Best/Worst Character Revamps

[GamerSlyRatchet]

This show has been known for making many changes to many of Batman's characters. Which do you thing was changed for the better? Which do you think was completely ruined.

Worst:

The Joker: My god, he is terrible! Barefoot, annoying, and he only has very few good episodes. Plus, he hasn't done anything remarkable here other than turning Bennett into Clayface, compared to the comics and his Timm counterparts.

Cluemaster: Somehow, they managed to turn a crappy villain from the comics into an even crappier villain on the series. Notice how he hasn't even been used other than his first episodes and his mere cameo in Season 4.

Mr. Freeze: Look, I'm a big fan of his design, but the fact they threw out THE only reason we still talk about him today is an insult.

Best:

Hugo Strange: From a stereotype mad scientist character in the comics to Batman's most dangerous recurring foe, Strange has managed to mess with Bats' head many times, whether as a psychiatrist or as a rogue scientist.

Firefly: He got a great new design, and his revamp from pyromaniac to hired arsonist made sense.

Riddler: A great design, an interesting origin story, and good characterization ranks him as one of my favorite characters in the series.


So, which character do you think they revamped the best? The worst?

 

[November Rain]

I actually love the joker. The fact he was originally in the show frequently helped show he was a force to be reckoned with, I liked how he was in arkham and had escaped a few times and went back in and how he messed with bennet and dressed up as bats and all that jazz. I even like how he stole bane's formulae and used it on himself. I love his voice, i like the fact he more of a physical adversary, he pisses people off more and is generally more menacing. I also LOVE his voice acting with funny sides that quickly drop into sinister serious tales. I love his relationship with batman in strange minds and also in the batman vs dracula where bats has him locked up and actually feeds him samples of his own blood. The rivalry is intense but they haven't captures much of the spark of it in latter seasons.

I love the futuristic batman/nightwing (although a lil soft) and pretty much everything about the artifact episode except for the fact alfred was still alive,. I even love the suped up mr freeze who was actually sinister for a change.

I love the all inclusive batarang which is a projectile, fighting knives and also a grapling hook. It's a design of genius and a great tool in fighting bruce.

I like the new season four batman design with the square chin and i also love robin in general.

I enjoy hugo strange and although i don't prefer what they've done with the two clayfaces, i think it's a decent take and i'm happy with it.

I wish gearheard would appear more as well as some of the other baddies.

I definietely love how all the crimelords who have henchmen look like their boss in some manner and not just some regular thugs which was always the case in tas.


I'm not going to dwell on the negative because there is enough people doing that in this place.

 

[CLARKY]

Well, the worst ones are Joker, Bane and the Riddler IMO. I disagree with you GamerSlyRatchet, I think Riddler design is horrible. I think I could get used to Freeze but with these crappy stories, I think I will never like his suit. I dislike the ice on his head.
I agree nevertheless about Firefly, good job on him. But overall, I think most of the designs suck.
I disagree with you November Rain, I think it's a real shame to see every henchmen/girls, dressed like their boss. Now, the title of the thread is 'character revamps", but if you want to talk about gadgets, I loooove the Batman gadgets, there are tons of good ideas.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Well, the worst ones are Joker, Bane and the Riddler IMO. I disagree with you GamerSlyRatchet, I think Riddler design is horrible. I think I could get used to Freeze but with these crappy stories, I think I will never like his suit. I dislike the ice on his head.
I agree nevertheless about Firefly, good job on him. But overall, I think most of the designs suck.
I disagree with you November Rain, I think it's a real shame to see every henchmen/girls, dressed like their boss. Now, the title of the thread is 'character revamps", but if you want to talk about gadgets, I loooove the Batman gadgets, there are tons of good ideas.

The reason why I liked Riddler's new design is because it actually had originality, and the Timm design, while classy, seemed a little bland. Don't even get me started on his TNBA design. It was awful!

And November Rain, I agree on Gearhead. The only thing that kept me from putting him on my good list was the funky nanotech. The comic book spin-off from the show made better use of Gearhead's tech.

 

[Blacklight]

I like Joker as being more of a physical match for Bats. They never duke it out with any of his other incarnations. He's more of the mastermind/never fights for himself type, but this version is both a fighter and schemer.

 

[Syncos]

Great Revamps:

Firefly: Firefly is fantastic. His characterization jump from random pyromaniac to hired arsonist/saboteur gives the character some depth, which is nice. His redesign is also pretty damned slick.

Hugo Strange: There's not a lot you can do with the character design. But the characterization is awesome. Strange New World was one of the best episodes of season 4.

Harley Quinn: I rather like that they went with the more believable "On Air" personality psychiatrist instead of an actual professional. I'm kinda depressed that they stopped using Harley after that first episode. Her character design was as good as it could be. and actually managed to compliment Joker's design a bit, despite how god awful his is.

Black Mask: As far as a crime boss goes, he works. His design is simple yet effective. I love that he actually has minions usually fighting for him, considering The Batman usually has the villians taking part in kung fu battles with Batman, when they shouldn't even be capable.

Absolutely Terrible Revamps:

Bane: He just seems like a joke. and his design is painfully bad. He certainly doesn't come off as a threat.

Joker: The design looks god awful. C'mon. And for the love of god, put on some shoes! The voicing is decent. But it just sounds like another Joker trying to be Hamill, and failing. His schemes are usually more stupid than they are clever or psychotic. So much wasted potential.

There's a lot of bad designs/characters that I wouldn't consider terrible. Such as; Penguin, Mr Freeze, Scarface, and Poison Ivy

 

[steelio2006]

So far, I've taken The Batman as an "Ultimate Batman" type of thing. It's not tryin to do the same things that the Timm series did. Which I like. It gives us interesting twists on the characters and new looks for them. While I'm still not too happy with the Marilyn Manson Riddler. I like the voice casting for him. Robert Englund is awesome as the Riddler.

The Joker was someone I didnt like at first. But after watchin the first set of episodes a couple of times, the look finally settled with me. It took me a while tho. It's not regular Joker. It's "Ultimate" Joker. (Like look at Ultimate Spidey's take on Eddie Brock, Jr. Not the same as 616 Eddie)

Mr. Freeze I like his revamp. I don't like that they took away his best part bout him. But it's tryin to do stuff differently then the previous series. So it gets a plus in my book cause of that.

Bane: I can only handle him in one episode. don't like him besides that.

Gearhead: I'd like to see more of him. But I think his purpose was just to help introduce the new Batmobile.

 

[ironman29758]

I like Joker as being more of a physical match for Bats. They never duke it out with any of his other incarnations. He's more of the mastermind/never fights for himself type, but this version is both a fighter and schemer.

execpt in the first appearance of the joker. he was a physical match for the batman too.

 

[November Rain]

they should have kept bane's size the similar to batman's and just have red veins popping out of his suit when he juices up, he just grows far too much and he's been underused as a villain since the first ep

gotta say i also love langstrom's design as well as man bat's.

 

[chicken_nugget]

they should have kept bane's size the similar to batman's and just have red veins popping out of his suit when he juices up, he just grows far too much and he's been underused as a villain since the first ep

gotta say i also love langstrom's design as well as man bat's.

Babe I gotta say I disagree.

Even though it's only an animated series, the bird with the big boobies is hot!!!

 

[November Rain]

disagree about what?

and don't call me babe...

 

[chicken_nugget]

disagree about what?

and don't call me babe...

Ok, sorry babe. Won't do it again. Babe. I hope you forgive me. Babe.

Lol, na seriously I don't want to get on the wrong side of you babe, you look very tough, please just ignore me babe.

PS. Are you a man or a woman?; I'm bisexual.

 

[November Rain]

i'm an 'It'

 

[chicken_nugget]

i'm an 'It'

Excellent, I do 'its' aswell. Let's get it on babe.

 

[Syncos]

He didn't last long.

 

[Aristotle]

Hugo Strange: From a stereotype mad scientist character in the comics to Batman's most dangerous recurring foe, Strange has managed to mess with Bats' head many times, whether as a psychiatrist or as a rogue scientist.

Firefly: He got a great new design, and his revamp from pyromaniac to hired arsonist made sense.

Riddler: A great design, an interesting origin story, and good characterization ranks him as one of my favorite characters in the series.

Do you...read the comics? Oh, the things Hugo Strange has done to Batman, the trials he has put him through, the havoc he has wreaked on his mind. He has brought Batman within inches of complete ruin--COMPLETE ruin. And Firefly's been a hired arsonist many times. The pyromania and the tortured childhood just adds what those of us who like actual characterization in our villains like to call "dimension."

As for Riddler: what the **** are you talking about? Great design? He's Edward Nygma, not Marilyn Manson.

 

[Aristotle]

I actually love the joker...i like the fact he more of a physical adversary

Explain how the concept of the Joker and Batman being complete opposite numbers in every sense fits with the Joker having ANY physical prowess?

I also LOVE his voice acting with funny sides that quickly drop into sinister serious tales.

Let me tell you about a fella named Mark Hamill...

I like the new season four batman design with the square chin

You mean...exactly like the DCAU Batman?

I definietely love how all the crimelords who have henchmen look like their boss in some manner and not just some regular thugs which was always the case in tas.

Never watched a Joker episode of TAS, did you? Besides...that's not what those villains do. They're theatrical--they want the spotlight for THEM, not their underlings.

 

[Aristotle]

I like Joker as being more of a physical match for Bats. They never duke it out with any of his other incarnations. He's more of the mastermind/never fights for himself type.

Perhaps they had a reason for doing it that way.

 

[Aristotle]

Firefly: Firefly is fantastic. His characterization jump from random pyromaniac to hired arsonist/saboteur gives the character some depth, which is nice. His redesign is also pretty damned slick.

It sucks ALL depth from him. Now he's just another thug with fancy tech.

The Batman usually has the villians taking part in kung fu battles with Batman, when they shouldn't even be capable.

I'm glad someone else noticed.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Do you...read the comics? Oh, the things Hugo Strange has done to Batman, the trials he has put him through, the havoc he has wreaked on his mind. He has brought Batman within inches of complete ruin--COMPLETE ruin. And Firefly's been a hired arsonist many times. The pyromania and the tortured childhood just adds what those of us who like actual characterization in our villains like to call "dimension."

As for Riddler: what the **** are you talking about? Great design? He's Edward Nygma, not Marilyn Manson.

To be honest with you, I haven't read much of the comics, so I wouldn't know much about Strange. I know he's been a big threat to Batman in the comics, but I don't know to what extent he is. I'm just glad this show made him more accurate and a bigger threat that the B:TAS version could ever be.

As for Firefly, I should've clarified that I like him design-wise. But see, just because a character has mental issues doesn't make him any more interesting than a thug. Like Firefly in TNBA, he was a crazed pyromaniac, but he wasn't really as interesting as other villains in the show. Firefly only got interesting when he gained and lost a love interest, as well as when he was turned into Phosphorus, where we actually see HOW he descended to madness.

And like I stated before, the reason I liked this Riddler's design was because it actually showed originality, and while Mr. Timm's design was good, it was just too "blah". Then again, his design on TNBA was THE worse he ever got.

 

[Aristotle]

To be honest with you, I haven't read much of the comics

You should fix that.

 

[jabbatheridge]

I really dislike the Penguin, but not so much for the look of the character it's more the voice that drives me crazy. I'm sure someone else here will know but is Penguin voiced by the same guy who played Cartman in South Park because he really reminds me of it. The voice is irritating, I hate the ginger hair and his top hat is way too big. I know alot of people hate Penguin in the DCU but he was one of my favourite villains and I like most other screen incarnations of him.

 

[CLARKY]

The reason why I liked Riddler's new design is because it actually had originality, and the Timm design, while classy, seemed a little bland. Don't even get me started on his TNBA design. It was awful!

Yeah, I concur it was really original, but I think a villain does not need to be original (design speaking). From this point of view, Bane's design is really original too, and just as for Bane , I think the design didn't suit the character.And indeed, I thought that Timm's design suited the character more, because he Riddler is suppose to be a brain, not a fashion emperor, well, you know, just the fact that his brain sur-compensate what he lacks in other areas.

 

[bio-scope]

So far, I've taken The Batman as an "Ultimate Batman" type of thing. It's not tryin to do the same things that the Timm series did. Which I like. It gives us interesting twists on the characters and new looks for them. While I'm still not too happy with the Marilyn Manson Riddler. I like the voice casting for him. Robert Englund is awesome as the Riddler.

The Joker was someone I didnt like at first. But after watchin the first set of episodes a couple of times, the look finally settled with me. It took me a while tho. It's not regular Joker. It's "Ultimate" Joker. (Like look at Ultimate Spidey's take on Eddie Brock, Jr. Not the same as 616 Eddie)

Mr. Freeze I like his revamp. I don't like that they took away his best part bout him. But it's tryin to do stuff differently then the previous series. So it gets a plus in my book cause of that.

Bane: I can only handle him in one episode. don't like him besides that.

Gearhead: I'd like to see more of him. But I think his purpose was just to help introduce the new Batmobile.

tru dat!

 

[November Rain]

alright, i've just caught this

Explain how the concept of the Joker and Batman being complete opposite numbers in every sense fits with the Joker having ANY physical prowess?

It's been highlighted over the realm of most comic book heroes that in order to have an opposite/arch villain, doesn't mean being a direct opposite.

The joker being a physical threat to batman (in this show) brings and added dimension. The 'opposite' you can wish to take from this is while the batman is very disciplined in his movement and fighting prowess, the joker's movements are very chaotic and unpredictable and counter bruce's training because he's not trained for the unexpected and this make the joker dangerous in combat.

Let me tell you about a fella named Mark Hamill...

I don't believe his joker has actually given a frightfully chilling performance, disturbed yeah, crazy yeah but not frightening.

Micheal routinely turns it on a dime and goes from high pitched to a very dark sinister voice. I do prefer his joker just for giving more range of emotions on his voice.

You mean...exactly like the DCAU Batman?

Firstly, bruce has had at least four/five different batman looks during dcau, some i like, some i don't but none of them look like matsuda's batman even with his new chin implant. If anything the chin was brought in to designate a sign of maturity in his batman role in comparison to dick's rounded chin. At least that is how i interpreted it.

Never watched a Joker episode of TAS, did you? Besides...that's not what those villains do. They're theatrical--they want the spotlight for THEM, not their underlings.

I said 'all' the villains. This was noticed with joker and two face at times but not with everyone, the generic thug takes its toll sometimes.

Stop acting as if Dcau is the be all and end all of everything, it's not perfect and the batman does eventually bring some better concepts to the table.