Civil War Cap 3 or Avengers 2.5?

[SuperSanchez]

Are non of you people creative? LOL, ok so you've never seen a movie where the supporting cast is larger than life and has powers? Ummmm X-Men? And those films still managed to focus on Wolverine, Charles and Magneto. And even if X-Men didn't exist.
You guys had never seen an Avengers movie before 2012 right? You guys had never seen an Iron Man movie before 2008 right? You guys had never seen an Australian surfer like dude bro play a legendary villain before the Joker in the Dark Knight right?

People always get scared and worried and think it'll never work when somebody tries to do something different and unique. Everyone thought The Avengers and the MCU would never work, no studio would try it. Marvel did it and shut everyone's asses up. Everyone thought two giant studios could never work together and play nice but Marvel proving b*tches wrong again by bringing Spidey to the MCU. Everyone thought the novelty of seeing these heroes standing together would ware off and Avengers 2 would fail, Marvel proving MF's wrong AGAIN!

Marvel are not perfect by any means. But they are trying to innovate, making larger than life main characters into supporting cast members is a unique approach and I for one know how I would do it. You just freaking do it! Simple as that.

You don't worry about screen time, you don't worry about any if's and buts you just write a story from Captain America's perspective and everyone around him reacting to it. It doesn't matter if the supporting cast is "Punk kid 4" or God. You just write the story in a way that makes sense to cap and everyone around him but just focus on cap.

It's really not that hard guys.

*insert Morgan Freeman "He's right you know" meme* Its true, people are afraid of change when most times its a good thing, and now that Marvel have a reputation, they can make any movie and even if it is crap we'll still love it and watch it 100 times in cinemas then get all the merchandise and every version of DVD and BluRay when it comes out

 

[DoubleO88]

They should've done Iron Man 4: Civil War P1 then Captain America 3: Civil War P2

That would've been pretty good.

 

[Dark Raven]

They should've done Iron Man 4: Civil War P1 then Captain America 3: Civil War P2

If it gets too big, they could split it into two movies and have the second part come out later in 2016. There are only 2 MCU movies that year anyway. They could have Civil War part 2 in July or August.

 

[DoubleO88]

If it gets too big, they could split it into two movies and have the second part come out later in 2016. There are only 2 MCU movies that year anyway. They could have Civil War part 2 in July or August.

Chris Evans was saying Civil War was a lead up to Infinity War Pt1 he all but said the climax would take place in that movie. Or that IW will be directly impacted by Civil War. Maybe The seeds for Civil War will be planted in this movie and it will be an ongoing thing until Infinity War.

 

[sueb1863]

Maybe they'll add (Age of Ultron spoiler)

Spoiler

Quicksilver's ghost

for good measure...

 

[Havok83]

Maybe they'll add (Age of Ultron spoiler)

Spoiler

Quicksilver's ghost

for good measure...

Im pretty sure he can play the same role that Clor did. Actually I expect that now

 

[Illegal Seafood]

Chris Evans was saying Civil War was a lead up to Infinity War Pt1 he all but said the climax would take place in that movie. Or that IW will be directly impacted by Civil War. Maybe The seeds for Civil War will be planted in this movie and it will be an ongoing thing until Infinity War.

I think people are taking his comments a bit too literally.

I think what he was saying was that this film will lead into Avengers 3. Like Cap 2 lead into Avengers 2.

There wasn't any build up to Ultron/Vision in CA:TWS and only a tease to the twins at the end. I suspect that was what he meant by his comments the other day.

My guess so far is that the implications of Civil War will bring new Avengers characters into the mix, (BP, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, etc) who will be part of the team for Infinity War part 1.

 

[DoubleO88]

I think people are taking his comments a bit too literally.

I think what he was saying was that this film will lead into Avengers 3. Like Cap 2 lead into Avengers 2.

There wasn't any build up to Ultron/Vision in CA:TWS and only a tease to the twins at the end. I suspect that was what he meant by his comments the other day.

My guess so far is that the implications of Civil War will bring new Avengers characters into the mix, (BP, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, etc) who will be part of the team for Infinity War part 1.

Yeah you're probably right, I was just speculating.

 

[Illegal Seafood]

So let's get a head count: We've got Captain America, Iron Man, Black Widow, Falcon, War Machine, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Hawkeye, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, and Black Panther. That's more superheroes than appeared in Age of Ultron (Well, just as many as AOU if you count Falcon's cameo). But even with all the characters running around that film, Cap still got the most screen time and there was a lot of focus on him. I'm no longer worried about the film losing focus on him in Civil War.

There were also a lot of characters in CA:TWS, and I never thought that the film lost focus on Cap.

You had: CA, BW, Falcon, Bucky, Fury, Hill, Rumlow, Agent 13, Pierce, Agent Sitwell, Zola, Batroc.

While CA:CW definitely has more prominent characters (and will probably have more than TWS), if they are used in a similar fashion to the previous film we are in for a treat.

 

[SuperSanchez]

Chris Evans was saying Civil War was a lead up to Infinity War Pt1 he all but said the climax would take place in that movie. Or that IW will be directly impacted by Civil War. Maybe The seeds for Civil War will be planted in this movie and it will be an ongoing thing until Infinity War.

do you think that maybe Captain America won't die at end of civil war? Instead at end of Infinity Wars part 1? Or will Captain America's death be in Civil War and that will cause something in Infinity Wars

 

[DoubleO88]

do you think that maybe Captain America won't die at end of civil war? Instead at end of Infinity Wars part 1? Or will Captain America's death be in Civil War and that will cause something in Infinity Wars

That's interesting, could be. But to kill him off at the end of IW 1 only to bring him back in IW 2 is a bit lame. Killing him off in CW means there will be a whole 2 years of the Marvel Cinematic Universe with Cap dead and I think that's exciting. Seeing how the rest of the universe reacts to the death of a living legend like Cap for the next few films. It could even play in the Netflix Series' and Agents of Shield.

I still think Cap could die at the end of Civil War even if Evans has confirmed shooting back to back for IW 1 and 2. I think his comments are to throw people off into thinking Cap is safe. Of course immediately we know he's gonna come back if he dies in CW but it's not really for us to be shocked, it's like Bucky's reveal, that was for Cap, not for us, we all knew TWS was Bucky. Cap's death will be for the rest of the MCU to reflect.

Cap will be brought back to life at the end of IW 1 with either the time gem, or the soul gem. If they have the balls to kill him.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I still say killing Cap in either CW or IW1 is a dumb idea. If you're going to do it, don't insult me by doing it for shock factor and taking it back shortly after. It is a cop out and thus meaniningless.

 

[DoubleO88]

I still say killing Cap in either CW or IW1 is a dumb idea. If you're going to do it, don't insult me by doing it for shock factor and taking it back shortly after. It is a cop out and thus meaniningless.

Like I said it wouldn't be for shock value for us, maybe for the casual movie audience who don't actively look this stuff up but not for us.
It will be to impact the rest of the characters within the MCU, not for us.

I know full well Cap is coming back in IW 1 and 2 but I'd rather he die at the end of CW. Because honestly CW ending with them all kissing and making up will really devalue the importance of the story for me. I don't want a scuffle between Steve and Tony and them looking into each others eyes at the end telling each other how their gonna miss each other while Tony retires AGAIN and Cap leads a The Avengers AGAIN. Been there, done that. I want an impactful resolution that shakes the entire MCU and Cap's death will do that in spades. It's not to make you go OMG! It's to make the MCU go OMG.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Like I said it wouldn't be for shock value for us, maybe for the casual movie audience who don't actively look this stuff up but not for us.
It will be to impact the rest of the characters within the MCU, not for us.

I know full well Cap is coming back in IW 1 and 2 but I'd rather he die at the end of CW. Because honestly CW ending with them all kissing and making up will really devalue the importance of the story for me. I don't want a scuffle between Steve and Tony and them looking into each others eyes at the end telling each other how their gonna miss each other while Tony retires AGAIN and Cap leads a The Avengers AGAIN. Been there, done that. I want an impactful resolution that shakes the entire MCU and Cap's death will do that in spades. It's not to make you go OMG! It's to make the MCU go OMG.

Killing Cap is just pointless if he is coming back and we all know it. It makes the point of the movie meaningless. Plus, it is not like other movies will focus on it. You'd only feel it in CW and IW1, and that's it. Th Guardians won't mention. Thor won't be on Earth for it. Dr. Strange has no presence in the Cap series, so he won't feel it. Spider-Man might. But that'd be it. It would be absent in every other movie. I'd rather see the fighting stop, friendships fratcured, and watching them deal with the consequences as they find a way back over time. THAT is what will carry over multiple films. I'd rather be not be fed shock value crap that will be undone in 2 years. If you're going to kill Cap, have balls and make it stick. Don't have your cake and cheapen it, too.

 

[SuperSanchez]

That's interesting, could be. But to kill him off at the end of IW 1 only to bring him back in IW 2 is a bit lame. Killing him off in CW means there will be a whole 2 years of the Marvel Cinematic Universe with Cap dead and I think that's exciting. Seeing how the rest of the universe reacts to the death of a living legend like Cap for the next few films. It could even play in the Netflix Series' and Agents of Shield.

I still think Cap could die at the end of Civil War even if Evans has confirmed shooting back to back for IW 1 and 2. I think his comments are to throw people off into thinking Cap is safe. Of course immediately we know he's gonna come back if he dies in CW but it's not really for us to be shocked, it's like Bucky's reveal, that was for Cap, not for us, we all knew TWS was Bucky. Cap's death will be for the rest of the MCU to reflect.

Cap will be brought back to life at the end of IW 1 with either the time gem, or the soul gem. If they have the balls to kill him.

that pisses me off so much, If they're gonna kill him do it right! Leave him dead! If they want Captain America, there's this guy I know named Sebastian Stan!

 

[DoubleO88]

Killing Cap is just pointless if he is coming back and we all know it. It makes the point of the movie meaningless. Plus, it is not like other movies will focus on it. You'd only feel it in CW and IW1, and that's it. Th Guardians won't mention. Thor won't be on Earth for it. Dr. Strange has no presence in the Cap series, so he won't feel it. Spider-Man might. But that'd be it. It would be absent in every other movie. I'd rather see the fighting stop, friendships fratcured, and watching them deal with the consequences as they find a way back over time. THAT is what will carry over multiple films. I'd rather be not be fed shock value crap that will be undone in 2 years. If you're going to kill Cap, have balls and make it stick. Don't have your cake and cheapen it, too.

What's the point in having a soul gem and a time gem if we're not gonna see it's power being used to bring back the dead? Don't mention quicksilver. Captain America would make much more sense.
This a world of magic and monsters and space gods and aliens. A world where a big purple cgi man with super powers and a batman like blind lawyer in a dark gritty realistic world co-exist. I think it's obvious we'd be getting some resurrection happening.
And who better to do it with than Cap. It's not about dying and staying dead. He'll be dead for two years, we'll probably see other Avengers react to it in Captain Marvel, and you know Black Panther will react to it. I don't think it's a cop out.

Face it all the Avengers will die and then be resurrected in Infinity War 2 anyway. If that doesn't happen Thanos will look weak as ****.

 

[Spider-Fan]

What's the point in having a soul gem and a time gem if we're not gonna see it's power being used to bring back the dead? Don't mention quicksilver. Captain America would make much more sense.
This a world of magic and monsters and space gods and aliens. A world where a big purple cgi man with super powers and a batman like blind lawyer in a dark gritty realistic world co-exist. I think it's obvious we'd be getting some resurrection happening.
And who better to do it with than Cap. It's not about dying and staying dead. He'll be dead for two years, we'll probably see other Avengers react to it in Captain Marvel, and you know Black Panther will react to it. I don't think it's a cop out.

Face it all the Avengers will die and then be resurrected in Infinity War 2 anyway. If that doesn't happen Thanos will look weak as ****.

I'd rather see the gems used to resurrect the Avengers after Thanos kills them (like in Infinity Gauntlet), than to see them cheapen the end of Cap 3. That at least makes sense and within the confines of IW2, it makes Thanos look intimidating, provides shock for the audience, and ultimately allows the situation to be resolved. Conversely, It is a MAJOR cop out to kill Cap in Civil War. Save killing Cap for when you know Evans is done and let that be how he exits stage left. Plus, like you said, the Avengers are likely to die in IW2. Don't cheapen death in your franchise by resurrecting Cap early, especially since everyone else will need to be later. Just do it all at once. I'd rather see the Avengers have to find a way to trust one another in order to save the universe from Thanos due to the splinter cause by the Civil War. It is a much more interesting angle from a character development perspective and presents far more story opportunities. Honestly, I can already see the see of critics groaning at Cap dying in the movie, and I am inclined to agree if it happens. The "oops I died, OH WAIT NO I DIDN'T" bait and switch will become tiresome if over used. Marvel has played that card a lot already. Avoid it, at least until IW2 (in which it is sure to happen).

 

[SuperSanchez]

What's the point in having a soul gem and a time gem if we're not gonna see it's power being used to bring back the dead? Don't mention quicksilver. Captain America would make much more sense.
This a world of magic and monsters and space gods and aliens. A world where a big purple cgi man with super powers and a batman like blind lawyer in a dark gritty realistic world co-exist. I think it's obvious we'd be getting some resurrection happening.
And who better to do it with than Cap. It's not about dying and staying dead. He'll be dead for two years, we'll probably see other Avengers react to it in Captain Marvel, and you know Black Panther will react to it. I don't think it's a cop out.

Face it all the Avengers will die and then be resurrected in Infinity War 2 anyway. If that doesn't happen Thanos will look weak as ****.

Ok heres my idea! End of infinity wars P1, all the Avengers die! Thanos just wipes them out! First time we see a villain actually win and then the the defenders find the Avenger's bodies and in Infinity Wars Part 2 they bring them back and Infinity Wars Part 2 will be all the heroes seen in all the MCU movies and tv shows team up and take down Ultron, maybe some skrulls?

 

[bored]

Skrulls are tied up at Fox with the Fantastic Four rights.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Isn't it just super skrull who's tied up? While marvel is free to use the skrulls.

 

[SuperSanchez]

Skrulls are tied up at Fox with the Fantastic Four rights.

far from the point I'm making, but thanks I didn't know they were fox hahaha

 

[DoubleO88]

I'd rather see the gems used to resurrect the Avengers after Thanos kills them (like in Infinity Gauntlet), than to see them cheapen the end of Cap 3. That at least makes sense and within the confines of IW2, it makes Thanos look intimidating, provides shock for the audience, and ultimately allows the situation to be resolved. Conversely, It is a MAJOR cop out to kill Cap in Civil War. Save killing Cap for when you know Evans is done and let that be how he exits stage left. Plus, like you said, the Avengers are likely to die in IW2. Don't cheapen death in your franchise by resurrecting Cap early, especially since everyone else will need to be later. Just do it all at once. I'd rather see the Avengers have to find a way to trust one another in order to save the universe from Thanos due to the splinter cause by the Civil War. It is a much more interesting angle from a character development perspective and presents far more story opportunities. Honestly, I can already see the see of critics groaning at Cap dying in the movie, and I am inclined to agree if it happens. The "oops I died, OH WAIT NO I DIDN'T" bait and switch will become tiresome if over used. Marvel has played that card a lot already. Avoid it, at least until IW2 (in which it is sure to happen).

You telling me this scene between Tony and Steve replicated at the end of Civil War wouldn't have an impact? It's not a cop out, it's a called storytelling. It's called character development. It would be a cop out if there were no means to bring people back to life and you had to force a story to do it. But we do have the means, The Infinity Gems. Look I get what you're saying and I wanna see the heroes all die by the hands of Thanos too. But I don't think Cap's death will be cheapened by his return in IW. Was Cap deaths cheaper by his return in the comics? No. Was Superman's death by doomsday cheapened by his return in the comics? Nope. They are still herald as important stories.

To be honest I just want to see that scene at the top with Tony and dead Steve and Civil War being the catalyst for it makes it all that more powerful. It's a Cap film, it needs to stand on it's on. Of course killing someone on paper and then bringing them back to life looks lame. But if it's written well, maybe Cap's not happy about being brought back to life. And when he does die for real (Evans contract is up) he can say "don't use the gems to bring me back this time, let me go in peace. This is my time" You telling me that wouldn't make him look even more heroic?
Don't get me wrong I love your idea about the heroes all being at odds with each other, and having to figure out a way to work together again for Infinity War and I hope it goes that route if they don't kill Cap. But I just don't think marvel will be able to handle it right. They will all just end up group hugging at the end of Cap 3.

Let me clarify though, I only want Cap to die if it's written well and there's some serious emphasis put on it. It can make an impact in a different way rather than just the shock value. Seeing the way the rest of the MCU, especially Tony react to it is where the power is in his death.

@SuperSanchez That sounds cool but i kinda want Thanos to just give up the Gauntlet after realising the power is just too much. It could be subconsciously just like it was in the Infinity Gauntlet book. I don't want The Avenger to deliver some killing blow to him, or for Stark to repulser blast the glove from a God's an all seeing all knowing god's hands. The Avengers don't beat Thanos, Thanos beats himself and he's not shocked either, he ends up understanding that's the way it had to be.

 

[Godzillasaurus]

At first it seemed more like a simple tussle between Stark and Rogers, but now it is turning into a literal Avengers vs Avengers flick

Still sounds awesome AF though, but nothing that I was expecting

 

[warhorse78]

I think what makes this a Captain America movie is that it's the next phase in his story arc. In the first Captian America and The Avengers, he's a man that is willing to die for his country. He still is in Winter Soldier, but he learns that the country he loved isn't the same as that idealistic vision he had as a youth. It's been corrupted. Perhaps it became that way since his death, but maybe it was always like that and he just never noticed.

Whatever the case, WS was a loss of innocence. But, maybe, he can tell himself that that was just SHIELD. But now there's the registration act, and Captain America must choose between the Americas he must defend. Does he fight for the government again, or does he fight for the values that he still believes America stands for. It's this decision that will complete his evolution into what he must become. Not just a soldier that blindly follows orders. But a hero.

I'm pretty sure with his statement in TWS "This isn't freedom, this is fear" says it all on his perspective and POV.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You telling me this scene between Tony and Steve replicated at the end of Civil War wouldn't have an impact? It's not a cop out, it's a called storytelling. It's called character development. It would be a cop out if there were no means to bring people back to life and you had to force a story to do it. But we do have the means, The Infinity Gems. Look I get what you're saying and I wanna see the heroes all die by the hands of Thanos too. But I don't think Cap's death will be cheapened by his return in IW. Was Cap deaths cheaper by his return in the comics? No. Was Superman's death by doomsday cheapened by his return in the comics? Nope. They are still herald as important stories.

1000 times, YES! One thing that has alienated me in comics is that there are no lasting effects ever. Civil War ends, Cap dies. Just as you're interested in Iron Man and the heroes struggle, BOOM! Secret Invasion. As you're getting into the fall out of that, BOOM! Dark Reign. Thor died like 4 times in 6 years at one point. That is awful storytelling. As a reader, I have no reason to care about the stakes in the story because it will just be undone later, and in the value of knowing where the story goes, the ending will cease to effect me the same way. See Coulson's death in The Avengers. Do I get as misty eyed as I did when I saw it the first time? Nope, because I know he just comes back. Same deal with Cap's death post Civil War. Same basically with comics in recent years. Nothing lasts, and the stories suck.

To be honest I just want to see that scene at the top with Tony and dead Steve and Civil War being the catalyst for it makes it all that more powerful. It's a Cap film, it needs to stand on it's on. Of course killing someone on paper and then bringing them back to life looks lame. But if it's written well, maybe Cap's not happy about being brought back to life. And when he does die for real (Evans contract is up) he can say "don't use the gems to bring me back this time, let me go in peace. This is my time" You telling me that wouldn't make him look even more heroic?

Because he died another time prior to the time his death actually matters, he is somehow more heroic? I fail to see the logic. All I see here is making the entire point of the ending pointless.

Don't get me wrong I love your idea about the heroes all being at odds with each other, and having to figure out a way to work together again for Infinity War and I hope it goes that route if they don't kill Cap. But I just don't think marvel will be able to handle it right. They will all just end up group hugging at the end of Cap 3.

I don't see that happening. No matter how it all ends, there will be no group hug. The ending will somehow be bitter sweet, whether it be Cap is arrested, just the relationships are broken, etc. It will carry over into IW no matter how it ends. There won't be a cleansing group hug.

Let me clarify though, I only want Cap to die if it's written well and there's some serious emphasis put on it. It can make an impact in a different way rather than just the shock value. Seeing the way the rest of the MCU, especially Tony react to it is where the power is in his death.

That is a much better image for when Cap is ACTUALLY dead and gone. I'd rather see that given to Evans when he is done, as opposed to wasted when he isn't. It's only a haunting image if it matters. ultimately, killing Cap and bringing him back for IW2 isn't doing that. All that is doing is doing what Marvel HAS been doing recently: killing people to bring in readers and bringing them back when the next event is due out. It is crappy storytelling, and I hope the movies are more above this. Well...hopefully they start being more careful, at least.