Sequels Can a Spider-Man movie ever top The Dark Knight?

[Spade]

That's the way the public consciousness works. Comparisons are made by most to whatever is seen as an equal, and in the world of heavy-hitting superhero movies the names "Spider-Man" and "X-Men" are usually the first to be mentioned. The stories have little to do with one another, but because they're the most popular they get unfairly pitted against each other.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Is it me or the general public seemed to disown Spider-Man as soon as The Dark Knight came out? The eurphea (sp?) of ZOMGGG THE BEST SUPERHERO MOVIE EVARRR was so staunch I couldn't stand it, even though I adored the film. I read someone say so randomly "way better than the Spider-Man films". OK, what does Spider-Man have to do with Batman? Than I thought, that's because they are the reigning supreme superhero films right now.

It seems to be a trend for whatever movie is on top, which I haven't quite understood. When BB came out there was a huge bashing of the Burton films, which I didn't appreciate. I liked BB more then Burton's films, but Burton's films were what introduced me to Batman, and I still have a special place in my heart for them. Just because I liked one more didn't mean I felt the need to bash the other.

Same with Spidey. I think TDK is a far superior film, however, I don't feel the need to rip on Spidey because of it. I have actually had problems with Raimi's films since the first, and I always try to make sure I have a valid reason for my criticisms.

I also think that SM3 really hurt Spider-man as well, and while it wasn't the best, it doesn't deserve the hate people give it. It's not a good movie, but it's nowhere near one of the worst superhero movies made. People just overracted because the hype for it was so high. That, combineded with TDK's success made for a bad combination.

and Chibi I agree with your last point, I don't think we'll see a darker Spider-man story done will with Raimi, which is surprising seeing as how he's quite good at horror films.

 

[p4poetic]

True Chibi & Infinity. It also didn't help that Spider-Man 3 wasn't very well received to say the least (well I liked it).

 

[spider-neil]

imho if TDK had come out before SM3 sam and co would have made a totally different SM3. mores the pity.

also I like the TDK more than SM2 but not 'much' more, I rate them thus

TDK - 10
SM2 - 9
S:TM/SM1/IM/BB - 8

I absloutely adore SM2 I didn't think it was going to be topped but TDK did it. I certainly dont think BB or IM topped SM2 as both endings are an absolute MESS.

 

[I Am The Knight]

imho if TDK had come out before SM3 sam and co would have made a totally different SM3. mores the pity.

also I like the TDK more than SM2 but not 'much' more, I rate them thus

TDK - 10
SM2 - 9
S:TM/SM1/IM/BB - 8

I absloutely adore SM2 I didn't think it was going to be topped but TDK did it. I certainly dont think BB or IM topped SM2 as both endings are an absolute MESS.

I don't see what the problem with BB's ending is. I do have a problem with a certain part of the ending, but I'm curious as to why you think it's a mess.

 

[Venom'sDad]

I won't argue that you can't. Still, Raimi doesn't seem to know how to handle it. If the film series is going to continue with Raimi at the helm, it's best that he works within his comfort zone, which- to me- means the more lighthearted 60s material.

Exactly... that has been my point all alone. It is not his style. Camp is his style so to say. If the fans ever going to get a MORE MATURE AND REALISTIC SPIDERMAN(notice I didn't say Batman Dark, like most appear to think I am implying), than Sam has to be replaced.... otherwise, it is what it is.

BB and TDK is an example of mature and realistic themes.

 

[spider-neil]

I don't see what the problem with BB's ending is. I do have a problem with a certain part of the ending, but I'm curious as to why you think it's a mess.

for me the main threat was the train so gordon rather than batman took out the main threat. hated that.

 

[Jick]

Turning Superman into a stalker was not a brilliant move, imo.

stalker?
how so?

 

[LightningFlash]

stalker?
how so?

Taking time out to see what Lois was doing in that dude's house (Marsters's character) wasn't necessary to watch...he instead, took out a chance to have a villain Supes could fight to make this movie more "emotionally-enhanced" and also to show how he's a Christ-like hero, when he's not, Superman has always been more of a Moses-figure than Jesus.

That's what was annoying with the X-Men films...his own ideas for the storylines mess up every comic-book adaptation he directs.

 

[Jick]

well, I can't discuss. I never followed Superman and X-Men comics, but I know them since I was a kid. I know what they're about. and Singer captured their essence in his movies. he managed to tell a great story, he knows how to make good action scenes and how to develop a character. the only one I felt underdeveloped was Cyclops, but I believe that's because they wanted to focus more on Wolverine.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

It's been said a hundred times in this thread alone, but, what the hell? I'll be #101...

Can a Spidey movie ever top The Dark Knight? In a word? No.

N. O.

Personally, it will never happen as Batman is my number 1 fictional character, ever.

Objectively, not till hell freezes over. Raimi or no Raimi (I think the guy's average at best, a hack at worst) Spidey is viewed as a kiddie cash-cow by the powers that be. Although it is possible that TDK's success may have the studio desire a more serious approach, I doubt it will happen.

Spidey has all the potential in the world. Ultimate Spider-Man has been my favorite comic since issue one (Hey, I said Batman was my favorite character not book lol ). That along with some select arcs of the vanilla Marvel character lead me to believe they could deliver a movie of TDK quality. But as long as the character is viewed as kid's play in the eyes of the big wigs and Raimi is at the helm? You've got a better chance of an Oscar winning Punisher movie...

JMHO.

 

[Visionary]

I think Bat-Geeks have *********ed over themselves enough, and now that they're white as snowmen, will a Mods with a brain in their head finally close this thread.

 

[Jick]

It's been said a hundred times in this thread alone, but, what the hell? I'll be #101...

Can a Spidey movie ever top The Dark Knight? In a word? No.

and what have been said wisely by some people is that it is a matter of opinion. which is true.
it depends about what is better in your opinion. your standards and personal preference are not everyone elses.

 

[The Chris]

I'm more interested in seeing if a future Spider-Man film can top Spider-Man 2. Doesn't need to but I'm more curious about that.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

and what have been said wisely by some people is that it is a matter of opinion. which is true.
it depends about what is better in your opinion. your standards and personal preference are not everyone elses.

Why thank you. And I here I was thinking everybody thought the same way I did...

Did you even read my whole post? If so, what makes you think that the people currently helming this ship would/could make a movie at TDK, or even IM's level?

If anything, each SM film has gotten progressively worse. They're still good, even 3, but they're so....ugh. I see the missed opportunities and it makes me so angry b/c after Bats, Spidey is probably my favorite hero and it's sad how things have gone in this franchise.

The Webhead has plenty of potential, as I said before, but it's not gonna happen with the cast and crew they're using, now. It's not.

The Tim Burton/Chris Nolan analogy I think applies here perfectly. Spidey got a decent treatment from Raimi, but in order to achieve real greatness (not just BO) he needs a Chris Nolan-type.

Until they get one there will be no Spider-Opus. Just more lameness.

 

[Jick]

Why thank you. And I here I was thinking everybody thought the same way I did...

Did you even read my whole post? If so, what makes you think that the people currently helming this ship would/could make a movie at TDK, or even IM's level?

did YOU read my post?
if SM2 was released in 2008 and IM and TDK in 2004 many would think that SM2 would be the best comic book movie to date. it is all a matter of opinion. just because you think IM and TDK are superior to SM2 doesn't make it a fact. other people have different opinions and none of them are bound to believe what you believe.
it isn't even fair to compare. TDK and SM are totally different.

 

[I Am The Knight]

for me the main threat was the train so gordon rather than batman took out the main threat. hated that.

I always saw it as more of a joint effort. Gordon was backup. But he did eventually rise up to the occasion and destroy the train. Probably Nolan making a point about an honest everyman being able to stand up and defend his city.

 

[Venom'sDad]

I always saw it as more of a joint effort. Gordon was backup. But he did eventually rise up to the occasion and destroy the train. Probably Nolan making a point about an honest everyman being able to stand up and defend his city.

Exactly, that may be true because remember that reporter ask Nolan about that scene, asking was he setting a precedence for Batman may need assistance from someone like Robin... of course Nolan said he don't foresee Robin ever being in his films.

 

[Keymaker]

I'm not sure if I'd even want Spider-man to go into TDK territory. I think he's quite fine as he is, but could use some tweaking here and there. Mostly MJ and her relationship with Pete...such a mess...and eats up so much of the valuable screen time

 

[Daredevil_2003]

did YOU read my post?
if SM2 was released in 2008 and IM and TDK in 2004 many would think that SM2 would be the best comic book movie to date. it is all a matter of opinion. just because you think IM and TDK are superior to SM2 doesn't make it a fact. other people have different opinions and none of them are bound to believe what you believe.
it isn't even fair to compare. TDK and SM are totally different.

I did, it was a bunch of whining about my opinion simply because it differs from yours, same as this one.

And from reading this thread, apparently alot of people share my opinion that no SM will rival TDK's quality till they go in a different direction. And, no, that doesn't mean TDK with a guy in a Spider suit. Just more mature (that doesn't have to mean 'dark', either) and with a better script, cast, directing....ya know, all that crap that's kinda important to making a truly great film.

With that said, when did I ever say they were the same? When did anybody say they were the same? A 6 year old knows Batman and Spider-Man are like night and day. Literally

That view about time of release is ridiculous, SM2 would still be SM2 regardless of when it was released. TDK and IM would still be TDK and IM, and still be better films. Time of release means nothing.

Up until TDK I still believed Superman: The Movie was the best comic film. And that was released 30 years ago...when a film was made means zilch.

I really don't understand why you're humping my leg over this, plenty of folks have said the same thing I have in this very thread and you choose to jump on me? Whatever...you love Spider-Kid. Fair enough. I like Spider-MAN and won't be truly happy till we get a movie about him and his world.

I haven't seen anybody bashing the character, saying it sucks or whatnot. I certainly didn't do that. I love Spider-Man, as I've said at least twice in this thread already. I, and quite a few others, simply want to see him treated with more respect. Same thing my Bat-bretheren wanted after the last series (although you guys are much better off, least your movies aren't terrible ).

I might just be getting the wrong idea from your postings but you seem to be getting all offended for no reason. Chill...

 

[p4poetic]

Spider-Man comparisons/wish lists to TDK just doesn't make sense. Spider-Man the Animated Series is my main source of all things Spider-Man. As far as I'm concerned, Raimi brought that world to life. I am satisfied. I don't need any clones/knock offs to appeal to the current trends due to another character's recent upheaval popularity who isn't remotely alike to Spider-Man.

Likewise, I don't want any more Donner/Reeve Superman continuation homage tribute worship prayer alters whatever in the new films, but that's all what Superman fanboys seem to want and/or accept.

 

[spider-neil]

IM better than SM2? no chance, absolutely no chance.
SM2 built up the hero and the villian, you saw what motivated them both and when they fight at the end (clock tower/train) you feel every punch because you feel for the characters.

In IM stane turning was completely out of left field, in the end he was completely insane and why? it was like when two face turned, I not saying this to be awkward, seriously I, and many others were like 'WTF?!'

so I freely admit TDK beat SM2, but IM? not. a. chance. but again its down to personal opinion, I just feel that in five years time when people are discussing great superhero movies SM2 will be remembered more fondly than IM. I pretty much said the same thing with Sm2 v X2 and spidey 2 has definately come out on top with the test of time there.

 

[spider-neil]

That view about time of release is ridiculous, SM2 would still be SM2 regardless of when it was released. TDK and IM would still be TDK and IM, and still be better films.

in your opinion.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

IM better than SM2? no chance, absolutely no chance.
SM2 built up the hero and the villian, you saw what motivated them both and when they fight at the end (clock tower/train) you feel every punch because you feel for the characters.

In IM stane turning was completely out of left field, in the end he was completely insane and why? it was like when two face turned, I not saying this to be awkward, seriously I, and many others were like 'WTF?!'

so I freely admit TDK beat SM2, but IM? not. a. chance. but again its down to personal opinion, I just feel that in five years time when people are discussing great superhero movies SM2 will be remembered more fondly than IM. I pretty much said the same thing with Sm2 v X2 and spidey 2 has definately come out on top with the test of time there.

I agree that SM2 did a better job of building the hero and the villain. But then I never said it was a bad film. Just that IM was better. However, upon rethinking and rewatching both films today (just got done with Spidey actually). I'll take back that statement. Iron Man has a much better cast and the directing and script is on par or slightly better up till the climax, where it just kind of falls apart. So I would put Spidey 2 in front simply because the payoff at the end is leagues ahead rather than a letdown. You win that one.

How is Stane 'turning' such a surprise? He's a villain. What did you expect? If you know nothing about the mythos and therefore it was a surprise, fair enough. But even in that case I think the shock was kinda the point, no?

As for Two-Face being a bad guy surprising? :facepalm

I do disagree about the test of time, however. Spidey 2 has not come out better. I had some problems with it from the getgo but overall thought it was the bees knees. 4 years later though it doesn't shine as much...still great though. But, like the series as a whole, it's dissapointing when thinking of how much better it could have been.

The first movie is the only one to still be as great as it was the first time I saw it. It holds up well. The two sequels not so much...

I think comparing it to TDK is perfectly valid. How is comparing a comic book movie done to near perfection to ones that are riddled with major flaws (albeit they're still damn entertaining) not a valid one? I dont know about others but I'm not comparing the two saying they should be clones of each other, but Spidey can and should be able to be the same quality, which thus far it has not. Like I said, they've been great but they've been such a dissapointment when you even begin to think about what they could be if somebody (Raimi) wasn't stuck in the silver age and trying to be quirky or whatever the hell he's trying to be when he comes up with some of this crap...and if somebodies (Sony) weren't so busy trying to cater to the kiddies and the soccer moms...*sigh*

Here's hoping that when I sit down for #4/reboot/whatever in a couple years I'll be glued to the screen and walk out with no complaints like I did TDK a couple months ago.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I say don't do another Spider-Man film dark for the sake of being dark. Tap into the appeal of the character, the thing that's made him successful. This is where they're going wrong in the next Superman film. They're doing it because dark worked. But that's not Superman. Superman and Spidey are positive and optimistic, something that we need. It seems that studios pay attention to why a movie's successful rather than what makes a movie successful.