Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 2

[flickchick85]

No you arent. I think more people tend to hate it than love it.

I don't think so. I agree it's very polarizing, but I think the majority tend to love it. I always see it on all the "Greatest Angel Episodes" lists (usually near the top), and it has a ridiculously high user rating at IMDB compared to the other episodes.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Ya a lot of people love Angels ending, really fit with the show aswell. And if Buffy had gone on for an 8th season you know TheWB wouldve kept Angel around for a 6th season.

 

[Spike014]

Ya a lot of people love Angels ending, really fit with the show aswell. And if Buffy had gone on for an 8th season you know TheWB wouldve kept Angel around for a 6th season.

I thought the reason why The WB didn't keep Angel going was because they had a new vampire TV show they were planning on doing.

 

[Marvolo]

I thought the reason why The WB didn't keep Angel going was because they had a new vampire TV show they were planning on doing.

Cancellation

On February 14, 2004, the WB Network announcedthat Angel would not be brought back for a sixth season. The one-paragraph statement indicated that the news, which had been reported by an Internet site the previous day, had been leaked well before the network intended to make its announcement. [24] Joss Whedon posted a message on a popular fan site, The Bronze: Beta, in which he expressed his dismay and surprise, saying he was "heartbroken" [25] and compared it to a "healthy guy falling dead from a heart attack." [26] Fan reaction was to organize letter-writing campaigns, online petitions, blood and food drives, advertisements in trade magazines and via mobile billboards, and attempts to lobby other networks (UPN was a favorite target, as it had already picked up Buffy). Outrage forthe cancellation focused on Jordan Levin, WB's Head of Entertainment. It was the second highest-rated program to be canceled on the WB. [27]

Head writer David Fury "guarantees" that if Joss Whedon had not requested an early renewal, Angel would have been back for a Season 6:

The only reason that Angel didn't come back...it's a very simple thing. Because our ratings were up, because of our critical attention, Joss specifically asked Jordan Levin, who was the head of The WB at the time, to give us an early pick-up because every year they [would] wait so long to give Angel a pick-up [and] a lot of us [would] turn down jobs hoping that Angel will continue– he [Joss] didn't want that to happen. So, he was feeling very confident and he [Joss] just asked Jordan, "Like, make your decision now whether you're going to pick us up or not," and Jordan, sort of with his hands tied, with his back up against the wall, called him the next day and said, "Okay, we're cancelling you." Jordan's no longer there and The WB has since recognized...I believe Garth Ancier at The WB said that it was a big mistake to cancel Angel. There was a power play that happened that just didn't fall out the way they wanted it to. We wanted to get an early pick-up, we didn't. In fact we forced them [the WB] to make a decision, and with his hand forced he [Levin] made the decision to cancel us. I guarantee that, if we waited as we normally did, by the time May had come around they would have picked up Angel. I can guarantee that.

It was just a ****** kneejerk decision. WB has since admitted it was the wrong decision.

 

[Figs]

edit

 

[flickchick85]

For those like me who are into this sort of thing, some old B-Roll from the season 3 Buffy ep "Helpless" has recently emerged:


There are also EPK interviews from the set that day in the Related Videos section. It's like a time capsule of a time when Joss had hair!

 

[Sawyer]

Dawn and Kennedy featured on EW's "20 Most Annoying TV Characters Ever" list

Kennedy, sure. But Dawn.... over Conner? Nah.

 

[O'Haire]

Dawn was just straight up irritating. Conner was really annoying too but he also had some really bad ass scenes that made up for it.

 

[Marvolo]

Dawn and Kennedy featured on EW's "20 Most Annoying TV Characters Ever" list

Kennedy, sure. But Dawn.... over Conner? Nah.

Maybe at first, but by the end I had grown fond of Dawn. Especially in the finale when she kicked Buffy and called her a dumbass for trying to send her away. Love that bit.t:

Conner can die a slow fiery death!

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah, I felt like Dawn was designed to be annoying at first, and then after season 5, she became quite tolerable (except for that random klepto streak she went on).

I always thought I would have been able to like Connor if he had just been played by a different actor. Which is funny because now I LOVE Vincent Kartheiser on Mad Men, but even to this day I still feel he was miscast as Connor.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I would choose Dawn over Conner anyday. There was nothing enjoyable about Conner. But jeez do I wish they had done more with Dawns keyness in season 6 or 7. There shouldve been more to her after she was turned human.

 

[Marvolo]

Yeah, I felt like Dawn was designed to be annoying at first, and then after season 5, she became quite tolerable (except for that random klepto streak she went on).

I always thought I would have been able to like Connor if he had just been played by a different actor. Which is funny because now I LOVE Vincent Kartheiser on Mad Men. But I do still feel he was miscast as Connor.

Yeah, despite him being an annoying git I do think some of my irritation was due to the actor. Actually I know it was. For me, something about that actor playing that character made for one irritating combo.

 

[Sawyer]

The only enjoyable thing about Conner was watching him get his ass kicked on multiple occasions. I loved when the whole gang discovered the truth about Jasmine and Conner sold them out, seeing Angel just mercilessly pummel him so the rest could get away.

Though, I must say, he was fairly pleasant in season 5.

 

[O'Haire]

I loved when the whole gang discovered the truth about Jasmine and Conner sold them out, seeing Angel just mercilessly pummel him so the rest could get away.

Angel tossing him out of the building onto the car was my favorite bit from that scene.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I agree with everyone, he might have been less annoying if it was a different actor.

Or he might have been MORE annoying... Think about that!

I think the saddest thing about the character is that it felt like they didn't know what to do with him.

I loved that first episode after he arrived through the portal, and the whole 'one hell dimension for another' idea. And I loved Holtz whole plan from start to finish.

But everything after that with Cordy was just wrong. It was terrible. And he just kept going deeper down until he had no redeeming qualities.

How he was in season 5, is how I had HOPED he would grow into when he first appeared. But instead of having that happen gradually over season 4, they just had him constantly being ****ed with and then transformed him magically.

So basically, I felt a bit cheated with Connor, cause after seeing him in season 5, it was like seeing what potential he had if they'd let his character become more than just a source of anguish.

He's the only character in the whedonverse that I felt they got wrong.

 

[Marvolo]

I agree with everyone, he might have been less annoying if it was a different actor.

Or he might have been MORE annoying... Think about that!

I think the saddest thing about the character is that it felt like they didn't know what to do with him.

I loved that first episode after he arrived through the portal, and the whole 'one hell dimension for another' idea. And I loved Holtz whole plan from start to finish.

But everything after that with Cordy was just wrong. It was terrible. And he just kept going deeper down until he had no redeeming qualities.

How he was in season 5, is how I had HOPED he would grow into when he first appeared. But instead of having that happen gradually over season 4, they just had him constantly being ****ed with and then transformed him magically.

So basically, I felt a bit cheated with Connor, cause after seeing him in season 5, it was like seeing what potential he had if they'd let his character become more than just a source of anguish.

He's the only character in the whedonverse that I felt they got wrong.

Most definitely.

 

[Young Superman]

I can't believe it will be ten years next year since Buffy (T.V series) ended.

 

[flickchick85]

I agree with everyone, he might have been less annoying if it was a different actor.

Or he might have been MORE annoying... Think about that!

I think the saddest thing about the character is that it felt like they didn't know what to do with him.

I loved that first episode after he arrived through the portal, and the whole 'one hell dimension for another' idea. And I loved Holtz whole plan from start to finish.

But everything after that with Cordy was just wrong. It was terrible. And he just kept going deeper down until he had no redeeming qualities.

How he was in season 5, is how I had HOPED he would grow into when he first appeared. But instead of having that happen gradually over season 4, they just had him constantly being ****ed with and then transformed him magically.

So basically, I felt a bit cheated with Connor, cause after seeing him in season 5, it was like seeing what potential he had if they'd let his character become more than just a source of anguish.

He's the only character in the whedonverse that I felt they got wrong.

Agreed. I really feel like their whole "reset button" concept in the S4 finale was just because they could sense themselves ruining the character beyond repair and realizing they were hitting a dead end.

 

[SuperBatman]

Just Recently doing a Angel/Buffy rewatch and I totally forgot that Jeremy Renner was in an Episode of Angel.

 

[Marvolo]

Yep. It was a surprise when I watched Angel for the first time. Kumar showing up surprised me as well.

 

[AxlsAppetite]

What was weird about Kal in Angel was he was also in an episode of Buffy as a normal human. Was he supposed to be the same character in both shows?

 

[Marvolo]

No I don't think so. Whedon just has a tendency to reuse actors that he likes.

 

[Matt]

I agree with everyone, he might have been less annoying if it was a different actor.

Or he might have been MORE annoying... Think about that!

I think the saddest thing about the character is that it felt like they didn't know what to do with him.

I loved that first episode after he arrived through the portal, and the whole 'one hell dimension for another' idea. And I loved Holtz whole plan from start to finish.

But everything after that with Cordy was just wrong. It was terrible. And he just kept going deeper down until he had no redeeming qualities.

How he was in season 5, is how I had HOPED he would grow into when he first appeared. But instead of having that happen gradually over season 4, they just had him constantly being ****ed with and then transformed him magically.

So basically, I felt a bit cheated with Connor, cause after seeing him in season 5, it was like seeing what potential he had if they'd let his character become more than just a source of anguish.

He's the only character in the whedonverse that I felt they got wrong.

They definitely mishandled Connor, but Holtz was easily the best villain of the show so it kind of balances out.

 

[Matt]

Dawn and Kennedy featured on EW's "20 Most Annoying TV Characters Ever" list

Kennedy, sure. But Dawn.... over Conner? Nah.

The list is flawed. Kimmy Gibbler, Janice from Friends, Screech and Lutz from 30 Rock are all meant to be annoying. The authors that put that together clearly could not make a distinction between annoying characters and comically annoying characters. Plus it is discredited on the sheer merit of having left off "The Entire Cast of The Big Bang Theory."

 

[The Question]

Honestly, the only character I found annoying in the Buffyverse was Kennedy. And that had more to do with the performance than the actual character. Were the actor's inflections less forced I'd probably have liked her just fine.