Bought / Thought July 19 2007.

[Darthphere]

Nay!

Yea!

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Nevah!

 

[PhotoJones]

Yeah, like I said, I win, the other guy loses. The Red Skull that shows up on panel is actually Lukin. Hence the inherent paradoxical existential situation that presents itself in the comic. We're saying the same thing PJ, I just used the wrong phrasing.

Hmm...wrong phrasing? Wrong statement is more like it. You said yourself, "the Red Skull hasn't been in the Cap comic since the first issue," and that "it's all in Lukin's mind". That's a far cry from being the Red Skull being the villian behind everything and hiding inside the body of someone else.

So no, we're not saying the same thing at all.

 

[Darthphere]

Hmm...wrong phrasing? Wrong statement is more like it. You said yourself, "the Red Skull hasn't been in the Cap comic since the first issue," and that "it's all in Lukin's mind". That's a far cry from being the Red Skull being the villian behind everything and hiding inside the body of someone else.

So no, we're not saying the same thing at all.

Yes, we are.

 

[Darthphere]

Man, Mike Lily's art is delicious.

 

[PhotoJones]

Yes, we are.

Your inability to admit when you're wrong sure makes you look really, really dumb sometimes, dude.

Man, Mike Lily's art is delicious.

And yes, it most certainly is.

 

[Darthphere]

Your inability to admit when you're wrong sure makes you look really, really dumb sometimes, dude.



And yes, it most certainly is.

What do you mean sometimes?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Your inability to admit when you're wrong sure makes you look really, really dumb sometimes, dude.

I was thinking he had caught a little Dacman on him as he was coming in...

 

[Darthphere]

I was thinking he had caught a little Dacman on him as he was coming in...

The sad thing is, DACMAN actually uses facts, and he has what seems like an endless amount of scans at his disposal to back up almost all of his arguments. He's just an annoying fanboy who can be an ******* most of the time, ok, all the time.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

The sad thing is, DACMAN actually uses facts, and he has what seems like an endless amount of scans at his disposal to back up almost all of his arguments. He's just an annoying fanboy who can be an ******* most of the time, ok, all the time.

Yeah but the thing about Dac is he'll pick and choose portions of the scan.

He'll tell you 2+2=5 and when you tell him it equals 4 he'll post

2+2= and then rub it in your face about how badly he pwned you.

To give credit where credit is due, for my money I thought this was an absolutely brilliant imitation:

"OMG! I told you guys, all of the haters, I told you SPider-Man would web swing! I told you, HAHAHAHAHAHA, OMG pwned!!111q1"

 

[PhotoJones]

What do you mean sometimes?

Good point. All the time, it is.

 

[Darthphere]

Good point. All the time, it is.

Damn, you do know that I get insulted when I'm not insulted correctly.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Mystic Arcana: Black Knight: The cover was misleading, as Dread pointed out, since that Black Knight appears to be Dane in modified armor, but the interior features the medieval Black Knight, Sir Percy of Scandia. Unlike Dread, however, I didn't mind. I like reading just about anything that pertains to the Black Knight or his legacy, so reading this issue was like, say, reading an Immortal Iron Fist issue dedicated to an ancient Iron Fist would be to just about everyone else on these boards. Sir Percy's rise and fall is documented here, and it's pretty interesting. I didn't know about the conflict between his parents' chosen religions--his mother the leader of a druid coven, his father a presumably Christian knight dedicated to stamping the pagans out. The stuff with Gwynn was particularly interesting; if they ever give Dane Whitman a mini-series or something, I hope Percy meets up with him as Gwynn's avatar or whatever he is now. The crux of the plot--that Percy was the last holdout from Camelot and was, in fact, destined to choose whether Camelot would live on or die with him, was an interesting twist. I'm kind of sad it was all stuffed into this one issue, as it might've made a really interesting mini-series, but on the other hand, Thomas worked everything together in a way that felt really full and satisfying without feeling rushed. The stuff with Morgan La Fey and Ian McNee was all right as well, but it felt really tacked on this time around. At least in Magik's one-shot, McNee's quest was actually worked into elements of the story. Here, McNee merely shows up to get something that happens to be around the same area and time period of Percy's story. Overall, I thought it was a good story about Sir Percy but didn't fit too well into the Mystic Arcana story as a whole. Hopefully whatever McNee's backstory leads to in the Mystic Arcana mini-series itself will take place in the present and Dane can be the Black Knight involved in that.

Roy Thomas is kind of hit-or-miss on the writing--some pseudo-poetic lines come across well, others feel very clunky, like he was just slapping together words he thought would comfortably fit with the phrase "ye olde" in front of them. The art, on the other hand, is scrumptious all the way through. Tom Grummett was good on Thunderbolts and Superboy and Robin, but he's stepped his game up to a whole new level here. The level of detail is fantastic and, between this and many scenes from Baron Zemo: Born Better, I'm now convinced that Grummett was born to draw medieval scenery. If he could stop giving everyone cute li'l button noses and chipmunk-cheeks, I'd nominate him to succeed Coipel on Thor.

 

[PhotoJones]

Damn, you do know that I get insulted when I'm not insulted correctly.

I'll try to be more conscience of how I choose to insult you next time.

The art, on the other hand, is scrumptious all the way through. Tom Grummett was good on Thunderbolts and Superboy and Robin, but he's stepped his game up to a whole new level here. The level of detail is fantastic and, between this and many scenes from Baron Zemo: Born Better, I'm now convinced that Grummett was born to draw medieval scenery. If he could stop giving everyone cute li'l button noses and chipmunk-cheeks, I'd nominate him to succeed Coipel on Thor.

I completely agree with you about Grummet. He's made me a fan of his again, and I can't wait to see what he does next.

 

[Darthphere]

I'll try to be more conscience of how I choose to insult you next time.

That's all I ask.

 

[PhotoJones]

Did anyone pick up The Programme?

 

[Darthphere]

Did anyone pick up The Programme?

It was in my hand, but it had wait for the trade written all over it.

 

[gildea]

(as Bendis does; good lord, some issues of USM all but screamed of Bagley's boredom).

Yes.

The second longest unbroken creative run in marvel history and bagleys glowing praise for bendis in the latest (and bags final) issue. That and bags turning up to do other work with bendis (pulse, alias) whilst still meeting his USM commitments POSTIVELY screams that an aritist is bored with his working partner.

Your insistance on making stuff up/wild assumptions regarding bendis is really damaging the otherwise excellent reviews (particularly when bendis has nothing to do with the issue).

Anyway completely agree with your review otherwise.




One point I would observe about WWH it seems to me like pak has far more creative freedom than millar did (odd really, because millar arugably works better with less) with CW and I'm wondering if that's making a difference here.

 

[PhotoJones]

It was in my hand, but it had wait for the trade written all over it.

Milligan's hit or miss with me, but I've always dug C.P. Smith. I totally forgot about it yesterday at the shop...

 

[Dread]

Super-Villian Team-Up: MODOK'S 11 #1 - Hmm...not as good as I'd have hoped, but still completely enjoyable and fun to look at. The premise isn't original, but the goofy tone makes up for it. I think it was Dread who mentioned it's hard to really take a character design like MODOK seriously anyway, and that seems to be the whole, point of the mini. The art is pretty good. Portela's pencils mixed with Guru-EFX's colors are like a poor man's McNiven/Hollowell, which means it's better looking than the artwork in a lot Marvel or DC's books. Not a bad effort, and I'll be picking up the rest of the series.

I recall mentioning that opinion once or twice. MODOK'S 11 isn't the best thing out there, but it was enjoyable, and it features supervillains without simply ripping off mafia movies/TV shows for the 100th time like UNDERWORLD, so I'm aboard.

MODOK is played straight, but the writer does that for a bit of humor, so it works. I do like how his speach patterns switch from "made for computing" to "made for killing" sometimes, since that shift was his own. I mean MODOK could have some "Dr. Evil"-esque appeal.

[ Unlike Dread, however, I didn't mind. I like reading just about anything that pertains to the Black Knight or his legacy, so reading this issue was like, say, reading an Immortal Iron Fist issue dedicated to an ancient Iron Fist would be to just about everyone else on these boards.

The art, on the other hand, is scrumptious all the way through. Tom Grummett was good on Thunderbolts and Superboy and Robin, but he's stepped his game up to a whole new level here. The level of detail is fantastic and, between this and many scenes from Baron Zemo: Born Better, I'm now convinced that Grummett was born to draw medieval scenery. If he could stop giving everyone cute li'l button noses and chipmunk-cheeks, I'd nominate him to succeed Coipel on Thor.

Was that a dig because I am skeptical about IMMORTAL IRON FIST #7 that interupts a fast paced Rand story with filler about some ancient pirate woman who was Iron Fist? I don't doubt that issue will be readable, I just question breaking up the flow. Sometimes filler stories are made to weave into the current one so they don't seem as random. Sometimes they don't.

I do agree on the art, though; Grummett was very good. I second that choice to replace Coipel on THOR, or to fill in for him. In fact, it makes so much sense...it will never happen.

Yes.

The second longest unbroken creative run in marvel history and bagleys glowing praise for bendis in the latest (and bags final) issue. That and bags turning up to do other work with bendis (pulse, alias) whilst still meeting his USM commitments POSTIVELY screams that an aritist is bored with his working partner.

Your insistance on making stuff up/wild assumptions regarding bendis is really damaging the otherwise excellent reviews (particularly when bendis has nothing to do with the issue).

Anyway completely agree with your review otherwise.




One point I would observe about WWH it seems to me like pak has far more creative freedom than millar did (odd really, because millar arugably works better with less) with CW and I'm wondering if that's making a difference here.

What I meant was that Bagley is an artist who is at his best during hyper-kinetic action scenes. 60% of his time on USM was doing...talking. There are some writers who alter their style to reflect the strengths of their artists, and seeing how many great "action" artists have at times turned in routine "convo" work for his stories, Bendis isn't one of them.

Pak likely has more freedom because WWH is smaller in scale than CW (about half as many tie-in's/chapters), the story doesn't fundamentally alter the status quo of all of Marvel Comics, and he is a different sort of writer. He also had a year on the core Hulk title to work on this, whereas Millar was doing CW out of the blue after, what, some stints on WOLVERINE or MK SPIDER-MAN that didn't relate to the story much at all? And like I said, Pak is a different sort of writer; he can deliver on breakneck action, but also on more subtle character moments. He's had his misfires, true, but so far this isn't one of them.

The irony is that while WWH is a much simplier, more Hollywood-blockbuster type story than CW was, Pak is showing some more subtle care with it than Millar and others did with CW. While Pak obviously wants us to understand why Hulk is attacking and even relate to him at times, he does show off that Hulk can be a monster who cannot be appeased, consumed by anger, and that sometimes his allies see him either through rose colored glasses or as THEY want to see him. All without making Hulk into an outright villain (at least in terms of the audience; the Marvel civilian will still see him as one, as they usually have). And on the flipside, Pak doesn't deny that the Illuminati made errors or did shifty things, but isn't having them be backstabbers and is showcasing Marvel's heroes actually uniting and trying to put aside bitter rivalries for the common good.

 

[Darthphere]

Milligan's hit or miss with me, but I've always dug C.P. Smith. I totally forgot about it yesterday at the shop...

Milligan is mostly miss with me. But that's usually when he's handling company characters.

 

[PhotoJones]

I recall mentioning that opinion once or twice. MODOK'S 11 isn't the best thing out there, but it was enjoyable, and it features supervillains without simply ripping off mafia movies/TV shows for the 100th time like UNDERWORLD, so I'm aboard.

MODOK is played straight, but the writer does that for a bit of humor, so it works. I do like how his speach patterns switch from "made for computing" to "made for killing" sometimes, since that shift was his own. I mean MODOK could have some "Dr. Evil"-esque appeal.

My only confusion is where, how and if the other MODOKs come into play. This one is obviously the original George Tarleton version, but I thought he was dead. And while I don't keep up with Ms. Marvel, I know that she's been fighting an incarnation of MODOK as well. The bio in the back of this issue suggests that she was in fact battling the original Tarleton MODOK that this mini features. That left me wondering how he came back and if the other MODOKs would get a mention...

Milligan is mostly miss with me. But that's usually when he's handling company characters.

I'll go along with that.

 

[gildea]

What I meant was that Bagley is an artist who is at his best during hyper-kinetic action scenes. 60% of his time on USM was doing...talking. There are some writers who alter their style to reflect the strengths of their artists, and seeing how many great "action" artists have at times turned in routine "convo" work for his stories, Bendis isn't one of them.

Dunno though i'd possibly agree bagleys strength is in action his "talking" issues in USM are largely fantastic. Really, his ability to make characters emote and his panel flow and angle choice is really (apparently) underated.

Take the latest issue for example the variety of facial expressions in multiple panels is excellent. Many other artists bendis works with would simply have had repeat panels in there, but bagley drew a different face and related expression for every panel.

Bagley is a superhero artist, but it causes people to underrate some of his finer work (not saying you are) but he effort he put into the conversation issues is definitely not a sign of boredom in his work.

Pak likely has more freedom because WWH is smaller in scale than CW (about half as many tie-in's/chapters), the story doesn't fundamentally alter the status quo of all of Marvel Comics, and he is a different sort of writer. He also had a year on the core Hulk title to work on this, whereas Millar was doing CW out of the blue after, what, some stints on WOLVERINE or MK SPIDER-MAN that didn't relate to the story much at all? And like I said, Pak is a different sort of writer; he can deliver on breakneck action, but also on more subtle character moments. He's had his misfires, true, but so far this isn't one of them.

The irony is that while WWH is a much simplier, more Hollywood-blockbuster type story than CW was, Pak is showing some more subtle care with it than Millar and others did with CW. While Pak obviously wants us to understand why Hulk is attacking and even relate to him at times, he does show off that Hulk can be a monster who cannot be appeased, consumed by anger, and that sometimes his allies see him either through rose colored glasses or as THEY want to see him. All without making Hulk into an outright villain (at least in terms of the audience; the Marvel civilian will still see him as one, as they usually have). And on the flipside, Pak doesn't deny that the Illuminati made errors or did shifty things, but isn't having them be backstabbers and is showcasing Marvel's heroes actually uniting and trying to put aside bitter rivalries for the common good.

Agreed.

 

[Dread]

My only confusion is where, how and if the other MODOKs come into play. This one is obviously the original George Tarleton version, but I thought he was dead. And while I don't keep up with Ms. Marvel, I know that she's been fighting an incarnation of MODOK as well. The bio in the back of this issue suggests that she was in fact battling the original Tarleton MODOK that this mini features. That left me wondering how he came back and if the other MODOKs would get a mention...

I agree, there were continuity blips. Some of us mentioned Purple Man before, essentially doing the same thing that Whedon had Kingpin do in RUNAWAYS. The speediness of Armadillo going from Ranger to "D-List goon once again" was almost unrealistic even for a giant armadillo-man. Not perfect, but still looking to be solid fun.

Dunno though i'd possibly agree bagleys strength is in action his "talking" issues in USM are largely fantastic. Really, his ability to make characters emote and his panel flow and angle choice is really (apparently) underated.

Take the latest issue for example the variety of facial expressions in multiple panels is excellent. Many other artists bendis works with would simply have had repeat panels in there, but bagley drew a different face and related expression for every panel.

Bagley is a superhero artist, but it causes people to underrate some of his finer work (not saying you are) but he effort he put into the conversation issues is definitely not a sign of boredom in his work.

I didn't see the latest issue; I departed USM in disgust at the end of CLONE SAGA, and some posters felt I should've left sooner. From reviews and book-flippings, I don't regret my decision. The book was crippled by Bendis seemingly running in circles with plots and depicting the star hero as a gutless, helpless feeb. Bagley at times displayed rushed work, but being able to provide over 100 monthly (and sometimes twice-monthly) issues on time in this day and age is an incredible achievement. I can count on one hand the artists who can be counted on for monthly work, and Bags is one of 'em.

I don't know, I just made that comment because sometimes Bendis is paired with artists who really excell at action and he rarely caters to that. Compare that to, say, Loeb, who catered to Jim Lee for HUSH and provided a story that wasn't the best, but at least looked incredible.

 

[PhotoJones]

I agree, there were continuity blips. Some of us mentioned Purple Man before, essentially doing the same thing that Whedon had Kingpin do in RUNAWAYS. The speediness of Armadillo going from Ranger to "D-List goon once again" was almost unrealistic even for a giant armadillo-man. Not perfect, but still looking to be solid fun.

Armadillo not being in the Rangers anymore didn't bother me. I could've sworn I've seen him in another book commenting on how hero-work wasn't his thing.