Bought/Thought "It's the Punisher Beeyotch!" Edition for Nov.22nd

[roach]

Why is there any reason but to praise and promote the great work the big two is doing? Why waste space on your magazine telling someone how badly something sucks, when you could explain why a particular book is flying off the shelves?

but Wizard should be that magazine that tells me what to get and what to stay away from.....when was the last time Wizard told you what not to get???

 

[PhotoJones]

Last, and most definately LEAST

ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #102: Short version, more conveluted crap happens, where Bendis arrogantly believed that he could write a Clone Saga that didn't suck and is obviously wrong (although the sales back him up; people love to watch a good trainwreck). In last week's B/T, I got into a little debate regarding how Bendis writes costumed females. I'll redefine my statement; all costumed women in USM are unbeatable. This issue proves what many have suspected as Ultimate Spider-Woman is indeed a female clone of Peter and without testes to weigh her down she gets to be competant, intelligent, and efficient in battle; everything Peter hasn't been for, oh, maybe a good year now. I like strong heroines but the way Bendis has written USW, Black Cat, Sable, Elektra, etc they all come off boring and interchangeable for me; and they always either beat or defeat Spidey regardless of power level, which is just as silly as when anyone with a penis used to be able to tie up Wonder Woman. I loved how Bagley draws a "shocking" unmasking scene, but I have to wait to read the dialogue for the reveal because he draws all faces the same, and USW looked more or less like Kitty. Kind of like Capt. Stacy looked like Norman Osborn a lot, and, oh, forget it. And naturally, Bendis likes Spider-Woman so much that he has to make her literally cloned from Peter Parker. She reveals basically the entire motive behind the Clone Saga, and it is so complete that it makes the Richard Parker stuff from issue #100 utterly moot and useless, a waste of pages. But I am sure Bendis will throw in something regarding that to justify it. Basically, Rielly avoided prison after Carnage by offering the feds Peter's DNA, which they used in experiments to make Spider-Soldiers, including Spider-Woman, Six-Arm, Scorpian, Half-Face, and Gwenage. And because she has breasts, she naturally is the most perfect clone evers. Saddled with her own memories along with all of Peter's, she was about to be psychically "readjusted" by Madam Web before Gwenage busted everyone out, and they all rushed out to ruin Peter's comic book. Their previous fight revealed as "yet another arse kicking that Peter provoked" and both of them proved they are of the same DNA by doing atop a truck what USM does best; cry and wail. I've seen people watch their first born drown in gasoline and not mope as much as USM does. He makes Eric Foreman from THAT 70'S SHOW look like Darth Vader & Rambo combined. And all this so far makes Fury's motives for arresting Spidey even more ******ed; "I'm here to arrest you for the mess your clones made, which you didn't even know about, and which I could have found out about with my security clearance and known were the fed's doing and just sent the Ultimates to clean them up in half an hour, but I'd rather attack you and blow up half of Queens with my bowling-ball robots because...I'm a *****e." I could maybe forgive all of this if Bendis weren't so glaringly ARROGANT and believes he's somehow more innovative than most comic writers in the past, and feels it is he who needs to "do your job better" like Nuklon in 52 says. One would think Marvel's #1 writer wouldn't gleefully dare us to accept a rehash of the Clone Saga and then proceed to make it so ridiculously conveluted and illogical in about a 3rd of the time. What I don't get is that if Bendis loves Drew so much, why does he curse her to just being a tacky detail to Spider-Man's backstory much like X23 is to Wolverine's? And why did he have to doom the chance of EVER getting a good version of the Scorpion? No, Bagley could stay...it's Bendis who honestly needs to leave or get a co-writer. A book that once offered Spider-Man back to basics for the 21st century has become an ungodly predictable emasculating mess. Back in classic Spidey stories, sure, he freaked out, he got emotional, but he was never such a clueless putz that he needed to be perennially rescued and to always need his own damn plots explained to him by the hand in a good 3 or so arcs in a bloody row. I put up with flaws in this book before (the "unmasking/always fights someone who knows his ID" the main one), but this arc may be the straw. I'll finish it out and see how it ends, if only because watching a wreck is no fun unless you see how it explodes. And Sasquatch MJ still is the stupidest thing on legs I have seen in a while, making SPIDERCIDE look like an ALAN MOORE GIFT FROM ACROSS THE POND. She looks like a big demonic gerbil. And Dr. Octopus is behind it all? Like Peter said, "shouldn't my brain just give out on me now and just go into a coma!!??" And yes, you NEED two question marks and two exclaimation points, to show it means something. Wait..to show it means something!!!!????!!!!!????!!!!!!?????^&^#@@@!!!??! See?

And to prove there is no justice, guess how many adverts are in this mess? 8. Not even double digits. 24 pages worth in greatness like RUNAWAYS, and not even a dozen in Top 20 selling toilet paper like this.

Positives? The "Peter, when male, is a wimp" logic works in Peter's favor as he TKO's Half-Face with a single punch. And I'll admit that out of all of them, I actually like Six-Arms for some reason. The furry face shows he's obviously the most "spider" of all of them, and his costume design rocks. But that's kind of like getting amusement from a scene in a movie that is terrible.

Next issue I expect more wordy explainations and more "I, um, set this up for a while" stuff from Bendis. Now, the HOBGOBLIN stuff tied into LEGACY angle worked. But with this stuff, it just looks like a sequal to CARNAGE that has become infinately worse. When I read CARNAGE, I was still reading USM by trades so I only had to experience the crap in one sitting. This time I'm getting it spread across half a year. Let's just say...either an unlikely awesome ending or fanboy stubborness will keep me on USM after this ungodly mess staggers to rest and dies. And wasn't Bendis nice to believe that this story was good enough to last more than 6 issues? Usually a fate last left to HOM...and we know how that went. I all but want everyone to buy every copy of ULTIMATE CLONE SAGA, just so they pile it into a bonfire and wipe it's atoms from the earth. But that won't happen.

Lord, I need to reread RUNAWAYS and some trades of INVINCIBLE just to recover from that mess...shame on anyone who didn't try out Runaways before Whedon, it's the best Marvel ongoing on the racks, and all thanks to Vaughan. He's also kicking butt on DR. STRANGE: OATH, which should be an ongoing.

I also got the ALL NEW OFFICIAL HANDBOOK #11, which I'll absorb shortly.

i said it before in last week's b/t thread, and i'll say it again:

i'm amazed that you throw your money away, week after week on comics you obviously do not enjoy. you could easily feed a child in africa with the money you waste in a year on comics alone.

 

[Dread]

i said it before in last week's b/t thread, and i'll say it again:

i'm amazed that you throw your money away, week after week on comics you obviously do not enjoy. you could easily feed a child in africa with the money you waste in a year on comics alone.

I actually did enjoy USM overall until CLONE SAGA became almost irredeemable. Yes, in theory a strong finale could save it (and as someone else mentioned, the clones aside for the immortal, invincible Spider-Woman are all but expected to die), but I really doubt that is likely and it would have to be some finale to overcome this stuff.

USM had become even more repetitive the last few arcs, the Kitty relationship notwithstanding, but this arc is just oblivion for me. I'll finish it out and then see how I feel about the rest. If Bendis is out of ideas, than I doubt the book can improve until he gets a co-writer or leaves.

But, onto your point directly, why would someone buy a title they hate?

1). To be a completist.
2). Force of habit. It took me 8 years to dump WIZARD, especially since it stopped being critical of most books after the last 3 or so (and NOT because all comics have magically become good, there is good & bad in every year)
3). Hope that the book can improve; usually this happens when someone "waits out" a writer they dislike, for example, people who waited out Austen on UNCANNY yet read it because in modern comics, you HAVE to read to stay current otherwise you won't know jack. And no one, NO ONE enjoys going onto a board or wikipedia for a Cliff's Notes version. With ULTIMATE X-MEN someone could go, "Kirkman can't stay forever", but USM has less hope as Bendis launched it, will stay longer than Bagley and has the gig until he feels it is right to leave. As he apparently didn't feel resorting to rehashing the Clone Saga was a clear sign of imaginative burnout, we may be in for a long haul indeed.
4). To stay "current", as mentioned above.

Plus, few people cut out before an arc is finished. They like seeing how the train derails, explodes, and how many bodies there are.

I DID honestly like USM, despite it's glaring flaws. But with UCS...I just can't ignore how cruddy it has become.

 

[Purple Man]

My two cents is that the latest issues of Amazing Spider-Man and Ultimate Spider-Man have been the best they've been in months. If not a year or so.

 

[Purple Man]

but Wizard should be that magazine that tells me what to get and what to stay away from.....when was the last time Wizard told you what not to get???

Didn't see this before I made my first post, so I'll just answer that here.

Wizard does what most of the comic reading populace should do. They don't rate a story arc until it is completed.

Picking up monthlies is all about taking chances. They're not going to condemn a book mid-arc because one issue was bad.

I find it rather handy that they rate trades with a simple ABC grading.

Plus comic readers should have enough sense to know what they like and do not like. Wizard are just people like anyone of us and their tastes can radically differ from your own.

 

[hippy fascist]

Didn't see this before I made my first post, so I'll just answer that here.

Wizard does what most of the comic reading populace should do. They don't rate a story arc until it is completed.

Picking up monthlies is all about taking chances. They're not going to condemn a book mid-arc because one issue was bad.

I find it rather handy that they rate trades with a simple ABC grading.

Plus comic readers should have enough sense to know what they like and do not like. Wizard are just people like anyone of us and their tastes can radically differ from your own.

Actually Dread wasn't demanding that they trash them, just that they give an honest unbiased view of books. The problem with wizard is that tey no longer have the power they once had due to the readily available info on the internet. As a result they have decided they have to suck up to the big two wherever possible and therefore lost any sense of credibility. Wizard used to give commentry on comics, now it's just a glossy advert.

Also ultimate clone saga sucks. I have defended USM for a long time despite the haters but the MJ werewolf thing is too far. It smacks of shock tactics due to a lack of ideas and has ruined the last enjoyable part of that ****-rag

 

[Darthphere]

This is why I dont buy Ultimate titles....

 

[hippy fascist]

This is why I dont buy Ultimate titles....

because you knew that after ninety-odd issues it would begin to show signs of suckage

What about all the good arcs that came before?

 

[Darthphere]

because you knew that after ninety-odd issues it would begin to show signs of suckage

What about all the good arcs that came before?

Good is subjective. The thing I saw about the Ultimate titles, and I know youll probably disagree is that especially in USM theyre retelling classic storylines and since theyre classic they have to do something shocking and way out there to try to top that, and it usually fails miserably. For example, Carnage killing Gwen, sorry youll never get the emotional magnitude of the 616 death and add to the fact that the death itself was pretty cheap. So no, it was clear by far earlier than issue 90 that USM was trash IMO.

 

[hippy fascist]

Good is subjective. The thing I saw about the Ultimate titles, and I know youll probably disagree is that especially in USM theyre retelling classic storylines and since theyre classic they have to do something shocking and way out there to try to top that, and it usually fails miserably. For example, Carnage killing Gwen, sorry youll never get the emotional magnitude of the 616 death and add to the fact that the death itself was pretty cheap. So no, it was clear by far earlier than issue 90 that USM was trash IMO.

Yes that did suck but the venom origin actually made a lot more sense than the convoluted "planet of the symbiotes" crap the 616 serves up. 616 is far from perfect itself. I like ultimate because they tend to retell the stories/characters that were screwed up in the 616 quite well (save for the clone saga). Sadlly what with the hitch incident and the MJ werewolf thing the only ultimate book I buy these days is X-men and Kirkman's arc is sucking. However I have faith it will get better once the writer changes.

 

[Darthphere]

Yes that did suck but the venom origin actually made a lot more sense than the convoluted "planet of the symbiotes" crap the 616 serves up. 616 is far from perfect itself. I like ultimate because they tend to retell the stories/characters that were screwed up in the 616 quite well (save for the clone saga). Sadlly what with the hitch incident and the MJ werewolf thing the only ultimate book I buy these days is X-men and Kirkman's arc is sucking. However I have faith it will get better once the writer changes.

Yeah, the Planet Symbiote thing was stupid as hell. Is it that hard to keep it something simple?

 

[hippy fascist]

Yeah, the Planet Symbiote thing was stupid as hell. Is it that hard to keep it something simple?

It is...if you're a hack

 

[Darthphere]

You would think hacks would keep everything simple to hide their lack of talent, instead they try to confuse us into thinking its good. Bastards.

 

[hippy fascist]

You would think hacks would keep everything simple to hide their lack of talent, instead they try to confuse us into thinking its good. Bastards.

I think of it like music. Matt bellamy has to fit 30 different chords and endless solo's consisting of stupid ammounts of ****tery into every song. Kurt cobain took four chords and defined a generation. Simple but effective ideas are far harder to create than convoluted crap.

 

[PhotoJones]

I actually did enjoy USM overall until CLONE SAGA became almost irredeemable. Yes, in theory a strong finale could save it (and as someone else mentioned, the clones aside for the immortal, invincible Spider-Woman are all but expected to die), but I really doubt that is likely and it would have to be some finale to overcome this stuff.

USM had become even more repetitive the last few arcs, the Kitty relationship notwithstanding, but this arc is just oblivion for me. I'll finish it out and then see how I feel about the rest. If Bendis is out of ideas, than I doubt the book can improve until he gets a co-writer or leaves.

But, onto your point directly, why would someone buy a title they hate?

1). To be a completist.
2). Force of habit. It took me 8 years to dump WIZARD, especially since it stopped being critical of most books after the last 3 or so (and NOT because all comics have magically become good, there is good & bad in every year)
3). Hope that the book can improve; usually this happens when someone "waits out" a writer they dislike, for example, people who waited out Austen on UNCANNY yet read it because in modern comics, you HAVE to read to stay current otherwise you won't know jack. And no one, NO ONE enjoys going onto a board or wikipedia for a Cliff's Notes version. With ULTIMATE X-MEN someone could go, "Kirkman can't stay forever", but USM has less hope as Bendis launched it, will stay longer than Bagley and has the gig until he feels it is right to leave. As he apparently didn't feel resorting to rehashing the Clone Saga was a clear sign of imaginative burnout, we may be in for a long haul indeed.
4). To stay "current", as mentioned above.

Plus, few people cut out before an arc is finished. They like seeing how the train derails, explodes, and how many bodies there are.

I DID honestly like USM, despite it's glaring flaws. But with UCS...I just can't ignore how cruddy it has become.

of your points, i can only agree with one, and that's the completist aspect. you said that no one likes staying current by resorting to wikipedia or these boards, but that's how i stay current with a lot of characters and titles that i don't buy (for various reasons). reading in depth reviews like yours helps. as for the force of habit thing, i just do not understand that. i can't think of anything that i do out of habit that i don't enjoy. and lastly, having hope that a writer who you despise will suddenly two step into greatness is beyond hope. it's naive. i can't think of a single writer who i have disliked on a title suddenly change and become amazing (then again, i don't buy things i don't like).

also, i don't buy your opinions on usm anymore. you say that you "did" like it before the clone saga. but you've constantly stated how peter whines about everything and he's forever getting the crap kicked out of him at every turn. now, while that may be true, it doesn't make a lick of sense to state those things and turn around and say, "well, i DO like it though"...i don't get it.

 

[Dread]

Actually Dread wasn't demanding that they trash them, just that they give an honest unbiased view of books. The problem with wizard is that tey no longer have the power they once had due to the readily available info on the internet. As a result they have decided they have to suck up to the big two wherever possible and therefore lost any sense of credibility. Wizard used to give commentry on comics, now it's just a glossy advert.

Also ultimate clone saga sucks. I have defended USM for a long time despite the haters but the MJ werewolf thing is too far. It smacks of shock tactics due to a lack of ideas and has ruined the last enjoyable part of that ****-rag

Thanks for understanding my point. To be fair, this past year Wizard did start rating the trades of arcs when they were finished, but it felt a little cheap that they'd cheerlead every issue of a story and then maybe a month or two after it was done they'd rate it a C or worse. Couldn't they've had the cajones to say that a little sooner. Back in the old days they had a Grading Card sort of article, where they'd take maybe 3-5 titles and rate the last 6-7 issues worth, and they were actually honest about it. If Wolverine or ASM sucked, they said it. That helped round out their praises and other articles. But lately, as you said (and as I have said), Wizard has become more "positive". They claim it's because negativity doesn't help comics. I say it's because the internet has rendered them obsolete and without the "geared for Wizard" exclusives, they'd be dead in the water and their little monopoly on the comic magazine market would end (online, there is no monopoly as you have Newsarama, Comixfan, Comics Continuum, etc, all competing and alongside Wizardworld).

But, yeah, me dropping it came down to habit vs. money. Money won. It was $3.99 when I started getting it regularly around 1997 or so and it's $5.99 now, a penny more than two entire comics. It was time to bid farewell.

Good is subjective. The thing I saw about the Ultimate titles, and I know youll probably disagree is that especially in USM theyre retelling classic storylines and since theyre classic they have to do something shocking and way out there to try to top that, and it usually fails miserably. For example, Carnage killing Gwen, sorry youll never get the emotional magnitude of the 616 death and add to the fact that the death itself was pretty cheap. So no, it was clear by far earlier than issue 90 that USM was trash IMO.

Yes, "good" is subjective. I see your point and in a way I sort of agree. USM was usually at it's best when it simply took the "Spider-Man formula", and did it well. Updates for modern times like cells, computers and teen lingo were okay. The climaxes usually paid off for most of it's arcs in the beginning for me. I didn't even mind how VENOM turned out. But you're right, USM obviously lives in the shadow of 616 greatness and that adds pressure to try to overcome it, and it usually fails. Hence why shock values aren't always the best baskets to place eggs in.

Granted, you just don't seem to like Ultimate titles, and that's fine. To me they're like other titles, have their hits and misses.

of your points, i can only agree with one, and that's the completist aspect. you said that no one likes staying current by resorting to wikipedia or these boards, but that's how i stay current with a lot of characters and titles that i don't buy (for various reasons). reading in depth reviews like yours helps. as for the force of habit thing, i just do not understand that. i can't think of anything that i do out of habit that i don't enjoy. and lastly, having hope that a writer who you despise will suddenly two step into greatness is beyond hope. it's naive. i can't think of a single writer who i have disliked on a title suddenly change and become amazing (then again, i don't buy things i don't like).

also, i don't buy your opinions on usm anymore. you say that you "did" like it before the clone saga. but you've constantly stated how peter whines about everything and he's forever getting the crap kicked out of him at every turn. now, while that may be true, it doesn't make a lick of sense to state those things and turn around and say, "well, i DO like it though"...i don't get it.

You're free not to buy my opinions, they're all subjective after all.

Everyone does something out of habit they don't enjoy, usually work but can be other obligations. Your point is probably about not making a comic title into that. If you hate it, immediately dump it and that's that. Objectively, that's very logical. But if humans were logical, the world wouldn't be crap. Besides, then every review would be a love fest and those get old very fast. Topics where a bunch of fans just rave about a title they love go nowhere and need to be constantly revived. But a good debate or even something that's loathed, boy, the pages fly by by the hour. People tend to focus on the negative most times. One scandal eliminates decades of decent work, for instance.

You're right, it is naive to expect a writer on a title to suddenly improve. There is the theory that some stories are "experiments" and some do better than others, but with a title like USM that even a lot of fans feel has been past it's prime for a while now, it's sort of like keeping Mackie on ASM after the Clone Saga; an exercise in futility. I'll finish out Ultimate Clone Saga, and then decide on the rest.

As for why I focus on the negatives of past USM stuff even when I claimed to like it overall? Firstly, that was in the past; the present of USM is lousey to me so I'm naturally on "nego-vision" with it. Secondly, I also tend to focus on the negative. My longest posts are when I'm whining about something. Just how I work. But I do try to balence it out. A few weeks ago when DR. STRANGE: OATH #2, ANNIHILATION #4 and CW: YA/RUNAWAYS #4 came out, I called it an "Axis of Awesome" and gushed. That got old, though, didn't it? But some storm and fury about Monster Gerbil MJ, and boy, I get me some replies.

 

[BrianWilly]

I've never had any trouble dropping books that seemed to be dropping in quality. There's no conceivable way for me to pick up every single ongoing that even remotely triggers my interest; it's just not possible. So why waste the money on something that doesn't?

Case in point, I dropped Blue Beetle after #5 because the art was getting shttier and the plot didn't seem to be going anywhere. But I hear that the most recent issue, #9, was awesome beyond measure so I'll probably pick that up next week.

See? It's not like they burn all the books in a shop the moment that you leave the store; the worst thing that could possibly happen by not buying something that you might not like is that you might change your mind and buy it anyway a few weeks later. And if you don't, then you still win, 'cause you probably weren't going to like it.

I've long, long since paid the price of buying something without being sure of its quality. That price was called "Ultimate War." Never again, you bastards, never again.

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, I dropped Action Comics for the forseeable future, I just cant take that **** right now. But I usually dont drop a title in the middle of an arc for the sake of completion/hoping it gets better, but with Action im almost positive it wont happen for me. The way I see it, if you dont like a title you should drop it and buy something you do like, but on the flipside, its your money and I really have no place in telling you what to do with your hard earned cash. I for one keep buying The Flash. Why? Because I have a morbid curiosity if it can get any worse.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Just a note on Wizard, they sent me a subscription renewal form. I paid $56 fer 2 years when the book was still $4.99. It's $5.99 now and 2 years would cost $48. WTF?!

 

[hippy fascist]

Just a note on Wizard, they sent me a subscription renewal form. I paid $56 fer 2 years when the book was still $4.99. It's $5.99 now and 2 years would cost $48. WTF?!

It's a ****-rag and nobody who has access to the internet buys it regularly anymore. Hence they slash the price for regular customers to keep a steady stream of income coming in

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, we already have a Wizard *****ing thread over in Misc. Comics, go there. Fact is, its true most of the stuff that Wizard has come out on the net, but they do get exclusive preview pages and interviews, so there is something to get out of it.

 

[hippy fascist]

Yeah, we already have a Wizard *****ing thread over in Misc. Comics, go there. Fact is, its true most of the stuff that Wizard has come out on the net, but they do get exclusive preview pages and interviews, so there is something to get out of it.

5.99 for a couple of pages of decent content. Pffft...

 

[Darthphere]

Actually more than that. I know its popular to ***** about Wizard, but its more than a couple of pages of content.

 

[GNR]

A very late addition.....

Absolute New Frontier by Cooke

While visiting the US this weekend,I stumbled upon this massive beast.Had some extra cash from relatives,so I just had to.

First of all the story is great.Not what I was expecting,but very inspiring and optimistic.This is one of those stories where even if you didn't enjoy the climax,you have to appreciate Cooke's ability to easily transport the reader into 1950s America.The first 2 pages or so really set the tone of the story well and you get a sense of what was going on at the time.The Wildcat fight and the Hourman chase were also very well done.I really enjoyed alot of these more quiet moments.Hal,Barry and John Jones were just awesome to watch grow into the heroes they are.Now is it just me,or does NF act as an unofficial sequel to Golden Age?

Cooke's cartoon art is only fitting to this story,it really adds another depth to the story I don't think any otehr art

There's a good number of extras at the end as well.The annotations which go page by page were just great to read.There's some sketches and other material as well,haven't really browsed thru it yet.

If you haven't read the story,I really recommend buying the Absolute.This story works very well in this format especially with an epic story like this.Sure it's pricy,but you're only going to be spending an extra 30 dollars on top of what the 2 trades would cost.It's really worth the investment.

All in all,my first Absolute purchase was a hit and I'm really glad with it.If you're going to pick up an Absolute,I would really recommend this one or Kingdom Come.I skipped out on KC just because I already on the trade.

Green Arrow Quiver-Finally got around to picking up Kevin Smith's entire run.Fell in love with the character after watching JLU so decided to hunt this down.Hester's art is awesome,very sharp and simple at the same time.The coloring job was also expectional.Smith writes a pretty good story of Ollie's return.I found alot of the conversations very hilarious and laugh out loud.Batman was more witty here than ever,but it works.I loved the interaction between Hal and Ollie especially.There moments together were really heartfelt and surprisingly similar to my rel'p with a best friend.The chapter with Stanley's history was a bit of a chore to read,but once you understand his role in the story,it makes sense.Great Green Arrow story all around and I'm looking forward to Sounds of Violence next.

How was Meltzer's run anyways?

Still have to read Mythology,The DC Art of Alex Ross and Superman Secret Identity.

 

[yenaled]

Meltzer's Green Arrow is 800 times better than Kevin Smiths.

I also think you will plesantly surprised by Secret Identity, it's an odd story but works so well on many levels.