Black Panther User Review Thread - Tag Spoilers

A warped history lesson at that...

Warped and race baiting politics aside, the "comic book" and story aspects are completely average at best. The CGI is year 2000 bad and the fight scenes are shaky cam at its worse.

Having thought about the movie, I honestly am having a hard time not rating it at the very bottom of the MCU barrel. Not that it's bad because Marvel has yet to make a bad film but it's just not half as good as everyone is pretending that it is... Black Panther is in danger of becoming the definition of overrated.

I would agree with the criticism regarding some of the CGI, but I think that is more on Coogler than the folks at ILM. Its a challenge to show a computer generated character performing superhuman feats in an artificial environment without it registering a "off" to the human eye. [BLACKOUT] I think most of us would have preferred that the final train fight be replaced with a brutal brawl in the throne room.[/BLACKOUT].

But I must have missed the "race baiting". Was it thr [BLACKOUT]dispute between the brothers?[/BLACKOUT]. The [BLACKOUT]colonizer[/BLACKOUT] quip?. The ending in which our heroes risk their lives to [BLACKOUT]prevent a global race war?[/BLACKOUT]. Because having a discussion that makes you uncomfortable doesnt automatically make it "race baiting".
 
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I would agree with the criticism regarding some of the CGI, but I think that is more on Coogler than the folks at ILM. Its a challenge to show a computer generated character performing superhuman feats in an artificial environment without it registering a "off" to the human eye. [BLACKOUT] I think most of us would have preferred that the final train fight be replaced with a brutal brawl in the throne room.[/BLACKOUT].

But I must have missed the "race baiting". Was it thr [BLACKOUT]dispute between the brothers?[/BLACKOUT]. The [BLACKOUT]colonizer[/BLACKOUT] quip?. The ending in which our heroes risk their lives to [BLACKOUT]prevent a global race war?[/BLACKOUT]. Because having a discussion that makes you uncomfortable doesnt automatically make it "race baiting".

What "discussion" though? There wasn't much of that in this movie. It was more of the drive-by variety. I'm glad you pointed out the colonizer quip at the end, which tainted the movie for me personally. I just sat there thinking "Oh ok, here we go."
 
I want escapism in my movies but to say a movie should stay out of politics is a complete bull to me and in some cases would leave the movie empty.

even some of the most fun movies made had political connotations to them. i.e X-Men, V For Vendatta, The Winter Soldier, The Dark Knight, Hell even the first Kingsman had political messages.
 
I would agree with the criticism regarding some of the CGI, but I think that is more on Coogler than the folks at ILM. Its a challenge to show a computer generated character performing superhuman feats in an artificial environment without it registering a "off" to the human eye. [BLACKOUT] I think most of us would have preferred that the final train fight be replaced with a brutal brawl in the throne room.[/BLACKOUT].

But I must have missed the "race baiting". Was it thr [BLACKOUT]dispute between the brothers?[/BLACKOUT]. The [BLACKOUT]colonizer[/BLACKOUT] quip?. The ending in which our heroes risk their lives to [BLACKOUT]prevent a global race war?[/BLACKOUT]. Because having a discussion that makes you uncomfortable doesnt automatically make it "race baiting".

ILM weren't the only studios incharge of the VFX though.

My guess is that Coogler ran out of money and time and did the best they could with the VFX. Or maybe the money spent on IW and Avengers 4 affected BP.

Hope they learn their lesson for the sequel. I mean for a company that is owned by Disney, you would think the VFX could be top notch
 
I don't think that is the issue. The MCU honestly has had a few dodgy CG bits in their recent films. Spider-Man in the costume looks off, Civil War had a few dodgy CG backgrounds and Stark had floating head syndrome a little, etc. I just think Marvel is using the screen mo-cap so much and trying to push it in ways that are more time consuming and complicated that the results are ending up mixed.

So, I don't blame Coogler. This has been a persisting MCU thing. I am sure it will improve over time.
 
What "discussion" though? There wasn't much of that in this movie. It was more of the drive-by variety. I'm glad you pointed out the colonizer quip at the end, which tainted the movie for me personally. I just sat there thinking "Oh ok, here we go."

There were multiple discussions regarding the role Wakanda should take in the liberation of oppressed African peoples in America and elsewhere. The heroes rejected Killmonger's [BLACKOUT]violent approach and T'Challa decided to build a bridge instead of a wall. Like a fool.[/BLACKOUT] I thought it was an appropriate amount for a tentpole superhero flick.

And you sat there thinking "Oh ok, here we go?" Go where? It was a yuck. Were you sitting there waiting to be offended?
 
There were multiple discussions regarding the role Wakanda should take in the liberation of oppressed African peoples in America and elsewhere. The heroes rejected Killmonger's [BLACKOUT]violent approach and T'Challa decided to build a bridge instead of a wall. Like a fool.[/BLACKOUT] I thought it was an appropriate amount for a tentpole superhero flick.

And you sat there thinking "Oh ok, here we go?" Go where? It was a yuck. Were you sitting there waiting to be offended?

I'm never sitting around waiting to be offended by anything. Albeit your pithy comment slightly offends me.
 
After the rescue mission in Nigeria, when they returned to Wakanda the music started to go "Aaaaaaa..." which really reminded me of the beginning of The Circle of Life (though maybe that's what African music is like). And it turned out that I literally watched a live action version of Lion King.

I love the beginning with the animation accompanying Erik's father's story (remind me of Diana's mother's story in Wonder Woman). Production design of the city is top-notch, which I imagine costs a lot (no wonder this film has Avenger's and Rogue One's budget, despite being the debut of a character). Aside from that there are lots of "wow" factors at the beginning, to the point that I wanted to see the movie again right in the next showing. But there isn't much difference from the usual MCU movies in the later 2/3, so after the movie ended I thought I should probably wait for Superday.

That being said Erik is a compelling and sympathetic villain. He shares more similarities with Erik Lehnsherr than just the first name, but I think he's written better (though I don't remember what Magneto's story was from like a dozen of X-Men movies).
 
It worked fine. Most people realize that the movie didn’t demonize white (or any non-black) people.

... I don‘t know. We have quite a few people here who feel that way. DID they walk into the movie with preconceived thoughts? Maybe. It does show why someone like Ross needed to be there though. I’ve seen debates on the movie that it portrayed African American’s poorly (the first thing the children think of when seeing the Wakandan vehicle is to steal it/sell parts from it)... Of course there are CRICKETS when it comes to that, but we have our undies in a bunch from a foreigner who hasn’t seen someone like Ross in person call him a name. (Stuff like that actually happens when you visit another country where people’s only experience with someone who looks like you is from TV or third party sources)
 
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... I don‘t know. We have quite a few people here who feel that way.

And they’re comfortably in the minority.

Personally, I don’t know how you could watch the film and walk away thinking that one of its messages is that white people are generally bad. I mean...you have black people in the movie criticizing the hell out of an African nation and/or becoming disillusioned with their newly crowned African king. With all due respect, if you think that the film was in any way trying to convince the audience that white people are evil, it says more about you (and I’m speaking generally here) than it does BP.

I’ve seen debates on the movie that it portrayed African American’s poorly

That’s absurd. First of all, there’s literally only one in-universe African-American who receives anything approaching character development. And he’s the villain, so...yeah. He’s not going to be portrayed in the best light. Second of all, the film at no point makes any references to the inferiority of African-Americans in comparison to their African-Americans. Their shortcomings (and consider that “their” in the film refers to black people period) are mostly - if not exclusively - attributed to white people. By the villain. Who you’re not supposed to agree with, because despite his valid points, he’s a murderous, sociopathic extremist.

Putting that aside, a good chunk of the cast and crew are African-Americans. Why on Earth would any of them sign on to BP - the first big budget superhero movie with a mostly black cast - if one of its central messages was, “**** everybody who looks like them?”

(the first thing the children think of when seeing the Wakandan vehicle is to steal it/sell parts from it)...

I mean...yeah. Because they’re poor. I’m sure poor little white kids would want to do the same thing.
 
A warped history lesson at that...

Warped and race baiting politics aside, the "comic book" and story aspects are completely average at best. The CGI is year 2000 bad and the fight scenes are shaky cam at its worse.

Having thought about the movie, I honestly am having a hard time not rating it at the very bottom of the MCU barrel. Not that it's bad because Marvel has yet to make a bad film but it's just not half as good as everyone is pretending that it is... Black Panther is in danger of becoming the definition of overrated.

I should have known it was only a matter of time since you showed up here. I'm glad you did, though, because Coogler would have messed up if you didn't hate this movie :whatever:

I am so, SO happy that Marvel let Coogler integrate political and social commentary into Black Panther. It wouldn't have been right without it, and this sort of thing is what superhero film's need to stay relevant.
 
Saw this again, and it definitely goes down better a second time. It really doesn't even bother me anymore how lackluster the action sequences are or how bad the CGI is, because this movie is super effective on so many other levels. The way it tackles certain themes without being too preachy or in your face is still something I really admire and respect about it, and in a Disney/Marvel movie of all things. What I do love about this movie though is definitely the world building and the way it presents the Wakandan culture.

Michael B. Jordan's Kilmonger is still a beast of a villain as well and is so damn relatable that it becomes hard not to root for him which is pretty epic IMO, and he has to have one of the most powerful last lines of any movie villain ever. That theme is FIRE as **** too lol.
 
Saw this again, and it definitely goes down better a second time. It really doesn't even bother me anymore how lackluster the action sequences are or how bad the CGI is, because this movie is super effective on so many other levels. The way it tackles certain themes without being too preachy or in your face is still something I really admire and respect about it, and in a Disney/Marvel movie of all things. What I do love about this movie though is definitely the world building and the way it presents the Wakandan culture.

Michael B. Jordan's Kilmonger is still a beast of a villain as well and is so damn relatable that it becomes hard not to root for him which is pretty epic IMO, and he has to have one of the most powerful last lines of any movie villain ever. That theme is FIRE as **** too lol.

After watching it the second tie, I think the action scenes are fine but when you compare it to something like Civil War or the Winter Soldier, then the action becomes incomparable.

Fingers crossed they improve on this for an unannounced sequel.
 
I had an easy time not rooting for the genocidal, supremacist Killmonger. That’s scary if people are really rooting for him.
 
I had an easy time not rooting for the genocidal, supremacist Killmonger. That’s scary if people are really rooting for him.

Yeah it sounds wrong, but I honestly felt where he was coming from even though I definitely don't agree with his actions. Lets not get it twisted, Kilmonger was not a good dude, but that's where I give credit Jordan's performance the most, because he was able to make that character relate table and sympathetic in a significant way. I just wish we got a bit more of him in the first half of the movie, so he could been developed a bit better.
 
I give this a strong 9/10, it would have been a 10/10 if it was for the action. I really liked the car chase sequence but everything else was....serviceable and sometimes lackluster. Man, if this movie had some real down and dirty, mean fight choreography like WS and CW, then this movie would've been perfect for me.
 
(some Spolier Alerts)

i really liked Black Panther - i'd give an 8.0 of out 10.
i thought Black Panther was more story-driven than even action-driven. And had been much of what i expected, very colorful cinematography, costumes,very African eccentric,..

my 2 greatest moments in this film:
1) I was really wowed by the Black Panthers new armored costume, the purple look and the new abilities it gave him.
2) and the car chase scene was truly awesome !


Wish the final battle with BP vs Kilmonger could have been more classic and memorable , i did think it was new and clever for BP be based on Civil War. that's a new and fresh in superhero films. During his 2nd experience with the herb and covered over ( snow this time) i enjoyed T'Challa's deep confrontation with his beloved father to even tell him of his wrongdoing and backward self -righteous way of neglect. (abandoned young Killmonger) among the more emotional moments of the film.

i do admit that i was quite surprised by T'Challa's defeat in a ritual challenge by Killmonger (T'Challa's cousin) i had thought (Jordan) had to have been 'drugged/doped up to have singlehandledly beaten T'Challa in hand to hand combat. But nothing became of that.


I liked both villains Claw and Killmonger. Klaw even brought a wacky good sense of humor. sometimes a failure of some superhero films is the lack of appeal of the villains, that's certainly not the case here. i was surprised by Klaw's demise since his character in comics would emerge as a being of solidified living sound. So he won't surprisingly return as such ?


Very good action sequences - from BP opening fight in the jungle vs kidnapping extremists where he jumps from an aircraft, immediately puts me in the mind of Winter Soldier where Capt America his own jump to a boat (and eventually fighting Batroc.)....the big showdown vs Klaw in an Korean casino showdown, , the aforementioned fantastic car chase scenes, (reminded me much like the Matrix speedy highway chase) the ritual challenges battles with Killmonger and Maku, the finale vs Killmonger and W' Kabi (Okoye's love interest?)

And then there's the Wakanda technology and weaponry. force-field shields, spears that possess such force that they can 'stop an armed truck'. and from both speedy bulletproof sports cars and fighting air-jets that can be triggered from a technology laboratory.


and with the fight scenes, i was oh so grateful not to see the annoying shaky-jumping camera work (see Civil War)

i wasn't as big a fan of the rampaging rhinoes as that just didn't excite with suspense,even the most speedy of action course the camera work was steady enough.

but i didn't always get a great feeling or liking for CIA agent Edward Ross whether serious or humorous.

i liked the dream memory drift back with anyone who drinks heart shaped herb and covered by the Red Sand.


Thought TChalla sister Shurik ' was a hilarious stand out humorous side of the film. Surprisingly ditto for M' Baku as well. Also liked "Okoye, T'Challa's trusted personal bodyguard. i thought she was the Wakanda's version of Asgard's Valkeryies.

maybe i am expecting too much from the Peter parker/mary jane connections, but i did not get a strong enough vibe between T'Challa and Nakia as love interests until the very final moments of the film. But unlike the Mary janes and Lois Lanes, i did like that Nakia could fend for herself.


Overall well done work by director Ryan Coogler, i''ve seen in the past where poor choice directors flat ruin a superhero potentials. (see ghost rider, fantastic four, elektra, etc. )

and the african lingo and accent was never overbearing, overpowering and mumbled speech and wording was still very clear and easily understandable.

i'll probably think and recall more later and re-edit this more so. but this was getting started and off my chest initially.
 
Ok guys, you have to learn to respect each other and not just have multiple pages of useless bickering. I just erased 25 posts. If this continues, I am going to make sure more mods frequent this forum and police it heavier.


Remember: R-E-S-P-E-C-T goes a long way, and if you feel the anger coming, walk away for 15 minutes :)
 
An easy 9, the movie is staying with me exiting the theatre the same way TA and TDK did. Unexpected strong dramatic moments.
 
I think when people say they support Erik, they mean his idealogy — using Wakanda’s resources to aid the oppressed vs standing aside looking at the suffering for self preservation, but not his methodology. I haven’t read people saying let’s all get armed up to mass murder the oppressors, and I’ve read a lot about this movie. The discourses this movie has sparked makes it an extraordinary undertaking.
 
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I think when people say they support Erik, they mean his idealogy — using Wakanda’s resources to aid the oppressed vs standing aside looking at the suffering for self preservation, but not his methodology. I haven’t read people saying let’s all get armed up to mass murder the oppressors, and I’ve read a lot about this movie. The discourses this movie has sparked makes it an extraordinary undertaking.

Exactly. Killmonger is the villain and we want him to lose because of how he plans to implement using Wakanda's resources to help other people. But, using Wakanda's resources to help rather than sit on them and say screw the rest of the world is a worthy cause. So, there is something to learn from him, but he was still a monster.
 
OK this conversation is over. Not going to fall trap to your baiting. Grow the hell up.

With all due respect, I'm not trying to bait you. You made a point that the technology was "unrealistic" and I made the point that the MCU, prior to BP, is OVERFLOWING with "unrealistic" technology that nobody batted an eye about. The Iron Man movies alone are filled with unrealistic technology and this argument has never, EVER been broached. Not once.

I didn't insult you or tell you to "grow the hell up", I just posited a reason WHY you might take issue with it.

The fact is Wakanda was established as being a land full of futuristic technology. This isn't something created by the movie, but by Lee & Kirby. So if you take issue with anyone, take issue with the character's creators.
 
With all due respect, I'm not trying to bait you. You made a point that the technology was "unrealistic" and I made the point that the MCU, prior to BP, is OVERFLOWING with "unrealistic" technology that nobody batted an eye about. The Iron Man movies alone are filled with unrealistic technology and this argument has never, EVER been broached. Not once.

I didn't insult you or tell you to "grow the hell up", I just posited a reason WHY you might take issue with it.

The fact is Wakanda was established as being a land full of futuristic technology. This isn't something created by the movie, but by Lee & Kirby. So if you take issue with anyone, take issue with the character's creators.

Out of respect for the mods, going to leave this conversation alone for now.
 
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I really wanted to be wowed by this film especially since it was the one I was looking forward to the most, but it seemed pretty average to me. Entertaining sure, but a few things bothered me:

-Marvel's villain problem. Two great ones [BLACKOUT]killed off[/BLACKOUT]. And to be honest, I never really felt Killmonger was a huge threat. Sure he was a good villain, but if a society is willing to blindly follow someone with messy ideals, mainly [BLACKOUT]"let's arm all African American people with vibranium weapons so they can overthrow people"[/BLACKOUT], for the sake of their nation's traditions, then its time to rethink those traditions and your stance. Really corny and eye rolling for me.

-Lack of emphasis on Wakanda. Felt like a few set pieces and nothing more. Let me see how the "normal" citizens live, what their homes look like, how the schools, hospitals, etc, are. Didn't get a great feel for the nation outside of external architecture and the aesthetics.

-Poor CGI in a few spots. Fight scenes were ok, but man a good number of shots really took me out of the film.

The overall pacing/story was a little sloppy, but ok. Music was great, and aside from the spots of poor CGI some great visuals. Definitely slightly overrated on the whole, but it's still up there as a solid "origin" film. Could have been better and hit an ever higher elevated level, but it just missed the mark.

7.5/10
 

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