Bought/Thought - February 25th, 2009 - Spoilers!

[Mr. Green]

Kill yourself.

Clint has been badass recently, are you kidding me?

 

[hippie_hunter]

Hey Dread, just what did the Dark Reign files say about characters like Rulk, Clor, Batrock, and Ezekiel?

They would seem to be perfect characters for Osborn to use in some fashion such as the Avengers and Thunderbolts.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Clint has been badass recently, are you kidding me?

No he hasn't. He's been annoying

 

[Darthphere]

Clint has been badass recently, are you kidding me?

If by badass you mean horribly written, sure yeah.

 

[Darthphere]

No he hasn't. He's been annoying

Bendis writes Clint and Ultimate Peter Parker the same way. That should tell you something. Oy.

 

[hippie_hunter]

It actually was pretty cool, in context.

Not really. The fight with the Hood was meh. I wanted to see them fight the Dark Avengers like the cover showed. But instead we get a fight with the Hood which already happened in previous issues with a horrible two page spread that has Wolverine grinning like a jackass and looking like he's trying to say "Heeeeey" like Fonzie.

 

[kguillou]

I dont see what's wrong with the way bendis is writing Clint. I dont see what he's done thats so horribly out of character either. After what he did at the end of #50, his coolness factor went way up for me at least.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I wouldn't say that he's out of character, he's just...annoying.

 

[samurai black]

I wouldn't say that he's out of character, he's just...annoying.

I like to point out that since Bendis killed, resurrected, then killed only to resurrect again, Clint Barton aka Hawkeye aka Ronin, HE HAS NOT WORN HIS AVENGERS UNIFORM AND HE'S BEEN USING A SWORD AND AN UZI. HE'S SHOT ARROWS MAYBE TWICE(?). If that's not being written as "out of character" I don't know what is. A different writer would've had Clint in purple and slinging arrows the 2nd ish he was back.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I like to point out that since Bendis killed, resurrected, then killed only to resurrect again, Clint Barton aka Hawkeye aka Ronin, HE HAS NOT WORN HIS AVENGERS UNIFORM AND HE'S BEEN USING A SWORD AND AN UZI. HE'S SHOT ARROWS MAYBE TWICE(?). If that's not being written as "out of character" I don't know what is. A different writer would've had Clint in purple and slinging arrows the 2nd ish he was back.

Gotta point there

 

[imdaly]

Maybe it's the fact that I know next to nothing about 90% of the characters in Mighty Avengers...

...maybe it's the fact that I really don't care much for magic/mystical storylines...

...but I definitely have to agree that New Avengers soared above Mighty Avengers the past 2 issues.

I love me some Dan Slott writing, so it's not that. But I guess I just don't care too much for the characters or the situation in Mighty so far because I'm not vested in them really at all yet, save for maybe Iron Man.

New Avengers was great because I'm familiar with all of these characters now (save for Mockingbird) and I'm loving the political and personal conflict that's happening here rather than a magical god-centered story where I don't even know the story behind most of the characters on both sides. And New Avengers had a solid unexpected twist to it. It's a double-edged sword because I was definitely looking forward to a good NA vs. DA fight like the cover teased, so that was disappointing, but it allowed for an unexpected twist which, to me, was worth delaying a true NA vs. DA fight for now.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not really capable of a fair comparison of the two books right now, since again, I really just have no clue what the heck is going on in Mighty right now, but as it stands for me right now NA continues to be towards the top of my "Must Read" list each month and Mighty's down towards the bottom where I'll still make sure I read it but I'm not itching to read it asap.

 

[hippie_hunter]

New Avengers....booo

Mighty Avengers....yay

 

[THANOSRULES]

dread wheres Nova 22

 

[Dread]

INCREDIBLE HERCULES #126: Getting back on track, this is a bit of a "filler" issue that offers a 22 page "definitive" origin of Marvel's Hercules along with a 6 page "saga" style recap of his adventures and a 10 page back-up story about Cho's search for his lost coyote pup, Kirby. That's 32 story pages and an extra 6 page recap thing for $3.99, which I suppose is fair. I might be more irritated were it not for a title I enjoy as much, but it isn't. With so many comics being $3.99 as normal 22 page issues these days, one overpriced issue now and again isn't anything abnornal. INCREDIBLE HERCULES sells 31k a month now, so I suppose it needs any boost it can get.

Pak & Van Lente team with Buchemi to copple together some of Marvel's past origins for Hercules and weave them into a composite whole tale, or "myth". I was almost expecting something grander or more controversial but instead they know best to stick to the basics and at least acknowledge the rest. Hercules is the son of Zues, who took the form of a mortal woman's husband in Thebes to bed her, giving birth to a son with incredible strength, but not always the means to control it. He gained the invulnerability from Hera's breastmilk (where a nip from the babe helped cause Hela's vengeance afterward). But in a way what it less important than the origin in a way is the grasp of Hercules as a character, which Pak & Van Lente have second to none. Their Hercules has been someone who was granted incredible might whether in ancient terms or modern, who has not always sought the best way to use it, or could always control it (such as when he accidently killed his music teacher). When Hercules thrashes some barbarians threatening Thebes, he ends up endangering a deal the king made with their leader to sacrifice tribute for warfare. Hercules encourages the Thebian army to reclain the weapons they have left at their alter to the gods to take on the horde, but when they refuse, Hercules willingly allows himself to be locked in a dungeon to be given to the enemies. It is there that he learns of his godly heritage and gains his iconic garb from his mother, made in celebration for his defeat of the Nemean Lion. He vows to live up to his errors and honor his parents. He seemingly gives himself to the horde, but proves invulnerable to their weapons; the Thebian army then comes to vanquish the threat, and Hercules' mortal father Amphitryon is slain before him. Of course, Hercules' legacy was fortold by both gods and sooth sayers alike. It was a good tale with solid art that unlike FF this week, presented a "mundane" story that actually had heart as well as action and told a lot more than two scenes. It worked as a character piece, as well as a myth with good art and modern dialogue. It had been a while since I saw a younger Hercules without the beard, which worked to sell the first pages.

The "saga" is what it is, but mostly was a recap of the Pak & Van Lente era, and next was the story of "The Search for Kirby", with art by Miyazawa (who often has done fill in stuff for RUNAWAYS). This story is a bit less epic and almost mundane, but sweet and simple in a way. Cho sneaks into an abandoned base where Banner is hiding and seeks his aid in locating his lost pup. In reality, he manipulates him into following him to distract the ensuing military. Cho learns that Kirby has returned to the wild, gotten older and has a mate. While he recognizes Cho, the wolf also is wild enough to try to bite at him now. The wolves would have been blown to atoms (along with Cho) if the Hulk had not been there to protect him. Cho departs, having learned his lesson. It isn't the best story, but for a 10 page back up I have read far worse from MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS and ASTONISHING TALES over the years; for what it is, it's not bad. Miyazawa struggles with drawing the Hulk in some panels, though. He has a better handle on Hulkling. I'm not as keen on animal sidekicks as some readers so I don't really "miss" Kirby, but I am glad that a 10 page back up, and not a full issue or even two for all we knew, were used to settle this subplot. For 10 pages it works.

Next issue of course starts the DARK REIGN stuff with Athena's fomer New Warrior champion Aegis showing up, which is an excellent idea, and an obligatory rematch with Ares and his team of Dark Avengers. Looks sweet, and in a way reframing who Hercules is and where he came from helps us dive into this new tale with new vigor. This month as always, an incredibly good book that lives up to the title, again and again.

MIGHTY AVENGERS #22: Already this book is dividing fans; some who love the return to old school style superheroics with Earth's Mightiest Heroes, and those who hate it and see it as why Bendis was brought in to revive the line with decompression, bleakness, and lots of words. While I agree in a way that Chthon and Modred the Mystic are not THE best rogues ever for the start of a run, I however am enjoying the rest of Slott's start up and his classic yet a bit rocky roster so far. It remains to be seen if the sales hold up; this was a book that averaged about 80-85k under Bendis. Still, the plot ties into Avengers history and the characters. Wundagore mountain and reviving Chthon ties back into Wanda's past, only this time it is her brother Pietro who has been forced into being a vessal for the revived dark god. I actually like Pham's redesign for his costume, although Chthon redesigns it in his own image very quickly; much like many of the other heroes on the team, Pietro is trying to redeem himself. I doubt he will last on the book, though.

There is some awkward dialogue at the start of the issue to rattle off everyone's name, which is made moot from the recap page that names everyone, but it was an appropriate reaction. Stature would want revenge on Scarlet Witch for murdering her father; the Hulk always is in the mood for a fight with anyone who moves, Hercules usually gives a punch as a greeting, and U.S. Agent was taken from a fight and thrown in the middle of unregistered heroes. It is no wonder chaos ensues (and the aggressive Walker goes to tackle Hercules of all people; that takes come cajones). After the Hulk damages Jocasta with a punch, Pym calls an end to the fight, which allows the Hulk to bound away and Scarlet Witch to perhaps realize her selected champions were a bit misplaced. Later she pits Iron Man against the Hulk and virtually things that was an error when Hulk practically flattens him into the ground for a while.

The team retreats to a local tavern that Walker commandeers for their mission as Chthon uses Quicksilver's form to spread his magic even further across the world, from Europe to Russia and back again. Some dismiss this as cliche, but I am not phased; haven't writers from various stories had moments like this to convince us that their threats were vitally important? Yes, we know it will be undone, that it won't last. Do we really need to have every genre contrivance explained, overexplained, and made more melodramatic than it already is? Can't we just enjoy the ride? Yes, actually enjoy a comic for once rather than wince because some no name New Avenger has been slain by Ninja after 21 pages of talking in a bathroom, or whatever Bendis thinks is thrilling? I'd rather have "of course it will be undone" pages of heroes around the world fighting magic than 15 damn pages of heroes watching TV and chittering about it. The fact that Bendis has convinced us that spending an entire issue on a two minute, mundane-as-grass scene is what comics should be is one of the tragedies of 21st century comics, and the Ultimate line (7 issues for Spidey to don his costume, remember that?).

While the last issue focused a bit on Pym's esteem issues revolving the other Avengers and his feeling he was ill equipped to lead the team, this issue actually doesn't have anyone job to him to prove it. Walker is his usual abrasive self, criticizing Pym's "stun beam" gun and acting like he is the leader and managing to come off as chief jerk in an issue that also has Hercules, Hulk, and Iron Man in it, which is an incredible feat. Being a jerk is what Walker does best, though, so that is fine. Pym manages to figure out how to beat Modred's golems, but it is Iron Man who ends up saving them by blasting the mage, after he managed to beat the Hulk. You know the Hulk has been overpowered when the notion of him actually being defeated by exploding rocket fuel seems mundane, but considering how many characters must job to the Hulk for plot convenience, I don't get miffed when every now and then he must do so for another. Iron Man proclaims that he is taking over from there, and from that situation it is hard to disagree.

In some ways Stature and Vision seemed more tacked on in this issue than the last. While I don't mind Stature wanting to avenge her father via fighting Scarlet Witch, she and Vision sort of got lost in the crowd a bit here, but that isn't surprising from the large cast. Once the herd is thinned a bit next issue, I expect things to get better. I like the idea of some of the Young Avengers stepping up to the big leagues for a while, so why not Stature and Vision? The Avengers without "a" Vision seems weird, and Stature is dating him. None of the other YA work well without the others aside for Patriot, and having two super strong guys with shields on the same team would be a little silly. I wouldn't have minded Wiccan and Speed, though, if only so they could bond with their "mother" and Marvel could almost have another quirky family beyond the Fantastic Four. Speed had a better costume than Quicksilver has ever had, anyway, and could use the fleshing. But, still, expecting Stature not to want to fight Scarlet Witch at this point after she killed her father would be akin to Spider-Man happily teaming up with a zombie of the Burglar that happened to join a fight without a sniffle. I imagine in time relations may be smoothed over.

Out of all of them, the Hulk of course is the one who seems to clash the most with the rest, hating all of them and not being interested. I actually wouldn't mind if Iron Man stuck around, especially since being on the run from Osborn would mean needing allies again, or a place to stay in Pym's Pocket Place. Besides, how can Slott try to make the argument that Pym can be as good a leader as Stark if Stark is always off panel? If this team is mostly about redemption in a way, then Iron Man more than fits in. Besides, without the Extremis he would be the one person there without biological/magical super-powers, which every team needs.

Pham's art is good for the action sequences and fine for the rest; there are better artists I could imagine on the book, but Miki's inks help Pham's pencils a bit. A bit happens within 22 pages and it looks like next issue will be the showdown with Chthon, which should be interesting now that he has a body that can move super-fast. I am enjoying the return to classic characters and classic adventure in Mighty Avengers, and feel that it has a place in Marvel, and has been long overdue on the franchise. Marvel has trained readers over the last five years to disagree, though, so I am not surprised that many do.

dread wheres Nova 22

Here.

NOVA #22: Saving the best for last, practically, is the ongoing saga of Richard Rider and the reborn Nova Corps, with new series penciller Andrea DiVito on interiors, which I think is a great fit. DiVito is a solid artist, adept at everything from adventure to space aliens and had experience with the characters drawing the original ANNIHILATION. I think this is a perfect fit.

After last issue, Richard was stripped of his powers and title of Nova Prime by Worldmind, which had been convinced that he was insane when he didn't want to surrender his full power. Richard felt Worldmind was escalating recruitment too quickly and was less than thrilled when frequent space menace Ego was basically lobotomized to serve as Nu Xanadar. Rich was hardly thrilled when the government made a villain like Venom into a federal agent within the Thunderbolts, and he didn't shift his moral compass just because it was Worldmind doing something shady; one of the major reasons why Rider has grown on me so much as a hero is that he hasn't compromised his morals when it was convenient, as many Marvel heroes now do.

Worldmind is off on mass recruiting humans into the Nova Corps, dozens at a time. The first bit with the NY cop being "tapped" during a basketball game was of course an homage to NOVA #1's first scene from the 70's. The new recruits are plucked from nations across the globe and greeted on Nu Xandar by Robbie Rider, who has grown into his role as a Nova. Richard, powerless on Earth, has some bit of heart to heart with his father (who thankfully is not freaking out as much as he was some 20 issues ago) as he is driven to the PEGASUS building to meet with Necker and the revived Quasar (Wendell Vaughan). Learning that Darkhawk has left the center (see his WOK mini), Richard presents the situation and has them run a battery of tests on him.

The crux of the issue of course comes in the latter half of it. After asking Necker to lure Robbie and Irani to their center, they use a specifically designed room to cut off the two Corps connection to Worldmind. After which, the two learn what Richard and Necker have realized; Worldmind is using subliminal suggestion and hormone injections to essentially take control of everyone in the Corps so none would disobey him like Richard often did. Rather than Richard being driven insane by storing the entire Nova Force, it seems it was Worldmind that had gone insane, or at least more aggressive in suppressing disorder, especially with human Centurians, which now make up some 95% of the new Nova Corps. Worldmind sends some of the alien recruits to smash the room and essentially threaten Richard not to interfere again. The final page has your classic cliffhanger ending with Necker informing Richard that his body had been restructured to house the Nova Force for much of his life and without any of it, he will die in two days. It had been over a decade real time since he was last "depowered". This of course gives Richard all the motivation to ultimately become Quasar somehow and take on the Worldmind.

The idea of the mentor becoming "evil" isn't a new one, but it is in the execution that Abnett & Lanning excell. Through a story like this they essentially are renewing the old moral that it it isn't a hero's powers that make them what they are, but the person inside. It was Richard's character that kept him from being corrupted by having so much power for so long and not even the all-intelligent Worldmind was free of it. I wouldn't have minded if being infected with the Phalanx had been stated to have aided in this, but obviously the moral of the story isn't that Worldmind is being infected with a bug or still has after effects, it was that it was corrupted by power and now is overstepping human bounds for obedience. Making Nova Corps into mindless drones is not what it was all about; it would be akin to the Guardians psychically controlling all of the Green Lanterns into being their puppets. It might be efficient in battle, but squashing diversity and dissention for order isn't justice; it's a dictatorship.

The showdown between Richard and Worldmind in the backdrop looks to be a helluva ride and as usual, I can't wait for the next issue to hit the stands, which is as it should be.

 

[Mr. Green]

Maybe it's the fact that I know next to nothing about 90% of the characters in Mighty Avengers...

...maybe it's the fact that I really don't care much for magic/mystical storylines...

...but I definitely have to agree that New Avengers soared above Mighty Avengers the past 2 issues.

I love me some Dan Slott writing, so it's not that. But I guess I just don't care too much for the characters or the situation in Mighty so far because I'm not vested in them really at all yet, save for maybe Iron Man.

New Avengers was great because I'm familiar with all of these characters now (save for Mockingbird) and I'm loving the political and personal conflict that's happening here rather than a magical god-centered story where I don't even know the story behind most of the characters on both sides. And New Avengers had a solid unexpected twist to it. It's a double-edged sword because I was definitely looking forward to a good NA vs. DA fight like the cover teased, so that was disappointing, but it allowed for an unexpected twist which, to me, was worth delaying a true NA vs. DA fight for now.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not really capable of a fair comparison of the two books right now, since again, I really just have no clue what the heck is going on in Mighty right now, but as it stands for me right now NA continues to be towards the top of my "Must Read" list each month and Mighty's down towards the bottom where I'll still make sure I read it but I'm not itching to read it asap.

I agree. Cage getting his baby back and kicking ass with the Asgardian crowbar was awesome and I agree with what you said about NA #50. I was a double-edged sword. It went with the DA time-line too and that was cool.

Plus, it was awesome the way all the artists associated with certain characters got to do pages from that character's POV. It was cool.

But DA is the best Avengers book for me. The art is just incredible and so far it's surpassed the other two Avengers books in bad-assitude.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Dark Avengers is good on account that they at least tell you that these guys aren't the real Avengers and it will come to an end eventually.

 

[JewishHobbit]

So far, of the 4 Avenger titles (New, Mighty, Dark, and Initiative) I have to say I'm tied between New and Initiative. New would be at the top spot if not for Bendis' dialogue in issue 50. And Initiative would be top spot if not for Ramos' art. So they're tied. Dark Avengers is right there though. Deadato is my favorate comic artist so brownie points there but nothing's really gone on so far that's wowed me enough to bump it up. It definately has the option though. And Mighty isn't doing it for me so far. I don't think it's bad by any means, I just don't really care. I was never a fan of the classic Avengers so it's only natural that I'd feel a bit detatched from this one.

Though I will say, the book that's surprised me out of this Dark Reign, one I was planning on dropping, is Thunderbolts. Both issues have been great and I find myself really looking forward to each issue. I don't think i've read anything by Diggle before but he's a good writer. And the art's phenominal as well. His two issues that disassembled the original Norman squad were great and convinced me to give the first issue of the new team a try and I loved it and the newest one. Good stuff. I actually like Thunderbolts better than any of the actual Avenger titles currently.

But still, for me, Cosmic's where it's at. Nova and the Guardians of the Galaxy, along with all the War of Kings stuff going on currently... and even the past two issues of Skaar Son of Hulk... it's all great.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I actually like Thunderbolts better than any of the actual Avenger titles currently.

Doesn't Thunderbolts count as an Avengers title now that Osborn pretty much turned the team into the Dark Avengers' assassination/black-ops squad? Sorta like what Cyclops did with X-Force.

Black Widow even says that they're the sister team to the Avengers.

 

[Mr. Green]

No, because the Avengers have never really been about that. Both New and Mighty do pretty much stand for and do what Avengers teams typically do. Even Osborn's Dark Avengers fit because the public sees them as a typical Avengers team and they probably will fight some bad guys for one reason or another.

But just like X-Force doesn't really qualify as an incarnation of the X-Men, I really don't think anyone sees the T-Bolts as an Avengers team.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Avengers Books IMO:

1. Mighty.
2. New.
3. Initative.
4. Dark (I could care less about most of the characters in it (Norman Osborn being pretty much the only one I could give a rats ass to read about) and don't see why it needed to be an ongoing or how it will out last Dark Reign.)

 

[THANOSRULES]

Bendis hating..is just reaching a new level.

Seems the reviews are getting hot between Slott's Mighty and Bendis New/Dark..with sides on this board clearly drawn.

As for me..I think Dark is a crap sandwich after 2 issues...and I think the same for New Avengers.

 

[imdaly]

1. New
2. Dark
3. Initiative
4. Mighty

I haven't read "Young" in so long I wouldn't know where to put that.

 

[Red]

That's a really good point. This is very classic in its presentation as well as its content, which means smaller panels and lots of information per issue. On one hand, it's good because it allows the story to move along more briskly (a "widescreen" comic probably wouldn't have even introduced Chthon until the end of this issue), but it doesn't really get in your face and scream "this is important s***!" too well. Much as I hate to admit it, this series could really use a few more splash pages. It'd be awesome if we could get someone like Steve McNiven on this for an arc, but seeing as it's the Avengers book for us "old" fans, I'm sure Joe Q would never deign to waste his talents on it.

McNiven would be the perfect fit for this book

 

[THANOSRULES]

1. New
2. Dark
3. Initiative
4. Mighty

I haven't read "Young" in so long I wouldn't know where to put that.

Well I think Dan Slott is doing just fine after 2 issues -let's give him a bit more time before we diss it(frankly I have been impressed)...Bendis NEW blows goats and has since issue numero 1...and he's had plenty of time to prove himself.

So there for your list.

 

[imdaly]

Well I think Dan Slott is doing just fine after 2 issues -let's give him a bit more time before we diss it(frankly I have been impressed)...Bendis NEW blows goats and has since issue numero 1...and he's had plenty of time to prove himself.

So there for your list.

I agree that 2 issues in Mighty is "just fine". It is just fine. Nothing bad, but nothing really exciting either, IMO. I'm a big big fan of Dan's other work so far, so I'm not in any way dissing it. I'm sticking with the title because I have faith in him. And like I said in my earlier post here tonight, a lot of my being unexcited about this is most likely due to me not having much of ANY clue about nearly all of the characters in this book right now. I don't know who these villains are, so I have no idea what kind of threat they're posing, and I don't know much about most of the heroes, so I don't know what powers and personalities they have that they'll be able to use to overcome the villains.

And you and I will just have agree to disagree with Bendis on NA. I've been loving it for 50 issues so far.