Sequels Can a Spider-Man movie ever top The Dark Knight?

[DACrowe]

This thread is getting ridiculous.

It is impossible to like both franchises?

I'm not sure how TDK is "incredibly" overrated. It is a great film. Yes, people on these forums seem to get-off at the very thought of Nolan's superhero opus...but it is a SUPERHERO site and this is the first superhero movie that completely succeeds and is fully embraced by the mainstream, including critical and industrial praise, as a work of art--something fans have said about Superman 1, Burton's Batmans, Singer's X-Men, Batman Begins, Lee's Hulk and yes...Raimi's first two Spider-Mans. But the first time its full meaning is realized and that anyone else outside of the fan community noticed.

It is just a REALLY WELL TOLD story. It never drags at 2 and a half hours and has richly developed characters that operate like members of crime dramas reminiscent of Heat and The Departed. It is just flawlessly shot and acted and for the most part written and directed (albeit that is where most complaints come in).

Fair enough. But SM2 used to be the gold standard of superhero movies until SM3 came out. And many of the fans who proclaim TDK overrated were calling SM2 one of the best films ever and a masterpiece, etc. etc. It is a great movie, but it just comes off as a bit of jealousy that SM3 was badly panned (though I find it a bit of an overreaction) and TDK is poised to be nominated for best picture. But those are the breaks. I don't see why TDK has to apparently get a negative wrap on the Spidey boards.

I do agree that people on this site talk about TDK too much (claiming it decided the election being the scariest and funniest proclamation yet seen), however it is because many do not see these kinds of movies or they have never seen it done in a superhero movie. Let them enjoy their obsession over the film. When BB3 isn't as good as TDK, you can bet there will be some pissed off Bat-fans too.

 

[spiderfan970]

In sales yeah, I think Spider-Man is the only superhero that could top the Dark Knight money-wise...but there will never be a best supporting actor/actress or best picture nomination for a spider-man film.

 

[Hectorminator]

Unless you get Ben Kingsley for the Vulture. So, get on it, Sony!

 

[hatebox]

While this thread has become redundant, it will be very interesting to see if SM4 is conspicuously influenced by TDK at all. You can bet Raimi, Sony and Marvel will have paid a lot of attention to it, but whether they're inspired by its best aspects remains to be seen.

 

[webhead731]

In sales yeah, I think Spider-Man is the only superhero that could top the Dark Knight money-wise...

Don't forget Iron Man.

 

[hatebox]

Don't forget Iron Man.

530 million plus? No chance.

 

[Visionary]

This thread is getting ridiculous.

Of course it is, which is why it should have been 'CLOSED' months ago, as soon as the name Batman/TDK was seen in the thread's title. Now everyone is repeating themselves month after month. It's what happens when the Mods don't do their job. Now you have Bat-Geeks jerking off on Spider-Geeks untill they're as white as snowmen.

 

[spiderfan970]

That's some pretty nasty imagery, there.

 

[Infinity9999x]

530 million plus? No chance.

I think IM2 has a much better chance then say, SM4 does at coming close to TDK numbers.

IM opened big, and made a good amount of money, it had good critical acclaim, and people loved it. The hype for IM2 is going to be huge. SM4 on the other hand has an uphill battle ahead for it. SM3 left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, so it's going to have to work extra hard to create the kind of buzz that IM2 is going to have.

 

[hatebox]

People who expect IM2 to make way more money than its predecessor are going to be disappointed. The franchise is starting on almost the exact same trajectory as Spiderman, and SM2 actually made less money domestically than the first one despite better reviews and tremendous goodwill.

To make the big, 400 million plus bucks a comic book movie has to get people watching it who would never normally watch comic book movies, or even action blockbusters. I doubt IM2 will do that where IM didn't.

 

[Visionary]

If a Mod doesn't close this thread in the next 6 minutes...I'm gonna cut myself.

 

[Venom'sDad]

^ Make sure your webcam is streaming live.

 

[webhead731]

I wish people didn't listen to critics.

I mean, they're just people with opinions. Being a critic is just a BS job. Anyone can do that. =\ Not only that, most of them are dumb.

 

[Chewy]

People who expect IM2 to make way more money than its predecessor are going to be disappointed. The franchise is starting on almost the exact same trajectory as Spiderman, and SM2 actually made less money domestically than the first one despite better reviews and tremendous goodwill.

To make the big, 400 million plus bucks a comic book movie has to get people watching it who would never normally watch comic book movies, or even action blockbusters. I doubt IM2 will do that where IM didn't.

300 million now is the same trajectory as 400 million was in 2002? I'm thinking no.

IM2 will be massive and WILL make 400 million+, and the people who are denying it now will have to eat crow in 2010 just like those who denied TDK's massive success this year had to.

 

[Batspider77]

In sales yeah, I think Spider-Man is the only superhero that could top the Dark Knight money-wise...but there will never be a best supporting actor/actress or best picture nomination for a spider-man film.

Why not? The source Material has much more Drama and great Character Moments then all other Superheros together.
It only needs a top notch Director who could Handle bouth parts,mind blowing Action and great Character work.

I have faith that we might see this in the Future.The Bat fans had also to wait a damn long time until they got the best possible Batman on film.

 

[hatebox]

300 million now is the same trajectory as 400 million was in 2002? I'm thinking no.

IM2 will be massive and WILL make 400 million+, and the people who are denying it now will have to eat crow in 2010 just like those who denied TDK's massive success this year had to.

I wasn't saying 300 million is the same as 400, I was simply suggesting that tonally the two franchises are almost exactly the same and play to the same audiences. IM had a big opening and was critically a pleasant surprise if not exactly revolutionary. No-one's going to see IM2 who didn't bother to see its predecessor, unless it's a radically different film. Which I doubt it will be.

Let's talk in a couple of years, I suppose. One of us will be very right and the other very wrong...

Hey, my 1000th post. How profound.

 

[Chewy]

I wasn't saying 300 million is the same as 400, I was simply suggesting that tonally the two franchises are almost exactly the same and play to the same audiences. IM had a big opening and was critically a pleasant surprise if not exactly revolutionary. No-one's going to see IM2 who didn't bother to see its predecessor, unless it's a radically different film. Which I doubt it will be.

Let's talk in a couple of years, I suppose. One of us will be very right and the other very wrong...

Hey, my 1000th post. How profound.

I could suggest the same thing about BB, but I'd be wrong - and those who did suggest the same thing were wrong.

I agree that this is a convo that shouldn't be had for a few years, but just look at the numbers - there are only two modern (ie post B&R) superhero flicks that were as universally loved by fans and critics as IM, and they were SM and BB. SM's sequel, while making less than SM's massive haul, still made what adjusted for inflation amounts to $425 million. We all know how BB's sequel turned out.

With two more years of inflation and word spreading to those who hadn't already bothered to see IM or were waiting for the DVD, the thing will easily pass 400 million. 450 and 500 are much harder goals to obtain, although depending on quality and hype they are not entirely impossible.

 

[Blader5489]

To an answer the original thread question:

No.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I wasn't saying 300 million is the same as 400, I was simply suggesting that tonally the two franchises are almost exactly the same and play to the same audiences. IM had a big opening and was critically a pleasant surprise if not exactly revolutionary. No-one's going to see IM2 who didn't bother to see its predecessor, unless it's a radically different film. Which I doubt it will be.

Let's talk in a couple of years, I suppose. One of us will be very right and the other very wrong...

Hey, my 1000th post. How profound.

I think a big thing for both SM4 and IM2, and other superhero movies in general, is not weather or not they can top TDK, but what they take from it. I do agree with you in the sense that if IM2 doesn't try to do anything new, and just sticks to the same formula as IM, that it won't be a massive success (though probably still successful.)

I'm hoping that other directors and studios take notice of what TDK was able to accomplish, and that it took risks with a subject matter that most of the studious and critics thought would never rise above popcorn films. Of course, taking risks don't always turn out in the movie's favor (as was shown by Ang's Hulk), but I think it's going to be important for many of the up and coming superhero films to try and learn from TDK, and for the directors to explore their material in ways they might not have before.

 

[Venom'sDad]

To borrow a quote from film critic/entertainment writer David Germain on his critique the 08 version of "The Day the Earth Stood Still" to underscore/illustrate a point I've been making, why a Spidey film(with it's best villains now gone) can not and will not top TDK.

The shortsightedness of Klaatu and his kind is just cheap, shallow storytelling by director Scott Derrickson and screenwriter David Scarpa so they can unleash the visual-effects hounds and show devastation wrought on the planet courtesy of computer-generated imagery.

LOL, whether Germain knows it or not, he has just underscored & illustrated Raimi's core approach to Spider-Man. The similarities is striking if you read Germain's complete critique. About how director Derrickson tries to "relate characters", provide some sort of "lesson", show the "consequence of those actions", all in a "less mature, cartoonish way". One may think he is critiquing the Spidey franchise with his review.

Unless Sony reboot the franchise, get a fresh director and writers who can grasp the essence of Spidey's lore of characters(both villains, supporting cast, and Spidey himself), and tell more mature, realistics stories; than no, it will never top TDK and may never top itself(the original, "Spider-Man")







A little off topic, here's David Germain's complete review. I personally don't know if this film is worth $8 or not, but remakes tend to be much more shallow than the originals. Spielberg's "War of the Worlds" comes to mind.

 

[lou2099]

Spider-Man topped Batman before, he can do it again.

 

[dark_b]

Spider-Man topped Batman before, he can do it again.

visual effects had a lot to do wit hthe money tthat it made. since TDK didnt have them it had to be something else.

spiderman 2 is the best spiderman movie .i like it very much.

 

[LightningFlash]

Spider-Man topped Batman before, he can do it again.

If they learned from their mistakes from Spider-Man 3.

The first one, in my opinion, has been the best of the three, but the second installment made more money. Third one made the most money...but I tend to think there was never a third movie of the franchise,

 

[I Am The Knight]

That's some pretty nasty imagery, there.

I agree And hey, I would never do that, to any of you. Unless you asked me to, of course. I do like to please an audience.

If a Mod doesn't close this thread in the next 6 minutes...I'm gonna cut myself.

Hmmm, he never came back, did he? I wonder if he went "too far" ? GOTHAM MUST KNOWWWWW! OH, THERE'S BRUCE WAYYYNE...BRUCIE!!!

Spider-Man topped Batman before, he can do it again.

And Batman topped him this year. It's a vicious cycle!

 

[lou2099]

And Batman topped him this year. It's a vicious cycle!

I said Spider-Man topped Batman before, and Spider-Man can do it again.