Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]306548[/split]

 

[Captain_BluTac]

Sorry If there is already a thread on this (if so feel free to delete) but I spent 20 minutes searching for one to no avail.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer is an American cult television series that aired from March 10, 1997 until May 20, 2003. It was created by writer-director Joss Whedon under his production tag, Mutant Enemy Productions. The series narrative follows Buffy Anne Summers (played by Sarah Michelle Gellar), the latest in a line of young women chosen by fate to battle against vampires, demons, and the forces of darkness as the Slayer. Like previous Slayers, Buffy is aided by a Watcher, who guides and trains her. Unlike her predecessors, Buffy surrounds herself with a circle of loyal friends who become known as the "Scooby Gang."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_(TV_series)

Discuss away.
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[lorenzovanmatte]

Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered

The Good;
Just when you thought it couldn't get any better! Pretty much everything, even the music is superb, especially when Xander does his slow walk through the school. It really does set the bar for other eps.

The Bad;
Are you insane? This may well be my favourite Buffy ep EVER!

Best line;
Dru; Don't fret kitten, mummy's here. How do you feel about eternal life?
Xander (terrified); We couldn't just start with coffee?
Angelus (bemused) Boy I really did drive you insane!

Wheldon cliches;
Character death-0
Bondage-0
Knocked out-0
Shot-0
Women good/men bad-0
Kinky-dinky; yep, Willow enthusiastically telling Xander that 'Force is ok' showing the naughty girl behind the softer side of Sears (love her impish smile as she says this). Buffy striptease too.

Questions and observations;
Lovely to see Amy and Jenny back and Harmony playing a fairly major role. Buffy's slit leopardskin mini-skirt is just SCANDALOUS, is this the outfit Joyce refused to buy her in Bad Eggs? Xander meanwhile seems to be dressed as though he's auditioning for Life on Mars, you could go handgliding with that collar. I always knew Cordy and Buffy and Jenny were lovely but here I think for the first time you realise the incredible sexiness of Alysson Hannigan, all the more remarkable for her wearing a man's shirt at the time. Joyce has been introduced to Cordy and greets her by name when she turns up at the door. Exactly how long are Cordy and Xander running around, it's light when they leave the school but dark when they reach Buffy's house?
If I was to single one performance out from them all it would actually be Robia LaMorte for playing Jenny, the way she tries to talk to Giles whilst being gradually overcome by her irresistable attaction to Xander. Amy's *****y comment that Jenny is old enough to be Queen of the World is a bit much as she's only 28 at the time of shooting.
Note Spike's charming present for Dru contrasted to Angelus' hideous gift, his humanity once more shines through. The jealousy between the three shows through, AngeIus tormenting Spike in all sorts of subtle little ways. I once read a very short but hugely funny slashfic where Amy's spell goes wrong in a slightly different way, resulting in all the boys lusting after Xander rather than the girls, even Angelus. Anyone else read that one? You can find it here;
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1039504/goolcaptain

10/10, just terrific in every way

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Passion

The Good;
Angelus's lyrical narration. Buffy and Joyce having 'The Talk' (you imagine one day Buffy will do the same with Dawn?). Jenny and Angelus' confrontation at the school. Buffy saving Giles at the factory. The twist in the tail.

The Bad;
It seems rather stupid that Buffy simply warns Joyce to keep away from Angelus, because that's going to keep her safe? In the past we're told that Angelus drove Dru mad by killing everyone she loved and nailing puppies to stuff. Here he just tells Joyce that he and Buffy had sex, doesn't even do it nastily. Although Will's fish aren't nice.

Best line;
Any and all of Angelus' narration. Plus Spike stopping Dru from helping Angelus "Not fair if he doesn't tag you"

Wheldon cliches;
Character death-1 (Jenny the 3rd recurring character to die)
Bondage-0
Knocked out-yep, Giles again
Shot-0
Women good/men bad-0
Kinky-dinky; Angelus/Spike/Dru

Questions and observations;
Wonderful scene where Jonathon and friend actually come into the library to borrow some books (reminiscent of the opening scene in Friends where they turn up at Central Perk only to find the couch taken for once). Surely Angelus doesn't need an invitation to enter a public area like a school? Or has Jenny done a spell to keep him out and the school motto meant it didn't work. Equally does the invitation rule apply to cars? Presumably Angel has also been to Giles' house in order to put Jenny's body in Giles' bed. We must assume Giles and Jenny have had sex before if she has a key to his place and he's not suprised to find her in his bedroom. Once again, roses don't seem to repel vamps in the Buffyverse. Does Joyce not question why the 40+ school librarian keeps popping around the house to see her teenage daughter? Willow collapsing into Joyce's arms is a sign of how close Joyce has become to the rest of the Scoobs.
Jenny is the 3rd recurring character to die, making it one every 10 eps or so, the shock and brutality of him killing her is awful. Giles knocked out again. Willow's dad is called Ira and he seems quite strictly Jewish. Willow says she's his only daughter, what about sons? I was always suprised fanficcers didn't make more of Buffy and Willow's sleepover after Willow finds her fish? If you can restore Angel's soul why not do that to all vamps? Although Buffy the Vampire Resouler is probably not such a good series.
10/10, running out of superlatives here

 

[Hush]

Passion was a good episode.

 

[O'Haire]

Decided to give season 7 a re-watch since I have only seen it once.

At Calebs first episode. Man he was such a great character. Shame he wasn't around for the whole season. Obviously couldn't because Fillion was doing Firefly. But damn I wish there were more of him.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Decided to give season 7 a re-watch since I have only seen it once.

At Calebs first episode. Man he was such a great character. Shame he wasn't around for the whole season. Obviously couldn't because Fillion was doing Firefly. But damn I wish there were more of him.

Passion is a BRILLIANT episode, it's eps like it that show the gaping chasm between Buffy and it's copies liked Charmed, Alias etc

I hated Caleb for obvious reasons although he was a good villain, I think season 7 is one of my favourites, it started slow, got better, had a dip for a while post BOTN and then rallied at the end. Once and Faith and Caleb show up there's no looking back

Killed by death

The Good;
Very creepily shot and the central concept is just terrifying. Love the scoobs at the end and the kids drawing. Cordy's funny scene with the security guard, Cordy 'helping' Giles with research. Best of all though is Xander's Dirty Harry style confrontation with Angelus.

The Bad;
Not much

Best line;
Angelus; If I chose to walk in there do you think for one moment you could stop me?
Xander; Maybe I couldn't. Maybe those orderlies couldn't. Or that security guard. Or those cops. But I'm kinda curious to find out..." (the coolest Xander moment ever!)

Wheldon cliches;
Knocked out; yep, Buffy
Character death;
Shot;
Tied up;
Women good/men bad;

Questions and observations;
Willie Garson is great as the security guard, he also plays Carrie's friend Stanford in Sex and the City (which SMG guest stars in). Love Cordy's high-heels and miniskirt. Buffy passes out. Willow's frog fear re-occurs. You wonder if Buffy had taken the concentrated flu virus would it have killed her, she's pretty tough? Or once again is Buffy saved by her friends and family where any other Slayer would have died. Slayer healing again.
Obvious similarity to Nightmare on Elm Street although I also think the demon rather resembles Kid Rock? (anyone else read the fanfic where Freddy Kreuger kills Anya and Buffy only to wake up strapped to the bed in a mental hospital with Buffy as his nurse?)
The first alternate Buffy played by Mimi Paley. She's ok but not as good as the little girl we'll see in season 5. Buffy's had a cousin called Celia, Aunt Arlene's daughter? Even as a kid Buffy played at being a superhero and attracted the supernatural. Again, isn't Joyce a bit suspicious about Giles' turning up at Buffy's bedside? Love the bit about the Scoobs playing doctor (anyone else share Cordy's sceptisim about Buffy's denials?).
10/10 up to the standard of late Buffy season 2 and you can't give much higher praise than that

 

[Primal Slayer]

Decided to give season 7 a re-watch since I have only seen it once.

At Calebs first episode. Man he was such a great character. Shame he wasn't around for the whole season. Obviously couldn't because Fillion was doing Firefly. But damn I wish there were more of him.

Firefly was already canceled by then I believe.

 

[Specter313]

Yeah, the fact that Firefly was canceled was why Whedon brought him to Buffy and Gina to Angel.

 

[Hush]

So I just finished Season 6 with my Lady and am now onto Season 7 and wow whata first episode, the premise and everything was set up perfectly but at the end of Season 6 I have two words for that HOLY ****! I'am a lover of Giles and man was he awesome in those last two episodes. I mean he layed a pretty awesome smack down on Willow for a bit there and completely obliterated the Magic Box for the most part. The Nerds sorta became really Dark when you think about it towards the end there and that was something I didn't see happening but with that said I will say that 6 doesn't rank to favorably with me. Bring on Season 7 though, that final scene with Spike and what I can only assume is "the first" becomming all the villians was ****ing awesome, prolly one of the best the series has every done.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

So I just finished Season 6 with my Lady and am now onto Season 7 and wow whata first episode, the premise and everything was set up perfectly but at the end of Season 6 I have two words for that HOLY ****! I'am a lover of Giles and man was he awesome in those last two episodes. I mean he layed a pretty awesome smack down on Willow for a bit there and completely obliterated the Magic Box for the most part. The Nerds sorta became really Dark when you think about it towards the end there and that was something I didn't see happening but with that said I will say that 6 doesn't rank to favorably with me. Bring on Season 7 though, that final scene with Spike and what I can only assume is "the first" becomming all the villians was ****ing awesome, prolly one of the best the series has every done.

Yeah, Firefly was cancelled whilst Buffy and Angel were in mid season, allowing Nathan to be the guest villain in the latter half of season 7 and Gina to take the role earmarked for Charisma before she got pregnant. You could argue that Joss really spread himself too thin at this stage having 3 shows on the go at the same time.
Yeah, unless you're a spuffer season 6 is a little lacklustre but sure picks up in the final 3 eps. Season 7 is one of my favourites as you'll appreciate when we get there

Go Fish

The Good;
Good analogy of the competiveness of sports, the dangers of cheating and sports stars being feted and misbehaving as a result (does a week go by without that happening?). Very nice transformation scenes and a great mislead. Some great humour surrounding Xander and his relationship with Cordy, Snyder and of course the Angel subplot isn't forgotten (Why Miss Summers, you're beautiful). Love her Diana Prince moment and her stalking Gage. Plus Jonathon!

The Bad;
Terrible monster outfits! Also isn't it a bit much to let the swimteam just go at the end? They've already killed 2 humans in addition to gangraping Buffy, what if they decide to start attacking yachts full of tasty bimbos etc?

Best line;
Xander; I'm undercover
Buffy (leering); Not under much!

Wheldon cliches;
Knocked out;
Character death; the coach and the school nurse at the 5th and 6th members of the SDH faculty to die in 2 years
Shot;
Tied up;
Women good/men bad; Buffy gets sexually assaulted twice, making it the 4th and 5th time for her (if we don't count the Master mauling her) Cam deservedly getting his nose broken in reply to his forcing himself upon her and Buffy's already doubtful reputation ("I heard someone say she was fast") taking a further blow by 'doing it' with the entire swimteam. Nice role reversal though in the girls ogling Xander rather than the other way around for once.
Kinky dinky;
Xander in his speedos often considered as his sexiest moment in the series. Although a sizeable minority think his sexiest moment when he was hyena possessed in The Pack which says a great many things about Buffyfans?

Subtext; Xander seem nervous at the thought of being in the steam room with a bunch of near naked guys. By contrast the girls all seem to be very taken by the sight of him in his speedos, even Willow which seems to once again suggest she's bi rather than gay

What the fanficcers thought; Buffy 'doing it' with the entire Mutant Swimteam an alarmingly popular pairing. In the end she kills them all with a swordfish's nose and escapes with Willow and Xander's help. If you're 18+ and like the idea of Buffy and the other scoobygirls having sex with demons etc then http://www.taboostudios.com/slayer.html
Questions and observations;
I always thought the guy from Prison Break looked familar, rewatching this I now know why (although he doesn't have the tats yet). It's a shame he gets transformed, I love the little hints of a relationship developing between him and Buffy, especially a terrified Gage asking Buffy to walk him home after she saves him from Angelus (talk about gender roles reversal, the strapping athlete asking the petite blonde to protect him). Cam reminds me of Buffy's old boyfriend from LA and the type of guys she used to go out with. Now of course she rapidly get's bored of him as he's nothing compared to Angel and the steroids have made him a jerk. Presumably either the coach added magic to the steroid mix or he's another recipient of the Hellmouth Genius effect.
7/10 I think, a pretty slight tale but funny nonetheless

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Season 4 of Angel still depresses me a bit. So many good elements tainted by a few really, really bad ones.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Conner and Cordy....along with Angel and Cordy...and Blonde Cordy, and possessed Cordy..

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Angel and Cordy I was fine with. Connor and Cordy almost made me barf. Possessed Cordy I could've dealt with if it weren't the final f***ing word on the character. She really should've come back for season 5 instead of just... dying. Although her one episode in season 5 was pretty good.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

All of the other seasons of Angel were great, as far as I'm concerned. 2 and 5 are probably my favorites.

 

[Kii]

Connor and Cordy was such a mess that I can barely watch Season Four. It's even more maddening when you hear about the reasoning behind it all.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think I ever did. Was it just because Charisma Carpenter got preggers?

 

[Kii]

I don't think I ever did. Was it just because Charisma Carpenter got preggers?

Basically. Joss was supposedly upset at the fact that Charisma was pregnant, so he in turn "punished" her.

 

[Matt Mortem]

I never ever like Connor so Season 4 was pretty much a bust for me. Add that whole Cordy subplot and you have a less than stellar season on your hands. Thank God Season 5 made up for it.

 

[Sawyer]

I can tolerate Connor/Cordy just for the fact that it wasn't actually Cordy. Otherwise,

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that's what I tell myself at night so I can sleep.

Basically. Joss was supposedly upset at the fact that Charisma was pregnant, so he in turn "punished" her.

Bwuh? No way, I didn't think Joss Whedon was a *****e that way... That makes me cry a little inside.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Yeah, that's what I tell myself at night so I can sleep.


Bwuh? No way, I didn't think Joss Whedon was a *****e that way... That makes me cry a little inside.

OMG how can anyone read a line like that as a quote from Joss and NOT realise that is just his sense of humour...

it was a joke... he's not a *****e...

 

[Specter313]

Angel and Cordy I was fine with. Connor and Cordy almost made me barf. Possessed Cordy I could've dealt with if it weren't the final f***ing word on the character. She really should've come back for season 5 instead of just... dying. Although her one episode in season 5 was pretty good.

I'll admit, after I picked my jaw off the floor at the final scene, I got a lil teary eyed.

 

[Specter313]

I don't think I ever did. Was it just because Charisma Carpenter got preggers?

Basically. Joss was supposedly upset at the fact that Charisma was pregnant, so he in turn "punished" her.

Yeah, that's what I tell myself at night so I can sleep.


Bwuh? No way, I didn't think Joss Whedon was a *****e that way... That makes me cry a little inside.

Well, there were rumors that the two had a little of a falling out before that as well, to the point were even Charisma wanted some time off from the show, and Joss wrote her out altogether.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

OMG how can anyone read a line like that as a quote from Joss and NOT realise that is just his sense of humour...

it was a joke... he's not a *****e...

Well, there were rumors that the two had a little of a falling out before that as well, to the point were even Charisma wanted some time off from the show, and Joss wrote her out altogether.

1. That wasn't a quote.

2. He still sounds kind of like a *****e here...