Bought/Thought Thread 11-14-2007 SPOILER ALERT!

Yeah, Bendis tried that with Electro way back in the first arc, and everyone got pissed at how easily Stark beat him.

The internet fans will complain no matter WHICH way the story goes.

Guaranteed. :yay:

Ummm yeah, Electro >>>>>> The freaking Hood.
 
Ummm yeah, Electro >>>>>> The freaking Hood.

Plus, someone who solo'd Nate Grey and controls ALL electricity should never be beaten that easily by Ironman, who jobs to e.m.p.s like cockroaches get sprayed.
 
Iron Man is funny about that. Most of his armor's show heavy resistance to EMP and electrical assault (the latter usually just feeding his armor, and returning it as some form of attack), and in another issue, a bolt of lightning kills his systems. I like technology that takes steps backward in it's evolution.

Either way, if Iron Man was smart enough to build an armor that literally kept building on his former armors, with their general abilities in tow, then Electro really shouldn't be a problem, as there are several electrical tricks that could be played back and forth, or just suck up his juice and disperse it as pulse bolts (where did those go, anyway?), however, such is not the case. (Chameleon mode, gone?)
 
Avengers: The Initiative #7
Just chiming in to say how I totally called the Scarlet Spiders being clones. Boo yah!

Slott more or less unmasking Spider-Man here is noteworthy. It's also, unfortunately, about as contrived as Matt Murdock not "officially" being Daredevil and the idiot masses of the Marvel universe buying into it, and it is also complete bullsht at least on the part of JJ Jameson because of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #23. Of course Spidey's continuity is barely coherent on its own, much less Jameson's schizophrenic characterization, so it's not as much Slott's fault as it is just more par for our course.

(7.1 out of 10)

At least 2 out of every 3 readers figured they were clones or LMD's (same as clones, really) since the beginning. I'm not saying I did, just saying.

What Slott did was bring in "reasonable doubt" to the Parker identity. Even that scan you showed doesn't undo it. The Scarlet Spiders claimed that the government created nanobot costumes of Spider-Man that can mimic any costume or clothing, and induce powers. They claimed that Peter was merely one of them, and not THE Spider-Man, and that he was being "decommissioned". As Betty noted, Peter and Spider-Man have always seemed to share a relationship. Of course, that is because they are the same person. But the Scarlet Spider bit shifted it into "universally known" to "widely suspected" so Peter could actually have a life again with civilians in ASM when Slott takes over. For Daredevil it took a few years; for Spidey, about 1 year.

The idea suggested is Peter unmasking to the public was him "following orders" from the squad of Spider-Men and/or doing Spidey yet another "favor", like taking his photos for years or showing up to save his girlfriends. There will be some who buy it, and some who don't, and some who aren't sure. Like I said, exactly like Daredevil. Some people believe he is Murdock and some don't. The only problem is Murdock actively attempted to provide misinformation, whereas Peter was unmasking and responding to "Parker!" ever since CW #2. The fact that the Scarlet Spiders changed costumes so they were all in Spidey's 3 best known suits quietly lets into the equation the idea that every time Spider-Man "changed" his costume, it may've just been another agent filling in, or several operating at once (to explain how he has adventures all across NY, or even in other states/countries during the first volume of Marvel Team-Up), least in the eyes of the public.

But, really, would you have rather Loki came back, went "bippity-boppity-boo" and undid the whole shebang?

Actually I would have. I hate every superhero calling him Parker. I liked some of that mystique. But, this is a step in the right direction, setting up Slott's own ASM run. And it isn't as cheesy as a magic/psychic brainwashing to undo identity knowledge. Hell, they did that with Iron Man and it didn't last long.
 
Iron Man is funny about that. Most of his armor's show heavy resistance to EMP and electrical assault (the latter usually just feeding his armor, and returning it as some form of attack), and in another issue, a bolt of lightning kills his systems. I like technology that takes steps backward in it's evolution.

Either way, if Iron Man was smart enough to build an armor that literally kept building on his former armors, with their general abilities in tow, then Electro really shouldn't be a problem, as there are several electrical tricks that could be played back and forth, or just suck up his juice and disperse it as pulse bolts (where did those go, anyway?), however, such is not the case. (Chameleon mode, gone?)


I never understood that either. Especially since Ironman has anti-magnetic armor, like the kind he deployed against the Collective. But I still doubt that Ironman could easily take Electro. Trying to absorb his electricity would just give Electro a way in to his systems, that is if he couldn't already mess with them being based on electrical currents. I'm not sure what energy source his suit uses though so I'm not so sure how Electro would deal with that, though I know he could fend off Nate Grey's psi-bolts so repulsar rays shouldn't be too hard. But reguardless of how the fight would go I just don't ever see it being that easy for Stark to pull off, especially not by putting him in a bubble.


Really? Electro has gotten spanked by Daredevil.

The Hood beat Wolverine.

What's funny is Wolverine actually mentioned being beat by the Hood like it meant something to Dr.Strange, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Clint Barton, Spider-man, and... well them.:yay:
 
Actaully, given Electro's very nature, a constantly changing field of energy that IM can project, as well with his repulsor rays could potentially -annihilate- Electro.
 
Thor #4

After skipping last month's issue I jump back in. Thor in Africa? A little boring, felt a little bit too much like some kind of after school special. Except with Thor kicking genocidal butt. So there's that. Good to see more Asgardians but I want to see something of a story arc to begin. All we've got is Thor flying around finding his friends. We need Loki or something to get things moving along.

3/5
Yeah, actually having a villain would be nice. I don't mind so much for this arc, since the point of this first arc literally is for Thor to fly around finding his friends--in effect, to rebuild his life. But the next arc, JMS needs to step it up, especially if Coipel is going to be giving us month-long delays between issues that, honestly, don't feel all that fulfilling individually.
The Wrecker is one of Thor's oldest rogues. I can see him putting aside his differences with Stark in order to take the Wrecker down, especially with his old team mates all apparently working together again...
If this were Thor before he died, I'd wholeheartedly agree. Now, though, I'm not so sure. He seems less concerned with being proactive and taking down supervillains than with trying to help people directly, either as Thor or Blake. He's interacted more with normal humans in these past few issues than he has in months-long stretches of his comics before. This seems to be a newly refocused Thor, who's more concerned with people than with fighting villains. He'll defend people, but I don't know if he'd drop everything to take down an old nemesis, let alone do it with his chief betrayer.

I still think it's an illusion from Strange, though. That's Strange's whole M.O. now.
 
I just want to say Corp, the end of Portal is the funniest ending in the history of gaming :p
 
It very well may be. :D

Probably the funniest boss battle in the history of gaming, too. "Did you see that thing that just fell off of me? What is that thing?"
 
Yeah, actually having a villain would be nice. I don't mind so much for this arc, since the point of this first arc literally is for Thor to fly around finding his friends--in effect, to rebuild his life. But the next arc, JMS needs to step it up, especially if Coipel is going to be giving us month-long delays between issues that, honestly, don't feel all that fulfilling individually.

If this were Thor before he died, I'd wholeheartedly agree. Now, though, I'm not so sure. He seems less concerned with being proactive and taking down supervillains than with trying to help people directly, either as Thor or Blake. He's interacted more with normal humans in these past few issues than he has in months-long stretches of his comics before. This seems to be a newly refocused Thor, who's more concerned with people than with fighting villains. He'll defend people, but I don't know if he'd drop everything to take down an old nemesis, let alone do it with his chief betrayer.

I still think it's an illusion from Strange, though. That's Strange's whole M.O. now.

It has to be an illusion. Anything else would be pretty stupid for the next issue. I mean Silver Surfer, Sentry, Thor, and the rest are all going to be fighting The Hoods street level gang and the wrecking crew? Overkill city.
 
Just got my eBay purchase of Hawkman #28 to 36,the uncollected Graymiotti issues.

I'm already missing the Rags art and Geoff's writing,but the more action oriented approach is something I don't mind.

Speaking of Sook,is he back with DC again?
 
He's not doing anything right now, as far as I've seen. The last thing I remember seeing his art on is X-Factor.
It has to be an illusion. Anything else would be pretty stupid for the next issue. I mean Silver Surfer, Sentry, Thor, and the rest are all going to be fighting The Hoods street level gang and the wrecking crew? Overkill city.
Well, Bendis seems to think Dr. Strange can't lift a plane and a guy who can turn invisible for about a minute at a time is hot ****, so who knows?
 
What Slott did was bring in "reasonable doubt" to the Parker identity. Even that scan you showed doesn't undo it. The Scarlet Spiders claimed that the government created nanobot costumes of Spider-Man that can mimic any costume or clothing, and induce powers. They claimed that Peter was merely one of them, and not THE Spider-Man, and that he was being "decommissioned". As Betty noted, Peter and Spider-Man have always seemed to share a relationship. Of course, that is because they are the same person. But the Scarlet Spider bit shifted it into "universally known" to "widely suspected" so Peter could actually have a life again with civilians in ASM when Slott takes over. For Daredevil it took a few years; for Spidey, about 1 year.
I didn't say that FNSM#23 undid anything, I said that FNSM#23 made it bullsht. For Peter and Jameson to finally -- finally -- have this kind significant and deserved confrontation after all these years that was written as meaningfully as only Peter David could write it, and then a few months later some other writer who obviously wasn't aware of the exchange just comes along and makes it sound like so much hot air? Sloppy at best. Bullsht at worst. You can't tell me that this Jameson from Initiative #7 going "Hay wait guyz, maybe Parker's not Spider-Man...?" is the same Jameson who, not so long ago, just had one of the most humanizing and insightful dialogues he's ever had with Peter...and Spider-Man. The two depictions simply do not complement each other.

But, of course, this is JJ Jameson...the single most inconsistently-portrayed caricature (not character) in all of comics. For every step of progress and depth and possible closure that a writer might make on him -- whether it's PAD or Heinberg or even JMS -- we can rest assured that another writer will come along and push him five steps back into ranting bipolar-dom. So I'm not blaming Slott*. He probably, honestly had no idea that a scene like that was ever written, and no one else bothered to tell him 'cause Buffy knows no one at Marvel seems tells each other anything. This is, as I said, just another par for the course Wednesday in the Spideyverse; the "meta" status quo, so to speak

*Though I will point out that Slott's Jameson also exhibited this sort of exaggerated buffoonery during his She-Hulk run, obviously for comedic effect, which also often contradicts prior Jameson portrayals. So it seems part of the problem is that a lot of writers simply don't or won't take Jameson seriously as a character, and Slott is one of them.
 
Just got my eBay purchase of Hawkman #28 to 36,the uncollected Graymiotti issues.

I'm already missing the Rags art and Geoff's writing,but the more action oriented approach is something I don't mind.

Speaking of Sook,is he back with DC again?

Hawkman #28-31 (Fate's Warning) - Tragic tale to say the least.I was skeptical of the Graymiotti run following the Rags/Johns combo,but this opening arc doesn't skip a beat while keeping the stories rooted in St.Roch and the history of the Hawks.Solid story,a shame it's not collected in trade.

Hawkman #32-36 - A series of done in ones and the opening salvo to ROTGE.Ray has been put to such great use since the start of the series,him and Carter are probably my fav of the buddy rel'ps in the DCU.The Kendra/Carter rel'p is written very naturally in these issues.They kiss,they argue,they bond without feeling overly sappy.Along with the great characterization,there's enough action to swing a mace at.Hawkman's berserker rages are always fun to read,without a doubt one of the coolest looking and most ass kicking heroes of the DC pantheon.

I find it very odd that #35-36 were not collected in the ROTGE trade,they pretty much act as the opening acts to the story,but whatever,I'm going to be picking it up anyways.

From Johns/Rags to Graymiotti and Co,this 45 issue run on Hawkman is an underrated classic and deserves the highest praise.
 
I didn't say that FNSM#23 undid anything, I said that FNSM#23 made it bullsht. For Peter and Jameson to finally -- finally -- have this kind significant and deserved confrontation after all these years that was written as meaningfully as only Peter David could write it, and then a few months later some other writer who obviously wasn't aware of the exchange just comes along and makes it sound like so much hot air? Sloppy at best. Bullsht at worst. You can't tell me that this Jameson from Initiative #7 going "Hay wait guyz, maybe Parker's not Spider-Man...?" is the same Jameson who, not so long ago, just had one of the most humanizing and insightful dialogues he's ever had with Peter...and Spider-Man. The two depictions simply do not complement each other.

But, of course, this is JJ Jameson...the single most inconsistently-portrayed caricature (not character) in all of comics. For every step of progress and depth and possible closure that a writer might make on him -- whether it's PAD or Heinberg or even JMS -- we can rest assured that another writer will come along and push him five steps back into ranting bipolar-dom. So I'm not blaming Slott*. He probably, honestly had no idea that a scene like that was ever written, and no one else bothered to tell him 'cause Buffy knows no one at Marvel seems tells each other anything. This is, as I said, just another par for the course Wednesday in the Spideyverse; the "meta" status quo, so to speak

*Though I will point out that Slott's Jameson also exhibited this sort of exaggerated buffoonery during his She-Hulk run, obviously for comedic effect, which also often contradicts prior Jameson portrayals. So it seems part of the problem is that a lot of writers simply don't or won't take Jameson seriously as a character, and Slott is one of them.

Even Sam Raimi doesn't take J.J. seriously; the character mostly exists for laughs in the movie franchise. GOOD laughs, but laughs.

The only problem with scenes like that PAD one, and many of the ones post-Unmasking, is they write things into a corner. After you get the initial "confrontation" stories out of the way, seeing how Parker's few remaining cast members react to the reveal, there is literally NOTHING ELSE TO DO. Nothing. J.J., as you said, has been stuck in a rut since, really, the 60's. He exists to be that one omnipresent media figure that will never accept Spider-Man, no matter what he does, that ultimate cynic. Of course, the effect that one newspaper has in NY has deteriorated in recent years; the NY POST preaches plenty of pro-Republican, Pro-Bush stuff, but hardly anyone takes it seriously. The NEW YORK TIMES, on the other hand, is taken SO seriously that even what it is dead wrong, people buy it. The BUGLE has never been played up as being as vital as the NYT for some time now. Still, attempts have sometimes been made to have J.J.'s empire branch out; TV news stuff, that sort of thing (the 90's cartoon had him have a TV news station, for instance).

And that is why the "Unmasking" has to be scaled back at least somewhat, because it is a narrative dead end, especially for Spider-Man, a character who once thrived on the soap opera turmoil of his superhero life mingling with his civilian one. He's had virtually ZERO civilian life for the past 5 or so years. No friends, no neighbors, no school teacher collegues, nothing but his aunt, his wife, and the Avengers. THAT has been far more damaging to Spider-Man than his marriage was, but Marvel fails to see that, and probably always will.

When DARDEVIL's identity, after about 2-3 years or so, was scaled back from "universally known" to "widely suspected" by Brubaker, giving that leeway so people could do straight-forward DD stories again, I knew that it was inevitable that Spider-Man would get that treatment. Because if Parker's identity remains known, then he is either a fugitive or a celebrity, and NOT a "common man" with a civilian social life; he essentially becomes something like The Flash, and not even The Flash kept a universally known ID for a long time.

Plus, look at it this way; at least that PAD story wasn't undone by a retcon; Slott did it in current time. THE DEATH OF GWEN STACY, on the other hand, has been rendered almost COMICAL due to retcons and resurrections.
 
And this lack of closure and progress, coupled with the fact that any one scene that any writer writes at any given point could at any second be rendered invalid or inconsequential, is arguably the single biggest problem about Western serialized comics. We're all aware of this; it's no big secret.



Thor #4
So far it's still working for me. I can see this "JMS becomes the Judd Winick of social poverty!" nonsense getting really old, really quickly, but the actual writing and story of this series is just so effective.

It's such a silly thing, and I don't know why it didn't occur to me earlier, but with this issue I seriously just realized how big of a weakness this whole Donald Blake deal could be. The Marvel family only needs to utter a word, Wonder Woman can apparently transform at will, and even the Green Lanterns can call their rings by thought. If Donald Blake doesn't have his clunky stick which is awkward and ill-fitting and highly conspicuous to carry around, he is very seriously not Thor. He's just some random hobbled doctor who may or may not possess an ounce of combat-training depending on whether he has Thor's experience in this form or not. The Thor of my memory is the Jurgens Thor who obviously didn't have this problem, and I'm beginning to wonder just how frequently this must have been exploited by his enemies, especially considering how powerful Thor's enemies would have to be.

(8.3 out of 10)


Black Adam #4
It's not quite "more of the same," because that would suggest it was being stale or static. It is, however, "more of the same" in that it yet again features Black Adam being more badass beyond the measure of words to describe and about as much bloody violence per square panel as any Garth Ennis comic...but without the pretentiousness.

And, really, it's so much more fun seeing Black Adam pull a man through the mesosphere than it is seeing, oh I dunno, Superboy-Prime do it 'cause the irritation factor is so much less.

(8.8 out of 10)


New Avengers #36
Hnn. Not nearly the most horrible issue of New Avengers you'll find, but it is still rather weak and jilting. I was yawning my way through the Luke/Jessica conversation as well as the Logan/Jessica one. Just...what is the point? What are we even doing?

I do have to give marginal props to the fact that this issue may very well mark the very first time that Bendis actually has heroes doing something heroic...like, y'know, not fighting each other in the middle of the streets. It does read somewhat forced, and there's a hint of Bendis once again merely trying to appease people too late on issues that should have been addressed far sooner (Spider-Woman flying and Hawkeye's resurrection, for instance). But then again, Bendis was one of the several writers at Marvel who, right from the outset, had no ambiguity whatsoever about the moral content of the SHRA; he depicted it as flat-out wrong, no questions asked, the end thankyouverymuch. It feels a bit more natural for him, in this New Avengers book of all things, to be directly declaring that "dismantling the SHRA is A Heroic Thing" than it might feel in another circumstance from another writer.

(5.9 out of 10)


Salvation Run #1
Dear DCU,
Here's a clue:
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. It is, at the least, as practical a solution as what you're doing here what with sending people to another planet without any manner of process at all, due or otherwise. Still, my social ire is somewhat alleviated by the fact that all this is being done by a clandestine operation with obviously no ties to any official governming body whatsoever. But then again, this is Rick Flag of all people spouting this nonsense, trying to make this whole thing sound as if it were actual acceptable behavior on any level. No, dude. No.

And then I remember Willingham is writing this, and I nod understandingly.

Oh, and of course Darkseid would be behind everything:rolleyes:. Thanks, Countdown! Man.

For all that I whine, the writing here is quite good. Willy has a good handle on the Rogues and their personalities and it is rather fitting that the single most organized villain group out there would be the ones to effectively organize the villains on this planet. Not the Society (who knows if it's even still around), not the cartoony Injustice League that McGuffie has cooked up, but the Rogues. It's big props, and these bastards do deserve it.

(6.6 out of 10)


X-Factor #25: Messiah Complex Chapter 3
Hmm. I may have to start waiting for the trade on this whole Messiah Complex thingy.

There's nothing wrong here, it's just moving quite slowly. Which is understandable because there's so much material here with so many characters...but because there's so much material, I keep fearing that each new issue is going to make me regret that I'm still following this so closely. I have a feeling that this is going to be a great read, or at least a decent read, when it's all put together. But I don't want to have to be wrong.

But Layla's still awesome, for anyone still keeping track. And Cyclops is getting a really good treatment in this series as well; it's just his year, I guess.

(8 out of 10)
 
Thor #4
So far it's still working for me. I can see this "JMS becomes the Judd Winick of social poverty!" nonsense getting really old, really quickly, but the actual writing and story of this series is just so effective.

It's such a silly thing, and I don't know why it didn't occur to me earlier, but with this issue I seriously just realized how big of a weakness this whole Donald Blake deal could be. The Marvel family only needs to utter a word, Wonder Woman can apparently transform at will, and even the Green Lanterns can call their rings by thought. If Donald Blake doesn't have his clunky stick which is awkward and ill-fitting and highly conspicuous to carry around, he is very seriously not Thor. He's just some random hobbled doctor who may or may not possess an ounce of combat-training depending on whether he has Thor's experience in this form or not. The Thor of my memory is the Jurgens Thor who obviously didn't have this problem, and I'm beginning to wonder just how frequently this must have been exploited by his enemies, especially considering how powerful Thor's enemies would have to be.

(8.3 out of 10)
Donald Blake has always had a limp, so his cane isn't really that conspicuous. His frantically reaching for it if it gets separated from him isn't conspicuous either, since people would just assume he depends on it for stability. The cane is definitely a weakness as far as randomly being killed in human form goes, but that's part of the reason why he makes sure nobody knows Thor and Don Blake are one and the same. Really, as long as he doesn't have the 60-second rule again (where he transforms back into Blake if he's separated from Mjolnir for 60 seconds as Thor), he's not too bad.

But yeah, not having a human side as a weakness at all is how I've mostly been acquainted with Thor, too. Before he lost his Blake side, it was exploited a lot, but more on the writers' side, not on the villains'. As I said, he made sure to keep his dual identity as secret as possible. I think Iron Man was pretty much the only Avenger who ever knew, in fact. Still, I do think Blake adds a nice, honestly human dimension to Thor. He first lost his Blake identity in Simonson's run, and he replaced him with the "human" identity of Sigurd Jarlson, who was basically just Thor with glasses.

Personally, I hope the merger between Thor and Blake is total and they both retain all of their shared knowledge in either form. How cool would it be to see Thor punch someone stronger in a nerve cluster and bring them down, or to see Blake kick someone's ass with Thor's warrior skills? The latter would be a moment as cool as Dr. Strange's non-magic ass-kicking of Nicodemus West in The Oath for me. :up:
 
Iron Man is funny about that. Most of his armor's show heavy resistance to EMP and electrical assault (the latter usually just feeding his armor, and returning it as some form of attack), and in another issue, a bolt of lightning kills his systems. I like technology that takes steps backward in it's evolution.

Either way, if Iron Man was smart enough to build an armor that literally kept building on his former armors, with their general abilities in tow, then Electro really shouldn't be a problem, as there are several electrical tricks that could be played back and forth, or just suck up his juice and disperse it as pulse bolts (where did those go, anyway?), however, such is not the case. (Chameleon mode, gone?)

Don't you remember "Back to the Future" a lighting bolt is a huge amount of energy... much more than an EMP. Being hit directly by one realistically should take down almost anything.
 
Really? Electro has gotten spanked by Daredevil.

The Hood beat Wolverine. :yay:
Yeah, and DD has rocked the s**t out of Wolverine, so I think the pecking order goes

DD > The Hood > Electro > Wolverine:o
 
Spider-girl #14--

Arana is in M2 continuity now with matured body parts. Nuff said. I'd give the ish an 8/10.

This is actually her second appearance. She first appeared in the MC2 in the Spider-Man Family Summer Special. It was actually a pretty fun story that even incorporated Spider-Ham.

And yeah, adult Arana is a hottie.
 

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