stillanerd
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Well, folks, I'm sure some of you have been patiently waiting over the Thanksgiving Holiday to read about what I thought about Amazing Spider-Man #649. And since I've got nothing better to do after the holiday, I might well give my delayed opinion about this issue.
http://stillanerd.livejournal.com/8006.html
Humberto Ramos, again, does the art for this issue, and I find he's doing a very capable job. While it's certainly stylistic, it definitely has a sense of energy, even during scenes involving dialog, and his facial expressions, while exaggerated, are definitely expressive. There are, at times, however, in which the action doesn't translate well, as it appears, based on reactions from the preview and other reviews, I definitely wasn't the only one who thought the Black Cat took out a biker with her butt instead of her feet.
In terms of Dan Slott's script, I find that while it certainly has a clear sense of vision and is well-constructed, it still is, once again, a mixed blessing. In terms of what good, (and regardless of whether or not Black Cat used her "buns of steel" or not), I liked the scene in with Spidey and the Black Cat take out the biker gang who have adopted the "Green Goblin" culture. This is primarily because, not only is it a nice quick action set-piece with plenty of banter between Spidey and Felicia (and Norah Winters, as well), but it continues the idea introduced last issue of how she is continuing to partner up with Spidey in order so that he'll recommend her for the Avengers. It not only shows an apparent downside of Spidey being an Avenger, but also that this is one of the consequences of Spidey's prior "friends with benefits" relationship with her during "Brand New Day," underscoring her role as temptress for him, which is what the Black Cat excels at being.
We also get treated to a brief scene with Peter and Carlie about to spend an evening together watching a movie in Peter's hotel room, and we see their new romance already has developed some potentially big problems. In an ironic role-reversal we learn that Carlie, because of her job as a forensic scientist, is one who usually has to skip out on dates with Peter (a carry over from Zeb Wells "Shed" story), as is the case here where she gets called to investigate the same scene where Spidey and Black Cat stopped the bikers. Carlies job also means she has uncanny powers of observation--like seeing that Peter had been making a batch of spare web-fluid before she arrived, or almost spotting part of his discarded Spidey costume. Thus, with his secret identity almost blown, it dawns on Peter that asking Carlie to be his girlfriend may have been a potentially bad idea--at least as far as him being Spider-Man is concerned (then again, doesnt he still have the psychic blindspot which should prevent Carlie from figuring this out anyway?). While I still think Carlie is a rather dull and overrated character, at least Slott is making the effort to try and make Peter's usual dating dilemmas a bit more unique.
I also thought the scene with Aunt May rousing Peter and occupying him to his first day at Horizon Labs like it was his first day of school was actually kind of endearing and cute, especially at the end when May looks up and says "[Peter] did it, Ben." You really do get the sense that May is truly proud that her nephew has finally become the scientist she always knew he'd be one day. Of course, Slott could have done without the unnecessary joke in which May thinks Peter is secretly hiding pornography from her, but at least it doesnt completely ruin things.
Speaking of Peter's job, we also get introduced to two more co-workers--a blond, glasses-wearing environmentalist named Bella Fishback, and an African-American child prodigy whose parents are Fantastic Four fans named Uatu Jackson--and there's mention of "Number 6," a secretive member of the "Lucky 7" think-tank, who's identity I'm sure will play as a key subplot in future issues. And just like last issue, these new additions to the supporting cast haven't really grabbed me at all, although I do think out of the ones introduced so far, Uatu seems like the more interesting of the bunch.
Likewise, Peter also gets his very own private lab in this issue, one which even his new boss, Max Modell, is not allowed access to, which makes it an ideal place for him to stash his Spidey stuff from prying eyes and work on various Spidey related experiments. If this sounds way too convenient, it is, and I can't help but think that by giving Peter this new job, Slott may be risking undermining the idea that one of Peter's biggest strengths lies in that he can achieve great things in the face of adversity, financial or otherwise. To be fair, though, Slott does have Peter, having faced with a creative block on his first day, realize that many of his great scientific achievements were the result of his being Spider-Man, something which, of course, will have later repercussions over the course of Slott's run.
There are also not as many subplots being floated as last time, but there are still two brief, page long scenes that set-up future stories. One has Steve Rodgers, along with John Jameson, suggest to Mayor Jameson that Spidey be given a key to the city, much to Jonah's objections; the other is that Mac Gargan is dying without the symbiote or the Scorpion suit, which continues the set-up Gargan's return in becoming the Scorpion yet again. They may not actually add to the main story, but it does give readers the feeling that there are events transpiring beyond Peter's present circumstances which will effect him eventually.
But of course, all this is not what people really want to talk about or have been talking about. Rather, it's the opening prologue in which Phil Urich takes Roderick Kingsleys place new Hobgoblin--by disabling him with his Lunatic Laugh and then decapitating him with a flaming sword.
Now, I don't mind the idea of Phil becoming the new Hobogblin; the Mondo Magazine review of this issue made an excellent observation that Phil has essentially become a dark reflection of Peter Parker, especially since both of them last issue are starting off in similar circumstances (they even have the same middle name and an "Uncle Ben"). Some may gripe about how crazy and evil Phil suddenly has become (which apparently you had to read the Green Goblin series from the 90s or the Loners mini series), or that his "Lunatic Laugh" no longer requires him to wear a Goblin mask in order to be used, or that he's motivated to become a Goblin once again because of his a crush on Norah and is attempting to impress her. But these are trifles compared to how Phil becomes the Hobgoblin in this issue, something which I dont feel hes legitimately earned.
I cannot help but think that the Spider-Man fans who have been waiting for more than a decade for the original Hobgoblin--Roderick Kingsley--to return, only to then have him be quickly (and gruesomely) dispatched by the former heroic version of the Green Goblin to feel anything but cheated. There is a chance, though, it was actually Roderick's twin brother, Daniel, who was really killed in this issue, but as it stands, this feels like a cheap bait-and-switch that was done just to create shock value, pure and simple. I'm sure some may like it for that very reason, saying it unexpected and daring, and if so, I simply ask the following: did Roderick Kingsley really have to be killed in order for Phil to become the new Hobgoblin? If the answer is no, then what does that tell you?
Also, some of the jokes, especially the sex-related ones, I didn't particularly care for, primarily because they seemed too obvious. The most crass was where Norah jokingly tells Ben Urich that she's dating Randy Robertson--who is African American, mind you--because, in part, he has a large penis. Granted, she doesn't actually say the word, but it's written in a manner that discerning readers will definitely know what she's talking about. And while I'm sure this is meant to show how that part of Norah's humor comes from her being wonderfully "politically incorrect," the idea of a white woman making a stereotypical remark about a black man's "package" could still rub people the wrong way, especially since this is not the first time Norah has said borderline racist comments, either. I'm sure there will be some who will say "just lighten up," but I do question using this type of humor in a book that is supposedly geared to, at minimum, 9 year-old kids. Considering some of the other content in past issues, the least Marvel can do is change the rating of the comic.
All in all, I do think that these first two issues of "Big Timie" do show promise and are clearly more focused than the past three years we had under the previous format. Yet, as mentioned, there are still things which I do find problematic and questionable within some of the more interesting ideas Slott is brining to the series. Thus far, I'd put this in the "okay, but could be much better" category.
In terms of Dan Slott's script, I find that while it certainly has a clear sense of vision and is well-constructed, it still is, once again, a mixed blessing. In terms of what good, (and regardless of whether or not Black Cat used her "buns of steel" or not), I liked the scene in with Spidey and the Black Cat take out the biker gang who have adopted the "Green Goblin" culture. This is primarily because, not only is it a nice quick action set-piece with plenty of banter between Spidey and Felicia (and Norah Winters, as well), but it continues the idea introduced last issue of how she is continuing to partner up with Spidey in order so that he'll recommend her for the Avengers. It not only shows an apparent downside of Spidey being an Avenger, but also that this is one of the consequences of Spidey's prior "friends with benefits" relationship with her during "Brand New Day," underscoring her role as temptress for him, which is what the Black Cat excels at being.
We also get treated to a brief scene with Peter and Carlie about to spend an evening together watching a movie in Peter's hotel room, and we see their new romance already has developed some potentially big problems. In an ironic role-reversal we learn that Carlie, because of her job as a forensic scientist, is one who usually has to skip out on dates with Peter (a carry over from Zeb Wells "Shed" story), as is the case here where she gets called to investigate the same scene where Spidey and Black Cat stopped the bikers. Carlies job also means she has uncanny powers of observation--like seeing that Peter had been making a batch of spare web-fluid before she arrived, or almost spotting part of his discarded Spidey costume. Thus, with his secret identity almost blown, it dawns on Peter that asking Carlie to be his girlfriend may have been a potentially bad idea--at least as far as him being Spider-Man is concerned (then again, doesnt he still have the psychic blindspot which should prevent Carlie from figuring this out anyway?). While I still think Carlie is a rather dull and overrated character, at least Slott is making the effort to try and make Peter's usual dating dilemmas a bit more unique.
I also thought the scene with Aunt May rousing Peter and occupying him to his first day at Horizon Labs like it was his first day of school was actually kind of endearing and cute, especially at the end when May looks up and says "[Peter] did it, Ben." You really do get the sense that May is truly proud that her nephew has finally become the scientist she always knew he'd be one day. Of course, Slott could have done without the unnecessary joke in which May thinks Peter is secretly hiding pornography from her, but at least it doesnt completely ruin things.
Speaking of Peter's job, we also get introduced to two more co-workers--a blond, glasses-wearing environmentalist named Bella Fishback, and an African-American child prodigy whose parents are Fantastic Four fans named Uatu Jackson--and there's mention of "Number 6," a secretive member of the "Lucky 7" think-tank, who's identity I'm sure will play as a key subplot in future issues. And just like last issue, these new additions to the supporting cast haven't really grabbed me at all, although I do think out of the ones introduced so far, Uatu seems like the more interesting of the bunch.
Likewise, Peter also gets his very own private lab in this issue, one which even his new boss, Max Modell, is not allowed access to, which makes it an ideal place for him to stash his Spidey stuff from prying eyes and work on various Spidey related experiments. If this sounds way too convenient, it is, and I can't help but think that by giving Peter this new job, Slott may be risking undermining the idea that one of Peter's biggest strengths lies in that he can achieve great things in the face of adversity, financial or otherwise. To be fair, though, Slott does have Peter, having faced with a creative block on his first day, realize that many of his great scientific achievements were the result of his being Spider-Man, something which, of course, will have later repercussions over the course of Slott's run.
There are also not as many subplots being floated as last time, but there are still two brief, page long scenes that set-up future stories. One has Steve Rodgers, along with John Jameson, suggest to Mayor Jameson that Spidey be given a key to the city, much to Jonah's objections; the other is that Mac Gargan is dying without the symbiote or the Scorpion suit, which continues the set-up Gargan's return in becoming the Scorpion yet again. They may not actually add to the main story, but it does give readers the feeling that there are events transpiring beyond Peter's present circumstances which will effect him eventually.
But of course, all this is not what people really want to talk about or have been talking about. Rather, it's the opening prologue in which Phil Urich takes Roderick Kingsleys place new Hobgoblin--by disabling him with his Lunatic Laugh and then decapitating him with a flaming sword.
Now, I don't mind the idea of Phil becoming the new Hobogblin; the Mondo Magazine review of this issue made an excellent observation that Phil has essentially become a dark reflection of Peter Parker, especially since both of them last issue are starting off in similar circumstances (they even have the same middle name and an "Uncle Ben"). Some may gripe about how crazy and evil Phil suddenly has become (which apparently you had to read the Green Goblin series from the 90s or the Loners mini series), or that his "Lunatic Laugh" no longer requires him to wear a Goblin mask in order to be used, or that he's motivated to become a Goblin once again because of his a crush on Norah and is attempting to impress her. But these are trifles compared to how Phil becomes the Hobgoblin in this issue, something which I dont feel hes legitimately earned.
I cannot help but think that the Spider-Man fans who have been waiting for more than a decade for the original Hobgoblin--Roderick Kingsley--to return, only to then have him be quickly (and gruesomely) dispatched by the former heroic version of the Green Goblin to feel anything but cheated. There is a chance, though, it was actually Roderick's twin brother, Daniel, who was really killed in this issue, but as it stands, this feels like a cheap bait-and-switch that was done just to create shock value, pure and simple. I'm sure some may like it for that very reason, saying it unexpected and daring, and if so, I simply ask the following: did Roderick Kingsley really have to be killed in order for Phil to become the new Hobgoblin? If the answer is no, then what does that tell you?
Also, some of the jokes, especially the sex-related ones, I didn't particularly care for, primarily because they seemed too obvious. The most crass was where Norah jokingly tells Ben Urich that she's dating Randy Robertson--who is African American, mind you--because, in part, he has a large penis. Granted, she doesn't actually say the word, but it's written in a manner that discerning readers will definitely know what she's talking about. And while I'm sure this is meant to show how that part of Norah's humor comes from her being wonderfully "politically incorrect," the idea of a white woman making a stereotypical remark about a black man's "package" could still rub people the wrong way, especially since this is not the first time Norah has said borderline racist comments, either. I'm sure there will be some who will say "just lighten up," but I do question using this type of humor in a book that is supposedly geared to, at minimum, 9 year-old kids. Considering some of the other content in past issues, the least Marvel can do is change the rating of the comic.
All in all, I do think that these first two issues of "Big Timie" do show promise and are clearly more focused than the past three years we had under the previous format. Yet, as mentioned, there are still things which I do find problematic and questionable within some of the more interesting ideas Slott is brining to the series. Thus far, I'd put this in the "okay, but could be much better" category.
http://stillanerd.livejournal.com/8006.html
JewishHobbit
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He did have the power but it (as well as his Goblin strength) only worked while he was wearing the Goblin costume, or if memory serves, the mask specifically.
I never quite got the reasoning for that but last I saw that was the case. That is, unless it was undone in the Loners mini but I don't really recall it being undone. I just remember him taking over the Darkhawk armor and using those powers.
Spider-Gnome
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I know it was Thanksgiving and all, but I thought there would be more discussion.
My first reaction to reading the beginning:
I mean, they went to the trouble of retconning Hobby to what was suppose to be his original id, but then he goes into seclusion because Norman is around, and now that Norman is under arrest, they finally bring him back and then
Of course, they could turn around and say it's the twin brother, but that scene caught me TOTALLY off guard.
I must say, like 'clones, I like subplots. I must say, I think Dan is off to a flying start. I like the "Cult of Goblin" investigation by Norah, the Cat/Spidey team-up (I even chuckled at Cat & Norah discussing Spidey's love life), the fact that Carlie's profession might not make her good dating material, Steve trying to set JJJ straight, and Gargan no longer Venom.
I liked how they worked Phil in Spider-Girl, so, I'm not sure how I feel about this. But, I'm interested to see where this is going.
Again, I'm surprised there hasn't been more outrage from Kingsley fans.
My first reaction to reading the beginning:
I mean, they went to the trouble of retconning Hobby to what was suppose to be his original id, but then he goes into seclusion because Norman is around, and now that Norman is under arrest, they finally bring him back and then
Of course, they could turn around and say it's the twin brother, but that scene caught me TOTALLY off guard.
I must say, like 'clones, I like subplots. I must say, I think Dan is off to a flying start. I like the "Cult of Goblin" investigation by Norah, the Cat/Spidey team-up (I even chuckled at Cat & Norah discussing Spidey's love life), the fact that Carlie's profession might not make her good dating material, Steve trying to set JJJ straight, and Gargan no longer Venom.
I liked how they worked Phil in Spider-Girl, so, I'm not sure how I feel about this. But, I'm interested to see where this is going.
Again, I'm surprised there hasn't been more outrage from Kingsley fans.
Hobgoblin
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If I saw that match up, I could die happy. I want to see Harry and Norman in the full Goblin costume again.
I was wondering, does anyone know what 1999 has to do with ASM 650? Its on Marvel's website.
Shockdingo
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I think that's when this particular volume started???
Hobgoblin
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Look here.
http://marvel.com/comic_books/issue/30325/amazing_spider-man_1999_650
Arent we back at volume one? The only thing I can think of regarding the year 1999 was, obviously, the millennium and the fact that ASM was restarted as Chapter One. But what does that have to do with anything? And is 1999 even about the year?
Hobgoblin
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JewishHobbit
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In the title. Amazing Spider-Man (1999) #650
I'd say they're still counting this as the 2nd volume then. That's how a lot of places label their titles so they know which volume it is. That's the starting date provided the 2nd volume started in '99, I don't quite remember. I wasn't reading at the time.
I'd say they're still counting this as the 2nd volume then. That's how a lot of places label their titles so they know which volume it is. That's the starting date provided the 2nd volume started in '99, I don't quite remember. I wasn't reading at the time.
Spider-Gnome
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Take Gabriel out of that equation (I really hate everything to do with Sins Past) and you got a deal! I would like to see a better consistent design for Lily (Menace). And I was digging that Jack O'Lantern who I think was being called Mad Jack, but that story kind of fizzled out and I still don't know what his deal was. Dan, maybe you could pick up that plot line too (not that you don't have a LOT on your plate right now!).
A couple of things I forgot to mention, I still really like Ramos' art, and I'm glad those that think he's hit or miss seem to think he's "hit" right now.
I also liked the callback to issue #1 I believe in which Aunt May tells Pete that Uncle Ben hioped he'd be a scientist one day. It was a sweet moment.
melojello10
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big time was good the art was'nt great but it was'nt horrible!!!
Hobgoblin
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If its true that Urich killed Kingsley, than its Kaine killing Doctor Octopus all over again.
JewishHobbit
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I liked Kaine and even as big a Clone Saga fan as I am, I still rolled my eyes with that one.
SpideyInATree
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I'm enjoying things a lot so far. Ramos' artwork has really tightened up. He's sort of bringing the same style he had in the Revelations miniseries he did with Paul Jenkins over at Dark Horse. It was tighter and a little less cartoony. He seems to have found a very nice balance here and it's really great.
With me the jury is still out on whether or not that was really Roderick who bit the dust. I did like the twist with Phil Ulrich I really didn't see that coming at all. I was just happy to see him appear back in the Spider-Man supporting cast after the two Loners miniseries. Cebulski introduced that mental instability into Ulrich and I was wondering if anyone was gonna follow up on it and looks like Mr. Slott did.
Now I think we are getting to see why Peter needs to be wearing a different suit and where he gets the resources to design the said suit...I gotta say it's pretty sweet and while Ramos is doing a great a job I am getting really impatient because I want to see what Caselli and Martin bring with Dan!
With me the jury is still out on whether or not that was really Roderick who bit the dust. I did like the twist with Phil Ulrich I really didn't see that coming at all. I was just happy to see him appear back in the Spider-Man supporting cast after the two Loners miniseries. Cebulski introduced that mental instability into Ulrich and I was wondering if anyone was gonna follow up on it and looks like Mr. Slott did.
Now I think we are getting to see why Peter needs to be wearing a different suit and where he gets the resources to design the said suit...I gotta say it's pretty sweet and while Ramos is doing a great a job I am getting really impatient because I want to see what Caselli and Martin bring with Dan!
Cosmic Humor
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So while I dig the Big Time arc so far, a question is burning in my head.
When exactly was there a good Green Goblins? Was this during the nineties or when?
Also, who thought a 'good' Green Goblin was a good idea. That's like growing a crazy beard, carving a swaztika on your head and calling yourself the 'good' Charles Manson.
When exactly was there a good Green Goblins? Was this during the nineties or when?
Also, who thought a 'good' Green Goblin was a good idea. That's like growing a crazy beard, carving a swaztika on your head and calling yourself the 'good' Charles Manson.
Spidey_62
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It was during the mid 90s around when Ben was Spidey, there was a footnote about that in ASM #648 when Phil appeared.
Cosmic Humor
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I make no judgments on the series itself, but I still object to the basic premise. It's taking on the guise of a psychotic murderer and then asking us to take your word on it, particularly when we don't know who is behind the mask.
Hobgoblin
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We knew right away who was behind the mask. We watched him get doused in Goblin Formula.
JewishHobbit
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He didn't decide to one day become the Green Goblin. He was a good guy who found the suit and chemicals and accidentally got dosed. His powers only worked with the costume so he took the identity and ran with it. It was a great series but it sucks that the best someone can do with an interesting take like that is make him go crazy following the cliched Goblin formula that's already been done with Harry before his death.
I liked what they were doing with him in Runaways and Loners before they began the crazy route then.
I liked what they were doing with him in Runaways and Loners before they began the crazy route then.
Hobgoblin
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Yes, I know. I read the series. I liked it anyway.
Like I said, I liked it anyway.
Vile
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I'm really liking the 'changing of the gaurd' as far Hobgoblins go. Dont get me wrong - Kingsley will always have a place in my heart...
But lets face facts: Norman Osborn isnt going anywhere. We dont need TWO ex-billionair criminal mastermind Goblins running around.
Phil will be the other end of the spectrum and I really hope they continue what they did with his Hero bit, only as a baddie - a thrill seeking villain!
I'd love to see him partner up with The Hood like the old Hobby did with the Rose. I dunno, I think those two characters would work well together.
There is a WHOOOOOOLE lot of potential here and I cant wait!
But lets face facts: Norman Osborn isnt going anywhere. We dont need TWO ex-billionair criminal mastermind Goblins running around.
Phil will be the other end of the spectrum and I really hope they continue what they did with his Hero bit, only as a baddie - a thrill seeking villain!
I'd love to see him partner up with The Hood like the old Hobby did with the Rose. I dunno, I think those two characters would work well together.
There is a WHOOOOOOLE lot of potential here and I cant wait!
chris moore
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I'm finally back on board getting Spidey after a couple years off. And I'm really enjoying it (not sure where I missed Phil going nutso, unless it was a subtle change over time after his getting bathed in goblin juice back in #1 of his series in the 90's). But I can't help but feel that:
1) How much can we buy that Peter, with his "everyman problems and bad luck" doesn't cotton on that maybe he should bank a bit of his paycheque and not live in a hotel suite (and how much can we buy that Aunt May wouldn't make him save it and live sensibly within his means). There's "comic reality", and just plain unbelievable
2) Isn't this pretty much a rehash of the Tricorp time back before MJ's plane blew up? Huge company, part of a think tank of hippy guys and ubernerds who give Peter free reign, but ultimately he gets fired for not bothering to come into work much. You woulda thought Aunt May would remember that time (thereby making her "he made it Ben" line redundant this time around - he already did it with Tricorp, and he already worked for Tony Stark).
1) How much can we buy that Peter, with his "everyman problems and bad luck" doesn't cotton on that maybe he should bank a bit of his paycheque and not live in a hotel suite (and how much can we buy that Aunt May wouldn't make him save it and live sensibly within his means). There's "comic reality", and just plain unbelievable
2) Isn't this pretty much a rehash of the Tricorp time back before MJ's plane blew up? Huge company, part of a think tank of hippy guys and ubernerds who give Peter free reign, but ultimately he gets fired for not bothering to come into work much. You woulda thought Aunt May would remember that time (thereby making her "he made it Ben" line redundant this time around - he already did it with Tricorp, and he already worked for Tony Stark).
Hobgoblin
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He appeared in the Runaways series, where it showed his sanity slowly eroding.
Because characters dont learn from their mistakes, ie, grow and change.
I thought the same thing about Horizon and Tricorp. Again, characters arent allowed to change at all, leading to the recycling of ideas.
I can see the point about two ultra rich Goblins being redundant, but Kingsley deserved a better send off. After 12 years of waiting for his return, he gets killed off in two issues? Bollox. Besides, we dont know that it was Roderick under the mask, as Phil never took it off the head. Still, the fact that Hobby was able to tear the metal door off its hinges with his bare hands does make it look like Roddy bit the dust.
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Dmain_Event
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I know it was Thanksgiving and all, but I thought there would be more discussion.
My first reaction to reading the beginning:
I mean, they went to the trouble of retconning Hobby to what was suppose to be his original id, but then he goes into seclusion because Norman is around, and now that Norman is under arrest, they finally bring him back and then
Of course, they could turn around and say it's the twin brother, but that scene caught me TOTALLY off guard.
I must say, like 'clones, I like subplots. I must say, I think Dan is off to a flying start. I like the "Cult of Goblin" investigation by Norah, the Cat/Spidey team-up (I even chuckled at Cat & Norah discussing Spidey's love life), the fact that Carlie's profession might not make her good dating material, Steve trying to set JJJ straight, and Gargan no longer Venom.
I liked how they worked Phil in Spider-Girl, so, I'm not sure how I feel about this. But, I'm interested to see where this is going.
Again, I'm surprised there hasn't been more outrage from Kingsley fans.
How could it be his twin brother. I thought his twin brother Daniel was Bald?
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