Sequels Can a Spider-Man movie ever top The Dark Knight?

[Doctor Jones]

I´m sure Raimi loves the Spider-man Character but he don´t understand the Character of Spider-Man.

In what way doesn't he understand him? And you better not say because he doesn't use quips. Because that's one of the least most important things about the character.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Yea i think if they said TDK can never be topped it will be disappointing for all fans. There has to be a goal that these film makers aim at so they can improve, TDK and a little less so Ironman are these goals.

I don't ever want to see a Spidey film in the same mould as TDK though. Equal in brilliance? Yes. Equal in tone and darkness? No

Yes to this. Great in their own ways.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Why...would you cry...over a girl...dumping you?

The best friend dying thing, yah, I get it, BUT...in the final trailer and in the movie, he had two different "crying" faces and in the movie, his "crying" face was VERY unrealistic.

Uh, because this is the woman he loves. Since the fourth grade. I woman he has always drempt of being with and now has finally had the chance to be with her and she suddenly wants to break up with him and says she's in love with somebody else? A woman who said she'd be there for him at the end of SM2?

 

[DACrowe]

This old thread?

Can a Spidey movie be better than TDK? Of course. Will there be one that is in the near future? Not very likely. But anything is possible.

 

[SatEL]

TDK is a once a decade phenomenon, Titanic had its time, TDK had its time and now in a good few years something will come again like a hurricane. Sorry to say folks but its not Spiderman, hell to be honest I am bored with the web slinger already and so might the GP.

 

[storyteller]

You people act like TDK was the best thing since sliced bread. Yeah its an awesome flick but maybe your one of those people who will see 20 movies in their lives. I've seen hundreds.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

You people act like TDK was the best thing since sliced bread. Yeah its an awesome flick but maybe your one of those people who will see 20 movies in their lives. I've seen hundreds.

Agreed! TDK was an amazing film, but seriously, that's all people talk about.

 

[Anita18]

Agreed! TDK was an amazing film, but seriously, that's all people talk about.

Because this is a superhero forum, after all.

 

[TheSlag]

Yes it can... easily.

Will it... doubtful (unfortunately) based on current status of the franchise.

 

[webhead731]

You people act like TDK was the best thing since sliced bread. Yeah its an awesome flick but maybe your one of those people who will see 20 movies in their lives. I've seen hundreds.

I agree very much.

TDK is great but it's not good enough to the point where I can watch it ALOT. I saw it once in theaters and that was good enough. I'll watch it again when it comes on DVD but I'm in no hurry.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yes it can... easily.

Will it... doubtful (unfortunately) based on current status of the franchise.

You say it can........easily. Then in the same breath you say it's doubtful!

Which one is it? It can't be easy but still be doubtful!!

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I agree very much.

TDK is great but it's not good enough to the point where I can watch it ALOT. I saw it once in theaters and that was good enough. I'll watch it again when it comes on DVD but I'm in no hurry.

It's all a matter of opinion really. Some people can be adamant that SM3 was brilliant, I will be adamant that it was a pile of crap, no biggy.

But IMO TDK is the best comic book adaptation ever, so future comic book films need to take notice of how it has been done. I'm not saying I want a Spidey movie similer to TDK, no way!! Spidey comics are different than Batman comics so the films should translate that. But everyone needs to understand that as far as writing, story and execution go TDK has raised the bar. Probably for all cinema in general.

 

[rashad]

Well said Ace. I also agree TDK is the best comic book adaptation. TDK's success benefit's this genre as a whole. It's great to see comic book films that raise the bar. I feel SM3 was too ambitious of a film coming off the heels of SM2. This series needs to get back to what made it successful. Spider-Man is not a dark character and should never be portrayed that way. It may not top TDK's box office numbers but I can see a Spider-Man film at the very least matching TDK in quality. And that's all that should matter. A quality Spider-Man film.

 

[The Joker]

Yeah its an awesome flick but maybe your one of those people who will see 20 movies in their lives. I've seen hundreds.

So have I.

And I still say it's an amazing flick, and the best superhero movie ever. As a Spidey fan, too, I say with no bias that I reckon alot of this b*tching comes from sour grapes. Spider-Man has been trumped critically and financially at the box office by a Batman movie. Spider-Man 2 is no longer the general favourite superhero movie among fans.

And some Spidey fans are bitter about that. If people were crowing about a Spidey flick, you wouldn't hear a peep out of you guys. In fact you'd probably be joining in with them.

 

[shinlyle]

This is such a funny debate to me.

If we're talking about a Spidey film trumping The Dark Knight in terms of money, then yes. All it'll take is a critically acclaimed Spidey film (much like part 2) that just grabs people at the right time, and doesn't let go. Simple as that.

If we're talking in terms of it being a better movie, then we're going into the realm of OPINION. That's right, opinion. In my OPINION, Spider-Man 2 was a better film than TDK. It just had more emotional weight, as well as some more indepth characterizations...not that TDK didn't have those things, but I just felt that SM2 resonated a little more with me. The only things I would change about SM2 would be the unmasking scene, and Kirsten Dunst's teeth.

Also, much like Batman Begins, I just don't think Christopher Nolan has quite gotten the hang of action sequences. I think there could have been a bit more done, especially in the final confrontation with the Joker, which was filmed so that you couldn't tell who was hitting who at one point. Still, the chase sequence and the sequence of Batman fighting the police and the clowns made up for it. The only thing I would change about the Dark Knight would probably be to NOT kill Harvey/Two Face at the end. His character may have served the purpose for this film, but I think there were more stories to tell with the character. Also, a little more
Batman/Joker action.


NOW, these things being said, I am a Spider-Man AND a Batman fan...a little more of a Spidey fan, though. SO, it stands to reason that I'm going to favor the best Spider-Man movie over the best Batman Movie. However, the general public is a fickle beast. Batman is their favorite todya, but if a hot, new superhero flick comes out next summer, and it is well-recieved and does well financially, you can bet that just as many people will be on here and elsewhere saying it is "The BEST superhero movie EVER". THe following year, the same thing.

Honestly, I think, in about 5 years, we'll see how Dark Knight holds up. I love it, it's a freakin' PHENOMENOL film...but it's still new to me. Spider-man had that effect. I watched it alot, then I didn't watch it for awhile. When SM2 came out, I couldn't walk by a television showing it and not stop to watch it...

....I still can't. THAT makes a damn fine movie, and I hope that TDK has me doing that 5 years from now.


(also, Heaven forbid someone likes both Spidey and Bats....Jeez)

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

But everyone needs to understand that as far as writing, story and execution go TDK has raised the bar. Probably for all cinema in general.

Lol, somebody needs to watch more movies...real movies.
TDK is good, I like it. But all Nolan did is put 'professional filmmaking' into 'superhero movie'. That's something true cinema always had but the mainstream is most often than not blind to.
It didn't 'up the bar', it just embraced it.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Lol, somebody needs to watch more movies...real movies.
TDK is good, I like it. But all Nolan did is put 'professional filmmaking' into 'superhero movie'. That's something true cinema always had but the mainstream is most often than not blind to.
It didn't 'up the bar', it just embraced it.

lolz. Man, I've seen thousands of movies, thousands.

But I honestly feel that the cinematography, the writing and the overall execution of TDK was the best i've seen in years upon years. People who say that these other comic book films don't have to look up to TDK are kidding themselves, Nolan and Co showed how it needs to be done, no doubt.

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

But I honestly feel that the cinematography, the writing and the overall execution of TDK was the best i've seen in years upon years. People who say that these other comic book films don't have to look up to TDK are kidding themselves, Nolan and Co showed how it needs to be done, no doubt.

Maybe if we're talking about comic book movies only.
But your point for 'cinema as a whole' just sounded a bit too narrow minded, no offense.
Otherwise nobody needs to look up to nobody.
You don't honestly believe that after the success of TDK, WB's kneejerk reaction to make another Superman remake just as dark was a good idea, do you?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Maybe if we're talking about comic book movies only.
But your point for 'cinema as a whole' just sounded a bit too narrow minded, no offense.
Otherwise nobody needs to look up to nobody.
You don't honestly believe that after the success of TDK, WB's kneejerk reaction to make another Superman remake just as dark was a good idea, do you?

No, no, no of course not. As I've said before in this thread I don't want all comic book movies to start going "dark". It's works for Batman because it's darker source material. But TDK has shown how to treat a comic book character/story seriously, to make it more than just some popcorn summer blockbuster. Do you know what I mean? Like Ironman, that was brilliant but it's just another SFX laden, explosive blockbuster, there wasn't any real meaning to it.

Oh and I am right by saying cinema as a whole will look up to it, cinematography wise and the use of IMAX will influence all of cinema.

 

[Anita18]

No, no, no of course not. As I've said before in this thread I don't want all comic book movies to start going "dark". It's works for Batman because it's darker source material. But TDK has shown how to treat a comic book character/story seriously, to make it more than just some popcorn summer blockbuster. Do you know what I mean? Like Ironman, that was brilliant but it's just another SFX laden, explosive blockbuster, there wasn't any real meaning to it.

Oh and I am right by saying cinema as a whole will look up to it, cinematography wise and the use of IMAX will influence all of cinema.

Not sure if I want IM done differently, aside from the formulaic superfight at the end, that even included the "I wanted to kill you all along" monologue from the villain. I loved the rest, but that bit disappointed me.

Not sure if all comic book movies should be laden with ~*meaning*~, you know? Batman has that kind of history in the comic books, but not all of the characters do. And if you go that way out of the blue, the audience might think you're being pretentious. Like what Massawyrm wrote recently about the new Punisher movie - the character is NOT deep, so why bother doing a deep film?

But at least make the characters and story good, the rest will fall into place. If every future comic book movie were closer to IM instead of FF, that would be really nice. And certainly attainable. TDK showed the world that comic books could translate to high-art cinema. But not many films overall, let alone comic book movies, turn out to be high-art cinema.

The use of IMAX cameras in a feature film will be the most obvious way TDK affects cinema in general. Time will tell if there are others.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

You always make good points Anita!

Yea I suppose not all comic book films need "meaning" to make them work. But maybe giving the characters real meaning and motives instead of the stupid "oh you killed me best friend! I'm gonna kill you!" route all the time. I understand in Spiderman that's quite important, but in some others not giving the characters real motives just seems lazy and just an excuse to throw special effects at it. I wanna see comic book films taken seriously, but i'm afraid if hollywood just keeps pumping out these special effects laden pieces of crap (FF, TIH) then they won't.

In TDK every single character, no matter how small had a real reason to be there, to be a part of the film. You look at guys like The Chechen and Det Stephens. They didn't really have massive parts but their parts were needed and very important. Every character in TDK was like a cog, keeping the machine moving with grace and brilliance. Most other comic book films and regular films these days don't offer things like that.

 

[Chewy]

Every single character in TIH had very clear motives and lumping it in with the likes of FF is absurd.

And this

In TDK every single character, no matter how small had a real reason to be there, to be a part of the film. You look at guys like The Chechen and Det Stephens. They didn't really have massive parts but their parts were needed and very important. Every character in TDK was like a cog, keeping the machine moving with grace and brilliance. Most other comic book films and regular films these days don't offer things like that.

is very untrue. There are tons of quality movies that have come out in just the past year that fit this description BETTER than TDK did and implying that TDK is superior to most other films in this regard and that they need to "learn something" from TDK is an insult to many great films and filmmakers.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Every single character in TIH had very clear motives and lumping it in with the likes of FF is absurd.

And this

is very untrue. There are tons of quality movies that have come out in just the past year that fit this description BETTER than TDK did and implying that TDK is superior to most other films in this regard and that they need to "learn something" from TDK is an insult to many great films and filmmakers.

Well I personally thought TIH was a pile of crap, thought Ang Lees was better.

There is NO super hero/comic book movies that better TDK for characterization. The Chechen, he must of been in like 4 scenes. But he was so awesome I couldn't help but root for the guy. Same as Det Stephens, and even that other cop who I don't know his name (the one who throws Joker the phone) they were all minor characters but the writing was so brilliant they are instantly likeable. What other comic book film has done that?
Well come on, tell me 10 films that have done better than TDK in that department in the last year or so. I bet you can't.

 

[Chewy]

1. The Wrestler
2. Milk
3. Frost/Nixon
4. Burn After Reading
5. There Will Be Blood
6. Jesse James
7. No Country for Old Men
8. Into the Wild
9. The Visitor
10. WALL-E

I could keep going if you want me to.

And you may have thought TIH was a piece of crap, but it doesn't fit the description you preceded it with. Which characters didn't have well defined motives? Banner, who wanted to rid himself of the Hulk? Gen. Ross, who wanted to weaponize the Hulk? Blonsky, who wanted to beat the Hulk to prove his prowess?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

1. The Wrestler
2. Milk
3. Frost/Nixon
4. Burn After Reading
5. There Will Be Blood
6. Jesse James
7. No Country for Old Men
8. Into the Wild
9. The Visitor
10. WALL-E

I could keep going if you want me to.

And you may have thought TIH was a piece of crap, but it doesn't fit the description you preceded it with. Which characters didn't have well defined motives? Banner, who wanted to rid himself of the Hulk? Gen. Ross, who wanted to weaponize the Hulk? Blonsky, who wanted to beat the Hulk to prove his prowess?

When did you see these? they are not even out yet.

Okay i'll concede on TIH. But i felt the characterization in Ang Lee's was better.

And out of all of them not one was a comic book film.