Endgame Captain America/Steve Rogers - Chris Evans

[ArmsHeldOut]

That's the way Winter Soldier want you to intepret the scene.

In Peggy's mind, she hasn't seen Steve in a long time.

However, at that point, it is possible Peggy forgot Steve return and they being married (even if she remember she has a good life).

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

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Blue Sky On Mars...

 

[The Caped Knight]

 

[Abudefduf]

Lol so according to Markus & McFeely, Steve kissed his own niece. I can only hope that's all he did with her.

What a pair of monkeys.

EDIT: I'm trying to decide if flirting with your wife's niece is worse than invading the life of Alternate Peggy and erasing her future, possibly without her consent. This is hard

 

[Zarex]

Until a future MCU film or Disney Plus show tells me differently, I'm going to go with the idea that Steve was ALWAYS Peggy's husband, and his time travel mission simply set the universe right.

But yeah, he's going to have a super awkward conversation with Margaret about her niece.

 

[Abudefduf]

That's not how time travel works in the MCU, though. Changing the past has no effect on the future, it just creates a new timeline; that's what the Ancient One said. Otherwise the Avengers could've simply time-traveled to before Thanos destroyed the Stones and stopped him.

Steve was not Peggy's unseen husband, Markus & McFeely are just monkeys who don't even understand the movie they wrote.

 

[Kon]

That's not how time travel works in the MCU, though. Changing the past has no effect on the future, it just creates a new timeline; that's what the Ancient One said. Otherwise the Avengers could've simply time-traveled to before Thanos destroyed the Stones and stopped him.

Steve was not Peggy's unseen husband, Markus & McFeely are just monkeys who don't even understand the movie they wrote.

The idea of the writers is that Steve doesn't change the past. That's why a new timeline wasn't created.

As Steve was always Peggy's husband, he was always part of that past in the main timeline.


If Steve wasn't Peggy's unseen husband, so he create a new timeline when he married Peggy. However, if Steve was Peggy's unseen husband all along, so he's fulfilling his past.

 

[Zarex]

That's not how time travel works in the MCU, though. Changing the past has no effect on the future, it just creates a new timeline; that's what the Ancient One said. Otherwise the Avengers could've simply time-traveled to before Thanos destroyed the Stones and stopped him.

Steve was not Peggy's unseen husband, Markus & McFeely are just monkeys who don't even understand the movie they wrote.

By my thinking Steve's time traveling adventures didn't change anything. He was always Peggy's husband. His travels simply corrected a time anomaly.

And calling two fellows who wrote two extremely well received and wildly popular flicks that properly capped off the most successful franchise in cinematic history "monkeys" is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not a fan of all of their choices - I hated Black Widow not being around for the final battle - but what they and the brothers Russo created was amazing. I doubt your fan fiction version of their last two films would have been an improvement.

 

[Abudefduf]

The idea of the writers is that Steve doesn't change the past. That's why a new timeline wasn't created.

As Steve was always Peggy's husband, he was always part of that past in the main timeline.

The Ancient One told us that's not possible. If you change something in the past (and Steve staying with Peggy instead of becoming an icicle is a change, and a pretty big one at that), you create a new timeline.

You can't alter your own timeline. That's how time-travel worked in Back to the Future, which we were told was inaccurate.

By my thinking Steve's time traveling adventures didn't change anything. He was always Peggy's husband. His travels simply corrected a time anomaly.

Steve's decision to save the world by crashing is plane was not an anomaly. Why would bringing back the stones to their respective timelines "correct" that?

Sorry but that sounds like wishful thinking on your part. The movie doesn't support your theory. Also IIRC the Russos said that Steve did indeed move to another timeline.

 

[Zarex]

The guys you called monkeys have stated that there were two Steves in our timeline - one frozen and one Peggy's fella. It wasn't an alteration to the time line, just how things were meant to be. Until I am shown otherwise, that's the explanation I am going with.

 

[Abudefduf]

If that was an option, then why didn't the Avengers go kill Thanos right before he destroyed the Stones? If the Avengers could've traveled to their own past without creating a new timeline (like you're claiming Steve did), why didn't they do it?

 

[Kon]

The Ancient One told us that's not possible. If you change something in the past (and Steve staying with Peggy instead of becoming an icicle is a change, and a pretty big one at that), you create a new timeline.

You can't alter your own timeline. That's how time-travel worked in Back to the Future, which we were told was inaccurate.

Steve doesn't change his past about him being trapped in ice. There is still an Steve trapped in ice, while the Steve in Endgame live his life with Peggy.

If that was an option, then why didn't the Avengers go kill Thanos right before he destroyed the Stones? If the Avengers could've traveled to their own past without creating a new timeline (like you're claiming Steve did), why didn't they do it?

Avengers can't change their past, because it just creates a new timeline.

Steve doesn't change his past when he travel because he was always Peggy's husband (Steve was always part of that past). That's the idea of the writers. In other words, a Stable Time Loop.

The directors think Steve creates a new timeline. However, even there, it should be two Steves at the same time (the Steve from main timeline married Peggy, while the Steve trapped in ice of the alternative timeline exist too).

 

[Abudefduf]

That's the idea of the writers. In other words, a Stable Time Loop.

Like in Twelve Monkeys.

But that would be still at odds with what the Ancient One said. She pretty much said that if you change the past you don't fix your own timeline, you create a new one. Like in Dragon Ball Z.

Time travel can't work both ways in the MCU. It's either one or the other.

The directors think Steve creates a new timeline. However, even there, it should be two Steves at the same time (the Steve from main timeline married Peggy, while the Steve trapped in ice of the alternative timeline exist too).

Yeah, I'm not questioning that.

 

[Zarex]

If that was an option, then why didn't the Avengers go kill Thanos right before he destroyed the Stones? If the Avengers could've traveled to their own past without creating a new timeline (like you're claiming Steve did), why didn't they do it?

You think tackling an Infinity Gauntlet wielding Thanos with a go team of Rocket, Rhodey, Nebula, Tony, Lebowski Thor, Scott, Clint , Nathasha and Professor Hulk would have been successful? The Time Heist the monkeys came up with was a much better idea.

 

[The Caped Knight]

For the record, when Steve kissed Sharon it was a moment of passion and chemistry that had been building since he met her in the Winter Soldier as his neighbor. (he had no idea she was related to Peggy until the funeral.) furthermore in the comics Steve and Sharon have been a couple for years and the writers tried to bring that to the big Screen, the problem is the on screen chemistry between Scarlett and Chris Evans was much more dynamic than that with Emily Van Camp. The relationship between Steve and Natasha served much more satisfying results than Steve exploring a real relationship with Sharon, especially after the fallout of Civil War with Cap a wanted fugitive.

I'm glad that tptb decided to have Steve and Natasha more like a brother / sister friendship rather than a romantic relationship. It definitely gave more weight to Black Widow.

As for Steve and Peggy, I can understand why Steve loves her so much and visa-versa they share a common connection. Pre-Super Soldier serum Steve had a noble heart and good character, yet he was overlooked and unappreciated for his fail physicality. Peggy is a strong and tough woman, but because of her femininity and the Era of the times she is often underestimated and judge. Basically two half of the same coin.

 

[metaphysician]

I'm calling BS as their explanation goes against the time travel rules they set up for the film. I'm more willing to believe the Russo Bros explanation of him creating a branched timeline and he uses the quantum GPS to get back to main MCU timeline.

In my case, I would go one further: the writers write what they choose to write, but it is the director who ultimately decides upon the story. If the director says one thing and the writer says another? The director wins.

 

[ZenTheAvenger]

Chris Evans' Cap will always be my MVP.

 

[Abudefduf]

You think tackling an Infinity Gauntlet wielding Thanos with a go team of Rocket, Rhodey, Nebula, Tony, Lebowski Thor, Scott, Clint , Nathasha and Professor Hulk would have been successful? The Time Heist the monkeys came up with was a much better idea.

And Carol. They could've waited for her to come back and brought her with them. It's pretty much the same team that confronted Thanos at the beginning of the movie.

 

[Kon]

Like in Twelve Monkeys.

But that would be still at odds with what the Ancient One said. She pretty much said that if you change the past you don't fix your own timeline, you create a new one. Like in Dragon Ball Z.

Time travel can't work both ways in the MCU. It's either one or the other.

Yeah, I'm not questioning that.

In fact, it can exist both forms.

Ancient One just said that you can't change the past to fix your own timeline.

An Alternative Timeline and a Stable Time Loop are ways to not change the past.

A Stable Time Loop is confused, but it doesn't really change the past. This only makes "the past that happened" happen.

In other words, according to the writers, Steve was always Peggy's husband (while there was another Steve trapped in Ice). His travel in the time just fulfill this.

 

[Zarex]

Like in Twelve Monkeys.

But that would be still at odds with what the Ancient One said. She pretty much said that if you change the past you don't fix your own timeline, you create a new one. Like in Dragon Ball Z.

Time travel can't work both ways in the MCU. It's either one or the other.

And Bruce made the point that they weren't going to change anything. The Avengers were going to sneak the gems out and put them back where they got them without anyone being the wiser. Time Heist!

Obviously it didn't completely work out as planned, and we've got at least one new Loki timeline. And perhaps a new Thanos free-timeline, though I like the idea that dusting takes you out of the timeline and Thanos along with his minions were deposited back in 2014.

 

[Zarex]

And Carol. They could've waited for her to come back and brought her with them. It's pretty much the same team that confronted Thanos at the beginning of the movie.

They had no idea when (or if) Carol would be coming back. And the Thanos from the beginning of the film was crippled and missing a certain weapon.

 

[Abudefduf]

In fact, it can exist both forms.

No it can't. Not according to the movie.

I don't care what the two monkeys said, I'll stick with the Russos explanation since it's actually consistent with what was shown in the film. I mean I still hate it since I think Steve would never invade another timeline to get his happy ending, but at least it makes sense.

 

[Kon]

In my case, I would go one further: the writers write what they choose to write, but it is the director who ultimately decides upon the story. If the director says one thing and the writer says another? The director wins.

The beauty of the disagree between writers and directors in this aspect of Steve is that you can decide what you want, because both parts where involved in this story.

If the directors definitely won with their opinion, why the return of Steve from another timeline wasn't more clear.

At the end, it will depend if future movies or series want to handle this topic.

 

[metaphysician]

Until a future MCU film or Disney Plus show tells me differently, I'm going to go with the idea that Steve was ALWAYS Peggy's husband, and his time travel mission simply set the universe right.

But yeah, he's going to have a super awkward conversation with Margaret about her niece.

Why, exactly, are you assuming this, when the rules of time travel are clearly stated in the movie? Especially when doing so simultaneously requires massive amounts of character assassination?

 

[Zarex]

In my case, I would go one further: the writers write what they choose to write, but it is the director who ultimately decides upon the story. If the director says one thing and the writer says another? The director wins.

As always, it's up to the viewer to decide how they choose to interpret what they've seen. Ultimately it's going to be the NEXT MCU writing and directing teams that delve into time travel who will (hopefully) clarify the consequences of Team Time Heist.