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Discussion in 'SHH Community Forum' started by Brodie Bruce, May 14, 2003.
ha ha lol
Just get rid of him. Nobody likes him, so it's not like you're gonna get hell for it. You'll get a few pats on the back, probably...
I was familar with the woodcut but not the text.
A Medieval Sasquatch
by Dr. W. Henner Fahrenbach
"Fight in the Forest" , a woodcut by Hans Burgkmair (1473-1531).
By approximation, the giant measures about 7' 3" in height with a 14" foot.
The twelfth century saw the flowering of the troubadours in France and the Minnesänger in Germany, Among these, Chrétien de Troyes (ca. 1140-1190) wrote an epic "Yvain", which was recomposed in Old High German by Hartmann von Aue (ca. 1165-1210) in about 1190 as the Celtic Arthurian epic "Iwein" (pronounced "ee-vine"). In the introductory section of this rhymed poem of over 8,000 lines, a knight by name of Kalogrenant recounts an excursion he made for the sake of "âventiure", in which the following events transpired.
Kalogrenant was riding through the wilderness of the Bretagne, an area of dense, swampy forests in northwestern France, when he came upon a clearing, in which a battle between several Wisent (Bison europaeus) and Auerochs (Bos primgenius, extinct since the 17th century) was raging. His somewhat unknightly fright was allayed when he saw a man sitting among the animals. Here follows the original text in Middle High German and my translation into English, which is kept as close to the literal meaning as possible. < NOTE: see reference link for full German text >
There I saw a man sitting
right among all of them:
that caused my mind to be reassured.
But when I came closer
and could really observe him,
I was very frightened of him
as of the animals, if not more so.
His human appearance
was above all monstrous
He looked like a moor,
large and so frightful
that nobody would believe it.
Truly, his head was
bigger than an Aueroch's.
This brute had
unkempt and dirty hair:
It was dense and completely felted up
on the skin of his head
and in his beard,
his face was about an ell wide,
lined with large wrinkles.
There were also his ears
like those of a forest troll,
overgrown as if by moss
With hair the length of a span,
Wide as a pan.
This hulking man had
long, scruffy and gray
beard hair and eyebrows.
His nose was a big as an ox's
short, wide, and nowhere bare.
His face lean and flat
- Oh, how frightful he looked -
his eyes red, angry-looking.
His mouth stretched
in both directions
across his cheeks.
He had strong teeth,
like a boar, not like a man:
out of the door of his mouth
they stuck out,
long, sharp, large and broad.
His head was put on him such
that his rough chin
seemed to be grown to his chest.
His back was curved up,
hunched and bent outward.
He wore peculiar clothes:
two pelts he had put on:
these he had just then
pulled off two animals.
He carried a very large club,
which made me unsettled that close to him.
Kalogrenant subsequently asks him if he means harm, but the answer is "If you don't harm me, I will be a friend" and a short conversation ensues before Kalogrenant departs. Other giants appear subsequently in the epic, but they are described as being simply large armed men with no unusual attributes other than their size.
The translation allows for many alternatives in the pertinent Middle High German dictionaries:
9) - wilde: wild, monstrous, sinister, unearthly, dreadful, creepy.
10) - Môre: moor = generic term for any black-skinned African.
11) - eislîch: terrible, repulsive, horrible.
15) - gebûre: word with negative connotation - lout.
16) - ruozvar: dirty, also sooty black.
20) - ellen: length of a forearm, roughly two feet.
23) - walttôren: German: Waldschrat = forest troll, hermit, hairy forest giant.
25) - span: the width of a spread hand, about 9 inches.
The description of this creature has aspects rather diagnostic of sasquatches: Black skin color, hairiness, head set low on its shoulders, hunched posture. Noteworthy are the ambivalent terms with which the "monster" is referred to here and subsequently: Man, human appearance, brute, monster (G.: Ungeheuer), creature (generally reserved for animals), but also deferentially as "Sir" ("Herre"), when the knight asks him to keep the animals off his back. Needless to say, it is a dramatic description but one that deviates markedly from the run-of-the-mill giants mentioned elsewhere in the epic and may, in fact, be the first verbal description of one of the then-surviving hominids in Central Europe.
I am indebted to Peter Loughlin of Cotati, California, for pointing out the existence of this text.
-- Dr. W. Henner Fahrenbach
Copyright © 2003 BFRO.net
Holy crap that IS interesting. Great find TT!
Ja, that's pretty cool, I must say.
Thanks guys. Here's some more.
Pre-Columbian and Early American Legends of Bigfoot-like Beings
Contemporary Lakota Folklore and Legend
"My travels with Indians began some years ago with the discovery that most traditional communities in North America know of a messenger who appears in evil times as a warning from the Creator that man's disrespect for His sacred instructions has upset the harmony and balance of existence; some say that the messenger comes in sign of a great destroying fire that will purify the world of the disruption and pollution of earth air, water, and all living things. He has strong spirit powers and sometimes takes the form of a huge hairy man; in recent years this primordial being has appeared near Indian communities from the northern Plains states to far northern Alberta and throughout the Pacific Northwest.
--Peter Mathiessen, Introduction, p xxiii.
"There's a lot going on up in that country now," said Archie Fire, referring not only to the threat to the Great Plains from widespread mining but to recent appearances of the big hairy man at Little Eagle, on the Standing Rock Reservation, who came in sign, some people said, of those days at the world's end "when the moon will turn red and the sun will turn blue" and the Lakota people will resume their place at the center of existence"
--Archie Fire, Introduction, xxv-xxvi
"Turtle Mountain was among the many Indian communities that had been visited in recent years by the "Rugaru", as the Ojibway call the hairy man who appears in symptom of danger or psychic disruption in the community. Mary's son Richard talked a little about the appearance of these beings in recent years to Lakota people at Little Eagle, South Dakota. "There were just too many sightings down there to ignore. I mean, a lot of people saw it. Around here, we didn't have many reports; most of them were right here where we live now." He waved his hand to indicate the woods outside, where I camped that night along the lake edge."
--Peter Mathiessen, Introduction, p xxvii
"A few weeks before, the big, hairy man had appeared in Little Eagle for the third straight year, and more than forty people had seen him. "I think that the Big Man is kind of the husband of Unk-ksa, the Earth, who is wise in the way of anything with its own natural wisdom. Sometimes we say that this One is a kind of big reptile from the ancient times, who can take a big, hairy form: I also think he can change into a coyote. He is very powerful. Some of the people who saw him did not respect what they were seeing, they did not honor him, and they are already gone."
--Joe Flying By, Introduction, xxix-xxx
"We've come to an age where we should know better what we are doing," Pete Catches resumed softly, in a silence that followed some meditations on the Big Man, who was trying to save mankind, he said, from the great cataclysm the Indian people knew was coming. "We must now try to understand what is wrong with us, why we have to tamper with and change the forests and the land. We have done this too long--not us, but the white man. Let's not walk on the moon, then fail to understand what this Creation is all about. This is life, this is beautiful, everything is the way it should be."
--Ogala Lakota Medicine Man Pete Catches, Introduction, p xxxviii.
"On the early morning of June 25, Jean Bordeaux, Norman Brown, and Jimmy Zimmerman were sitting up late, down by the creek. 'Maybe around three or four o'clock,' Jean says, 'not long before the sun, we heard something very big walking in the creek. It wasn't any animal, either, and it wasn't like somebody tossing in big rocks; it was plunk-plunk-plunk, like that, big steady steps. Zimmerman was so scared he just ran off, he wanted to wake up Joe, because him and Joe was living in one tent. Norman Brown said it was the Big Man, and that his people over in Arizona knew all about it, but we were all too scared to go down there and look.' In the evening of that day huge dark thunderheads gathered over the Black Hills, followed by wild angry winds and lashing rain that caused property damaged all over the western part of South Dakota.
--Mathiessen, The U.S. Puppet Government, p 149.
The rest is here: http://www.bfro.net/legends/siouanyuchi.htm
Discovery Channel aired a special a few months ago about this, and they used some scientific methods I had never applied to this subject before. They had an expert on mammalian movement examine a supposed film of a Bigfoot, after having a professional runner retrace the exact route and feeding the whole thing into a computer. Then they got an audio expert that examined purported tape of the animal, a fingerprint expert, a computer modeler, and a few more that I forget.
Every single one of them said they thought it was highly likely that this was evidence of a North American Great Ape.
I may have to write to TDC and see if I can get a copy of that show, because it was a far cry from most of the decades old stuff that they show about the Bigfoot phenomenon.
You can find it on DVD and videotape right here:
Hey, that's great! Thanks!
I had missed like the fist five minutes of it so I didn't remember the title.
You're pretty smart for an old guy...
I'm not that old yet! Just a little older than most here at the Hype.
And most likely not even as old as I am. Being in my late thirties, I know I'm older than most here. Except of course for Palladin. He's REALLY old.
LOL yeah get rid of me....And you call yourself a american Cyclops....
how foolish of you.....
Bigfoot Encounter in Northern California
© 2003 by Linda Moulton Howe
There are underground tunnels at the Carmack mine beyond Portola
close to where Sandy Lund and her family have camped nearly every year since the mid-1960s.
In 1974, Sandy, her niece and nephew came face-to-face with an 8 to 10 foot tall Bigfoot.
Then a decade later near the same place, she and her brother were terrified by loud, angry screams
from an unidentified creature that remained in the shadows beyond the camp fire.
May 19, 2003 Reno, Nevada - Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti, Yowi, Skunk Ape - whatever the name around the world - for centuriees people from China to Australia to North America have reported seeing tall, hairy humanoids. I've interviewed dozens of eyewitnesses and even traveled to Laos a couple of years ago with a Discovery Channel television crew on the trail of what the Laotians and Vietnamese call "wild men." See 07-07-02 Earthfiles. We heard lots of stories, but never got close to one - as Sandy Lund of Reno, Nevada did once when she was a teenager camping at the Carmac mine beyond Portola in northern California national forests.
The year was 1974 and the time was 7:30 in the morning. She was walking with her niece and nephew along the fast moving West Fork of the Yuba River. To the left was a steep mountain wall of sheer, slippery rock. Here is Sandy Lund's story about what happened next.
Sandy Lund, Drug Addiction Counselor, Reno, Nevada: "What I noticed when we got half way down a little mound was this tree branch maybe 10 or 15 feet at the very most waving really a lot, out of context with the rest of the trees. I was looking for a big giant bird because it seemed like that's what would make it wave like that. I'm looking and that's when I seen this face like peeking around the tree looking straight at me. It scared me so bad I just froze. I was just frozen because this face was like a gorilla face. Then the body _ I seen it all the way down to about the chest at first because it was leaning out around the tree like to spy on us.
Then my niece seen it and grabbed me. I told them, 'Don't move!' because I didn't know if this animal was going to attack us and I knew, I was taught early never to run from an animal. So, I just froze. I held in one hand the stomach of my nephew to stop him and then my niece. She grabbed the back of me and was crying. I said, 'Just be quiet and don't move.'
I'm watching him and he's just watching us standing there looking at us for the longest time, a good minute! But it seemed like for eternity, I swear. I didn't know what to do. So, I stood there so long looking at him. Then I seen the rest of his body. He like showed the rest of his body and he was really skinny.
The rest is here: http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=531&category=Real+X-Files
We must be close to the same age...
I've seen this photo on several sites over the years, and the story ranges from "this is an alien" to "this is a decomposing guy in a ravine".
This is the supposed real story, edited a bit to make the English better:
Bashar writes, "This is a true story in Ras el Khaimah, United Arab Emerites. This picture has been released as a police report evidence in the UAE. The story is that a young man went in the caves in Ras el Khaimah to take pictures in caves known to be deserted, with a friend. He had been warned not to go. The person who had been with him called the police saying he had seen his friend's flash go off and then his friend screamed. He called his friend but never got an answer and got scared that he'd fallen so went to the police. A few hours later they found the man in the cave dead and the single picture found in his camera is this one.
"Does Sasquatch be real"...a buddy of mine took this pic a while ago...he thinks its bigfoot...you be the judge...
Thats crazy...Is that real?
maybe .........maybe not.......
Oh, this takes me back.
I made it.
what .....the story or the photo.....