Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 2

[Doctor Jones]

So I'm on season 3 of Angel, and even if the whole Darla thing was sidetracked in favor of that four parter I didn't mind it so much. It was only jarring when you thought about it, but I thought they pulled it off, and because the storyline was so good, I didn't mind at all.

And I just started season 3. Darla is pregnant. Holy ****.

 

[Charlie Boy]

That's a beer belly.

 

[flickchick85]

So I'm on season 3 of Angel, and even if the whole Darla thing was sidetracked in favor of that four parter I didn't mind it so much. It was only jarring when you thought about it, but I thought they pulled it off, and because the storyline was so good, I didn't mind at all.

And I just started season 3. Darla is pregnant. Holy ****.

Ha, glad you enjoyed the Pylea arc! I feel like that's one of the most polarizing arcs of the series, but I've grown to really love it. By the way, Numfar, Lorne's relative who did "The Dance of Joy" on command was Joss Whedon. His one-and-only cameo in the show.

And ya, like I said, the Darla payoff in S3 is totally worth the wait. t:

 

[ComicChick]

i did not know that about Joss above. cool tidbit of info

 

[Donnie Darko]

I've always been a big fan of the Pylea episodes. It's just fun, and while it didn't fit a season arc or anything, it was very memorable and fun to watch.

 

[Sawyer]

I need to plan a full rewatch of Angel eventually. I think it's been quite awhile since I've watched an episode.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Ha, glad you enjoyed the Pylea arc! I feel like that's one of the most polarizing arcs of the series, but I've grown to really love it. By the way, Numfar, Lorne's relative who did "The Dance of Joy" on command was Joss Whedon. His one-and-only cameo in the show.

And ya, like I said, the Darla payoff in S3 is totally worth the wait. t:

Wow, that was him?

That was one of the funniest parts from that arc along with Wesley proudly declaring, "I think we're winning!" only to instantly cut to them tied up.

Plus now that Fred has been introduced, I'm interested to see what all the hype is about surrounding her. Plus it's nice to have another female cast member besides Cordelia.

 

[Primal Slayer]

To bad that as Fred kept come growing as a character, Cordelia was getting degraded as one slowly but surely.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

I think Cordy was her best in S2-3. Season 3 was damn near perfect

 

[croboy82]

Fred was a really good character in the show imo I won't spoil anything.

 

[Wine-N-Cheese]

To bad that as Fred kept come growing as a character, Cordelia was getting degraded as one slowly but surely.

I don't know about kept growing. IMO Fred's development sort of stagnated after Billy. She still had her moments, of course, like in The Magic Bullet, but overall, the character was of pushed aside for the Darla arc, and then relegated to glorified plot device for Wes' arc.

I guess it wasn't that bad compared to what happened to Cordelia, though. The writers really didn't know what to do with her after the plotline about visions hurting her was resolved.

 

[flickchick85]

I do feel like Fred kept on growing to the end. Like, if you contrast who she is in S5 versus the S3 "Billy" era, she definitely seems like a more confident and powerful person, while not seeming completely different ala Cordy or Wes. She's still Fred, just a notably stronger version of Fred. And "Magic Bullet" in S4 was her absolute finest hour, imo.

I will agree that the focus and development in S3 eventually shifted to Wes, though. But just S3, not the rest of the series.

 

[Charlie Boy]

You know what doesn't really work as well when you marathon Angel?

Spoiler

Wesley's ultimate betrayal. When it originally aired, the story was told over weeks/months... When you marathon the episodes, it happens over the course of 3 hours or so and it just doesn't carry the weight it should.

I still love what they did with Wesley and the new dynamic that brought to the team, but whenever I marathon the show, it's a bit hard to swallow at first.

 

[flickchick85]

^^^^^
I'm not sure that I agree. It worked for me last time I marathon-ed it, but it does indeed happen quickly.

But on another note, we've got a poster here who's currently watching S3 for the first time so might you consider putting all that in a spoiler tag out of courtesy? I know these shows are over a decade old so it's not like you have to, but ya know, just to be nice? I've been trying to stay really vague when talking about future events lately for that reason.

 

[Charlie Boy]

Ah! Yes, my bad!

Still love that storyline, it just felt a bit off when I marathoned last time.

 

[flickchick85]

Ah! Yes, my bad!

Still love that storyline, it just felt a bit off when I marathoned last time.

Thanks for doing that! And yeah, I can see how it would feel off to some people. In the hands of different actors, it probably would have for me too, because it was written as a pretty fast development, but I dunno, for me they sold it.

 

[Charlie Boy]

Totally spaced that we had current posters who were in the middle of the series.

Different strokes for different folks, ya know? For instance, a lot of people didn't care for season 4, whereas I loved it. I saw it as this Shakespearean tragedy being played out in the Hyperion.

 

[Marvolo]

I've always been a big fan of the Pylea episodes. It's just fun, and while it didn't fit a season arc or anything, it was very memorable and fun to watch.

The Pylea episodes are some of my favorite!

 

[flickchick85]

Totally spaced that we had current posters who were in the middle of the series.

Different strokes for different folks, ya know? For instance, a lot of people didn't care for season 4, whereas I loved it. I saw it as this Shakespearean tragedy being played out in the Hyperion.

Yeah, I loved S4, too. Not just because it had a sort of Greek tragedy feel, but also because of the pace. Once that season gets going, it's cliffhanger after cliffhanger. Sorta like Angel-meets-24, lol. That gave it a really unique feel to me that sets it apart from the earlier seasons.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Thanks for the courtesy guys. I finished season 3 today and will begin season 4.

Well... ****. That was one hell of a season. Where do I begin? You were right, Darla does pay off in a BIG way, and incredibly satisfying. Angel being a father, Holtz as a character and just him taking away the baby to his conclusion in the show which was so dastardly perfect. Fred getting more and more lovable if that's even possible, Cordelia's superb growth. It's hard to believe she was once that Cordelia from the first three seasons of Buffy. I'd love to see her reunite with Buffy just to see how Buffy would respond to such a changed person, especially if it's Cordelia.

And of course, Wesley's arc. I've heard he grows even more, but from the awkward dancing self proclaiming "rogue demon hunter" to the man he is at the latter half of season 3 was incredible. He's already turned into a badass. I can't wait to see what happens next. I hear Connor is a frustrating character and I can tell he's already going to be more of a handful so I'm looking forward for what's to come in season 4.

And Lorne. "Somebody get me a sea breeze."

 

[flickchick85]

^^^Wow, you're just powering on through!

Yeah, S3 is my 2nd favorite season of the show behind S5. Mainly because of the Darla payoff and Wesley's arc. It was the first season that didn't have a single Buffy crossover and it really felt like the show had broken free and become its own beast, completely standing on its own. And yeah, Wes' character just keeps evolving all the way to the end and its wonderful. It's why he's my favorite character in the Buffyverse, basically.

*sigh* I hear ya on that Cordelia and Buffy reunion, but I wouldn't get your hopes up on that. It never happens and it's one of the most lamented missed opportunities of the Buffyverse. It really should have happened, and I have no idea why it didn't.

And you're right, Connor is definitely a polarizing character. No comment on him, lol.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'm on like episode 5... and Connor so far is eh. I don't know if it's how he's written or Kartheiser's casting but he doesn't quite feel like Angel's son.

Yeah, I love Wesley because as narcissistic is it may sound, I can identify with the guy a lot. In terms of changes of demeanor and other things. We're kind of similar in terms of who I was a few years ago and who I am now. I'm not a demon hunting badass or anything, but I've just really changed for the better and become a lot stronger through experiences I never thought I'd have. And some personality quirks here and there. You put Wesley and Xander together, that's close to my personality. I haven't ever gotten that with anything outside Whedon shows.

I noticed where Wesley took a turn is when he pretended he was Angel to be that bodyguard. And it's every bit as entertaining as I imagined it would be. That and once Angel fired them and he became the boss of things. Everyone's really stepped it up, but his is the most profound.

 

[Sawyer]

I'm on like episode 5... and Connor so far is eh. I don't know if it's how he's written or Kartheiser's casting but he doesn't quite feel like Angel's son.

Yeah, I love Wesley because as narcissistic is it may sound, I can identify with the guy a lot. In terms of changes of demeanor and other things. We're kind of similar in terms of who I was a few years ago and who I am now. I'm not a demon hunting badass or anything, but I've just really changed for the better and become a lot stronger through experiences I never thought I'd have. And some personality quirks here and there. You put Wesley and Xander together, that's close to my personality. I haven't ever gotten that with anything outside Whedon shows.

I noticed where Wesley took a turn is when he pretended he was Angel to be that bodyguard. And it's every bit as entertaining as I imagined it would be. That and once Angel fired them and he became the boss of things. Everyone's really stepped it up, but his is the most profound.

Expect that sentiment to only get worse.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm on like episode 5... and Connor so far is eh. I don't know if it's how he's written or Kartheiser's casting but he doesn't quite feel like Angel's son.

I'm a firm believer that Kartheiser was the biggest problem with the Connor character, and I'm speaking as someone who LOVES the actor on Mad Men. He just wasn't right for this part, imo, and some of his choices on how to play certain moments just don't seem to me like they achieve what the writers were going for at all.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Kartheiser definitely played Connor a bit snottier than I would've liked. From what I can tell, it was supposed to be implied that Connor was actually trying to be better, but he had this streak of darkness (and probably PTSD, in retrospect) simmering under the surface, so he couldn't quite get there. He enjoyed the family Angel provided but couldn't quite forgive Angel himself. He's a character built on a lot of contradictions, which takes a fair bit of nuanced acting to convey. Kartheiser just came off as bratty all the time.