponent shrugs it off.

We're not talking about two human beings in the prime of their life here, were are talking about the logistics of someone who is Strong enough to STOP A RUNAWAY train knocking out an ACADEMIC.

not while jumping or dashing or even falling. Legs-Planted-knocking-them-off-their-feet hard

In smallville, clark's tapped humans on the head and knocked them out 'carefully' and casually.

And another thing- THIS IS A MOVIE. Maybe they were thinking of entertaining the audience with some spectacular fight footage, (And thus being true to the comics) rather than a boring scene of Spider-Man saving May.

Alright here you've done two things.

You've assumed any alternative to what would be shown is boring, even though many people on here have stated a proper classic encounter between ock and spidey would be something they would still like to watch

You've hit the nail on the head, they forsake classic material for apparent entertainment. That means it doesn't belong in this discussion. You've ruled it out of discussion about joint entertainment AND accuracy. So there's not much point continuing with it

Acceptable punishment for ME is what's enough to end the conflict. And that appears to be what Spidey is doing.

Fine, if you say so.

You've already counted these fights out on the basis they were designed for entertainment and since we've both said they aren't like classic ock encounters in set up or with quips then the rest is semantics. like i stated initially.

sorry but when someone lifts someoen off the ground with a punch, or knocks them right off a building, you can't argue punch pulling validity (even at 10% or 1%, if you are punching someone with enough force to knock them off a building or off their feet, it's enough to end a fight). Especially a 6' 1 person as you like to remind us.

 

[Mutagen]

Maybe not as good as the Spidey vs. Ock fight, but the black suit vs. Sandman was more realistic, and was awesome.

 

[Hmarrs]

Maybe not as good as the Spidey vs. Ock fight, but the black suit vs. Sandman was more realistic, and was awesome.

Wow how could I have forgotten that fight.That fight was awesome.
What about the last fight in Spiderman 3?I thought it was awesome and diffenitly on comic book scale.
The only thing was I felt Spidey took too much of a beating(especially when that Sandmonster was pounding him) to be believeable but then I really don't know what his endurance level is.I just don't get the feel that he might die in a fight.The last time I felt that was at the end of part 2 when he was holding up that wall so it wouldn't fall on MJ.
It does seem however that his endurance seems to be alot more in the movies than in the comics.Unless the movie has his strength
in correct porportions to a spider than the comics.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea I think Spidey does have superhuman durability as well. Not sure what the limit of that is though.

 

[Hmarrs]

I thought about this in Spiderman 3 for accuracy.

Sandman and Hydro man once combined in Amaz.Sp.218 to make this creature.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I forgot all about that.

 

[Be Snikt-Happy]

Im not even a big fan of the Punisher but the Punisher scene when he fights the big Russian with humorous opera music in the back was great. All the other fight scenes I've seen in comic movies all kinda remind me of each other.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

What are you talking about? Aunt May wasn't in danger dangling from her brolly. There was a safe ledge right beneath her feet.

Of course Spidey is going to be more concerned stopping a dangerous super villain from trying to get at her again.

Spidey obviously didnt know there was a ledge beneath her, otherwise he wouldnt have gone after her at all. And how safe is an old woman hanging from an umbrella please?

I just watched them. Never saw him punch or elbow Spidey at all. I need screenshots for proof of this. I did see him push Spidey away, when Spidey was right on top of him in close contact. And it was the actual tentacles that wrenched Spidey off him. Not Ock himself. The tentacles tossed Spidey away across to the other building.

Ock just motioned the gesture with them. Like when he was wrenching the safe door off in the bank.

But Ock used his arms to push on Spidey as well, and watch the 2.1 version when Spidey is knocked off the train first time and comes back and has his arm around Ock's neck after he webs, he elbows Spiderman in the side just before the tentacles grab Spidey are swinging him back and forth. No screen caps needed.

Man, are we watching the same movie? The tentacles tried to move, one lifted up about two inches, and then fell down again into the water.

Ock was very much moving. You see his head swaying as he regains consciousness and opens his eyes. The tentacles were all flat out lifeless.

Do I have to get a screencap to prove you wrong, or do you want to continue splitting more hairs?

They werent lifeless when they grabbed Spidey just after, but i'll give you this one, they did seem out. BUT, by the evidence we are given in the movie, the arms cant move Ock when he is out.

 

[Eggyman]

One of my favourite fight scenes is the loft fight in The Crow. You know, where Draven walks in and there's about 30 guys sat round the table.

'Well you can't have him.' *sh-- hits the fan*

I mean, there's guns, swords, martial arts... absolutely brilliant. Brandon Lee had some amazing natural talent, combined with movie magic made it absolutely breathtaking. Only downside was that it was about 2/3s through the film, so the final battle, if you can call it that, never really stood a chance in the sense of action so had to rely more on emotive substance.

Great film overall, and a brilliant fight scene.

 

[The Joker]

Spidey obviously didnt know there was a ledge beneath her, otherwise he wouldnt have gone after her at all.

Of course he would have. She was in great danger being in such close proximity to Ock and the battle he was having with him. Would you want your relative so close to a super villain fight where they can easily be grabbed again, and Aunt May was grabbed again by Ock.

And how safe is an old woman hanging from an umbrella please?

Very safe, as the movie showed when she slipped down easily onto the ledge unharmed.

But Ock used his arms to push on Spidey as well

I never saw him do that. Spidey was right on top of Ock. Of course Ock is going to have his hands on Spidey, too. What's he going to do, keep them limply by his sides?

But he never used his hands to combat Spidey.

and watch the 2.1 version when Spidey is knocked off the train first time and comes back and has his arm around Ock's neck after he webs, he elbows Spiderman in the side just before the tentacles grab Spidey are swinging him back and forth. No screen caps needed.

Yes, there is. I want proof of this. And since you're basing this on the 2.1 version, I'll reiterate what Dragon said and say there's a reason Raimi left that footage out.

They werent lifeless when they grabbed Spidey just after

Yeah after. After Ock and Spidey shared a little conversation. But they were down right after Ock was electrocuted.

BUT, by the evidence we are given in the movie, the arms cant move Ock when he is out.

What evidence? Ock was only totally out once in the movie. In the hospital. In the electrocution scene, the arms were incapacitated, too. They couldn't function properly right after it. They were flat out lifeless. See:

And Ock was conscious.

 

[Chris Wallace]

One of my favourite fight scenes is the loft fight in The Crow. You know, where Draven walks in and there's about 30 guys sat round the table.

'Well you can't have him.' *sh-- hits the fan*

I mean, there's guns, swords, martial arts... absolutely brilliant. Brandon Lee had some amazing natural talent, combined with movie magic made it absolutely breathtaking. Only downside was that it was about 2/3s through the film, so the final battle, if you can call it that, never really stood a chance in the sense of action so had to rely more on emotive substance.

Great film overall, and a brilliant fight scene.

That was cool.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I've watched the film many times and I'm still never quite sure what the hell happens there.

Which is what I meant.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Of course he would have. She was in great danger being in such close proximity to Ock and the battle he was having with him. Would you want your relative so close to a super villain fight where they can easily be grabbed again, and Aunt May was grabbed again by Ock.

NO I would incapacitate the villain as quickly as possible and then get away from there.

Very safe, as the movie showed when she slipped down easily onto the ledge unharmed.

Come on Joker, neither her nor Peter/Spiderman knew of the ledge, so she wasnt safe at all, otherwise she wouldnt have been screaming help me throughout the fight and wouldnt have thanked the statue.

I never saw him do that. Spidey was right on top of Ock. Of course Ock is going to have his hands on Spidey, too. What's he going to do, keep them limply by his sides?

But he never used his hands to combat Spidey.

Watch the scene again, he elbows him in the side when Spidey is behind him.

Yes, there is. I want proof of this. And since you're basing this on the 2.1 version, I'll reiterate what Dragon said and say there's a reason Raimi left that footage out.

There is also a reason he put it back in, same with the extended parts of the earlier fight scene.

Yeah after. After Ock and Spidey shared a little conversation. But they were down right after Ock was electrocuted.

Thought I already conceded this point?

What evidence? Ock was only totally out once in the movie. In the hospital. In the electrocution scene, the arms were incapacitated, too. They couldn't function properly right after it. They were flat out lifeless. See:

And Ock was conscious.

THAT is the evidence, if they could move him, why didnt they before the Doctor's, etc even came into the room?