Sequels Best Story for SM4?

I should've phrased it better... but I really don't see the point with Rhino coming in the first five minutes and robbing a bank... I mean it could be done... but its just to fill screen time in my opinion... SM3 had a slow beginning no? Thats along the lines of what I meant... cmon Spidey with the speech... MJ's pathetic performance... it was really lack luster in my book... but you know why it was like that... that GG2 fight wasn't until twenty minutes in... and on Black Cat... why write out a character like Gwen? Will we ever see one of Parker's loves ever killed off? If Gwen is out then I am afraid not... and three love interests in one movie is overkill... I don't see the point of Black Cat unless its just a short cameo by Felicia to setup the character... she can still be featured in two films... SM4 won't be the last if things go to plan

I don't think Black Cat needs to be written as a love interest. She should be written as a lust interest. I mean, would it totally kill the goody-two-shoes nature of the character to introduce someone who he really just wants to bang? A character who just oozes sexuality, whom Peter can't help but be turned on by? I don't think every beautiful girl they introduce should be a legitimate "love" interest. I mean, come on.

But Black Cat could certainly use her sexuality to manipulate him and mess with him, but she develops as a character and she eventually proves to be a flawed, but ultimately good-hearted person and a useful ally.
 
Here's my short summary for Spider-Man 4

-Film starts with Spider-Man taking down a small-time criminal known as the Shocker. This movie takes place a year and a half after the events of the 3rd one.

-Spidey finds out that Shocker is using weapons from an Oscorp executive named Allister Smythe, Spidey promises to Captain Stacy to further investigate this matter

-Peter is now a staff photographer at the Bugle, and is Dr.Connor's assistant at the ESU labs. Though he can balance two jobs and his responsibility as Spider-Man, MJ is taking a break from him due to the fact she's in LA, so Parker's feelings of loss is magnified due to this fact. Though a budding relationship with Gwen Stacy and the thrill and duty of being Spider-Man still keeps Peter very optomistic.

-Peter continues his investigation on Allister Smythe, it turns out that Smythe is running an illegal weapons ring. Spider-Man catches Allister in the act at the docks, but Allister sends out robotic weapons called slayers to finish Spider-Man off. Spider-Man is then aided by a mysterious figure who leaves him candid pictures of Peter Parker. It seems that Spider-Man has a stalker.

-Dr. Connors builds a machine that combines the symbiote DNA and Lizard DNA. This machine produces a vaccine that allows for the regeneration of any human limb or organ

-The machine explodes during its test run, Spidey arrives at the nick of time to save everyone except Dr. Connors, who is exposed to a concentrated gaseous form of the vaccine. This allows for Connors to grow back his missing arm and slowly turn into the Lizard.

-Peter and Gwen notice the horrible changes in Connors physiology, so they work against a clock for a way to stop Connors' mutation. Connors begs Peter and Gwen to lock him within his lab due to him feeling the animalistic rage to kill. Peter figures out the only way to stop the mutation is to severe the main area of infection, which is Connor's newly regenerated arm.

-Before Peter can do anything to help, Peter goes out for a night time swing and is intercepted by his stalker. His stalker turns out to be Eddie Brock, who waited for all this time to have Peter all to himself. He explains that the symbiote fully merged with him through his disintegration in the explosion. The symbiote absorbed his remains and thus Eddie and the symbiote are now one. Spider-Man and Eddie Brock (who now calls himself Venom) proceed to fight rooftop to rooftop, across the New York skyline.

-As Venom and Spider-Man continue to tangle atop Skyscrapers, Connors' fully transforms into the Lizard and escapes the lab, this escape leaves Gwen Stacy seriously injured.

-Spider-Man finally leads Venom back to the church from the 3rd movie, using the bells to temporarily paralyze Venom for the time being. Spider-Man rushes back to the lab to find Gwen losing blood and Connors gone, Spider-Man rushes Gwen to the ER, as he goes over to downtown, where the "Lizard-man" is causing havoc. What Spider-Man doesn't know is that Venom was able to fight off the sonic frequencies and follow him. Venom now knows about Gwen being hurt, and the little Eddie Brock that is left in Venom drives him thirsty for revenge. Meanwhile, Smythe is now bent on destroying Spider-Man due to the fact that Spider-Man knows his secret smuggling ring, so he sends an army of slayers into the city to look for and kill Spider-Man.

-This all leads up to a final battle in the Heart of New York city. This battle starts off with the Lizard making mince meat out of dozens of cops, being blinded by his rage. It is during this attack that the Lizard kills Captain Stacy. Then Spider-Man arrives at the scene, only to be late and left with dozens of cops dead and a dying Captain Stacy. Captain Stacy with his last breath tells Spider-Man that the Lizard escaped into the sewers, and that he is the only one who can stop the creature. Spider-Man then goes after the Lizard in the sewers, only to be joined by Venom, who wants to kill the Lizard for hurting Gwen. The Slayers also show up, after picking up his trace from earlier. This results in an epic showdown that involves lots of web swinging through complex pipe systems, bullet and missile dodging, and symbiote shape shifting techniques. Spider-Man, Venom, and Lizard all destroy the slayers trying to get each other, and Spider-Man and Venom briefly team up to try and sever Lizard's arm to get Connors' back to normal. During the struggle, the Lizard bites into Venom and tears a piece of the symbiote off. This little piece of symbiote then scurries off into another sewer system. Venom then finally severes The Lizard's arm, and finally then transforms back into Connors. Venom still insists on killing Connors, but then Spider-Man begs him not to. Naturally Venom doesn't comply and proceeds to attack Spider-Man. Spider-Man grabs a pipe and starts to create noise, weakening Venom. Venom then becomes a blob and escapes through another pipe system.

-Peter returns to the hospital to check on Gwen, who is starting to recover from her injury. Peter breaks the bad news to Gwen. Gwen is naturally devastated and vengeful, swearing it was Spider-Man's fault that her father died. Peter comforts her, which leads them into a kiss. Peter promises Gwen that he'll always be there for her and that he'll do the best he can to be there for her no matter what. Peter returns to his apartment, only to see that MJ is back from her trip, they embrace, but Peter is obviously now in trouble after his earlier encounter with Gwen. The movie ends with Spider-Man swinging across the city, talking about choices yet again. He says that a good choice or a bad choice can truly make a difference. He has made some great choices in the past, he has chosen to becomea hero, sacrificing a normal life for the greater good. Despite of all this, he knows that one bad choice can take away all the good that has happened to him in the past. He just hopes that he hasn't made that bad choice yet. Because if he has, only more will be added to his already tangled web.
 
Okay, so the movie opens with Peter explaining what has happened since SM3. He and MJ aren't dating anymore, but are still friends, and she is in LA shooting a movie. He and Gwen have become good friends, but are not yet dating or anything. He says that forgiveness did not come easily to them, but they eventually forgave him and that he will never forget the mistakes that he made. He is now a staff photographer for the Bugle, but is still living in his same apartment.

In the beginning, Dr. Connors and Peter talk after class and Connors tells Peter of his idea of using Lizard DNA to regrow his arm. Peter says to be careful. On his way home, someone pushes Peter into the street in front of a car. Peter looks but doesn't see anyone he knows, so he figures it must have been an accident and forgets it. Cut to an mansion somewhere, with Kraven the hunter walking around his trophy room, with the heads of every big game animal around. He stops in front of a painting of his parents, and says that he will do his best to live up to their legacy, and that he will go after the Spider-man.

The next day, Peter is driving (on a new motorcycle, not his old scooter), to pick up Gwen to go a museum for a class assignment. He goes to her house, and Captain Stacy answers the door. He mentions that Kraven has come to hunt Spider-man, and that he thinks it is odd. Peter agrees. Stacy says that he wishes he knew more about Spider-man, because he seems to be a good fellow. Gwen comes down and they leave to go to the museum.

Cut to Dr. Connors in his lab, finishing his serum and he tells his secretary to go on her lunch break. He takes the serum, and in a fantastic transformation becomes the Lizard, who is happy to be free, and climbs down the building and proceeds into the sewer.

Cut to Peter and Gwen at the museum, where they are admiring an exhibit on holographic technology. Suddenly Peter sees Norman Osborn standing across the room. He runs towards him to say something, but suddenly he is gone. Peter stands dumbfounded, but Gwen pulls him out of it and they go on with their day. He takes her home, where Captain Stacy and Peter talk a bit about Spider-man, and Stacy tells Peter that he is happy that his daughter is friends with someone so smart. He tells Peter about a break in at Dr. Connors lab, and that Dr. Connors is missing. Peter goes (as Spider-man) to the lab, and looks over the notes and formulas that he finds, and figures out what happens. He is considering places to look for Connors when Kraven jumps in. They fight, Kraven puts up a decent fight but is really no trouble for Spider-man. Spidey knocks him out, and leaves. As he is swinging through the city, something cuts his web and makes him fall, but he catches himself and goes on.

The next day at the Bugle, Jameson explains that he has been seeing a fantastic psychiatrist, and that he no longer hates Spider-man. He is almost friendly, which makes everyone nervous. Comedic scenes ensue here, until Spider-man notices Doctor Octupus crawling along a building across the street. He makes an excuse and rushes out, gets in costume and goes for Ock. Spidey approaches and asks Octavius what he is doing, but Ock just grins and starts attacking Spider-man. They are fighting on a rooftop and the cops show up below, wanting to shoot Ock but not wanting to risk hitting Spidey. Spidey finally gets a perfect shot at Ock's face, but somehow misses and hits a stone gargoyle, which falls towards a young boy until Captain Stacy pushes the boy out of the way and gets hit. Spider-man rushes to Stacy to help him, and carries him to the hospital. On the way, Stacy says "Be good to her, Peter". Stacy is dies on the way. Spider-man searches for Octupus all night, but cannot find him anywhere.

Gwen is crushed by this and hates Spider-man. Peter is afraid of the same thing happening that happened to Harry, so does everything he can to be good to her. They end up kissing and realizing they love each other.

Kraven in the meantime is distraught by the fact that he didn't stand a chance against Spider-man. He is wandering the city, when he ends up on a bridge by a river. He is contemplating suicide when he notices a huge Lizard in a drainpipe. He goes to investigate and discovers the Lizard. He escapes the Lizard but decides to go public with his encounter and hunt him.

Peter is torn between consoling Gwen and finding Connors. It has now been over a week since anyone has seen him, and so Peter goes looking. It is then that he notices Kraven's proclamation to hunt the Lizard, and so realizes he must find Lizard first. While swinging, the Green Goblin soars in on his glider and attacks. They fight in midair for a while, until the Goblin suggests they check out the George Washington bridge. On top of the bridge is Gwen Stacy, exactly as MJ was in the first movie. Spider-man rushes to her and picks her up, she's still alive. Suddenly the Goblin rushes in and knocks her out of his arms, she falls, he webs her and pulls her up but she's dead. Spider-man screams but the Goblin is nowhere to be seen. Gwen is put to buried, and the city once again hates Spider-man. Even Jameson hates Spider-man again, claiming that his psychiatrist was a crackpot. Peter is torn apart, decides to look for Connors to keep his mind of off everything. He finally gets a lead and is on his way to the sewers, when Venom jumps out of some shadows and attacks him. Peter freaks out and they fight, but then again suddenly Venom turns a corner and disappears. Is Peter losing his mind?

Cut to the Lizard working in a crude laboratory in the sewer, but having constant flashes where Connors is in control. The Lizard is wishes to mutate all Lizards into beings like him, but Connors just wishes to himself and the Lizard. Kraven shows up and seriously wounds the Lizard, but cannot finish the job and is forced to retreat.

Peter is at the Bugle, paranoid and jumping at every sound. He asks Jameson the name of his old psychiatrist, and decides to go visit him. He goes to the doctor's house and knocks, but the door suddenly opens and someone tells him to go inside. He goes in and looks around, and suddenly is in a room with Norman Osborne, Otto Octavius, and Eddie Brock. he asks how they are alive, but suddenly they grow larger and larger, until he his tiny. They chase him around the house, which is gigantic also, until suddenly everything is normal and Peter is curled on the floor in tears. The doctor walks in and introduces himself as Quentin Beck, and explains that he was a special effects man on a movie set that was filming near the construction site where he fought the giant sandman and venom. He explains that the battle ruined the movie set, and lost him his job, but during the battle Beck zoomed in with a camera and saw Spider-man's face, and then just looked him up. He has been using a mixture of holographic technology and advanced animatronics to recreate old villians. Peter is in shock from seeing Osborne, Octavius, and Brock. It is at this moment that we see just how unstable he is, as we see him laying in the fetal position hugging himself on the ground and crying/laughing, and we don't know if he understands Beck or not. Beck says that he wishes to destroy Peter and everything he loves, and starts laughing insanely. Peter snaps out of it, realizes that Beck is crazy, and punches him, but the punch goes straight through. It was just a hologram, and Peter sees Beck in another room down the hall. He goes after him, but it is another hologram. Finally he keeps chasing him down until he decides to just tear down the walls looking for him, which he finally does. Peter doesn't want to really hurt Beck, just subdue him and call the police, so he jams a fishbowl over Beck's head and wraps him up in a curtain.

Peter, now no longer fearing insanity, decides to finally find Connors. He tracks the Lizard in the sewer, and finds him nursing wounds caused by Kraven. He tries to help but the internal struggle between Lizard and Connors has made him crazy with rage. He begins tearing into Spider-Man.

Cut to Kraven, who is apologizing to the painting of his parents. He then injects himself with something, and he bulks up, puts his father's lionskin vest on, and storms through a wall, then tears off a manhole cover and dives into the sewer. Meanwhile Spider-man is struggling to keep control of the battle. The lizard finally jumps on top of Spider-man and is about to bite his face, when Kraven shows up and knocks him off. Kraven (in an maddening rage) exclaims how convenient it is that his two prey are together. He lights into the Lizard, but Spider-man pulls him off and throws him aside. This act of kindness awakens Connors enough to control the Lizard to knock out Kraven and to tell Peter about the antidote. Peter takes Kraven topside and leaves him in an alley, then makes his way to Connors's lab. He finds the antidote, and goes back to the sewer, where the Lizard has completely taken control and fights Spider-man throughout the sewer. Spidey drops the antidote into a huge water resevior, and dives in after it. The Lizard follows and they fight underwater until Spidey finds it and injects it into the Lizard, which returns him to Connors. Spidey returns Connors to his family, then goes to find Kraven at his mansion. He shows up, but Kraven won't talk to him. Finally Spidey leaves. We then see Kraven looking sad at the painting of this parents, and he then commits suicide.

Cut to Peter at the graveyard, now at Gwen Stacy's grave, and we here the voiceover about how people he knows are never safe. He goes on to say that no matter how hard it gets, we cannot give into the temptation of insanity, even though the insane is sometimes far easier to live with than reality. The movie ends with Peter in his apartment looking at a photo album, when there is a knock at the door. It is Mary Jane.
 
some of you guys are writing full blown essays on SM4. It's supposed to be a short summary.
 
I don't think Black Cat needs to be written as a love interest. She should be written as a lust interest. I mean, would it totally kill the goody-two-shoes nature of the character to introduce someone who he really just wants to bang? A character who just oozes sexuality, whom Peter can't help but be turned on by? I don't think every beautiful girl they introduce should be a legitimate "love" interest. I mean, come on.

But Black Cat could certainly use her sexuality to manipulate him and mess with him, but she develops as a character and she eventually proves to be a flawed, but ultimately good-hearted person and a useful ally.

Yeah but don't you want to establish that other humanistic side of Black Cat too... Felicia needs screen time too... it would be a waste if we only saw a one dimensional Black Cat... now if Bryce doesn't come back then write Gwen out... but three major love interests is overcrowding the estrogen lvls a bit no?
 
Just as long as no one has Black Cat laying a smackdown on the Lizard like she did in the Sensational SM comic last year. That was just ridiculous.
 
Best story is either give Venom the justice he deserves in a spiderman movie, or forget him and definitely forget carnage.

I for see Kraven and Lizard in a three way battle with spiderman

Spidy trying to fight off Kraven while trying to protect the lizard from Kraven as well. Also trying to stay alive against the Lizard.
 
My idea uses Lizard, Kraven, Sandman, and a Shocker cameo.
Shocker's a throw-away villian that gets owned by Spider-man at the begining of the movie. Near the begining of the movie, Dr. Conners becomes the Lizard by doing tests on the symbiote sample he took from Peter in SM3. His transformation is slow. At first, he starts to grow a tail and his skin turns green and scaly. He runs away from his family and hides out in the sewers. Kraven, who has a hunting show on TV, gets wind that there's a giant Lizard running loose in New York. Workers at the construction site from SM3 find in a pile of rubble an unconcious Eddie Brock. They take him to the hospital. Peter, hearing that Eddie is alive and fearing that he'll reveal his secret identity, goes to see him. Eddie tells Peter that he's sorry for what he did and that he's going to be a better person. Kraven arrives in New York and immedietly starts looking for the Lizard. Peter notices that Dr. Conners isn't teaching and goes to his house to check on him. When he gets there, he talks to Mrs. Conners, who tells him about Dr. Conner's accident. Spider-man realizes that he must stop Kraven. Spider-man tracks Kraven down and tries to convince him not to hurt the Lizard. Instead of listening, Kraven attacks him. Eddie Brock is photographing the whole fight. Brock gives the pictures to Jameson, who uses them as proof that Spider-man is against Kraven, the so called "Good Guy". Kraven, to make sure Spider-man stays out of his way, kidnaps Flint Marko's daughter and tells Sandman that if he wants his daughter to live, he'll kill Spider-man. Peter studies Dr. Conners notes and creates a cure for him. Spider-man hits the sewers looking for Conners. He finds the Lizard, who now has fangs and claws. He tries to give him the cure. Him and Lizard fight, and then Sandman comes in. There's an awesome 3-way fight between them. Lizard runs away and Sandman beats the living hell out of Spider-man, leaving him for dead. Kraven eventually captures Lizard and discovers that he was originally human. He puts Lizard in a cage and makes a public anouncement that he will kill the beast on live TV. Kraven is in front of a public audience, who are all yelling at him to kill Lizard. Spider-man swings in and is met by Sandman. They both fight as Kraven takes out a knife and starts stabbing Lizard. Spider-man gets away from Sandman long enough to knock the knife out of Kraven's hand. In the confusion, Lizard's cage is unlocked and he escapes. He goes straight for Kraven and starts tearing into him. All four of them are fighting until eventually Spider-man throws the cure into Lizard and he turns back into Dr. Conners. The audience is just shocked. Kraven then says that because of Sandman's failure, he's going to kill his daughter. Spider-man and Sandman chase Kraven to an old warehouse where Sandman's daughter's being kept. Together, they stop Kraven. Kraven, unable to face the public humiliation, kills himself. Sandman says that he's ready to face the punishment for the crimes he's commited and goes to jail.

Other points in the story:
MJ and Peter get married
Eddie and Gwen get back together
 
With all due respect, that makes absolutely no logical sense. Sorry, but I don't see them all of the sudden using the Spider-Man movies to put Civil War on the big screen.


use it as a subplot...introduce Reed Richards and Tony Stark in Spiderman continuity in Spiderman 4 (funders / helpers for Conner's lizard experiments. just a cameo role)

and use Spiderman 5 (since it will make the most money..outside of an X-Men 4...and considering the X-Men werent even involved in Civil War..for the most part...) to get the backstory up...so the Civil War movie can be 2 hours of ass kicking.
 
I hope there would be no more 'kidnap MJ and use her as bait' scenes. :whatever:
 
use it as a subplot...introduce Reed Richards and Tony Stark in Spiderman continuity in Spiderman 4 (funders / helpers for Conner's lizard experiments. just a cameo role)

and use Spiderman 5 (since it will make the most money..outside of an X-Men 4...and considering the X-Men werent even involved in Civil War..for the most part...) to get the backstory up...so the Civil War movie can be 2 hours of ass kicking.

I'd rather Spider-Man's movies focus on Spider-Man.
 
Yeah but don't you want to establish that other humanistic side of Black Cat too... Felicia needs screen time too... it would be a waste if we only saw a one dimensional Black Cat... now if Bryce doesn't come back then write Gwen out... but three major love interests is overcrowding the estrogen lvls a bit no?

She shouldn't be one-dimensional at all, no, but I think that at this point, or whenever she comes in, Felicia Hardy as Felicia Hardy should have relatively minimal screen time, or at least minimal interaction with Peter. I think that her good, human side should be slowly revealed throughout. But if we have Peter interacting too much with Felicia, it would seem like a rehash of the Gwen storyline, it would clog up screen-time, and it would force the plot to go in unnecessary directions since he would obviously know what her identity is. I guess, long story short, Felicia should not be someone who Peter has a connection with outside of his role as Spider-Man. The dramatic tension in the storyline shouldn't be oriented around her as a love interest, but as a character that makes the audience and Spider-Man question their own sympathies, since what she does is clearly wrong, but she is ultimately a sympathetic character.
 
She shouldn't be one-dimensional at all, no, but I think that at this point, or whenever she comes in, Felicia Hardy as Felicia Hardy should have relatively minimal screen time, or at least minimal interaction with Peter. I think that her good, human side should be slowly revealed throughout. But if we have Peter interacting too much with Felicia, it would seem like a rehash of the Gwen storyline, it would clog up screen-time, and it would force the plot to go in unnecessary directions since he would obviously know what her identity is. I guess, long story short, Felicia should not be someone who Peter has a connection with outside of his role as Spider-Man. The dramatic tension in the storyline shouldn't be oriented around her as a love interest, but as a character that makes the audience and Spider-Man question their own sympathies, since what she does is clearly wrong, but she is ultimately a sympathetic character.

I agree with the handling of Black Cat... but a rehash of Gwen? Gwen was hardly used??? You call that a love triangle there? They had what... a dance scene... a crane scene... and a cheap kiss... thats about it... we don't know if Gwen is going to be getting more time in SM4... she could be written out... then we are stuck with MJ all over again... I am not trying to say its too soon for BC as I said earlier... I am just saying there is little room to develop the character as long as Gwen is in there... you want to fully develop that relationship before jumping to the next... if anything... Felicia should have like a Flash Thompson type role in SM4... a very limited role... there is no room to develop her character if Gwen plays a major part. I know BC isn't exactly a love interest... but there is no time to develop her character when you have a lot of other characters with more precedence
 
Gwen was just being introduced into the film, this was said before-hand by Raimi that her part will be small. It obvious she'll be in future films, her and her daddy. I'm not personally a fan of the character myself.

But Black Cat is a horrible character that should never be introduced. She's just going to take screentime away from the real villain(s) at hand. She can't fight alongside Spider-Man or his villains, without becoming another f---ing damsel-in-distress, or worst, a ROBIN ass sidekick. Who needs that sh:t?
 
Gwen was just being introduced into the film, this was said before-hand by Raimi that her part will be small. It obvious she'll be in future films, her and her daddy. I'm not personally a fan of the character myself.

But Black Cat is a horrible character that should never be introduced. She's just going to take screentime away from the real villain(s) at hand. She can't fight alongside Spider-Man or his villains, without becoming another f---ing damsel-in-distress, or worst, a ROBIN ass sidekick. Who needs that sh:t?

I see where you are coming from... but if it was just Gwen it would just be damsel in distress number two... up until her death at least... there would be nothing left to spin once they exhaust the love triangles... Black Cat at least gives a female lead another dimension... she doesn't have to pair up with Spidey... but she can be that anti hero doing her own thing while meddling with Spiderman's affairs as well... keep in mind Spidey has no female adversary... it isn't just about the boobs either... BC isn't exactly a damsel in distress... everyone thinks every villain has to be a physical threat to Spidey... well we need the exact opposite of that for some villains as well... Mysterio, Chameleon, Kingpin all offer a mental challenge (threatening Spidey more so with brains than biceps) that Spidey may potentially face... all can be countered by an intelligent Black Cat who gives Spidey the mental advantage and nullify that disparity SPidey may face with those aforementioned villains. Its another dimension to a typical damsel in distress... kidnapping the female lead just won't cut it anymore people. Sometimes it has to be the exact opposite of what worked before to keep thigns fresh. Also Black Cat could hold her own with the likes of Kingpin, Mysterio, Chameleon, Kraven, and even outsmart dumbass villains like Rhino (and we will be seeing at least two of those guys in the sequels guaranteed)
 
I agree with the whole love-triangle and damsel in distress being repeated to no end, it's just bad writing on the filmmaker's part. I'm personally sick of it, thus is why I love James Cameron's films, his women are strong as hell. But when you introduce Black Cat, it's going to take a good amount of screentime to turn Felicia Hardy into Black Cat. She would now become a costumed character who's a love interest and a damsel in distress. That's a lot more wasted screentime than Gwen Stacy, because she comes with an origin story. Time taking away from Curt Connors/THE LIZARD.

It's a bad idea, she's a character that's going to remind people of and be mentioned by every critic and fanboy and non-fanboy as a Catwoman ripoff. We'll never hear the end of it.
 
Like we don't hear it enough from the Superman fans, do we need the Batman fans saying we are ripping them off by doing an obvious Catwoman rip-off (which the Black Cat is, I can't argue with that).
 
I agree with the whole love-triangle and damsel in distress being repeated to no end, it's just bad writing on the filmmaker's part. I'm personally sick of it, thus is why I love James Cameron's films, his women are strong as hell. But when you introduce Black Cat, it's going to take a good amount of screentime to turn Felicia Hardy into Black Cat. She would now become a costumed character who's a love interest and a damsel in distress. That's a lot more wasted screentime than Gwen Stacy, because she comes with an origin story. Time taking away from Curt Connors/THE LIZARD.

It's a bad idea, she's a character that's going to remind people of and be mentioned by every critic and fanboy and non-fanboy as a Catwoman ripoff. We'll never hear the end of it.

I have no interest in seeing her becoming Black Cat. I always assumed, and would strongly prefer, that she is introduced as Black Cat, to provide some moral ambiguity on Spider-Man's part, and her character motivations and backstory are revealed later.
 
As far as her being in Spider-Man 4, it's a real shame that they need to cut down on stories and character focuses, because I think that her story would really compliment the Lizard's, in regards to the moral ambiguity (Spider-Man's inner conflict of whether he should simply kill the Lizard, knowing that it's Dr. Connors, in order to save people he might kill; inner conflict over whether he should expose the Black Cat and have her arrested, since he knows her actions are illegal and immoral, but feeling somehow sympathetic towards her, especially once he learns of her troubled past; and his personal doubt that maybe his bias towards both Lizard and Black Cat is clouding his judgement). Unfortunately, I feel that there would only be enough screentime to do justice to either Lizard and Kraven or Lizard and Black Cat. Not both. And I think I'd have to go with Lizard and Kraven, between the two.
 
I agree with the whole love-triangle and damsel in distress being repeated to no end, it's just bad writing on the filmmaker's part. I'm personally sick of it, thus is why I love James Cameron's films, his women are strong as hell. But when you introduce Black Cat, it's going to take a good amount of screentime to turn Felicia Hardy into Black Cat. She would now become a costumed character who's a love interest and a damsel in distress. That's a lot more wasted screentime than Gwen Stacy, because she comes with an origin story. Time taking away from Curt Connors/THE LIZARD.

It's a bad idea, she's a character that's going to remind people of and be mentioned by every critic and fanboy and non-fanboy as a Catwoman ripoff. We'll never hear the end of it.

But Felicia would have very little screen time if Gwen is the primary female lead in SM4... she may not even have a role. Thats why she can come into the picture later on once Gwen is written out or killed. You still have room to spare.
 
I like the idea of using Kraven´s Last Hunt. First, it´d be an interesting change of pace to have a villain that´s not so much about cool visuals and FX, but his wits and skills. We had Spidey facing darkness, now let´s have him face mortality.
 
But Felicia would have very little screen time if Gwen is the primary female lead in SM4... she may not even have a role. Thats why she can come into the picture later on once Gwen is written out or killed. You still have room to spare.

Who says Gwen will be the primary female lead in SM4?
 
I have no interest in seeing her becoming Black Cat. I always assumed, and would strongly prefer, that she is introduced as Black Cat, to provide some moral ambiguity on Spider-Man's part, and her character motivations and backstory are revealed later.
Nope, that's not how they're going to do it, first we'll meet Felicia Hardy, then she'll become Black Cat, just like the rest of the villains. If Black Cat is in SM4.

It's ironic, I really like the character Felicia Hardy (more than Gwen Stacy), and I really want her in the movies, but I don't want Black Cat. And knowing that asinine producer Avi Arad, he'll push to have her on screen (those producers love LOVE TRIANGLES) just to make girly Barbie action figure toys. Just listen to Arad go on about Black Cat on the SM2 DVD, what a fool.

Damn, I hate talking about this character. :dry:
 

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monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"