The Dark Knight Rises Can anybody in the League of Shadows become 'Batman'?

[MessiahDecoy123]

How does money mean jack when Robin Blake had a cop salary and now has no salary as far as we know with quitting the police force? Having a massive array of tech and what not indeed does help, but money didn't make the Batman.

And as well as the fact that Bruce Wayne took out 7-8 prisoners WITHOUT training from the League of Shadows. The training by Ra's only helped, but it was not the League that made Bruce a well-defined fighter.

Anyone will misinterpret Nolan's Batman if they think the League of Shadows' training is what made Bruce able to become Batman.

Your interpretation of the Nolan films is no more valid than anyone else's.

Sorry but Bruce beating up some jail birds does not compensate for the missing tracking, spying, bomb expertise, escape artistry, detective and other essential training that a highly driven Bruce Wayne should've acquired from childhood on up.

Batman Begins reduces Batman to simply an over-glorified ninja and I hope they fix it with well placed flashbacks in the reboot. Nolan's origin should be scrapped. It doesn't acknowledge what Bruce had to master to be Batman. How much of his childhood and identity was sacrificed to mold himself into the perfect crime fighter.

Robin Blake was created by Nolan to suggest anyone could be Batman if their heart is in the right place which treats the fans like 4 year olds with such a saccharine fairy tale ending and message.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Your interpretation of the Nolan films is no more valid than anyone else's.

Sorry but Bruce beating up some jail birds does not compensate for the missing tracking, spying, bomb expertise, escape artistry, detective and other essential training that a highly driven Bruce Wayne should've acquired from childhood on up.

Batman Begins reduces Batman to simply an over-glorified ninja and I hope they fix it with well placed flashbacks in the reboot. Nolan's origin should be scrapped. It doesn't acknowledge what Bruce had to master to be Batman. How much of his childhood and identity was sacrificed to mold himself into the perfect crime fighter.

Robin Blake was created by Nolan to suggest anyone could be Batman if their heart is in the right place which treats the fans like 4 year olds with such a saccharine fairy tale ending and message.

So it's not your version of Batman, cool. But this thread is asking how if anyone from Nolan's version of League of Shadows could become someone akin to Nolan's version of Batman. This really isn't a thread to tell your feelings on how you don't like Nolan's Batman.

I myself acknowledge Nolan's version of being someone with the will, the morals and the skills to don a cape and cowl. He may not be the Batman a lot of people knows about Batman, but it fits in Nolan's universe and Batman Begins is one of the best origin films of all time and rather debatable, it would be silly to say BB is an origin film that should be scrapped. It's an amazing origin film, imo. Besides, no director has ever gotten one superhero right anyways in a film, and no one will ever do such as there are so many elements to try to portray and it's impossible. Way easier to do such in a cartoon.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So it's not your version of Batman, cool. But this thread is asking how if anyone from Nolan's version of League of Shadows could become someone akin to Nolan's version of Batman. This really isn't a thread to tell your feelings on how you don't like Nolan's Batman.

I myself acknowledge Nolan's version of being someone with the will, the morals and the skills to don a cape and cowl. He may not be the Batman a lot of people knows about Batman, but it fits in Nolan's universe and Batman Begins is one of the best origin films of all time and rather debatable, it would be silly to say BB is an origin film that should be scrapped. It's an amazing origin film, imo. Besides, no director has ever gotten one superhero right anyways in a film, and no one will ever do such as there are so many elements to try to portray and it's impossible. Way easier to do such in a cartoon.

Wait. So it's fine for you to praise Batman Begins but not okay for me to criticize it? Interesting.

There's no reason to use Nolan's origin for what will be a different and possibly more comic book oriented Batman character.

Bruce had to master more than ninjitsu to be a legendary world class detective/crime fighter/superhero. Some ninjitsu doesn't cut it. Not by a long shot.

and he started his dangerous training trek as a boy, not a full grown man. Suggesting anything else limits Batman's obsessive dedication and incredible level of diverse crime-fighting skill/knowledge. All this is essential to his identity and unique reputation.

 

[Victarion]

To be honest, Nolan's interpretation didn't really focus on Bruce's detective side at all. Much as I love this origin for Batman, there's fertile ground for the reboot in exploring that detective aspect.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Wait. So it's fine for you to praise Batman Begins but not okay for me to criticize it? Interesting.

Nolan's origin should be scrapped.

You're saying Batman Begins should be forgotten as an origin film for Batman. That's saying just because it's not your version and not taking it for what the film is, it should just be scrapped? At least I used the words 'imo'.

There's no reason to use Nolan's origin for what will be a different and possibly more comic book oriented Batman character.

There's no mention of Nolan's trilogy having any connection to any future Batman film. So is that what you meant by scrapped? Well of course the reboot's not going to follow Nolan's continuity, lol.

Bruce had to master more than ninjitsu to be a legendary world class detective/crime fighter/superhero. Some ninjitsu doesn't cut it. Not by a long shot.

But to Nolan's version, it does. Now of course I'd want a much more comic-likeness with Batman in a later installment, but Nolan's version was always this animal, this beast full of rage. The detective skills were hinted, but I'm sure the next reboot will have a much more detective vibe to it anyways.

and he started his dangerous training trek as a boy, not a full grown man. Suggesting anything else limits Batman's obsessive dedication and incredible level of diverse crime-fighting skill/knowledge.

Well to give Nolan's trilogy face for what it is, Wayne has become very knowledgeable through the course of those three films.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Well I've explained why I feel the Nolan origin is terribly inadequate and shouldn't be used for the reboot.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Fudgie]

It should take an entire childhood and early adulthood lost to top level training under the world's greatest trackers, fighters, spys, bomb experts, escape artist, detectives, etc. mixed with superior genetics and endless funding to even have a chance of being anywhere near Batman.

Not just several months in the Mystical Ninja Mountains.

This.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Well good thing he didn't become who he was by being in the "Mystical Ninja Mountains" for several months

 

[Baramos]

The Nolan films kind of glossed over the other 7 years of training...Bruce trained with all kinds of martial artists (he does show Ra's he knows some of that), forensic experts, manhunters, spiritual leaders, etc. before meeting Ra's (or in the comics, Henri Ducard, since they are separate characters). His motivation is also important and it seems implied that it's stronger than those of Ra's and Bane.

I mean, could they effectively fight crime as well? Probably. Damian Wayne is pretty good at fighting crime, for example. But do they have the moral fortitude not to turn evil or become murderous vigilantes? No. Do they have the will to overcome the greatest of obstacles like Bruce? No. You see this in the Nolanverse: Bruce overcomes the Pit (and a broken back) through sheer will. Bane never could. Both were heavily physically damaged, but Bruce works through the pain and manages to escape. He has more strength of will than Bane or Ra's Al'Ghul.

Bane or Ra's Al'Ghul's motivation is ultimately revenge, which can be self-destructive and ultimately isn't as strong a motivation as Bruce's, which is to change the very nature of an entire city and society while maintaining his own soul (and in TDKR, save an entire city).

 

[The Joker]

I think what we saw in the LOS training was enough to give you a taste of the kind of training he endured. Between the sword fighting, the conquering the fears, the ninja invisibility and theatricality lessons etc.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Bane or Ra's Al'Ghul's motivation is ultimately revenge, which can be self-destructive and ultimately isn't as strong a motivation as Bruce's, which is to change the very nature of an entire city and society while maintaining his own soul (and in TDKR, save an entire city).

Very true.

Ra's, Bane, and Talia highlight the revenge/justice dichotomy.

As Rachel says in Batman Begins, "they're never the same".

To the league, it is. They talk about justice, but they are deeply motivated by revenge. And that is their downfall, whereas Batman distances himself from his impulse to be vengeful.