BOUGHT/THOUGHT for Wednesday, February 14th

[Tropico]

okay.

explain to me how there are two supergirls. and wasn't power girl supergirl, once? what happened there?

and that's just one example.

your average reader can't just pick up a dc book and catch on like they could a marvel book. without things like these boards and wikipedia, i don't think i'd read any dc books.

That's a misleading argument. If you want to know everything about the character, then Marvel is no better than DC. If you concentrate on when you jump on and MAYBE a bit back you won't have any problems. Otherwise, no new reader would be able to get into Spider Man.

 

[PhotoJones]

That's a misleading argument. If you want to know everything about the character, then Marvel is no better than DC. If you concentrate on when you jump on and MAYBE a bit back you won't have any problems. Otherwise, no new reader would be able to get into Spider Man.

i didn't say anything about knowing everything about a character. i'm talking about picking up a book and being able to follow along.

like i said in my original post on this topic, i said that marvel was better at creating jumping on points between arcs. it's true.

 

[BrianWilly]

okay.

explain to me how there are two supergirls. and wasn't power girl supergirl, once? what happened there?

and that's just one example.

your average reader can't just pick up a dc book and catch on like they could a marvel book. without things like these boards and wikipedia, i don't think i'd read any dc books.

Explain to me Valeria Richards. Explain to me Rachel Grey, or Nathan Summers. Please tell me all about Xorn, and who/what exactly he was. Hell, I'd like to know about the Sentry, please. Hey, incidentally...is Jean Grey the Phoenix responsible for the destruction of the alien world, or isn't she? And wasn't there more than one Thor running around at some point? What's Thor-Girl's deal, anyway? And...Spider-Girl? She's in another universe? Or this one? How does that work?

And...there's only one Supergirl right now. Power Girl was never Supergirl, she never called herself Supergirl, not even in pre-Crisis.

The pendulum swings both ways, y'know. Each universe has confusing, complicated characters. Maybe the DCU has slightly more of these characters. Or maybe they're just in the forefront of the universe more. Either way, both universes have them.

but what's 52 anyway? it's ANOTHER attempt at creating a cohesive, working universe. how many times has dc had to do that?

and how many times WILL they have to do that in the future?

Frankly, up until very recently, DC has had a lot more cohesiveness and inter-title continuity than Marvel did. Or where exactly was Asgard floating in the sky in all those Spider-Man titles?

 

[yenaled]

okay.

explain to me how there are two supergirls. and wasn't power girl supergirl, once? what happened there?

and that's just one example.

your average reader can't just pick up a dc book and catch on like they could a marvel book. without things like these boards and wikipedia, i don't think i'd read any dc books.

Well at the moment, there are not two Supergirls, there are two books with her in: one set in the future and one in the present.

But explaining all the Supergirls, very briefly; Power Girl was basically Supergirl from a now defunct Universe. There was also a Supergirl who died from another now dead universe. Then there was Matrix who was created by Lex Luthor who merged with Linda Danvers who was more like a fallen angel who believed she was Supergirl (but Brian Willy might correct me on this ).

But I'm not sure how any of this would make you unable to read the new Supergirl series which doesn't even mention any of the other characters. The new Supergirl is Kal-El's cousin who was rocketed to Earth. That's all you need to know. To read Batman you don't need to know there was a Batman who died who lived in another universe because apart from COIE and IC these issues never get brought up.

It would be like saying "I can't read Fantastic Four because Valeria Richards' history confuses me".

 

[BrianWilly]

Then there was Matrix who was created by Lex Luthor who merged with Linda Danvers who was more like a fallen angel who believed she was Supergirl (but Brian Willy might correct me on this )

You forgot to add that she was PURE AWESOME.

 

[Tropico]

i didn't say anything about knowing everything about a character. i'm talking about picking up a book and being able to follow along.

like i said in my original post on this topic, i said that marvel was better at creating jumping on points between arcs. it's true.

Then, to use you example, why ask about the previous Supergirls? All you need to know about the current one is what's been shown about her. You don't need to know about the one that died in Crisis or Matrix, you just have follow along this one. Look at all the people that say they don't know much about the JSA characters but are loving the story and characters. It just seems to me that you're more of a Marvel fan and probably have some bias. Although, I expect comments like these from geeks like us that want to get the lowdown on characters we don't know, other people wouldn't be worrying about past history like that.t:

 

[PhotoJones]

Explain to me Valeria Richards. Explain to me Rachel Grey, or Nathan Summers. Please tell me all about Xorn, and who/what exactly he was. Hell, I'd like to know about the Sentry, please. Hey, incidentally...is Jean Grey the Phoenix responsible for the destruction of the alien world, or isn't she? And wasn't there more than one Thor running around at some point? What's Thor-Girl's deal, anyway? And...Spider-Girl? She's in another universe? Or this one? How does that work?

And...there's only one Supergirl right now. Power Girl was never Supergirl, she never called herself Supergirl, not even in pre-Crisis.

The pendulum swings both ways, y'know. Each universe has confusing, complicated characters. Maybe the DCU has slightly more of these characters. Or maybe they're just in the forefront of the universe more. Either way, both universes have them.


Frankly, up until very recently, DC has had a lot more cohesiveness and inter-title continuity than Marvel did. Or where exactly was Asgard floating in the sky in all those Spider-Man titles?

your examples are pretty piss-poor. out of all of them, xorn is the only one worth bringing up. and even marvel will admit their mistake there.

the VAST majority of ALL marvel stories take place and have taken in one universe. that's all you need to be able to understand. you buy a back issue, guess what? same universe as the issue on the stands. there's no earth-2, no pre-crisis, no post-crisis; just one universe (again, for the most part) since the begining.

you cannot tell me that the marvel universe is just as confusing as the dc universe. it's just not true.

and in most (if not all) of the books marvel puts out, it only takes a quick glance at the recap page, and your good to go.

 

[BrianWilly]

Okay. Then tell me about Valeria Richards.

 

[PhotoJones]

Okay. Then tell me about Valeria Richards.

she showed up, maxxed her powers out and regressed into a fetus in sue's tummy.

since then, she's been born and is a normal kid.

 

[BrianWilly]

Hah, that's great. You missed the spot where she originated as Dr. Doom and Sue Storm's time-travelling daughter in an alternate future and to this day we're not sure if this alternate Doom is her father or if Reed is. That, incidentally, explains why Doom was so interested in her in Unthinkable. Oh yeah, and the reason she lost her powers is because she had to help Franklin stop Abraxas, the anti-Galactus, who had killed every Galactus in every single alternate universe.

See, I can simplify, too. By that exact same logic, I can just say that Supergirl is "just" Superman's cousin, and Wonder Girl is "just" Wonder Woman's sister.

What's hilarious about people who complain about DC's multiple Earths is that Marvel has multiple Earths, too. Or did we just sleep through the entirety of Days of Futures Past, Age of Apocalypse, and Exiles?

 

[PhotoJones]

Hah, that's great. You missed the spot where she originated as Dr. Doom and Sue Storm's time-travelling daughter in an alternate future and to this day we're not sure if this alternate Doom is her father or if Reed is. That, incidentally, explains why Doom was so interested in her in Unthinkable. Oh yeah, and the reason she lost her powers is because she had to help Franklin stop Abraxas, the anti-Galactus, who had killed every Galactus in every single alternate universe.

See, I can simplify, too. By that exact same logic, I can just say that Supergirl is "just" Superman's cousin, and Wonder Girl is "just" Wonder Woman's sister.

What's hilarious about people who complain about DC's multiple Earths is that Marvel has multiple Earths, too. Or did we just sleep through the entirety of Days of Futures Past, Age of Apocalypse, and Exiles?

the difference is that "days of future past" and exiles are created to be alternate timelines/universes. dc just gets tangled up in their own **** and labels past mistakes as "parallel earths". lame city.

look, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, here. you will never convince me otherwise and vice versa.

 

[BrianWilly]

Yeah, 'cause the entirety of the Golden Age of Comics was a "past mistake." You have no idea what Multiple Earths actually are, do you?

Ah, "agreeing to disagree." Aka, "I've been caught in a mistake and can't think of anything to refute with, but I'm still right anyway."

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Hah, that's great. You missed the spot where she originated as Dr. Doom and Sue Storm's time-travelling daughter in an alternate future and to this day we're not sure if this alternate Doom is her father or if Reed is. That, incidentally, explains why Doom was so interested in her in Unthinkable. Oh yeah, and the reason she lost her powers is because she had to help Franklin stop Abraxas, the anti-Galactus, who had killed every Galactus in every single alternate universe.

See, I can simplify, too. By that exact same logic, I can just say that Supergirl is "just" Superman's cousin, and Wonder Girl is "just" Wonder Woman's sister.

What's hilarious about people who complain about DC's multiple Earths is that Marvel has multiple Earths, too. Or did we just sleep through the entirety of Days of Futures Past, Age of Apocalypse, and Exiles?

Abraxas wasn't an anti-Galactus, he was the being that all Galactus' were striving to contain.

An anti-Galactus would've been helpful.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yeah, 'cause the entirety of the Golden Age of Comics was a "past mistake." You have no idea what Multiple Earths actually are, do you?

Ah, "agreeing to disagree." Aka, "I've been caught in a mistake and can't think of anything to refute with, but I'm still right anyway."

That's not exactly true. That's being arrogant.

 

[PhotoJones]

Yeah, 'cause the entirety of the Golden Age of Comics was a "past mistake." You have no idea what Multiple Earths actually are, do you?

Ah, "agreeing to disagree." Aka, "I've been caught in a mistake and can't think of anything to refute with, but I'm still right anyway."

you're really good at taking things out of context and putting words in people's mouthes, aren't you?

i know what multiple earths are. i don't like them. i think it's a half-assed way of explaining things. if you think differently, fine.

and "agreeing to disagree" means that i'm tired of trading posts with someone if it's not going anywhere. not your fault. not my fault.

is that okay? or do i have to sink to your level a snarkiness and petty?

 

[hippy fascist]

 

[BrianWilly]

Sure it's going somewhere. You're making less and less sense, and I'm not. *shrug* Sorry if that sounds snarky, but it is what it is. I have no problem with different opinions about things. What I do have a problem with is people spewing a lot of "opinions" and then not being able to justify any of them.

Your interpretation of Multiple Earths is just weird. All it really is -- using your logic of simplification -- is alternate universes, and every single comic book company has them. Marvel has had five major events off the top of my head that involved alternate universes! Yet you're coming up with all this tomfoolery about mistakes and explaining things or whatever. And it hasn't even been a factor in the DCU for twenty years. Even in Infinite Crisis, whose plotline revolved around Multiple Earths, it just appeared for about an issue and a half and then went away again.

Absolutely none of which has anything to do with the cohesiveness of the two universes or how easy it is to get into them in the first place. You don't like the multiverse, fine. But it's not nearly as complicated, or as exclusive, as you're trying to make it sound.

 

[PhotoJones]

Sure it's going somewhere. You're making less and less sense, and I'm not. *shrug* Sorry if that sounds snarky, but it is what it is. I have no problem with different opinions about things. What I do have a problem with is people spewing a lot of "opinions" and then not being able to justify any of them.

Your interpretation of Multiple Earths is just weird. All it really is -- using your logic of simplification -- is alternate universes, and every single comic book company has them. Marvel has had five major events off the top of my head that involved alternate universes! Yet you're coming up with all this tomfoolery about mistakes and explaining things or whatever. And it hasn't even been a factor in the DCU for twenty years. Even in Infinite Crisis, whose plotline revolved around Multiple Earths, it just appeared for about an issue and a half and then went away again.

Absolutely none of which has anything to do with the cohesiveness of the two universes or how easy it is to get into them in the first place. You don't like the multiverse, fine. But it's not nearly as complicated, or as exclusive, as you're trying to make it sound.

jesus christ.

 

[hippy fascist]

Sure it's going somewhere. You're making less and less sense, and I'm not. *shrug* Sorry if that sounds snarky, but it is what it is. I have no problem with different opinions about things. What I do have a problem with is people spewing a lot of "opinions" and then not being able to justify any of them.

Your interpretation of Multiple Earths is just weird. All it really is -- using your logic of simplification -- is alternate universes, and every single comic book company has them. Marvel has had five major events off the top of my head that involved alternate universes! Yet you're coming up with all this tomfoolery about mistakes and explaining things or whatever. And it hasn't even been a factor in the DCU for twenty years. Even in Infinite Crisis, whose plotline revolved around Multiple Earths, it just appeared for about an issue and a half and then went away again.

Absolutely none of which has anything to do with the cohesiveness of the two universes or how easy it is to get into them in the first place. You don't like the multiverse, fine. But it's not nearly as complicated, or as exclusive, as you're trying to make it sound.

Dude, embrace the calm. It's not like he just **** in the mouths of your children or something. Feel the mellow and find peace

 

[PhotoJones]

Sure it's going somewhere. You're making less and less sense, and I'm not. *shrug* Sorry if that sounds snarky, but it is what it is. I have no problem with different opinions about things. What I do have a problem with is people spewing a lot of "opinions" and then not being able to justify any of them.

Your interpretation of Multiple Earths is just weird. All it really is -- using your logic of simplification -- is alternate universes, and every single comic book company has them. Marvel has had five major events off the top of my head that involved alternate universes! Yet you're coming up with all this tomfoolery about mistakes and explaining things or whatever. And it hasn't even been a factor in the DCU for twenty years. Even in Infinite Crisis, whose plotline revolved around Multiple Earths, it just appeared for about an issue and a half and then went away again.

Absolutely none of which has anything to do with the cohesiveness of the two universes or how easy it is to get into them in the first place. You don't like the multiverse, fine. But it's not nearly as complicated, or as exclusive, as you're trying to make it sound.

on second thought, i'll go ahead and post this:

first of all, did you have a bad day today? if so, it's okay. tomorrow's a new one.

secondly, have you really brought this subject into the land of "i don't agree with you, so i have to be a ****"? you're a better poster than that, dude.

thirdly (and lastly), i'm not going to go much further into what i've already typed. i don't like the idea of multiple earths. i like one single earth. it's more enjoyable for me. i'm entitled to that, right? my opinion and all.

i really don't know what else to say. i feel like you need some kind of justification or validation that i'm unable to give, or something.

 

[GNR]

i disagree, man. completely.

marvel at least has some semblance of continuity and a shared universe. and each new arc in any given book is usually pretty good for jumping in on.

dc on the other hand has no concept of being reader friendly. i'm a smart guy, but trying to figure out continuity and the different earths is too much for me. that and every book seems to be in it's own little world.

I supported this argument up until about a year ago.

I started reading DC monthly after being a complete Marvel zombie and was EASILY able to jump onto many titles.(eg.Teen Titans,Detective Comics,Green Lantern,Uncle Sam,BOP,JLA,etc)

Sure DC's continuity is enough to give you a headache,I don't understand it and I have no intention of doing so.But it isn't so bad that if you were to pick up a new arc,you would automatically be lost.Plus, it does not take away from the quality of alot of their books

 

[BrianWilly]

on second thought, i'll go ahead and post this:

first of all, did you have a bad day today? if so, it's okay. tomorrow's a new one.

secondly, have you really brought this subject into the land of "i don't agree with you, so i have to be a ****"? you're a better poster than that, dude.

thirdly (and lastly), i'm not going to go much further into what i've already typed. i don't like the idea of multiple earths. i like one single earth. it's more enjoyable for me. i'm entitled to that, right? my opinion and all.

i really don't know what else to say. i feel like you need some kind of justification or validation that i'm unable to give, or something.

Sigh. All I "need" is for people to not make blank statements all the time. Maybe I should have just let it go after your whole "agree to disagree" statement. But frankly? I hate that statement. It's a cheap way for people to have to get out of explaining themselves after already having made a multitude of comments that don't make sense or are just flat-out wrong and going "I still think I'm right" without actually having to listen to anything anyone else is saying. You make a bunch of claims about a bunch of things, and not one of them holds up under scrutiny.

Frankly, your reasons still don't make sense. You like Marvel for having one universe...except that sometimes it doesn't. You don't like DC for having many universes...except that most of the times it doesn't. You like Marvel for having simple characters...except that many of them aren't. You don't like DC for having complicated characters...except that many of them aren't.

I'm not the only one telling you that this doesn't make sense, I'm just the only one who's saying it over and over again and rolling my eyes when you reply with "I just do, okay?"

 

[GNR]

It's okay,photojones is known to have alot of bad opinions.

 

[hippy fascist]

OH SNAP!

 

[PhotoJones]

Sigh. All I "need" is for people to not make blank statements all the time. Maybe I should have just let it go after your whole "agree to disagree" statement. But frankly? I hate that statement. It's a cheap way for people to have to get out of explaining themselves after already having made a multitude of comments that don't make sense or are just flat-out wrong and going "I still think I'm right" without actually having to listen to anything anyone else is saying. You make a bunch of claims about a bunch of things, and not one of them holds up under scrutiny.

Frankly, your reasons still don't make sense. You like Marvel for having one universe...except that sometimes it doesn't. You don't like DC for having many universes...except that most of the times it doesn't. You like Marvel for having simple characters...except that many of them aren't. You don't like DC for having complicated characters...except that many of them aren't.

I'm not the only one telling you that this doesn't make sense, I'm just the only one who's saying it over and over again and rolling my eyes when you reply with "I just do, okay?"

i don't even know what your point is anymore.

and to fill you in, i'm not the only one with this opinion either (as evidenced by past posts).

you seem to have made it your goal to "show me the light", and it's just not going to happen. and it's OKAY.

It's okay,photojones is known to have alot of bad opinions.

i am?? for curiosity's sake, do you mind giving examples?

i promise to not bite your head off.