Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 2

[Lord]

After rewatching Season 1 i have to wonder, why is Angel so focused on the Xanxu prophecy if there are other ways he can become human again, i mean, there was even some demon whose blood could cure him of vampirism.

By the way, anyone been following Season 10? I stopped reading in the beginning of Season 9, but i remember the story being a vast impovement from the later half of Season 8, though Angel & Faith was then the more consistent title of the two.

 

[SiegePerilous]

Eh, agree to disagree. Anything can come out in a heated argument. And attempted rape aside, I don't think their casual sex was 'traumatic'. It's not like Buffy would would crumple into a heap at the mention of it. Besides, their last sexual engagement was perfectly healthy, so he would be referring to the S7 sex as well.

Regardless, this one instance shouldn't make you question Spike's sincerity. To do so would be to ignore everything else we've been told about Spike, and souls.

Well, Buffy did collapse crying into Tara's lap because she was so disgusted with herself about what she was doing with Spike. Earlier in that episode, they have vaguely consensual sex in the Bronze with Buffy either cringing or sobbing silently in self disgust while Spike smiles. He was basically taking advantage of her mental illness to isolate her from her friends and keep her to himself despite how miserable it was making her. The attempted rape was the inevitable culmination of some pretty warped stuff that was already occuring. And Spike refers to these instances as "putting it to her."

And it's not just the argument with Angel that makes me doubt him. Him still wearing the coat he took off of the Slayer he killed like a trophy is really gross.

After rewatching Season 1 i have to wonder, why is Angel so focused on the Xanxu prophecy if there are other ways he can become human again, i mean, there was even some demon whose blood could cure him of vampirism.

By the way, anyone been following Season 10? I stopped reading in the beginning of Season 9, but i remember the story being a vast impovement from the later half of Season 8, though Angel & Faith was then the more consistent title of the two.

It's possible Angel wants to earn his redemption instead of taking the easy way out. Which can be either really noble or kind of stupid depending on how you look at it (I tend to view it as both).

I read season 8, and the transition to comics wasn't a big deal for me because I'm a lifelong comic fan. But without the actors, it was really missing something. I think the best thing I can say about season 8 is that I really liked Satsu and Willow's weird snake girlfriend. But the excessive over the top stuff, throwing Angel's character under the bus and ignoring his supporting cast, and poorly explained plot details made it easier for me to ignore the whole thing and stick with the story ending with the shows.

I did read some of Angel and Faith, which were pretty good. What little I read about Buffy season 9 was pretty bad though. Lol pregnant robot Buffy, wtf.

 

[Wine-N-Cheese]

Lol, it was robot? Kind of a cop-out.

S8 was weird. I still don't know what was going on with the Twilight stuff. I remember the Angel comics being much better.

Well, Buffy did collapse crying into Tara's lap because she was so disgusted with herself about what she was doing with Spike. Earlier in that episode, they have vaguely consensual sex in the Bronze with Buffy either cringing or sobbing silently in self disgust while Spike smiles. He was basically taking advantage of her mental illness to isolate her from her friends and keep her to himself despite how miserable it was making her. The attempted rape was the inevitable culmination of some pretty warped stuff that was already occuring. And Spike refers to these instances as "putting it to her."

Ok, ok, so she did literally crumple into a heap. t: But that doesn't mean it's 'traumatic' for her now. She overcame her depression.

And again, it's quite normal for people to be crude when they're emotional. It was a disgusting and disrespectful comment, but that's Spike for ya. He pushes people's buttons. He's shown that he doesn't want to hurt Buffy, NOW, though.

And it's not just the argument with Angel that makes me doubt him. Him still wearing the coat he took off of the Slayer he killed like a trophy is really gross.

Yeah, well, that slayer wasn't anyone he cared for. Yes, it's gross. Spike's gross. I don't blame you for not liking him because of that (or whatever other reason), but it doesn't make him a mass murderer. You are free to your own interpretations, of course, but it's important to remember what was intended by the writers, and what was established about his character.

 

[SiegePerilous]

The Angel comics, at least the early ones, were MUCH better, I agree. Nothing sums up the state of the comics more than Joss gearing up to tackle a serious topic like abortion and then being all "Haha, just kidding, we're not taking this seriously. ROBOT." I kind of wish Joss would give full creative control to a more experienced comics writer. I would love Angel to be written by Brian K. Vaughn or Tim Seeley with an "M" rating slapped onto it. Or, completely out of left field, Grant Morrison

On your other point, I should clarify that I don't think Spike is a mass murderer post-soul at all, or that he would ever go back to his old ways. You said it better, he's just a jerk, and I just typically don't like characters like that. Especially ones that don't really get called out on it like he does. Or when his more vocal and devoted fanbase make him out to be some sort of saint.

 

[Wine-N-Cheese]

Fair enough. It's for that reason that I can't stand Xander, so I've got my own biases.

 

[O'Haire]

When it comes to the comics, Angel & Faith is great. MUCH better than Buffy has been IMO. Buffy season 10 has been a big improvement over season 9 though.

Only disappointment I have with the books is that Gunn and Connor have only been in a few issues. Wish they would just bring them back onto the team full time.

 

[Jason Kane]

Well, Buffy did collapse crying into Tara's lap because she was so disgusted with herself about what she was doing with Spike. Earlier in that episode, they have vaguely consensual sex in the Bronze with Buffy either cringing or sobbing silently in self disgust while Spike smiles. He was basically taking advantage of her mental illness to isolate her from her friends and keep her to himself despite how miserable it was making her. The attempted rape was the inevitable culmination of some pretty warped stuff that was already occuring. And Spike refers to these instances as "putting it to her."

And it's not just the argument with Angel that makes me doubt him. Him still wearing the coat he took off of the Slayer he killed like a trophy is really gross.



It's possible Angel wants to earn his redemption instead of taking the easy way out. Which can be either really noble or kind of stupid depending on how you look at it (I tend to view it as both).

I read season 8, and the transition to comics wasn't a big deal for me because I'm a lifelong comic fan. But without the actors, it was really missing something. I think the best thing I can say about season 8 is that I really liked Satsu and Willow's weird snake girlfriend. But the excessive over the top stuff, throwing Angel's character under the bus and ignoring his supporting cast, and poorly explained plot details made it easier for me to ignore the whole thing and stick with the story ending with the shows.

I did read some of Angel and Faith, which were pretty good. What little I read about Buffy season 9 was pretty bad though. Lol pregnant robot Buffy, wtf.

Well, a replica since that business in Italy but whatever.

I didn't mind the S8 comic as it was pretty much how I'd imagine Buffy would be with a movie budget (ala The Avengers) though cringed heavily at the coupling of Dawn and Xander (ESPENSON!!!! *shakes fist*). S9 was meh though I did enjoy Angel and Faith alot; especially the inclusion of Giles' aunties.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Kendra popped into my memory tonight and it really makes me wish they had done a little more with her.

 

[Specter313]

Since we don't have a celebrity forum anymore and figured people might want to talk about this, I thought I'd put it here:

Nicolas Brendon arrested for felony grand theft.

 

[flickchick85]

On your other point, I should clarify that I don't think Spike is a mass murderer post-soul at all, or that he would ever go back to his old ways. You said it better, he's just a jerk, and I just typically don't like characters like that. Especially ones that don't really get called out on it like he does. Or when his more vocal and devoted fanbase make him out to be some sort of saint.

Fair enough. It's for that reason that I can't stand Xander, so I've got my own biases.

...Aaaand I feel this way about BOTH characters, lol. But to be fair, there's a large portion of both shows where Spike was treated by the main characters like the jerk he generally is, so I was able to enjoy him much more than Xander. But I started to not like Spike as soon as he became an actual love interest for Buffy instead of a de-clawed villain with a creepy infatuation with her.

 

[Sawyer]

https://***********/SarahMGellar/status/602220826214014976

Sarah Michelle
‏@SarahMGellar
.@alydenisof and @AlexisDenisof Thanks for such an awesome party and my new #Giraffe You are the #CraftMaster

 

[jaymes_e06]

Awww.

 

[flickchick85]

Happy to see the cast on such good terms these days.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Sarah has been friends with everyone but Aly not so much so it's nice to see her and SMG getting along well these days.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Makes me happy to see them friends again since they werent the closest since s5 and Aly voiced her disdain for SMG ending the show. Now give me that reunion! Nick just needs to get sober now.

 

[Marvolo]

I wasn't aware SMG and Aly didn't get along. What's the story there?

 

[flickchick85]

I wasn't aware SMG and Aly didn't get along. What's the story there?

They were really close early on throughout the show, but in later seasons, Joss/SMG/Aly all seemed to grow apart. SMG was supposedly unhappy with what was happening with her character and how Joss was barely involved anymore, distracted by his other shows, and I guess the work environment in general became a bit unpleasant, as Alyson has talked about how SMG just seemed "annoyed" to be there by the end.

Then, apparently the renewal/ending for Buffy came down to SMG, and the cast didn't know that S7 was going to be the end until SMG's Entertainment Weekly cover story came out with the headline, "Buffy Quits." And Aly has mentioned how it hurt to have to find out like that.

It's been assumed that they haven't been on good terms ever since (especially with the way Aly has freely talked about this stuff over the years), but I guess time heals all wounds.

 

[DA_Champion]

SMG's career never went on to greater heights. That might tie into it.

Cruel Intentions
Buffy

 

[jaymes_e06]

They were really close early on throughout the show, but in later seasons, Joss/SMG/Aly all seemed to grow apart. SMG was supposedly unhappy with what was happening with her character and how Joss was barely involved anymore, distracted by his other shows, and I guess the work environment in general became a bit unpleasant, as Alyson has talked about how SMG just seemed "annoyed" to be there by the end.

Then, apparently the renewal/ending for Buffy came down to SMG, and the cast didn't know that S7 was going to be the end until SMG's Entertainment Weekly cover story came out with the headline, "Buffy Quits." And Aly has mentioned how it hurt to have to find out like that.

It's been assumed that they haven't been on good terms ever since (especially with the way Aly has freely talked about this stuff over the years), but I guess time heals all wounds.

Sarah and Aly used to get along so well. Seasons 1-3 the behind the scenes clips were like they were really Buffy and Willow (which was great to see as a fan that the connection was genuine) but around late season 5-7 their friendship just seemed to fall apart.

Strangely SMG stayed close with Michelle T. and Seth Green (who was her life-long friend) even Emma Claufield seemed fine with her but Alyson seemed so hurt by the way the show ended she never really ever even talked about her in enterviews in the most positive of ways.

Strange because virtually the entire cast of Buffy (especially Charisma and Michele) have said they learned so much from SMG and they were thankful for her help in their careers.

 

[PyroChamber]

Seems like the only ones who've gotten successful after Buffy were Alyson and Seth.

 

[Mad Ones]

It's interesting that the show could have continued after Season 7. I could be for the best that it ended early, since Season 7 is no one's favourite. Though I do love Season 6 and most people hate it. Joss would become less and less involved, though.

 

[flickchick85]

I like S7 more than most, but I agree it was probably for the best that it ended there.

 

[kvz5]

It's really sad that SMG's career never took off. She was the undeniable MVP for me in Cruel Intentions. She almost worked with Scorsese too!

 

[Mad Ones]

I could be totally wrong, but I always got the picture that SMG didn't want to have a huge career. Like she was happier building her family with Freddie and that took priority over acting. Which is totally fair.

 

[DA_Champion]

Season 5 is my favourite.

I think 7 was good though.