Rise of the Silver Surfer BOX OFFICE Discussion

[X-Maniac]

Bishop its a phenomena that no one has been able to explain.....BUT OH WAIT......you will read reviews here that gave it A's, B's etc, and in 6 months....IF there is a 3rd....and we are all still here......some of those people will suddenly change and flip the other direction, again.........a phenomena I cannot explain, nor do I understand......

Bishop2 and The Albafan, the answer is obvious: For all the movie's entertainment value and its wonderfully achieved Silver Surfer, it just doesn't have enough depth or substance or subtlety.

An Extended Cut has made the first one more watchable because it has more in it to notice, take in, add to the story.

The second one was much better than the first (either original or extended) but it still whizzed by too quickly and was a little superficial and lacking in mood, drama and emotion. Doom's early appearances were a series of two-second clips, Galactus's arrival was over with in moments, Sue's death was far too lightweight.

While I enjoyed the film as a FF fan and superhero fan, you can see it doesn't have lasting impact or wide appeal. Fox's history with X-Men, Eragon, etc, shows what is going on. They are making 'one-night stands' not lasting relationships, microwave meals rather than divine dinners!

 

[Bishop2]

Bishop2 and The Albafan, the answer is obvious: For all the movie's entertainment value and its wonderfully achieved Silver Surfer, it just doesn't have enough depth or substance or subtlety.

It's still a personal opinion.

I love many movies that are in the 90-minute range and feel this film is well paced. As soon as the runtime was announced, people starting jumping on it. Frankly, I'd rather have a shorter film than one that feels artificially inflated... which is precisely how the Extended Edition of the first film felt. Too many scenes that SHOULDN'T be there because they were handled poorly or dumb ideas to begin with.

Subtlety? Name me a comic book movie that's filled with subtlety. The only example I can think of is Hulk, and I thought it sucked. This movie wears its emotions and storyline on its sleeve, just like the X-Men and Spider-Man films do. Although thankfully it contains 100% less weeping than Spider-Man.

So why do people suddenly seem more negative around here? I figure there's a backlash and there's a bandwagon, basically.

Bishop2, I still for the most part like this movie, but with all this Mark Frost/Avi Arad nonsense I'm very worried about the sequel.

What gave you the impression that they'd be involved in any sort of third movie? Mark Frost is a screenwriter for hire. Arad left Marvel Studios. Besides, there's not THAT much nonsense. Just the fact that Frost thinks that a monarch Doom wouldn't work. That's the end of the list.

 

[Grog]

I am as big an FF fan as anyone. I don't understand/respect those that have changed their opinion based on the BO numbers. If you liked the film, you should be independent and respect yourself enough to stand on your own. Frankly, if you like the film you stand with a good majority of the general public who did also.

However, this is a BO thread and it is very fair game to point out that the film is not meeting expectations. Hopefully, the well thought out discussion on why the number are down will lead to a better third film. All indications are that the second was better because of such discussions.

 

[Bishop2]

Honestly, the film is performing somewhat better than I expected.

You make a sequel to a movie that lots of people saw but didn't like, many people aren't going to care HOW good it its - they're not going to bother seeing it.

 

[X-Maniac]

It's still a personal opinion.

I love many movies that are in the 90-minute range and feel this film is well paced. As soon as the runtime was announced, people starting jumping on it. Frankly, I'd rather have a shorter film than one that feels artificially inflated... which is precisely how the Extended Edition of the first film felt. Too many scenes that SHOULDN'T be there because they were handled poorly or dumb ideas to begin with.

Subtlety? Name me a comic book movie that's filled with subtlety. The only example I can think of is Hulk, and I thought it sucked. This movie wears its emotions and storyline on its sleeve, just like the X-Men and Spider-Man films do. Although thankfully it contains 100% less weeping than Spider-Man.

So why do people suddenly seem more negative around here? I figure there's a backlash and there's a bandwagon, basically.

I know this is the Box Office thread, but my points weren't about the box office. I'm not concerned with the box office. I'm trying to offer an explanation for why people have abandoned this thread/forum already - because there isn't enough to discuss, because the movie didn't include enough to discuss, because it lacked depth and substance in places.

If Spider-Man can get wide appeal, then this franchise can too, even though it will never achieve Spidey/Pirates numbers at the box office. What the FF franchise lacks is a bit of gravitas - it needs less of the hammy, spoofy stuff and probably a big-name heavyweight actor like the X-franchise's McKellen/Stewart/Cox. Not that such an actor would be a guarantee of success (Terence Stamp couldn't save Elektra)...but it might give the franchise a solid anchor and tell the critics that the franchise means business and deserves respect.

PS Go back a page for my response on the Inhumans being done realistically.

 

[Kelly]

Bishop2 and The Albafan, the answer is obvious: For all the movie's entertainment value and its wonderfully achieved Silver Surfer, it just doesn't have enough depth or substance or subtlety.

An Extended Cut has made the first one more watchable because it has more in it to notice, take in, add to the story.

The second one was much better than the first (either original or extended) but it still whizzed by too quickly and was a little superficial and lacking in mood, drama and emotion. Doom's early appearances were a series of two-second clips, Galactus's arrival was over with in moments, Sue's death was far too lightweight.

While I enjoyed the film as a FF fan and superhero fan, you can see it doesn't have lasting impact or wide appeal. Fox's history with X-Men, Eragon, etc, shows what is going on. They are making 'one-night stands' not lasting relationships, microwave meals rather than divine dinners!

In your opinion of course.....


Did it have its problems....yes......and um all I said was "some will change their opinion....it always happens" don't drag me into the good vs. bad debate.......I loved it, and honestly thats the opinion that means the most to me.... I gave my review, and thats pretty much all you'll get out of me......people have their opinions about it and thats cool with me....


But, you HAVE TO look at other factors besides "I think the movie was bad, and thats why the BO, is bad"....because there are several other factors involved here......HAD THIS BEEN THE FIRST MOVIE, and the quality was uped from that....YES we would be looking at a better BO, but still not what it could have been in a full BLOCKBUSTER summer like this one.........and that has been stated very well in this thread....

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^^

dont you relise that because of people like you getting pirate dvd's it means that studios become more involved as that are trying to sell their films with flashy trailers and promos so that people come to the cinema, plus pirate dvd ... what are you 6 cant you affort to pay for the film like a normal person!

Dude, i'm 25 and i have a job i can pay for my own things no problem okay ********? I'm paying money for the pirate DVD for one.

I'm only gonna treat Fox with the same respect they treat the fans, which is like ****.

 

[Kelly]

Dude, then as a 25 year old, you can chill........right?

You don't like Fox, thats cool.........you want to lower yourself to stealing movies, ok........

but talk about it elsewhere....

 

[Spider-Fan]

Dude, i'm 25 and i have a job i can pay for my own things no problem okay ********? I'm paying money for the pirate DVD for one.

I'm only gonna treat Fox with the same respect they treat the fans, which is like ****.

If you want to treat them with no respect, then don't buy/watch the movie at all. You are still paying for a movie someone paid to see.

Bootlegging is not cool, man.

 

[Malus]

Dude, i'm 25 and i have a job i can pay for my own things no problem okay ********? I'm paying money for the pirate DVD for one.

I'm only gonna treat Fox with the same respect they treat the fans, which is like ****.

Theft is theft, period.

I hate Wal-Mart and everything it's done to small business and industry in my country. It's responsible for over 80% of our trade deficit with China. But does that make it okay for me to walk out of Wal-mart with $100 worth of CDs under my shirt?
Of course not.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Bishop2 and The Albafan, the answer is obvious: For all the movie's entertainment value and its wonderfully achieved Silver Surfer, it just doesn't have enough depth or substance or subtlety.

An Extended Cut has made the first one more watchable because it has more in it to notice, take in, add to the story.

The second one was much better than the first (either original or extended) but it still whizzed by too quickly and was a little superficial and lacking in mood, drama and emotion. Doom's early appearances were a series of two-second clips, Galactus's arrival was over with in moments, Sue's death was far too lightweight.

While I enjoyed the film as a FF fan and superhero fan, you can see it doesn't have lasting impact or wide appeal. Fox's history with X-Men, Eragon, etc, shows what is going on. They are making 'one-night stands' not lasting relationships, microwave meals rather than divine dinners!

Though i havent seen this movie, i can pretty much tell from reading this forum that the complaints are same old ones about Fox movies, in which case, i totally agree you X-Maniac, they are not giving us movies that we will be watching in 20 years (IMO anyway), when the potential and possibly the talent was there to do so.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Dude, then as a 25 year old, you can chill........right?

You don't like Fox, thats cool.........you want to lower yourself to stealing movies, ok........

but talk about it elsewhere....

If you want to treat them with no respect, then don't buy/watch the movie at all. You are still paying for a movie someone paid to see.

Bootlegging is not cool, man.

Theft is theft, period.

I hate Wal-Mart and everything it's done to small business and industry in my country. It's responsible for over 80% of our trade deficit with China. But does that make it okay for me to walk out of Wal-mart with $100 worth of CDs under my shirt?
Of course not.

Nothing you guys say will change my mind, its everything Fox deserves IMO, and i'll only do it with Fox movies, so i will just say this, its my money, i'll do what i want with it.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Well if its any consolation, it is getting good reviews. 2nd only to the original...

You consider this good reviews?

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fantastic_four_2_rise_of_the_silver_surfer/

 

[Carp Man]

June 27, 2007

PRELIMINARY: 'Die Hard' w/$8M-$10M Wednesday; 'Live Free' headed for a 5-day of $35M-$42M

by Steve Mason

WEDNESDAY UPDATE (as of 10:30p pacific: In my original column about Live Free or Die Hard (Fox) (see below), I projected a Wednesday number in the $8M-$10M range. I now believe that DH4 will finish the day closer to $8M (maybe even a tick lower). If that number holds up, the film will likely score an estimated 5-day of $34M-$37M and a probable 3-day of $20M-$23M.

Please note: I have a lower-than-usual degree of confidence in my Wednesday number for Die Hard. I’ve gotten some conflicting news from my usual sources.

EXCLUSIVE FANTASY MOGULS EARLY WEDNESDAY ESTIMATES
1. Live Free or Die Hard (Fox) - $8M [$8M cume]
2. Evan Almighty (Universal) - $2.88M [$41.6M cume]
3. 1409 (MGM/Weinstein) - $1.69M [$27.4M cume]
4. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (Fox) – $1.63M [$103.6M cume]

WEDNESDAY UPDATE (as of 10:30p pacific): Live Free or Die Hard (Fox) is off to a solid start, but it’s not headed for the box office stratosphere. One of my studio sources puts the movie’s opening Wednesday at $8M-$10M and another says $8M is the ceiling. If the $8-$10M range holds up, it’s fair to expect $35M-$42M for 5 days and $21.5M-$25M for the 3-day. As recently as yesterday, one of my sources felt that $50M for 5 days was possible and others were forecasting a number in the high $40M's, so this is a step down from those lofty predictions.

After the disappointing opening of Ocean’s Thirteen (Warner Bros) and the disastrous debut of Evan Almighty (Universal), Hollywood’s sure-fire summer has stalled. Back in May, a fair number of box office analysts were calling for $4 billion in sales, topping the all-time record summer of $3.95 billion in 2004. In Bob Tourtellotte’s Tuesday story on Reuters, Brandon Gray from Box Office Mojo says that there’s only a “slim chance” of breaking the all-time summer record, but, in my estimation, the odds could go have gone way up with a meteoric performance by an aging John McClane and the newest Die Hard.

With sure-things like Transformers (Dreamworks/Paramount) and Harry Potter 5 (Warner Bros) on the horizon, it’s not too late for Hollywood to get its gravy train back on track, but it won’t happen now without a breakout success for Ratatouille (Buena Vista), which invades America’s multiplexes Friday (6/29). Unfortunately, that may be an uphill climb even for mighty Pixar. I’ll cover Ratatouille, along with Evening (Focus) and Sicko (Lionsgate/Weinstein), in my Thursday tracking column.

Maybe, we’ve all been expecting too much from old man Bruce Willis and the Die Hard franchise. It’s been almost 2 decades since the original franchise-starter, recently named the best action film of all-time by Entertainment Weekly, and 7 years since Die Hard: With a Vengeance (Die Hard 3). The performance of the first 3 Die Hard films isn’t as strong as you might think.

1988 – Die Hard - $600,000 opening - $83M cume
1990 - Die Hard 2: Die Harder - $21.7M opening - $117.5M cume
1995 - Die Hard with a Vengeance - $22.1M opening - $100M cume

It now appears that Live Free or Die Hard will not be able to outperform its good-but-not-great tracking. The picture has buzz and the reviews are overwhelmingly positive (77% Fresh at Rotten Tomatoes and 71% Favorable at MetaCritic.com). Also in its favor is its PG-13 rating. Kids are out of school and Males Under 25 are the strongest demo in tracking (Definite Interest – 51% and First Choice – 19%). The bottom line is that John McClane is still alive and kicking and performing respectably, but getting this movie to $50M by Monday would be a bigger feat than any of the heroic stunts in Die Hards 1-4.

http://news.fantasymoguls.com/originalcontent/2007/06/preliminary-die.html

 

[Kelly]

Nothing you guys say will change my mind, its everything Fox deserves IMO, so i will just say this, its my money, i'll do what i want with it.

Well thats kind of a duh.........steal on with your bad self.......I just don't need to read you bragging about it......

Don't the places on the internet where you steal the stuff from have forums? Talk about how cool you are for stealing on those sites.


None of us here are happy with Fox, that is VERY obvious.....some are much more upset than you are........so they choose to not see it or buy the dvd, and I respect them a hell of alot more than those that choose to steal it....

And guess what, nothing you say is going to change my mind.....t:

 

[Bishop2]

You consider this good reviews?

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fantastic_four_2_rise_of_the_silver_surfer/

I believe he was talking about Die Hard.

And the original FF got significantly worse reviews.

None of us here are happy with Fox, that is VERY obvious.....

I have no problems with Fox right now. For as much as people trash-talk them, they have a habit of delivering solid product. Out of their 7 Marvel movies, I've loved 3, liked 2 and disliked 2. Not a bad track record.

 

[Kelly]

I can't wait to see "Sicko".......gotta see what all the hoopla is about....lol

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Well thats kind of a duh.........steal on with your bad self.......I just don't need to read you bragging about it......

Don't the places on the internet where you steal the stuff from have forums? Talk about how cool you are for stealing on those sites.


None of us here are happy with Fox, that is VERY obvious.....some are much more upset than you are........so they choose to not see it or buy the dvd, and I respect them a hell of alot more than those that choose to steal it....

And guess what, nothing you say is going to change my mind.....t:

I'm not boasting about it at all, and i'm not stealing it of the Internet either. If you dont respect me fine, just get off my back.

 

[Kelly]

I believe he was talking about Die Hard.

And the original FF got significantly worse reviews.



I have no problems with Fox right now. For as much as people trash-talk them, they have a habit of delivering solid product. Out of their 7 Marvel movies, I've loved 3, liked 2 and disliked 2. Not a bad track record.

I respect your opinion, but you are in the vast minority here........but I'm sure you know that already....

 

[Kelly]

I'm not boasting about it at all, and i'm not stealing it of the Internet either. If you dont respect me fine, just get off my back.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Ha ha fair enough!

 

[Iron Maiden]

Theft is theft, period.

I hate Wal-Mart and everything it's done to small business and industry in my country. It's responsible for over 80% of our trade deficit with China. But does that make it okay for me to walk out of Wal-mart with $100 worth of CDs under my shirt?
Of course not.

I agree... he's supporting theft and it is hypocritical to buy something you claim you don't want to see in the form of a pirated copy. People who buy stolen merchandise, no matter from whom or why, are supporting criminals. IMO piracy in the music industry is the cause of the creative stagnation. Why should an artist produce something so that someone who doesn't want to pay me for my labor can pay some clown who had nothing to do with it instead? Turn the tables on himself and I bet he'd squawk if someone took a chunk of his paycheck away.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I agree... he's supporting theft and it is hypocritical to buy something you claim you don't want to see in the form of a pirated copy. People who buy stolen merchandise, no matter from whom or why, are supporting criminals. IMO piracy in the music industry is the cause of the creative stagnation. Why should an artist produce something so that someone who doesn't want to pay me for my labor can pay some clown who had nothing to do with it instead? Turn the tables on himself and I bet he'd squawk if someone took a chunk of his paycheck away.

I'll do what i want with my money ok, i do want to see the movie, but i'm not paying to see it when Fox hardly puts any effort into making these good or great movies for us fans.

 

[GL's Light]

I'll do what i want with my money ok,

You're free to anything with your money that's within the law. You're not free to use it for an illegal activity.

 

[Iron Maiden]

Still sounds hypocritical no matter how you try to rationalize it. If you really don't like Fox, than don't support their product. But you must like it to some extent or you wouldn't be interested in the pirated copy.

BTW, I don't understand the complete bashing of anything Fox ... I just wish they put some of their TV people into movies. The FX network dramas like Rescue Me, Nip/Tuck, the Riches and The Shield have surpassed the premium cable channels like HBO IMO.