Bought/Thought for February 16th, 2011 - SPOILERS

[JewishHobbit]

Man, I'd like free bags! I've visited tons of shops over my years and never once have I found one that gave bags or boards with new comics!

Quicksilver appeared in this issue. I do agree about Justice and Speedball, though. However, Speedball, written by Gage, will be featured in a FEAR ITSELF mini series, so I imagine Gage was saving focus on Baldwin until there. Justice is a problem because it is a subplot that Veil has a crush on him, yet we are told about it more than shown; it was only shown in issues one and five (of nine).

And I was curious about that one but with my budget needing to downgrade I won't be getting it.

The New X-Men are grim and depressing. The Young Avengers are no more fleshed out than the Academy kids despite having been in print for SIX YEARS. At the very least, some Avengers genuinely care about the well being of the Academy kids and are actively trying to teach, defend, and help them. The Young Avengers, meanwhile, are manipulated and/or hunted or left to die by the Avengers at virtually every juncture.

The New X-Men were only depressing during Kyle and Yost's first 12 issues or so. I don't think anyone else died after that until Wolfcub in Young X-Men a year or more later.

And honestly, that generation went 37 issues before anyone died (including New Mutants, which it relaunched from, a one shot, and a Hellion mini). Had mass death for 12 issues, then went another 24 issues (including the X-23 mini that tied in and Young X-Men) before the next death occured. It then went another 7 until cancelation... so 1 death in 2 1/2 years after Kyle and Yost's initial splurge. All in all I think there were 5, maybe 6 deaths (and a dozen or two nameless students in the bus deal) in 71 issues. Slott probably matched that in Initiative and is halfway there already in, what 7 or 8 issues of Amazing Spider-Man? And yet you praise those dudes. Double standard anybody?

And honestly, the New X-Men class was fantastic even before the splurging and they were all brand new. I loved them! The Splurging sucked but it was all done in a way that really played the story into something great. And that one random death in Young X-Men was dealt with and turned Rockslide into a very 3-demensional character and my favorite of that generation.

So no, death and destruction isn't needed at all to make great new character that last and New X-Men, I feel, proved that. They were new and built a following for 3 years before the first death... and that was for somewhere around 20 or so characters... not just 6 or so new ones that Academy has. With relaunches and connecting minis they went around 70 issues and are still prominant every month in various ongoings and minis from X-Force to X-Men Legacy to Uncanny X-Men.

So I don't know what you're ranting about New X-Men for.

It seems to me that the only way some of you can care about a book with new characters is if every issue, one of them is slated to die, and in every four, one of them does (NEW X-MEN, basically). The graveyard of the X-Mansion is probably full of more bodies than Arlington National at this rate. Well, SPIDER-GIRL just killed off the main character's father in issue two; all of you should be all over that.

I just showed how you apparently didn't read New X-Men's run to know what you're talking about there... AND I just said in that same post that the reason I'm debating on dropping Amazing Spider-Man is due to the constant deaths... did you miss that point? It doesn't matter if it's new or not.

In the scenerio with Avengers Academy... it's very bleh thus far. I find nothing there to care about these characters with save maybe one or two. Now, if it were in my budget I wouldn't mind waiting for them to grow but it's been 3/4 of a year and I still feel like their story has barely progressed. By this time in Young Avengers we'd established all the characters, built connections between them, established Patriot's origin and drug problems, played out the entire Iron Lad storyline and got Vision out of it, and were in the early process of discovering the secrets behind Hulkling and Wiccan.

In Academy we've learned that they're new, troubled, went on a few small adventures that didn't amount to much, and haven't impacted all that much in or out of the title. Young Avengers have grown stagnant over the years but comparing Academy to them where they were at this point is apples and oranges in my opinion.

I wouldn't say nothing happened. The Avengers talked it over and Tigra admitted she was over reacting and even being hypocritical towards the kids, not letting them learn something she did. As for Taskmaster, Gage was in a rock and a hard place. Determine 100% that Finesse is his child and completely and forever shut down that subplot, of which there would literally be nothing more to do with it (beyond ripping off Teen Titan's schtick with Deathstroke's annoying daughter Rose). Or leave that door at least a little open for some discussion and doubt and whatnot. I thought the fact that Taskmaster was willing to take a chance on Finesse despite things not being 100% between them was a test of character. The scene between them at the end was actually bittersweet at best. Finesse hadn't had a focus episode since issue 2 and she is a character who needs to at least attempt to be sympathetic now and then. Often she comes off like a ***** when the focus isn't on her.

Let me rephrase that... nothing happened of importance. With a small exception of whatever comes of the Finese plot (which I don't see being much at this point) nothing happened to put us in a different place than where we were at the beginning of last issue. Their story didn't move forward all that much.

It just seems to me that the same people who whine and cry about their favorite characters being killed, mutilated, or reset with mystical deals with devils and roll their eyes when Marvel promises destruction and thunder every month can't pay attention at any comic that doesn't do that. You can't have it both ways. And if all comics do is destroy without building, eventually all you have is scorched earth.

I think you're going on rants due to being offended at people downing Academy or something because this has little to do with what I was talking about. But putting it planely... to pay attention to the comics that don't do it (and most of us do pay attention to them) they have to be good to capture our attention. For me, Academy isn't anywhere near good enough to keep me. I keep buying it because I like student books in general and I see the potential in it, but I've been very disappointed in it so far and if I have to cut things it's a top runner due to that.

And I obviously pay attention and stick with light hearted comics being that in that review up there I also stated Batgirl as my favorite DC title each month... a VERY lighthearted book. And I could ask you this... why aren't you reading Batgirl? or better yet... Echo? It's light hearted while serious, little doom and gloom, a fantastic read with two people who've been bragging about it for two years now (Phaed and I) and is independant and a low seller. It could use the sales but you aren't giving it a shot. At least I gave Academy at least 9 issues. So is your deal that people aren't supporting the smaller good titles or that people aren't supporting the smaller good titles that YOU want them to support?

As for Giant Man, I hate his creepy antenna but don't mind the rest. I'm with Absorbing Man on this one; Pym as the Wasp did usually feel like he was fighting crime in a dress; Janet just owned that name for over 45 years. It's like if Princess Diana died and Nemesis decided to fight in her colors and name as Wonder Man. I'd snicker every time I saw him. I wouldn't have minded a return to Doctor Pym, though. Everyone calls him that, anyway. Like Reed Richards; no one but out of touch law enforcement ever call him "Mr. Fantastic" anymore.

Eh, I liked his Wasp deal best... but then I never liked Janet and seldom read anything with her. Right now, when I think Wasp, I think of Hank Pym.

 

[runawayboulder]

The fill-in art for AVENGERS ACADEMY has been good, too. I like Jorge Molina, who collaborated with Gage for the end run on AVENGERS: THE ACADEMY. Tom Raney is the next regular artist, but Sean Chen will be drawing an issue before then.

Does anybody know where McKone is going after this? A Google search gave me nothing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Man, I'd like free bags! I've visited tons of shops over my years and never once have I found one that gave bags or boards with new comics!

My current one does, but they only give a 15% discount to subscribers, regardless of how many comics are on your pull list. But the owner's a nice guy, so I doubt I'll ever leave that shop unless I move.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Does anybody know where McKone is going after this? A Google search gave me nothing.

I'll see him in a couple weeks at the Comic Con. I'll try and remember to ask him.

Batman #707

Boy, I really felt like I was reading a rejected Daredevil storyline, and only the names and places had been changed. The story was only okay, because it all felt rather generic and the characters uninspired. .

Soldier Zero #5

I was surprised to see Abnett and Lanning as the new writers for this title. I hope they aren't starting to stretch themselves a bit too thin. That said, this issue isn't much different from what I've thought about Infestation. It's not bad; but, there isn't much to wow the reader. With the first danger to the main character over, we get another who takes the battle to a local hospital. Too bad, because the book needs a little breather from the action to get people more invested in the characters. A mild .

Proof Endangered #3

I'm really loving this book again. It's great to see some of my favorite characters back in action (mainly, Proof's partner), and the action is coming fast and furious. About my only complaint might be all the various cut-scenes; and, just when you're getting interested in one part, we switch to another. Still, it's all coming together now, and I expect things will only get better and better.

This time, a strong !

28 Days Later #20

This title is usually very enjoyable; but, the ending came so suddenly and out of nowhere, that it had me seriously wondering if the book's been cancelled. I guess we're going to have another issue; but, how disappointing how Nelson wrapped up this storyline in just a couple pages.

The Boys #51

Still an interesting issue; but, sometimes The Boys suffers very much from being WAY too heavy on dialogue. And, it's dialogue that I think only Ennis really understands everything being said. Parts of this issue I really enjoyed, as it sets up the future final confrontation between The Boys and The Seven; but, some portions were just overly talky and dull.

Brightest Day #20

The Aquaman portion of this story comes to an end. It was alright; but, I'm hoping the whole finale has a bigger payoff, especially since we've been committed to this book for 20 issues now. Every ending for the characters just seems to be trying to establish some new direction or change for them. In this, we get quite a few, like Aquaman losing his hand...again. And, Mera having a HUGE power upgrade.

DC Universe Online Legends #2

Another really good issue! We're getting a very satisfying What If style story, as Luthor has brought together the various heroes and villians to take down Brainiac. The cut scenes between the Present and Future are nicely handled; and, I find myself popping this title to the top of my Must Read pile whenever it comes out again. t:

Jennifer Blood #1

The brief preview a few weeks ago did nothing for me; but, reading the entire issue made me definitely put it on my pull list. The narration for this issue is from Jennifer Blood's diary; and, that works well in letting the reader get to know the main character more, and the thoughts that are going through her head. Best of all, you don't have to worry about getting too invested in this book after reading the first issue, as it's pretty much a well contained one-off story. A strong !

Hulk #30

I HATED this issue...but, I've never been a fan of the Impossible Man. It's all rather silly, and for me, Parker's first failure of an issue. Thankfully, it's a done-in-one story.

Wolverine And Jubilee #2

The only thing that sucks about this comic is that it's not ongoing. I LOVED IT!!! Jubilee hasn't been this interesting in ages, and Immonen writes her relationship with Logan nicely. I especially LOVED seeing Jubes back in her old outfit. Just a great title, and even better than Marvel is making the price very reasonable to those hesitant to give it a try. t:

 

[Dread]

Does anybody know where McKone is going after this? A Google search gave me nothing.

He will be drawing a FEAR ITSELF: SPIDER-MAN mini series. Given that his last major run on any ongoing title before AVENGERS ACADEMY was AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, I suppose you can go home again.

The mini series comes out later in the year and is about 4 issues or so; which is about how many issues McKone can do monthly with enough lead in time before running late.

The New X-Men were only depressing during Kyle and Yost's first 12 issues or so. I don't think anyone else died after that until Wolfcub in Young X-Men a year or more later.

And honestly, that generation went 37 issues before anyone died (including New Mutants, which it relaunched from, a one shot, and a Hellion mini). Had mass death for 12 issues, then went another 24 issues (including the X-23 mini that tied in and Young X-Men) before the next death occured. It then went another 7 until cancelation... so 1 death in 2 1/2 years after Kyle and Yost's initial splurge. All in all I think there were 5, maybe 6 deaths (and a dozen or two nameless students in the bus deal) in 71 issues. Slott probably matched that in Initiative and is halfway there already in, what 7 or 8 issues of Amazing Spider-Man? And yet you praise those dudes. Double standard anybody?

I could attribute the same standard to Dan Slott on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. While BIG TIME marked his first run as the SOLO WRITER on that title, he has been writing regularly on ASM since the start of 2008. 2-3 other writers shared that series with him, but to be fair his arcs tended to be the more important ones, i.e. the one that shifted Eddie Brock into Anti-Venom (and had John Romita Jr. return to the series). So while Slott has only been writing 100% of ASM (or at least 95% as his last few issues were co-written by Fred Van Lente) since about November, he has been writing roughly a third of ASM for over 2 years (and usually got the broad strokes). So if I wanted I could add up all his issues and death tallies and come up with a similar figure. That's the problem with statistics; you can pretty much use them to make any argument you want. Even Mark Twain caught on that one, and his heyday was the end of the 19th century.

For the record, I wasn't initially thrilled about the death of Marla in the last ASM issue.

As for AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE, Dan Slott was solo writer of that series for 7 issues, and co-wrote it until about issue 20. As with any series with a co-writer, it does become difficult to figure out what writer did what as the division of labor is usually unknown. Since Slott launched the series and created many characters for it, I would imagine he had over 50% of the influence on that book during his collaborations with Gage, and Gage has admitted working off some of Slott's stuff for the start of his solo run. I have admitted many times, however, that I thought Gage's solo run to wrap that series up was stronger. He seemed to juggle the cast better and settle into the tone easier, perhaps because he was eased in by Slott and didn't have to launch in the midst of events like Slott did.

Off the top of my head, most of the major deaths in that series were involving MVP, a character Slott created and then cloned. I usually feel if a creator makes a character and then kills that character off, that's nothing offensive; who else has that "right" but the creator, right? That's why I wasn't up in arms when Robert Kirkman axed off Freedom Ring at the end of his run on MARVEL TEAM-UP (even if he later admitted with hindsight that he shouldn't have). His "prime" self was killed at the end of issue #1 (didn't that JAZZ everyone up!) and 2 out of 3 of his Scarlet Spider clones are dead; every time something major happened that needed a body, one of the trio was served up. Dragon Lord and Crusader were the two other major deaths on Slott's watch there, but DL was a Z-List castoff who maybe got 5 lines of dialogue in about 20 years of history. Crusader's death was more controversial, and gave Delroy Garret a skeleton in his closet. However, Slott & Gage did at least leave a window open for Crusader to return if another writer demanded it. He faded away while using a ring that altered reality; I have seen characters with far more definitive death scenes return. Norman Osborn, anyone?

A few no-hoper, go nowhere villains died on Gage's solo run, besides that aforementioned MVP clone (and obviously, no one cares about clones; the X-Men slaughter Mr. Sinister's expendable Marauders by the dozen without any mercy or second thought, yet tell X-23 that she matters). Gage chose to devote one issue to the death of one such villain, Johnny Guitar, and that still remains one of his best issues of anything. In little more than half an issue he makes you genuinely care for the fate of a Z-List Dazzler villain, for heaven's sakes. The character Gage focused the most on during his solo run was Tigra (and even during his co-written issues, her input increased), and to lessor degrees Stephen Baldwin and Justice; no surprise all three are in ACADEMY.

It isn't a double standard. The rulers of judgment can be spread to anyone really. A:TI ran for 35 issues.

For the record, I have also admitted that I felt Slott's run on MIGHTY AVENGERS was not flawless. I thought he had Pym act weird sometimes for the sake of a shocker scene (asking Loki to join the Avengers? C'mon now), and the battle against the Fantastic Four was forced. It was a better run, overall, than Bendis' that preceded it, IMO.

And honestly, the New X-Men class was fantastic even before the splurging and they were all brand new. I loved them! The Splurging sucked but it was all done in a way that really played the story into something great. And that one random death in Young X-Men was dealt with and turned Rockslide into a very 3-demensional character and my favorite of that generation.

So no, death and destruction isn't needed at all to make great new character that last and New X-Men, I feel, proved that. They were new and built a following for 3 years before the first death... and that was for somewhere around 20 or so characters... not just 6 or so new ones that Academy has. With relaunches and connecting minis they went around 70 issues and are still prominant every month in various ongoings and minis from X-Force to X-Men Legacy to Uncanny X-Men.

So I don't know what you're ranting about New X-Men for.

Same as I am wearing my fanboy heart on my sleeve for ACADEMY a bit, you sometimes do for X-Men stuff. That isn't wrong, but it is what it is.

So, NEW X-MEN had a foundation of 2-3 years. AVENGERS ACADEMY hasn't even had 1 year yet, and it may stagger to survive past it. The comparisons, then, can't be equal. NEW X-MEN sold in an era when it could spend 2-3 years having a mutant teen soap and sell well enough to survive. ACADEMY apparently may not be. Comic sales in 2011 are a world different from 2004, or 2008. The economy as a whole is different. I just care about a good book, though.

If you think that the NEW X-MEN got more editorial support by being featured in many key X-Books sooner...you're right. The only ongoing title the Academy kids have shown up in is THUNDERBOLTS, which at the time sold worse. They will cross over with ASM in May but by then it may be too little, too late to spread word. Yet what happened in the solicits? People whining about ASM being involved. You can't please anyone.

I suppose it would make sense if the kids maybe had a cameo or something in Bendis' Avengers titles or at least Brubaker's. But that's Marvel's editorial decision. I do agree at best Marvel made it harder for themselves. But that is what they do best.

I just showed how you apparently didn't read New X-Men's run to know what you're talking about there... AND I just said in that same post that the reason I'm debating on dropping Amazing Spider-Man is due to the constant deaths... did you miss that point? It doesn't matter if it's new or not.

In the scenerio with Avengers Academy... it's very bleh thus far. I find nothing there to care about these characters with save maybe one or two. Now, if it were in my budget I wouldn't mind waiting for them to grow but it's been 3/4 of a year and I still feel like their story has barely progressed. By this time in Young Avengers we'd established all the characters, built connections between them, established Patriot's origin and drug problems, played out the entire Iron Lad storyline and got Vision out of it, and were in the early process of discovering the secrets behind Hulkling and Wiccan.

In Academy we've learned that they're new, troubled, went on a few small adventures that didn't amount to much, and haven't impacted all that much in or out of the title. Young Avengers have grown stagnant over the years but comparing Academy to them where they were at this point is apples and oranges in my opinion.

Really? NEW X-MEN/ACADEMY X/WHATEVER by your own admission had 2-3 years of material to build things up before it became X-SAW. AA hasn't had even 1 year, and it will struggle to survive 1.5 years.

Yes, those first 9 issues of YOUNG AVENGERS were incredible. Name me anything of relevance that has happened since the end of that volume, back in 2005-2006. Vision Jr. picked a name. Stature and he were Avengers for a spell. Hulkling seemingly met his dad, only it turned out to be a Skrull so the issue as a whole was worthless. Speed turned out to have a girlfriend from juvie. That's it. In FIVE YEARS, that is IT. I honestly know more about Finesse than I do about Eli Bradly. Not his legacy...HIM. Now, the blame is more editorial than anything, but the point stands. And, again, that first volume of YA lasted a year (and an annual). 13 issues of material. AA has nine.

And in CHILDREN'S CRUSADE, Wiccan is the only one who is having any development. Nothing has really happened to the rest. Nothing. They're just there because they have to be.

Let me rephrase that... nothing happened of importance. With a small exception of whatever comes of the Finese plot (which I don't see being much at this point) nothing happened to put us in a different place than where we were at the beginning of last issue. Their story didn't move forward all that much.

In AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE, they sure had a lot of "hooks" to get you to read. Someone died in the first issue. The program was really a dark and cynical method to control superhumans and make them into killers. Anyone decent in that camp had to fight an uphill battle against management. Yet every single issue that was discussed, all I heard was about how dark and depressing and violent and counter-productive it was. Fine. It was launched during those dark post-CW days. It had to be that way.

AVENGERS ACADEMY has a lighter premise and a more rational end goal. Besides, there still are some ongoing subplot hooks; they're just not as WRESTLEMANIA OBVIOUS as a Nazi mad scientist in the basement. It also feels more like a progression of A:TI and the mentors of the book are doing what more non-X heroes should have done for a long time; try to support young heroes, rather than leave them to die until THEY need them, and then call on them for emergencies.

NEW X-MEN had plots in which in one issue, the entire plot was around finding Lockheed in a garden maze. That's at least no different than having the Academy visit the Raft or spar with Arsenal. And hey, stuff happened. Finesse mentions Taskmaster in issue #2 and 7 issues later, they meet. That Thunderbolts crossover had half the team run into Norman Osborn and that is still a subplot into later issues. Speedball apparently will have more to do next issue, according to the letter page.

Different strokes, I guess. I'm more interested in some of these characters than I was for Hardball or Cloud 9 before. Toro in YOUNG ALLIES is close to a rampaging cliche. I look forward to this series every month and I am content with the fact that it doesn't promise the end of the universe in every issue or so on. I do agree some editorial support wouldn't hurt, but that isn't Gage's failing. Maybe I like that ACADEMY seems to have a similar pace as Matt Fraction's THE ORDER did, which was a great book that ended too soon (and was probably his last really great Marvel superhero work).

I think you're going on rants due to being offended at people downing Academy or something because this has little to do with what I was talking about. But putting it planely... to pay attention to the comics that don't do it (and most of us do pay attention to them) they have to be good to capture our attention. For me, Academy isn't anywhere near good enough to keep me. I keep buying it because I like student books in general and I see the potential in it, but I've been very disappointed in it so far and if I have to cut things it's a top runner due to that.

And I obviously pay attention and stick with light hearted comics being that in that review up there I also stated Batgirl as my favorite DC title each month... a VERY lighthearted book. And I could ask you this... why aren't you reading Batgirl? or better yet... Echo? It's light hearted while serious, little doom and gloom, a fantastic read with two people who've been bragging about it for two years now (Phaed and I) and is independant and a low seller. It could use the sales but you aren't giving it a shot. At least I gave Academy at least 9 issues. So is your deal that people aren't supporting the smaller good titles or that people aren't supporting the smaller good titles that YOU want them to support?

This is what makes me curious, now. You and Phaed claim that ACADEMY is too slow for you, that it never has a hook, never feels important, never is relevant. Fine. In your opinion, name me something the book could do better. No vague generality. Name me a specific plot and how it could be executed that is something lacking. I'm just curious. Do you think the kids should be on their own fighting the Sinister Six now? Would you like one of them to blow up?

I like the pace of the series because too often, established villains are made to look like chumps by losing to "kid(s) out of nowhere". The Rhino was literally Gravity's first super-villain, and he thrashed him in half an issue. Every time Shocker is dropped by some nobody in a mask, someone complains and his rep goes down. Well, this series isn't like that. The kids were in deep when the Raft went crazy. They were not a match for Absorbing Man yet (who is often depicted as a brainless moron who, say, Carter, Hill, and Hand can beat easily in an anthology issue). They did show poise and competence against Whirlwind and Reptil was key to beating Mentallo (who even Pym underestimated), but I like that Gage isn't making decent villains look like jobbers just to make the kids look better too quickly. Of course, take this too far and you have a situation in which we make fun of Rikki Barnes for being concerned about Mad-Dog and Professor Power as threats.

(Admittedly, as an example, I wouldn't mind the Ultron subplot coming to the fore and seeing him take on this squad. I also wouldn't mind Justice and Speedball doing more. But, who else would use them if Gage isn't; Mark Millar?)

Korvac is showing up soon. But the lack of editorial support will minimize it for "importance" hounds, even though he is a fairly major Avengers enemy.

We all have small books we enjoy that we want others to read and defend them. They're always subjective and no one's list is better than others in that regard. It's the nature of being a fan. The worst drivel in existence has its fan, and the best stuff imaginable has its haters.

If I'm not reading ECHO or BATGIRL, why aren't you reading DYNAMO 5? That series hardly sold in the Top 300 for their last run. We can be at it all day. The only people who comment on that book are me, Phaed and occasionally when Jay Fearber logs in and posts.

The simple answer is it is difficult to jump into any story in progress. ECHO has been running for some time now, and I can't afford too many new trades to catch up these days. BATGIRL, or any DC title, is harder because I am an outsider of that universe and while I know more about it than a layman, I know very little of the mechanics of the universe or most of the characters. Most of what I know about DC I learned from cartoons, or researching **** I didn't know from cartoons. You think I knew who Shining Knight was before I saw him pop up in "JLU"? I don't mind scimming Wikipedia for answers to comprehend some characters or elements to get a TV show I am watching, as that doesn't require any costs. But when I am plucking in $3, it is easier when I know what I am wading into. That is often the hurdle for DC and why I read what I read. I have been on BOOSTER GOLD since issue 1, and I watched BATMAN BEYOND when it was on TV. But ask me to tell you what happened during the last 2 years of Superman or Batman or Wonder Woman or Green Lantern and my guess is as good as a yorkie's. Marvel is just as confusing to an outsider, but I happen to not be one. You think I am eager to jump onto any Marvel book I haven't been on for a while? When I do it is rare.

About all I know about BATGIRL is she's Stephanie Brown, who used to be Spoiler and Robin, and Cluemaster's daughter (and I have no clue who Cluemaster is rather than that he's some Batman villain of low regard). She was seemingly tortured and killed by Black Mask but somehow she survived. People hate her because she isn't the Cassie Cain version. That's pretty much it. One cover had Clayface on it. Well, which one? There's been like 5 of him. The only origin I know is the version from the cartoon and I have no clue how transferable that is. You can't dive into a mainstream superhero book with that little knowledge and get anything out of it beyond pretty art. I can't enjoy a mainstream book if I don't know my way, I'm just sort of anal retentive like that. And some people are different, they can enter something new and take in the sights and feel their way and be alright; I'm not.

Tron Bonne and I got into this about BATMAN INC. Is is wonderful? Maybe. But all I know is I'm already a trade's worth of issues behind and I don't have the cash to catch up. Nor do I have the cash or interest to buy some of the Bat-books that led up to it. I also have no genuine interest in the concept, which sounds bizarre.

Eh, I liked his Wasp deal best... but then I never liked Janet and seldom read anything with her. Right now, when I think Wasp, I think of Hank Pym.

I still think of Janet. It didn't help that Hank literally IS a WASP - white, blond haired blue eyed rich guy of the elite upper class. He may as well have been named THE MAN or CAPTAIN WHITEY with a name like that. I didn't mind the costume design, but Pym as the Wasp never seemed like something that would stick.

Even if Gage may forget that the only reason Pym became Giant-Man was because he felt he needed some extra muscle with Thor and Iron Man around, so the idea that it was his one identity that wasn't a reaction to something is slightly off. Technically, that identity was Ant-Man, his original. Giant-Man at least was the identity where he started mixing in the full range of his arsenal, which may be the point. The fact that is the identity Pym uses on a cartoon show that will be watched by more people than any the entire comic buying audience combined doesn't hurt.

 

[Themanofbat]

He will be drawing a FEAR ITSELF: SPIDER-MAN mini series. Given that his last major run on any ongoing title before AVENGERS ACADEMY was AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, I suppose you can go home again.

The mini series comes out later in the year and is about 4 issues or so; which is about how many issues McKone can do monthly with enough lead in time before running late.

It's only 3 issues...

 

[JewishHobbit]

I could attribute the same standard to Dan Slott on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. While BIG TIME marked his first run as the SOLO WRITER on that title, he has been writing regularly on ASM since the start of 2008. 2-3 other writers shared that series with him ..... So if I wanted I could add up all his issues and death tallies and come up with a similar figure. That's the problem with statistics; you can pretty much use them to make any argument you want.

I don't consider that compariable because Slott had to go along with the plot ideas of 3 other guys. He didn't have control. Once he got full control he went on a killing splurg, turning Amazing into a bloodbath like you accuse New X-Men. But we can agree to disagree on that if you like.

As for AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE, Dan Slott was solo writer of that series for 7 issues, and co-wrote it until about issue 20. ..... Off the top of my head, most of the major deaths in that series were involving MVP, a character Slott created and then cloned. I usually feel if a creator makes a character and then kills that character off, that's nothing offensive; who else has that "right" but the creator, right? His "prime" self was killed at the end of issue #1 (didn't that JAZZ everyone up!) and 2 out of 3 of his Scarlet Spider clones are dead. Dragon Lord and Crusader were the two other major deaths on Slott's watch there, but DL was a Z-List castoff who maybe got 5 lines of dialogue in about 20 years of history. Crusader's death was more controversial, and gave Delroy Garret a skeleton in his closet. ..... Gage chose to devote one issue to the death of one such villain, Johnny Guitar, and that still remains one of his best issues of anything.

It isn't a double standard. The rulers of judgment can be spread to anyone really. A:TI ran for 35 issues.

My mentioning the double standard deal was because you accused either me or readers in general of liking books only for the doom and gloom, death, and the end of the world type of books and letting good ones slide to the sideline.

Even with the lead in issues here, you listed 6 deaths and off the top of my head I can think of a few more (the speedster girl who changed powers, all but one of the Skrull Kill Crew). So in as few as 30-something issues there were 11 or so deaths (whether they belonged to the writer or not). Does that not count as a bit doom and gloom to you? And yet, you praised that book left and right same as I did. And Note: I'm not specifying Slott himself, he just happens to kill a lot of people and is seldom faulted for it so he came to mind.

In my opinion, that's where the double standard comes in. You supported this but not other books that weren't like that... same as I and everyone else has. You're just as guilty of it as anyone else.

Same as I am wearing my fanboy heart on my sleeve for ACADEMY a bit, you sometimes do for X-Men stuff. That isn't wrong, but it is what it is.

So, NEW X-MEN had a foundation of 2-3 years. AVENGERS ACADEMY hasn't even had 1 year yet, and it may stagger to survive past it. The comparisons, then, can't be equal. NEW X-MEN sold in an era when it could spend 2-3 years having a mutant teen soap and sell well enough to survive. ACADEMY apparently may not be. Comic sales in 2011 are a world different from 2004, or 2008. The economy as a whole is different. I just care about a good book, though.

Fair enough, but my question then is... if it's not comparable... why did YOU bring it up? I was just going off of what you said.

If you think that the NEW X-MEN got more editorial support by being featured in many key X-Books sooner...you're right.[/quote]

Not at first. There wasn't a single appearance of the New X-Men kids for well over their first year in publication. In fact, I think the very first time any of them showed up outside of their own title was Elixer healing Wing in the second arc of Astonishing X-Men. So that'd be about 8 issues into the Academy series making it around 21 issues in. So that's not really a fair point. (actually, I think Jay Guthrie did show up in Uncanny prior to that in maybe a panel or two but nothing big)

I'll agree that the economy does effect things though.

Yes, those first 9 issues of YOUNG AVENGERS were incredible. Name me anything of relevance that has happened since the end of that volume, back in 2005-2006 ..... And, again, that first volume of YA lasted a year (and an annual). 13 issues of material. AA has nine.

And do note, I was comparing where we are now to where they were by issue 9... not after. And I disagree about knowing more about the AA than the YA by that point. I think Stryker and Reptil are potential acceptions to the rule. But beyond that, I was refering more to the material in general... the total package of the comic. The plot was more indepth, more important, better told and more intriguing in my opinion, etc.

But again, I'm okay with agreeing to disagree at this point.

And hey, stuff happened. Finesse mentions Taskmaster in issue #2 and 7 issues later, they meet. That Thunderbolts crossover had half the team run into Norman Osborn and that is still a subplot into later issues. Speedball apparently will have more to do next issue, according to the letter page.

See now I'll agree that stuff happens, Taskmaster and Osborn are examples, but here's the corner that Gage is writing himself into. He's covering plots that you also admit he can't close yet. But sales are so low he may not be able to get around to fill them out so there's a very real chance of them being lingering plot points or rushed later.

If you're fighting to keep a book in print... don't introduce and tease with plot... fulfill them for a more intriguing read to better please the audiance you DO have with hopes of good word of mouth picking up more readers to help you reach that longterm. If sales can sustain, THEN bring in the long running plots.

I mean, the team has maybe 6 or 8 issues to:

1. Build up and complete Speedball's lingering emo story
2. Conclude the issues with Osborn and likely some sort of confrontation with Osborn himself
3. Deal with the Veil/Justice plot
4. Deal with the Taskmaster/Finese plot
5. Deal with the Reptil leadership/parents issues
6. Conclude the Quicksilver/Finese blackmail storyline
7. Actually come up with full origins for half the team
8. Likely deal with the Jacosta/Ultron storyline
9. Likely deal with the Infinite Mansion/Janet plot

And there's likely more that I'm not thinking about, and instead of hitting some of these now while he knows he has time, he revisits the Tigra/Hood plot for 2 whole issues despite it being resolved and unnecessary by the end of Initiative. That's one thing specifically that gotten on my nerves with the book.

This is what makes me curious, now. You and Phaed claim that ACADEMY is too slow for you, that it never has a hook, never feels important, never is relevant. Fine. In your opinion, name me something the book could do better. No vague generality. Name me a specific plot and how it could be executed that is something lacking. I'm just curious. Do you think the kids should be on their own fighting the Sinister Six now? Would you like one of them to blow up?

For fun, I'll handle this one in a separate post after this one

I like the pace of the series because too often, established villains are made to look like chumps by losing to "kid(s) out of nowhere".

This I agree with

We all have small books we enjoy that we want others to read and defend them. They're always subjective and no one's list is better than others in that regard. It's the nature of being a fan. The worst drivel in existence has its fan, and the best stuff imaginable has its haters.

Yes, I agree. That's why I brought up the double standard issue because you fall into this category just the same as everyone else being that "good" is subjective. You're supporting books I think aren't very good and I support books that you don't think are very good. I'm not downing your books (well, I wasn't until it became center of the debate) as much as just pointing out the hipocrisy.

If I'm not reading ECHO or BATGIRL, why aren't you reading DYNAMO 5?

I wasn't the one criticizing someone else for not supporting certain books. My examples was just to show that you were doing the same thing you were blaming others for.

Frankly, I don't care. While I like books, a canceled book is $3-$4 saved

The simple answer is it is difficult to jump into any story in progress.

BATGIRL, or any DC title, is harder because I am an outsider of that universe and while I know more about it than a layman, I know very little of the mechanics of the universe or most of the characters.

About all I know about BATGIRL is she's Stephanie Brown, who used to be Spoiler and Robin, and Cluemaster's daughter (and I have no clue who Cluemaster is rather than that he's some Batman villain of low regard). She was seemingly tortured and killed by Black Mask but somehow she survived. People hate her because she isn't the Cassie Cain version. That's pretty much it. One cover had Clayface on it. Well, which one? There's been like 5 of him. The only origin I know is the version from the cartoon and I have no clue how transferable that is. You can't dive into a mainstream superhero book with that little knowledge and get anything out of it beyond pretty art.

Congratulations... you know about 95% more about Batgirl than I did when I started and I think it's probably one of the easiest books I've ever jumped into. All I knew when I picked up the 8th issue of Batgirl was that she was new to the cape... and she was batgirl. Once I read that issue I recognized the name 'Spoiler' from some old Robin comics though I knew nothing about the character or her history (not even that she was a girl). I've never had to wiki the book and I've had no problem enjoying the title. Most issues are stand alone or short arcs and for the most part they haven't been influenced by any outside books. There was an issue that crossed over with Red Robin for about 3 issues and there was the Road Home oneshot that dealt with Bruce's return, but those explained things clearly enough. And not knowing the villains or guest stars doesn't hurt it at all.

You are more than equipped to pick up this book starting at any point and enjoy it. The past two issues were stand alone (one guest stared the new Robin, one was a Valentine's Day issue with some dude I've never heard of) and both were great.

Tron Bonne and I got into this about BATMAN INC. Is is wonderful? Maybe. But all I know is I'm already a trade's worth of issues behind and I don't have the cash to catch up. Nor do I have the cash or interest to buy some of the Bat-books that led up to it. I also have no genuine interest in the concept, which sounds bizarre.

Actually, you don't need the build up, as there was very little of it save for two pages at the end of Morrison's Batman & Robin. And there's only been 2 issues so far, so you aren't far behind at all

But if you have no interest in the concept, that is an understanding reason for not buying it. The rest are unnecessary excuses.

 

[Dread]

I don't consider that compariable because Slott had to go along with the plot ideas of 3 other guys. He didn't have control. Once he got full control he went on a killing splurg, turning Amazing into a bloodbath like you accuse New X-Men. But we can agree to disagree on that if you like.

Very well. As I stated, while I didn't mind too much the death of Kingsley, I am still undecided on Marla's death. It isn't something I'd have advocated but we'll see where Slott takes it in his next issue or so. I suppose the trade off for "the old Parker luck", in getting Peter out of his endless cycles of a crappy job and soap opera romance being the crux of his subplots, are higher stakes. After finally dusting Marla off from behind the panels, it does seem like a waste to kill her. We'll see how it changes J.J., though.

My mentioning the double standard deal was because you accused either me or readers in general of liking books only for the doom and gloom, death, and the end of the world type of books and letting good ones slide to the sideline.

Even with the lead in issues here, you listed 6 deaths and off the top of my head I can think of a few more (the speedster girl who changed powers, all but one of the Skrull Kill Crew). So in as few as 30-something issues there were 11 or so deaths (whether they belonged to the writer or not). Does that not count as a bit doom and gloom to you? And yet, you praised that book left and right same as I did. And Note: I'm not specifying Slott himself, he just happens to kill a lot of people and is seldom faulted for it so he came to mind.

In my opinion, that's where the double standard comes in. You supported this but not other books that weren't like that... same as I and everyone else has. You're just as guilty of it as anyone else.

C'mon, the Skrull Kill Krew only showed up a few times since that early Morrison series. There was no other time to go out with a bang than Secret Invasion.

Admittedly, AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE started out as a different beast. By format, it HAD to be part of every crossover Marvel was doing, and it itself was launched during The Initiative banner. Half of Slott's issues were dealing with that, World War Hulk, or Secret Invasion tie-in's. Gage took over during the Dark Reign one and ended with SIEGE. This helped boost the book's sales for quite some time. Even SIEGE spiked sales by the end, likely enough that Gage got another go but Marvel risked a Taskmaster mini series, as he starred in a few issues.

AVENGERS ACADEMY may have launched out of HEROIC AGE but it isn't as tied into a slate of major crossovers. And to be honest, while I liked A:TI too, there were times when the grim tone and the deaths were sometimes much. I think Gage had a better handle on it than Slott did, and I thought it ended at a peak. I like the different tone of ACADEMY, and that its characters have room to breath.

Not at first. There wasn't a single appearance of the New X-Men kids for well over their first year in publication. In fact, I think the very first time any of them showed up outside of their own title was Elixer healing Wing in the second arc of Astonishing X-Men. So that'd be about 8 issues into the Academy series making it around 21 issues in. So that's not really a fair point. (actually, I think Jay Guthrie did show up in Uncanny prior to that in maybe a panel or two but nothing big)

I'll agree that the economy does effect things though.

Jay Guthrie/Icarus did show up before, during some Austin issues. Dust also appeared elsewhere too.

And do note, I was comparing where we are now to where they were by issue 9... not after. And I disagree about knowing more about the AA than the YA by that point. I think Stryker and Reptil are potential acceptions to the rule. But beyond that, I was refering more to the material in general... the total package of the comic. The plot was more indepth, more important, better told and more intriguing in my opinion, etc.

But again, I'm okay with agreeing to disagree at this point.

So I guess AVENGERS ACADEMY should have opened with Kang threatening to destroy the time line. Or anything. Like if Pym really wanted to organize a team of kids to fight Ultron or something.

At the very least, AA has avoided the stereotype of making their team's only non-Caucasian male character into a drug user.

See now I'll agree that stuff happens, Taskmaster and Osborn are examples, but here's the corner that Gage is writing himself into. He's covering plots that you also admit he can't close yet. But sales are so low he may not be able to get around to fill them out so there's a very real chance of them being lingering plot points or rushed later.

If you're fighting to keep a book in print... don't introduce and tease with plot... fulfill them for a more intriguing read to better please the audiance you DO have with hopes of good word of mouth picking up more readers to help you reach that longterm. If sales can sustain, THEN bring in the long running plots.

I mean, the team has maybe 6 or 8 issues to:

1. Build up and complete Speedball's lingering emo story
2. Conclude the issues with Osborn and likely some sort of confrontation with Osborn himself
3. Deal with the Veil/Justice plot
4. Deal with the Taskmaster/Finese plot
5. Deal with the Reptil leadership/parents issues
6. Conclude the Quicksilver/Finese blackmail storyline
7. Actually come up with full origins for half the team
8. Likely deal with the Jacosta/Ultron storyline
9. Likely deal with the Infinite Mansion/Janet plot

And there's likely more that I'm not thinking about, and instead of hitting some of these now while he knows he has time, he revisits the Tigra/Hood plot for 2 whole issues despite it being resolved and unnecessary by the end of Initiative. That's one thing specifically that gotten on my nerves with the book.

It is a balance at either end of the spectrum. Wrap up and resolve all your plot threads quickly, and you're left treading water until better ideas come. Take too long, and the book gets canceled. Of course, how well the pacing works is subjective. I usually am pleased with things. Most issues have an action sequence. Something new is learned or develops around at least one character if not several. I don't feel time is wasted, nor do I feel the Avengers are being stupid and throwing kids at threats they have no business fighting, nor are they just telling them to quit and go home. Since Osborn messed with the kids the most, it is imperative that they do a good job. The only error they made was lying to the kids at the outset, which has backfired. On the other hand, would revealing the true motivation at the outset really have helped? Reptil at least doesn't think so.

One problem that Gage & AA have, and it is editorial, is that because it is the D-List Avengers book and Gage does not have the rep of a Bendis, or a Brubaker, or a Milar or even a Slott, it is that Marvel will not "waste" an important character at AA. This means that the Hood CAN NOT be taken out of commission there. Osborn CAN NOT be effected in any major way, either. The former is a major problem because Bendis was the one who had Hood mess with Tigra in the first place, not Gage. Slott & Gage just picked up the ball. The Hood can only lose in Bendis written Avengers titles. He cannot, say, be apprehended by Tigra in an issue of A:TI or AA. Gage isn't important enough. That's a damn shame in terms of the narrative, but it is what it is. Gage has found ways around it that have worked so far. Osborn is a trickier wicket. Obviously, the kids can't kill him. But if a few decide to join him, would ANY other major book capitalize on that? No. Now, this isn't fair obviously. Ideally, characters both major and minor could be effected by writers who are dedicated to them and if Marvel is serious when they claim none of their books are "higher priority" than others and that no talent is above others, than "important" stuff WOULD happen to BIG characters in ANY book. If I recall, that strategy worked well for DC in the stuff between IDENTITY CRISIS and INFINITE CRISIS. You never knew when the next cog could come.

If a character was going to, say, tear off Osborn's head in a cell, it would not would be Mettle or Hazmat in an issue of AA. It would be a character in AVENGERS or NEW AVENGERS. I mean, THUNDERBOLTS was the only ongoing title that acted like these characters existed, and another won't until May, when the series is shipping its 13th and 14th issues.

To be honest, I thought the Veil/Justice subplot was resolved when she walked in on him and Ultra-Girl, stomped off teary eyed and talked to Striker. This issue, though, made it obvious that it isn't. It did add a new angle that now Justice is aware of it and was unaware, and now feels awkward about it. The Taskmaster/Finesse subplot is dealt with for now. They met and fought and Taskmaster at least implied it is possible they are blood (and offered advise based on that assumption), but he isn't about to submit his DNA for a paternity test and Finesse isn't about to arrest him to get it. There isn't much else for it to go right now.

I do imagine the Infinite Mansion/Janet subplot is due up, due to solicitations and preview art. I am not sure where Jocasta/Ultron is going.

The characters' origins have all been told aside for a few details. Veil and Mettle seem to be obvious mutants, just Gage cannot call them that because of M-Day, so they are mutants in all but name. Hazmat was exposed to Roxxon chemicals as a baby and that is why she is what she is. Finesse was born that way, and may possibly be Taskmaster's daughter. Striker isn't a mutant but his mother hasn't revealed who his father is - as YOUNG ALLIES proved, Electro is too young to be any teenager's father. Reptil's background was fleshed a bit in his A:TI introductory mini. He's a guy who is empowered by a magical dinosaur amulet and his parents are MIA and presumed dead. I don't know of much else that needs to be told right now.

Speedball's story is hopefully coming up between the next issue and the FEAR ITSELF side mini.

Yes, I agree. That's why I brought up the double standard issue because you fall into this category just the same as everyone else being that "good" is subjective. You're supporting books I think aren't very good and I support books that you don't think are very good. I'm not downing your books (well, I wasn't until it became center of the debate) as much as just pointing out the hipocrisy.

Hypocrisy. I'm not heavy enough for it to be Hippocrisy.

Just teasing.

Congratulations... you know about 95% more about Batgirl than I did when I started and I think it's probably one of the easiest books I've ever jumped into. All I knew when I picked up the 8th issue of Batgirl was that she was new to the cape... and she was batgirl. Once I read that issue I recognized the name 'Spoiler' from some old Robin comics though I knew nothing about the character or her history (not even that she was a girl). I've never had to wiki the book and I've had no problem enjoying the title. Most issues are stand alone or short arcs and for the most part they haven't been influenced by any outside books. There was an issue that crossed over with Red Robin for about 3 issues and there was the Road Home oneshot that dealt with Bruce's return, but those explained things clearly enough. And not knowing the villains or guest stars doesn't hurt it at all.

You are more than equipped to pick up this book starting at any point and enjoy it. The past two issues were stand alone (one guest stared the new Robin, one was a Valentine's Day issue with some dude I've never heard of) and both were great.

I'm not eager to start too many more ongoing series at this time, especially in unfamiliar universes. Hell, I'm still 50/50 on VENOM, because I don't know the writer well.

Actually, you don't need the build up, as there was very little of it save for two pages at the end of Morrison's Batman & Robin. And there's only been 2 issues so far, so you aren't far behind at all

But if you have no interest in the concept, that is an understanding reason for not buying it. The rest are unnecessary excuses.

Right, which is where Tron and I ended up. I just don't care about McBatman. I only care enough to make fun of it. I don't care for diluting a brand, much like has been done with the Hulks or Green Lanterns or Wolverine spawn. I think it just makes characters more interchangeable. Do we need a Justice League of Batmen? Do we need 5 Hulks? I digress.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Heh... Dread you asked for it... here's what I got so far:

This is what makes me curious, now. You and Phaed claim that ACADEMY is too slow for you, that it never has a hook, never feels important, never is relevant. Fine. In your opinion, name me something the book could do better. No vague generality. Name me a specific plot and how it could be executed that is something lacking. I'm just curious. Do you think the kids should be on their own fighting the Sinister Six now? Would you like one of them to blow up?

No need for death or doom and gloom... just more fulfilling plot. I’m going to start from the same springboard issue 1 with minor changes and as you’ll see, he plots change much of what comes later.

Issue 1:

The Students - Honestly, I wouldn't change much about this issue. I thought it was a great introduction to the students. I feel that the ending took away from the book, however. Not the reveal that they're potential future Red Skulls, as much as the one line that Finesse says about the teachers being scared of them, "They should be." This is misleading and has nothing to do with how they've acted the rest of the issue (or even since). It also gives a vibe similar to the original Thunderbolts comics where the team was secret villains. When I finished this issue I felt like I'd already read this story (though not exact) and I was already kinda bored with it.

The Change - I'd have made subtle changes to the ending. Have the more noble students discover this... specifically Reptil and Veil. They would see the other students who have attitudes or conceit, particularly Stryker, Hazmat, and Finese, and they'll suddenly grow cautious of their teammates (I'd think Mettle would be the gray area character). Build up that distrust in the team and you have a future plot of what happens when the more unbalanced team members DO find out about this.

Also, drop the Veil/Justice crush.

The Staff - It's also a good introduction issue for the staff. I like that Pym, Quicksilver, and Justice are teachers as they draw different reading crowds (old New Warriors, newer Avengers, older Avengers, older X-Factor, Initiative). I like that Speedball was also chosen because he's gone down a dark road and is on his way back (something the troubled students can relate to) but sadly, this issue is about as much as we see him for a while. I don't really feel that Tigra adds much to this cast and yet she gets the most emphesis. Jacosta follows Pym as tech support and her story with Ultron could easily be a great arc to build to for the title.

The Change - Drop Tigra. She brings no fans to the book and her only recent interesting plots (The Hood and her skrull pregnancy) were wrapped up in Initiative. With how difficult it is to get a new book to fly you need to do more to bring in readers, not personal faves with near-nonexistent fanbases taking up panel space. I'd like to replace her with Iron Fist but Bendis has a hold on him and I hate multiple teams for a character. Plus, without Tigra I feel the team needs a female teacher for the female students to relate to. The sad thing is, most female Avengers are taken elsewhere or dead, so you have to go with someone who can drive more plot.

My replacement... Firestar. She has the experience, she's faced life issues with cancer and such, she's a former Avenger, and she has history with Justice. I also like her here because that gives us one founding Avenger (Pym), 2 later addition Avengers (Quicksilver and Jacosta), and 2 newer Avengers (Justice and Firestar), and 1 New Warriors who is finally stepping it up into the big leagues (Speedball).

Issue 2:

The Finesse Centric issue. In this issue we learn that she MIGHT be Taskmaster’s daughter and she later blackmails Quicksilver into teaching her the things Magneto taught him in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. In addition to this there’s the beginnings of the Finesse/Reptil hook up plot that barely goes anywhere later, and there’s a danger room type of scene with random Avenger villains including Ultron where the students discuss being potential threats.

The Change

1) The danger room sequence should be against Ultron and Taskmaster (maybe others but these two keyed). Finesse has issues with Taskmaster and someone else steps in to save her, which she isn’t appreciative of. Stryker, Hazmat, and/or Mettle take out Ultron in an impressive display. Instead of all of them discussing the teachers’ fear of them, only Veil and Reptil do it here while watching this. Ultron’s defeat worries them and they begin suspecting Finesse due to her slip up with Taskmaster. Hint to the reader that Ultron is actually seeing through the hologram somehow, studying the students.

2) Drop the Finesse/Reptil hook up story. He distrusts her, but DOES trust Veil. Begin a genuine love story there instead.

3) Taskmaster is revealed 100% to be Finesse’s father. This closes a later potential dangling plot thread and makes Reptil and Veil distrust her all the more, being the daughter of a real super villain.

4) Bringing in Firestar I’d start minor plots with her and Justice’s broken engagement and Justice’s moving on to Ultra Girl. It’d be minor, little mentions, but begin that here.


Issue 3-4:

Scared Straight Parts 1 & 2. The students train a little with Iron Fist and Valkyrie (kinda… she tries to teach them how to drink while giving Asgardian sex ed). We learn Mettle and Hazmat’s back story with Osborn. We learn that Speedball is still cutting. The teachers take the students to the Raft to speak with the Thunderbolts for the scared straight program. Hazmat convinces Veil and Mettle to work with her to shorten out the power to the prison and kill Osborn. He says he can “fix” them still and they leave him be. The kids fight a bunch of villains due to the break out and the teachers save them. Veil feels bad for what was done, Hazmat doesn’t, and Mettle isn’t sure.

The Change – Drop the crossover. I like the idea of Scared Straight and it was one of the better stories from the book but altering it for what I’ve altered so far here’s what I’d do:

1) Make the story only 1 issue instead of 2. Remove the Valkyrie scene and have Iron Fist training be the only training scene, but quicker, maybe just the aftermath of it to save space.

2) See Hazmat’s back story, not Mettle’s, since she is pressing the attack on Osborn.

3) Hazmat convinces Mettle, Veil, AND Stryker to kill Osborn but Veil is only along to keep track of the others and see what they’re capable of. Reptil and Finesse end up getting stranded with the teachers causing worry between Reptil and Veil, enhancing their love story. They keep the prison at bay with the Thunderbolts (only guest staring, not crossing over with). Make them stop bigger named or more relevant villains than the no names used in Academy, such as Parker Robbins and/or Absorbing Man . The 4 students meet up with Osborn but it plays out the same with the 3 students. Stryker, however, isn’t as needy of anything and tries to kill Osborn but fails when Mettle and Veil stop him. Hazmat gets the power back up and running and Veil is left still not trusting Stryker or Hazmat, but starting to wonder about Mettle. Stryker claims he was just “scaring Osborn straight” and wouldn’t have killed him, though this is questionable.

Issue 5 (now issue 4):

This would be the Stryker issue. We learn the full background on Stryker. He and his mother, Princess Python I think she’s called, play the Avengers and get the team known in the media so now they’re known heroes. We’re getting all this in backstory as Stryker tells a “powered down” Jacosta unit about everything. We eventually see Ultron listening through her. Also, Veil walks in on Justice and Ultra Girl making out and is hurt by it. She comes to Stryker and they talk about it, showing a good side of Stryker. Also, there’s a Captain America training scene.

The Change: Barely anything with Stryker. I think it was done superbly from his back story to their going public to Ultron listening in. Leave all that the same though maybe try to trim a page or two. Now, I’d trim down the Captain America scene from 4 pages to 3 maybe. It’s a good springboard for the Stryker story but could be shorter. Also, I’ve cut the Veil/Justice plot from my idea so that frees up another page and thus she wouldn’t head to Stryker, freeing up another page. So that saves about 4 or 5 pages.

I’d fill those pages with a quick Mettle back story, an official hook up of Reptil and Veil, and Mettle’s seeing this and growing bitter over not being able to hook up with people because of his looks. We learn he’s developed a crush on Veil and is growing jealous of Reptil and Hazmat will begin to become jealous of Veil. This is teen angst becoming amplified due to the split in the students due to what Veil and Reptil know. Also, despite the original comic, I like the idea of Finesse being impressed with Stryker and THEY hook up.

Issue 6 (formerly issue 5):

This is the Reptil issue. We see Reptil’s origin and what Osborn did to him. He’s elected class leader and goes around trying to do a good job at this and learns about secrets throughout his fellow students and/or puts his foot in his mouth. He becomes 100% dinosaur to stop a villain Pym underestimates and loses control. He later talks with Jessica Jones about his being taken advantage of by Osborn and things he’s repressed and he breaks down and has a breakthrough. He refuses to tell anyone about what he’s learned about the team though. Also, his and Finesse’s fling ends.

The change

1) Scrap the class leader thing. It’s fun but not relevant to the plot really. This issue will still cover his origin and holding things in due to Osborn and his history. He’d still go all dinosaur to defeat a villain who controls minds but why waste that on Mentallo, a nobody. I’d fill that roll with a bigger known villain with more draw like Mysterio. I might include some of Reptil’s going around learning about his fellow students but not as much. Mostly, show jealousy issues with Mettle and his affection for Veil.

2) Justice and Tigra are there during the fight with Mentallo. Take out Tigra (as she isn’t in the book) and put in Firestar. Deal a little with their problems setting up for a future issue.

3) There will definitely be that breakthrough with Jessica Jones. That was great. However, instead of holding what he knows about his team… he will open up to her about knowing the teachers fear them and think of them as potential future Red Skulls. End it there.


THE BENEFITS SO FAR:

Now, this ends the student issues and the origins are set up for what we know of now. There’s not a lot of difference in the core stories but we have plots beginning. There’re higher profile villains such as Mysterio, Parker Robbins, and the Absorbing Man adding to Norman Osborn and classic Avenger villains Whirlwind and Ultron. And it still has guest star and cameos from Steve Rogers, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and other Thunderbolts. That’s pretty decent for only 5 issues.

The Biggest addition though is that there is a building strife between the students due to changing the ending of issue 1. We have Reptil and Veil on one side as the more noble couple, we have Stryker and Hazmat on the other side as the darker characters, and we have Mettle and Finesse in the middle as the grey area characters but growing more unbalanced as the plot moves forward with Mettle’s jealousies and Finesse’s attraction to Stryker. That keeps intrigue wondering how it’s going to play out.

The second biggest change is playing up the Ultron plot more, making it feel more imminent. It gives the feeling that THAT is what it’s building to.


Next couple of issues coming soon.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Issue 7 (now issue 6):

This is the Pym turning into Giant Man issue. It starts with Pym and Tigra talking about Pym’s old days, Janet, Tigra’s child, and his kinda but kinda not being the father. It culminates with Pym being ready to bring Janet back to life. Meanwhile, the students and other teachers are moving Absorbing Man, who escapes and a fight breaks out. Pym shows up now as Giant Man and defeats Absorbing Man. In the end we learn that Pym actually isn’t ready to save Janet but that he was jumping the gun, but he vows to not give up and Veil sneaks in and sees what he’s doing.

The Change – Cut the Tigra’s kid stuff obviously because she’s not here and have Pym talking over his past with Speedball instead. They share stories about how they’ve failed, hurt other people, had identity issues, and they learn that they’re both on the upward swing. They’re both feeling better through it though Pym’s further along than Robbie.

I’ll keep the Absorbing Man plot and have it branch a bit from the Scared Strait cameo when the staff, Finesse, and Reptil took him down. He gets out and is defeated by the new Giant Man. That all stays the same… save that Giant Man doesn’t have dang antennas! Robbie also shows up and gets some licks in. Before this happens though I want Justice, Firestar, and Quicksilver getting good face time in the battle with the kids in the background.

In the end I’ll have Pym talking about how he’s almost ready to bring her back. His life is back in order and he’s going to save her. Jacosta is present and we see Ultron watching through her eyes. Earlier in the book I’d have Jessica Jones come to Firestar and ask to speak with her about Reptil. End it with Firestar alone now coming to Justice saying they have to talk (regarding what she’s now learned).

All this helps in playing up Robbie now, gets Pym where he needed to be, brings in Janet, pushes the Ultron plot, and really just puts focus on the teachers in general.


Issue 8 (now 7):

This issue is the one with Tigra telling the kids about her beating, their going after him to teach him a lesson, her getting ticked about it, and 3 of the kids getting expelled.

The Change

Plain and Simple… drop ALL of it! No Tigra, no need for this plot.


Now, I’m going to add in original issues so I’m starting issues as it would be in my continuity:

Issue 7:

The second issue of the 3 part teachers arc deals with Justice and Firestar. Here are the plot points:

1) Firestar talks with Justice about the teachers’ opinions of the students and learns that it’s true. As it turns out Firestar was never filled in and neither was Robbie because of Robbie’s mental issues and Firestar’s just coming back into the field. This reaches a bit of a blow up about their relationship and we get a recap of their past. Ultimately it will end with them finding respect despite their history and they promise to not keep secrets anymore.

2) Simoulaneous to all that we have Reptil thinking over what he told Jessica Jones and Firestar and he goes to tell Veil. He finds her with Mettle and Mettle gets jealous that he’s taking her away from his time and he starts a fight with Reptil. They fight until Veil comes between them. In the end Mettle will leave to blow off some steam.

3) Justice and Firestar come to Reptil and Veil and they discuss how dangerous the students are. There is mutual respect there now and Reptil and Veil are relieved to have people on their side now. They agree to keep an eye out on the others and try to help keep them from falling too far. Reptil can’t help but to wonder if he’s ruined that with Mettle now, though.

4) Mettle is walking around ticked off and we get in his thoughts that he’s sick of this place and these people. He is attacked vaguely by Jacosta and he’s’ confused until he realizes that someone is speaking through her. Ultron takes advantage of Mettle’s temperament and youth and recruits him as an ally. Mettle is all too eager thinking this is how he can get back at Reptil and Veil.


Issue 8:

Part 3 of the teacher storyline focuses on Speedball again and Quicksilver. The Quicksilver plot is essentially the Finesse plot from issue 9.

1) Understanding what it’s like to have a villainous father, Quicksilver offers to help Finesse find Taskmaster. He manages to do so leading her to him and the fight breaks out like in Avengers Academy issue 9. However, in this ending Quicksilver ends up being present and when Taskmaster and Finesse are having their heart to heart he chimes in talking about what it’s like to have a criminal father and where it leads, talking about his fall during House of M. He asks Taskmaster to not drive Finesse down that same path. Taskmaster will talk about his shortcomings and “villainous ways” and Quicksilver will discuss how he overcame his. Taskmaster really isn’t that bad of a guy but still, he doesn’t stick around. He tells Finesse not to follow his path but that if she needs him he’ll be there. He just needs to work on some things first, to really think this over. This gives Finesse some hope and she gains respect for Quicksilver.

2) Speedball and Stryker are together, driving fast and whatever the heck they’d do. I’ not picky. Stryker is living the lifestyle he wants and ultimately they find a villain like Hydro-Man or something and fight him. Speedball tries to teach Stryker to be more careful and less carefree but Stryker isn’t listening. He comes close to Blasting Hydro-Man with electricity right in front of a school or bus and Speedball freaks out and manages to stop the electrocution death (intensified by water) of the children involved and gives Stryker what for about his carelessness. Stryker doesn’t let it sink in but we get into Robbie’s head as he realizes he’s saved kids from a disaster and when he gets back to the infinite mansion he holds the Penance mask he’s been using to cut himself with and finally destroys it and vows to save Stryker before he follows the same path he had.

Issue 9 (bringing us up to date):

This issue would likely begin a 4 part story arc leading to the 1 year issue 12 and it’s all been building to this (oh my GOD!!! I said that!).

1) Mettle is working with Ultron now and goes to Pym. During an unexpected conflict Mettle with Jacosta’s help traps Pym in some sort of particle space or something and follows Ultron’s orders through Jacosta and screws with what was originally intended to free the Wasp. He instead plans on freeing Ultron.

2) Hazmat walks In on Mettle and Jacosta messing with Pym’s machines. She questions him and he explains what he’s doing. She is resistant to this at first but she is interested in Mettle (as the only man she can touch) and he swoons her to his side explaining that without Pym and the Academy they’d be free to get revenge on Osborn and force him to fix them. Also, he believes that Ultron is powerful enough he might be able to help them even without Osborn once he's freed and returned to full power. Hazmat joins Mettle, Ultron, and the corrupted Jacosta units of the Infinite Mansion.

3) There is some sort of training exercise going on with the rest of the students and teachers when everything goes screwy. They have to fight for their lives against a failing Avengers Mansion. Meanwhile, Quicksilver darts across the building and finds Finesse trapped. He frees her and they’re attacked by several Jacosta units. He attempts to flee with Finesse in arm but there are tons of Jacostas and he can’t get away from them for how they line the hallways. He is eventually wounded and rendered unconsious and Finesse is left standing over him against the Jacosta units.

4) Stryker, Reptil, and Veil are separated from Speedball, Justice, and Firestar. The teachers fight to make their way to Pym and find his lab empty and nearly destroyed. They find the Jacosta unit who helped Mettle and it starts freaking out and turns into Ultron, freed and ready to kill him some New Warriors.

5) Stryker, Reptil, and Veil are wondering in some broken down level when they are found by Mettle and Hazmat. They reveal how the teachers see them and Stryker is appauled, seeming on their side of the argument. Mettle then reveals that he’s learned through Ultron that Reptil and Veil kept this secret and it cliffhangers on a 3 vs 2 scenerio just about ready to start.


And if I were to write Avengers Academy, that’s where we’d be at this moment. The next three issues would show Stryker turn on Mettle and Hazmat to save Reptil and Veil. Finesse would be very nearly beaten to death but would work the door system to find Taskmaster again, who would join the fight, defending Quicksilver and his daughter long enough for Quicksilver to heal and help them all escape. Justice, Firestar, and Speedball would fight with Ultron until eventually everyone gets back together for a final battle against Ultron, Mettle, Hazmat, and the corrupted Jacostas.

In the end the real Jacosta with human limbs that was trapped with Ultron is freed and helps save people. Pym is freed and he uses Jacosta to finally return Janet to life. Jacosta is gone and with her the rest of the corrupted Jacostas are destroyed and vacant. Wasp and Pym joins the fight and alongside Justice, Firestar, Speedball, and Quicksilver they take out Ultron. Taskmaster is wounded defending his daughter from Hazmat but Finesse takes her out. Reptil and Veil fight and take out Mettle. Stryker nearly goes on overload due to all this with hopes of stopping the threats but Speedball talks him into not frying everyone just to get to Ultron or something along those lines.

In the end Ultron and Jacosta would be gone. Janet would be back. Within a few issues Janet and Taskmaster join the staff. Mettle and Hazmat are sent away but not without the hopes of being reformed. Reptil, Veil, Stryker, and Finesse remain having overcome their issues and ready for tomorrow. And likely, the future would bring in some more students to replace Hazmat and Mettle.


All that by issue 12… that’s how I’d improve Avengers Academy

 

[JewishHobbit]

A Special thanks to Dread for whining about my whining of Avengers Academy and challening me to try and make it better. I had a freakin' blast coming up with this plot

 

[Watchman]

So my friend let me borrow his Uncanny X-Force and Aaron's Wolverine issues. I'm speechless. I never thought this would happen...these are some of my favorite books right. Especially, X-Force which I thought it was going to be a mindless action fest turns out to be more of a thematic sequel to Morrison's X-run. Sure I don't care for Psylocke or Angel but Remender is delivering a great, disturbing sci-fi epic.

I'm not surprise that Aaron has such a great handle on Wolverine. These are characters that he excels at and all my past judgments on prejudices toward the character disappear under his pen....I'm scared

 

[JewishHobbit]

Uncanny X-Force has been awesome. Remender's giving us one of the best X-Books in years.

 

[Tron Bonne]

So my friend let me borrow his Uncanny X-Force and Aaron's Wolverine issues. I'm speechless. I never thought this would happen...these are some of my favorite books right. Especially, X-Force which I thought it was going to be a mindless action fest turns out to be more of a thematic sequel to Morrison's X-run. Sure I don't care for Psylocke or Angel but Remender is delivering a great, disturbing sci-fi epic.

I'm not surprise that Aaron has such a great handle on Wolverine. These are characters that he excels at and all my past judgments on prejudices toward the character disappear under his pen....I'm scared

Look, I do like Remender and Aaron a lot, but you have to fight this, Watchman, fight son

 

[JewishHobbit]

Do not listen to the temptress witch (or warlord... I don't remember how that conversation ended ).

Do not lump good books with bad X-Men overviews... support!

 

[Tron Bonne]

Resist

 

[JewishHobbit]

Submit!

 

[Watchman]

Look, I do like Remender and Aaron a lot, but you have to fight this, Watchman, fight son

It is too late for me, Tron...it was an entire issue devoted to Fantomex...Fantomex! I can't get enough of that dashing faux-French thief. I see this as an unusual hiccup like X-Statix or New X-Men.

 

[Tron Bonne]

It is too late for me, Tron...it was an entire issue devoted to Fantomex...Fantomex! I can't get enough of that dashing faux-French thief. I see this as an unusual hiccup like X-Statix or New X-Men.

Nah, I mean, if it's that good I understand the deceit. Milligan's X-Force/X-Staix was fairly bawlin'. Need to get re-reading those in that Omnibus I bought, actually.

 

[Watchman]

Resist

Spoiler

 

[Tron Bonne]

D'aww

 

[Watchman]

Don't worry I'll be off X-Force once Fantomex is offed. I feel like he's the most expendable one on the team.

And then I'll be crying in the shower like Tobias Funke again.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I don't think he will be. He's easily turning into the most interesting character in the book. Issue 5 just came out and he's kinda the point man of this new arc it seems, though everyone else are equally as important in it.

 

[runawayboulder]

I don't think he's the most expendable at all. Remender seems to love Fantomex more than the rest if anything. His scenes with Deadpool were awesome.

Uncanny X-Force, Avengers Academy and ASM are my 3 top books right now. Then T-Bolts and Punisher MAX (now that it's coming back out again).

 

[Dread]

A Special thanks to Dread for whining about my whining of Avengers Academy and challening me to try and make it better. I had a freakin' blast coming up with this plot

Yes, I could see you put a lot of thought into it. It reminds me of some of my long, epic rants about what "WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN" could have done better over in other topics circa 2009-2010 or so.

All that by issue 12… that’s how I’d improve Avengers Academy

I do thank you for taking the time and energy to provide what I was curious about - concrete examples of stuff you thought ACADEMY could have done better. I honestly didn't expect full summaries of both the official versions of the first 9 issues versus yours, and if anything it shows that you at least care about the comic enough to pour that much effort into it.

I figured I'd comment, but for the sake of space I wasn't going to break up your "scripts" into quote boxes.

We both seem to agree that the Jocasta/Ultron subplot isn't a bad one to exploit, and that seeing more of Justice and Speedball wouldn't have hurt.

I do have to say I disagree with you about Tigra, but that's naturally a clash of our own personal fan opinions. Putting Firestar in her place does create easy drama with Justice, but you have to remember that AVENGERS ACADEMY #1 literally came out the same week that Sean McKeever & David Baldeon's YOUNG ALLIES #1 came out (which likely didn't help the latter; AA will last at least until issue #12 and likely until #14, while YA was canned at issue 6 and had to quickly reassemble its second arc into a mini with Onslaught and the Secret Avengers). I don't think Firestar could appear in both teams and that would have required McKeever to change his line up for the series. Frankly, any line up for a team has to be approved by an editor (even Bendis likely HAS to include Spider-Man and/or Wolverine on at least one of his Avengers rosters) and the YOUNG ALLIES editor wanted or approved of Firestar there. She retired in FRONTLINE during CW and MARVEL DIVAS painted Angelica into that corner of wanting to focus on her recovery and college and only be a part-time heroine. That wasn't something McKeever did, but the slate he inherited. I suppose you could argue, and not unfairly, that if Spider-Man, Wolverine, Red Hulk, and Beast can be in at least two ongoing titles at once (if not more), so can Firestar.

You claim that Tigra's inclusion in ACADEMY is because of Gage's own preference for her and that Firestar would draw more of a crowd. To be blunt, that is very debatable. Firestar's only claim to fame above Tigra is that she debuted in an NBC cartoon series from 1982-1985 (which aired in network syndication until about 1988-1989 and pops up occasionally on cable syndication). Usually the only fans who have any heavy nostalgia for her are at least around 30 years old. To be blunt, the cast of AVENGERS ACADEMY was always going to be a tough draw because you have some B-Listers, some C-Listers, and five recent to new characters. I honestly don't believe swapping out Tigra for Firestar would have added one additional sale to the tallies. I honestly don't believe that "buzz" over Firestar/Justice dramatic tension would have effected sales. Sean McKeever had the two get into that in 3 issues of I AM AN AVENGER and they hardly flew off the racks. Admittedly, anthologies often sell poorly.

But for total disclosure, I like how Gage has handled Tigra. I don't think her story forever bookended in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE #35 and I have liked seeing it continue. Gage took a character who was often dismissed as either furry fetish fuel by artists or an easy victim by Bendis and turned her into a strong veteran presence as well as a mother. Given that Gage was bringing in Justice and Speedball from A:TI to AA, it made sense to include Tigra too (the "Pym" involved was mostly a Skrull). To be blunt, if Tigra wasn't on AA I imagine she and her kid would have been killed in a background panel of NEW AVENGERS by now (likely in the "Hood gets the Infinity Gems" story). Gage took a character I really didn't care about before and turned her into a viable cast member for me, and I don't usually get tired of seeing her. It is a fair criticism, though, that Tigra and Pym get the lion's share of the focus on AA out of the teaching staff. Quicksilver's focus is usually attached to Finesse and both Justice and Speedball are mostly background faces.

I suppose the other element of your version of the series that I disagree with, as a matter of opinion of course, is how you quickly seemed to shift some characters into "obvious villain" territory. You made Mettle into a henchman of Ultron and that's probably my strongest disagreement. Mettle is one of my favorite characters in the series and that is directly because he doesn't act like his appearance implies. He looks big, scary, and obviously evil, but he completely isn't. If anything, I'd argue he usually the most gentle and mellow out of all the kids. Your pitch has a lot of interesting ideas but turning Mettle into a stereotype isn't one I liked.

Now, I suppose your angle is that some of these kids ARE going to be villains in the end anyway, otherwise the Avengers come off as needlessly paranoid - and therefore, best to get to the point faster. But I think what makes AA a compelling read is that it ISN'T so easy to just examine the kids and assume who is obviously going to be joining the next New Warriors and who is obviously up to join the Young Masters. Aside for Reptil, who most likely will stay on the side of angels because he's from MARVEL SUPER HERO SQUAD. Then again, Firestar joined the Hellions for a while, so who knows. The characters who seem "most likely" to turn out bad end up having some sympathetic or even noble qualities in those focus issues. Striker, after all, didn't take advantage of Veil when he had the chance. While Hazmat seems aggressive and all that, she notably didn't kill Osborn when she could have, even though she doesn't know why. There is also a side of me that doesn't mind the Finesse/Reptil fling because teenagers do that - they have flings that don't work out and aren't kismet. Too many fictional stories forget this and attach two teenagers to the hip forever as true, eternal love, and that is probably less realistic than super powers. Take Spider-Man. In the comics, Peter Parker ultimately married (or at least got engaged to) MJ for 20 years. But before that, he dated Betty Brant, flirted with Liz Allen, nearly married Gwen Stacy, dated Cissy Ironwood and Debra Whitman, before he settled with MJ for a while. In the film trilogy, Peter was obsessed with MJ since first grade and we had to deal with 3 films telling us how they were true love. It was very, very simplistic and by the third, that well was dry. Now, if in the future of AA, Gage does have Reptil and Veil become a couple, I think it will be stronger because at the very least Reptil KNOWS the difference between "something special" and "fooling around". Finesse really only dated him because she wanted experience.

I am not sure if you read the letter columns, but in them, Gage revealed that he hadn't intended to imply that Reptil & Finesse actually slept with each other. To him, they made out and maybe got to second base or so, but didn't go "all the way". However, he realized most of his audience interpreted as sex, which he feels was his own responsibility because he didn't write it better. I am curious how the Handbook staff will interpret it. Gage even apologized for it, which impressed me as some writers merely say something like, "Read it again, knowing what you know now" and deny errors happen.

While I do agree that Mentallo is a "lower level" villain, there is a part of me that wonders if Mysterio is really more of a sales draw. Would anyone who didn't read AA before suddenly buy a copy that had Mysterio on the cover? Because I can think of far more "popular" villains to have the team fight than Mentallo or Mysterio if that was the aim. The plot also required a villain who could somehow control the rest of the team while being overwhelmed by a small dinosaur. Mentallo fit that mold; Mysterio, well, he is a guy who has to contend with someone with a spider-sense and Class 10 strength on a regular basis. Mark Millar seemed to believe he could trick Wolverine into slaughtering the X-Men. It also brings to mind an earlier point about villain reputations; if you show more "higher level" villains being pummeled by kid heroes, suddenly those villains suck. Nobody takes Rhino or Mr. Hyde or the Wrecking Crew seriously anymore because they're always trucked out as jobbers to build someone else's reputation. I don't mind Mentallo being taken down by a kid who can barely control his powers; I might be miffed if Mysterio was.

I am curious about whether showing Absorbing Man being beaten before his conflict with Pym would have really helped matters. If he was beaten before in the same book, why in the world would his appearance in Pym's issue offer any dramatic weight? We'd have seen him lose a few issues before.

You also seem to have confused Striker with the new Executioner from DARK REIGN: YOUNG AVENGERS. Striker's mom isn't Princess Python, unless I missed something; she's basically "some woman". Executioner, on the other hand, is Python's son and he's such a zealot that when he found out his mother was a criminal, he bombed her car. Of course I wouldn't mind if his parent was a villain, depending on who it was and if the ages worked. In AA it was implied that he got his abilities from who his father was (and he isn't a mutant), but who that was is unknown. YOUNG ALLIES spend a third of an issue having Electro explain he hasn't been active long enough to have sired a kid who gained electric powers (unless it was someone he sired before he was empowered and the fact that said kid gained electric mutant powers was the biggest coincidence in all of comics).

I do like the idea of Ultron being built up as a threat; I can tell you I'd be more psyched to see him showing up in the next few issues than Korvac. But Korvac is also a big Avengers/Guardians Of The Galaxy villain so that should be pretty good, too.

I am iffy about the idea of Taskmaster becoming part of the staff. It, frankly, seems a bit out of character for him and the Avengers. He was a trainer for the Initiative, but only because he was forced to under Stark, and then working for another criminal under Osborn. More to the point, it would be completely daft for the Avengers to trust a guy who has been nothing but a threat to them to handle kids. If they were willing to do that, why NOT have Moonstone do psych evaluations? The only heroes who know about Taskmaster's "condition" are Steve Rogers and possibly most of the Secret Avengers (save for War Machine). I could possibly see Taskmaster maybe wanting to work for them so he can get more data for himself (and watch his daughter if he remembered her and she is his daughter), but I can't think of one reason why the Avengers staff would trust him. Even if Finesse WAS his daughter, that's a good reason to limit his influence. The only wild card is Pym, who Dan Slott once had offer Loki a place at the Avengers side. But I can't imagine anyone else trusting him. I like how the staff has mostly limited the instructors to genuine heroes like Steve Rogers, Iron Fist, and so on. I am curious whether his appearance in MARVEL VS. CAPCOM 3 will increase his popularity; it certainly didn't help his mini from last year sell well.

Still, I do appreciate you offering concrete examples of improvements you think are needed that we can discuss, rather than a "it has to be better" sort of thing. It makes for a better conversation, I think.

FYI, Dan Slott does seem to be on a tear in BIG TIME; within 7 issues, he seemingly killed 3 characters (although Montana isn't confirmed at all).

In the name of fairness, if I had one "wish list" plot I wanted to see the AVENGERS ACADEMY tackle, I would really love if the cadets met some genuine "super villain kids". The Young Masters as well as the Bastards Of Evil from YOUNG ALLIES have provided fodder for two of them. It might be interesting. Most examples of villains are older adults, but what if they met other kids who were baddies? Might make for an interesting outing.

Uncanny X-Force, Avengers Academy and ASM are my 3 top books right now. Then T-Bolts and Punisher MAX (now that it's coming back out again).

Good to see I'm not alone in my AVENGERS ACADEMY love. Its one of my favorite books, too. In fact it may be at the top right now, since INCREDIBLE HERCULES is taking a siesta before relaunching as HERC. I know I like it more than CAPTAIN AMERICA for some time, and even BIG TIME on ASM. HEROES FOR HIRE has been damn good, though. And POWER MAN & IRON FIST is great, although it's a mini.