Justice League Brett Ratner is the Latest on the Shortlist

[Micromind]

Success of Hunger Games is due to popularity of the novel by writer Suzanne Collins, not because a female protagonist is present in the movie.

 

[Marvin]

There’s been some discussion in pop culture circles about female protagonists not being able to carry an action movie. Of course, you can make the argument that the examples cited are skewed - that those films are poor-to-only-fair for other reasons. But fair to say that WB might have these concerns in mind and be reticent to sink a big budget into WW solo film. Therefore, introing her in JL might be the ideal way to “test the waters.”

This is an excellent point and it might just be the one that convinces the executives to wait. I mean a Black Widow film at this point makes about 6x more sense than it does before the fact.

However like Kang outlines, female leads can be just as successful if not more as long as the package is thought out. Hunger games is about a female action hero and it's like the 3rd biggest film this year(of all years). Whatever the reason, it's a female and that didn't cause some disaster. Another example of strong packaging is the Twilight series. As long as you market it right and more importantly to the right audience, anything can happen. I should point out that adaptation of popular teen novels is playing a key role here.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Where are you getting this ****?

I could very well ask you the same thing.

Comparable to Che? a Key figure and symbol during cultural events? She's a ****ing comic book character, and one that has taken a distinct tumble over the last 20 years in popularity.

Yes, a comic book character that was present during cultural events that involved female empowerment. Thus, Wonder Woman being a pop-culture symbol and icon.

See how that works?

You're telling me Wonder Woman's place is SOOO cemented in popular culture that a solo movie wouldn't benefit her and raise her profile?

No, of course not. Superman right now needs Man of Steel, and Batman at one point needed Batman Begins. ANY hero can benefit from a high-quality solo film no matter how popular he or she is, yet for Wonder Woman, it's not detrimental and crucial. Her name has relevance as a superhero to the general audience. Therefore, Wonder Woman can be introduced in Justice League, and not suffer a setback (unless the actress, director and/or writers drop the ball).

I realize a lot of people think WW is a risk, but I think the risk would be worth the rewards.

It is a risk, but WB isn't going to be releasing 4-5 comic book movies within the next three years. Although they own DC, Time Warner isn't banking on superhero movies. They're a full blown movie studio with hundreds of other projects at their disposal.

If it were up to DC Entertainment, we would've probably already experienced Justice League, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Flash films.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Action and or adventure films starring women can succeed just fine and this year proved that with Brave, Hunger Games and Snow White and the Huntsman. People didn't see Catwoman and Elektra because they looked like and were ****, not because they stared women. Also just because a movie is staring a woman doesn't mean that it is exclusively for women. I think that a Black Widow movie would fail because the character is boring and the lead actress isn't great but I think that a Wonder Woman movie could do at least as well as something like Captain America did worldwide.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Action and or adventure films starring women can succeed just fine and this year proved that with Brave, Hunger Games and Snow White and the Huntsman. People didn't see Catwoman and Elektra because they looked like and were ****, not because they starred women. Also just because a movie is staring a woman doesn't mean that it is exclusively for women. I think that a Black Widow movie would fail because the character is boring and the lead actress isn't great but I think that a Wonder Woman movie could do at least as well as something like Captain America did worldwide.

This.

Catwoman and Elektra appeared like garbage right from the start. It had nothing to do with the fact that women held the top billing and leading role.

 

[KangConquers]

This.

Catwoman and Elektra appeared like garbage right from the start. It had nothing to do with the fact that women held the top billing and leading role.

Agreed...on something for once.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Apart from Wonder Woman eventually getting a solo film, I'm hoping Anne Hathaway and at least Jonah Nolan bring some justice to Catwoman in a solo film too.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Apart from Wonder Woman eventually getting a solo film, I'm hoping Anne Hathaway and at least Jonah Nolan bring some justice to Catwoman in a solo film too.

I would like that. Catwoman is an interesting character and I think that she can handle a solo film but she isn't Batman so they shouldn't give her a Batman budget. That Catwoman movie 8 years ago was so awful that it kinda tainted the character and that made me annoyed because the character is good. And yeah, no Superpowers ever again, none implied like in Batman Returns and none explictly stated like in Catwoman. I don't even want a hint of Superpowers.

 

[Majik1387]

Hathaway's Catwoman doesn't deserve a solo movie.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I would like that. Catwoman is an interesting character and I think that she can handle a solo film but she isn't Batman so they shouldn't give her a Batman budget. That Catwoman movie 8 years ago was so awful that it kinda tainted the character and that made me annoyed because the character is good. And yeah, no Superpowers ever again, none implied like in Batman Returns and none explictly stated like in Catwoman. I don't even want a hint of Superpowers.

Agreed on all accounts. Especially when arriving to the topic of money. If Catwoman film were a go, I'd expect a 40-60 million dollar budget.

Anne Hathaway brought in a very stylish and likable approach to her performance. I'm dying to see her as Selina Kyle once more. Anne was enticing, and at times mesmerizing. So it's a no-brainer that WB would want her back.

If I to theorize what route WB would take with a solo Catwoman film, I'd speculate a prequel.

 

[BestGirl]

I don't know how a solo Catwoman movie could work. Who's she going to fight? I suspect Catwoman's not interesting enough without Batman and a big name villain to pull in money.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I don't know how a solo Catwoman movie could work. Who's she going to fight? I suspect Catwoman's not interesting enough without Batman and a big name villain to pull in money.

The Riddler, Deadshot, Black Mask and/or The Falconi Family.

If I were planning to write the script, I'd add elements from Her Sister's Keeper, Crooked Little Town, When in Rome, Year One, and Relentless.

 

[marcvader]

I don't know how a solo Catwoman movie could work. Who's she going to fight? I suspect Catwoman's not interesting enough without Batman and a big name villain to pull in money.

Agreed

 

[BestGirl]

The Riddler, Deadshot, Black Mask and/or The Falconi Family.

If I were planning to write the script, I'd add elements from Her Sister's Keeper, Crooked Little Town, When in Rome, Year One, and Relentless.

I could see Catwoman vs Riddler or Black Mask making some dough, but Deadshot or the Falcone family? Eh. I can't imagine that luring in audiences.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Aside from the Joker, does the villain ever really draw an audience?

 

[Majik1387]

Nope.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I could see Catwoman vs Riddler or Black Mask making some dough, but Deadshot or the Falcone family? Eh. I can't imagine that luring in audiences.

They likely won't, but Deadshot could just be a contract killer hired by The Falconi Family (who only sees 10 minutes of action) to take out Selina for stepping on the wrong toes.

The Falconi Family is a crucial piece, in my opinion (with the usage of the When in Rome arc).

Riddler, however, would be the main event.

 

[BestGirl]

Aside from the Joker, does the villain ever really draw an audience?

Villains must draw in some people, otherwise movie studios would save a lot of money by having their heroes fight street thugs and the mafia.

They likely won't, but Deadshot could just be a contract killer hired by The Falconi Family (who only sees 10 minutes of action) to take out Selina for stepping on the wrong toes.

The Falconi Family is a crucial piece, in my opinion (with the usage of the When in Rome arc).

Riddler, however, would be the main event.

The Riddler being front and center with the others in the background would make more sense, though I don't know how the next Batman director is going to feel about all that.

 

[shauner111]

Black Mask would make the perfect villain for a Catwoman/Hathaway spin-off. Especially with their history. Bring back Juno Temple. "Holly" could be her stripper name. Tie it in with the Falcones. No Riddler, thats a little much and theyll want to use him for the Bat reboot soon.

 

[Majik1387]

This thread took a lame turn.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

This thread took a lame turn.

Any thread with 'Brett Ratner' in the title should be lame.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

Rather than waste money on a Catwoman who hails from a dead verse, why not spend money on projects that haven't been giving a chance.

 

[The Guard]

Some people keep bringing up how 'relevant' Wonder Woman is and how much of an impact she's made on pop culture as a whole, but I see literally zero hard evidence presented here and in my everyday encounters with people that what you all are saying holds true.

Try walking into a HOT TOPIC or a SPENCER'S, or a major department/clothing store.

Among other things, you're going to see a couple things eventually:

-Videogame and niche TV show merchandise.
-AVENGERS/MARVEL merchandise.
-DC superhero merchandise, including Wonder Woman apparel, Wonder-Woman themed Snuggies, lingerie, panties, costumes, etc. Along with that merchandise, in this store, and in others, you will see "girly" versions of Wonder Woman and Supergirl apparel, in pink, purple and other "female" colors. That's because Wonder Woman, along with Supergirl, is a female icon.

Seriously. I'm a huge comic book nerd and even I was barely aware there was a Wonder Woman TV show years ago. Granted I just turned 20 so maybe I'm on the younger side, but if anything that proves my point. She does not have the relevance that she once did.

And the same could be said of Batman and Superman before various projects brought them back to the public eye.

Obviously the average joe on the street could recognize her as a symbol, but that's it. By that standard she has about as much significance and cultural impact as Garfield. I'm really struggling trying to understand what some of you are saying.

Yes, she's the most recognizable female superhero that the average joe could name. That much is obvious and undebatable.

And....?

What else could people tell you about her? By that standard she has about as much 'relevance' as any other B-list superhero, and Captain America and Thor are more relevant based solely on the recent films they've appeared in.

No one is arguing that this isn't the case. Only that she is a known entity.

I keep seeing some of you saying 'Oh well she's such an icon among females', but I see nothing to support that.

I would be willing to bet that this is because you are not a feminist and probably don't know many of them. Couple of my friends are. It doesn't take much time hanging around them or flipping throgh their Facebooks, etc, to see Wonder Woman imagery start to pop up.

I'm sure there are a good deal of women out there that identify with the whole 'strong, independent woman' thing, but is that really all it takes to be labeled an icon?

No. But Wonder Woman has become synomous with that idea.

Girls and women saying things like "I'm Wonder Woman" or "Wonder Woman!" in a singsongy voice similar to the show's opening theme has become a cultural way for females to say they're strong, independent women.

I can't remember the last time I saw someone with a Wonder Woman shirt or someone bring her up in a casual conversation.

Seriously, maybe we're just from a different time but I see next to nothing that proves she's cemented a spot in pop culture among the A-listers.

Then that's your experience. Not everyone has the same experience. But the cultural experience as a whole is what we're looking at. Do an internet search for "Wonder Woman feminist icon".

Getting a solo movie does not automatically equal to getting iconic status, for example both Supergirl and Elektra got solo movies, are they more popular than Wonder Woman ?

Very good point. Though I think an argument could be made that Supergirl is very much as popular as Wonder Woman culturally, at least in the last decade.

I think that hiring Brett Ratner also has some positive aspects that need to he highlighted -

* He can make big budget movies in relatively less amount of time.

* He has experience in handling ensemble projects.

* He is not bothered by the use of Green Screen and CGI.

Exactly.

* He is not someone who will insist to include his vision just to leave a his stamp on the original story. He can translate how the characters are written originally without sacrificing their portrayals.

True. I don’t know the validity of this, but I recall hearing that one of the things Ratner fought for during his time on SUPERMAN was the red and blue suit, complete with trunks.

So what. So can Snyder and a number of other directors. Wachowskis can film multiple movies at one time in just as short a time.

So...it’s a good thing to be as a director. Other directors also being able to do things well doesn’t invalidate that it is a good skill to have as a director.

Someone hasn't seen X3.

What does that even mean? Ratner didn’t write X3.

The only movie i havent seen from him was Red Dragon and even if i like it, i still dont thinkhe should go near a superhero team-up movie with these awesome characters.

You should see RED DRAGON If you like that kind of thriller/mystery film. Its one of the better ones made in the last decade.

Women protagonists can carry big films. The Hunger Games just made over $600 M.

Yes, THE HUNGER GAMES was very successful, a few months ago in 2012. You can't point to a 2012 release and say "Why hasn't a Wonder Woman film been made in the past, look how successful this was!" This type of success is A, recent, and B, unprecedented for female action movies. Not that THE HUNGER GAMES was really much of an action movie.

Add to that...THE HUNGER GAMES was successful for one key reason, and it is much the same reason HARRY POTTER and TWILIGHT films were popular: There’s a large built in audience from the book series. Wonder Woman does not now, and has arguably never, had that kind of a built in audience. Comic audiences have always been a miniscule portion of the general public.

Action and or adventure films starring women can succeed just fine and this year proved that with Brave, Hunger Games and Snow White and the Huntsman.

Again, this type of financial success for a big budget movie with a female lead is almost unprecedented. And this happened now, in 2012. If this trend continues for a few more years, I'd say there's something to that statement.

People didn't see Catwoman and Elektra because they looked like and were ****, not because they stared women.

Eh...I'm sure reviews and responses to the films didn't help, but people don't suddenly start not going to see all films because they don't look good when ELEKTRA and CATWOMAN were released...they just chose not to go see those films, period. Let’s not pretend that bad movies don’t still often make money.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

The Riddler being front and center with the others in the background would make more sense, though I don't know how the next Batman director is going to feel about all that.

I mean, the odds of the Catwoman spinoff happening are slim since The Nolans are finished with anything DC-related, and Hathaway implying she only wants to work with The Nolans... but yeah, there's no telling how the new director would feel about a Catwoman film.

That said, who knows what characters will be used for the new franchise.

Rather than waste money on a Catwoman who hails from a dead verse, why not spend money on projects that haven't been giving a chance.

Because WB won't go for any other titles/characters unless executives are in the giving mood, or a character's popularity levels dramatically jolt upward all of the sudden.

 

[nogap87]

A big fat no to a Anne Hathaway Catwoman movie. I'm cool with strong, independent ladies kicking butt but I can't see Nolan's whiny 99 per-center carrying her own film.

If they ever give Catwoman another chance, WB could make it a fun heist movie.