Endgame Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers - Brie Larson

[heatvision38]

Did u have the same level of frustration for Black Panther in Infinity War w.his limited appearance in that movie?

He fought alongside characters he had no real onscreen interactions with like Falcon, Scarlett Witch, Vission, War Machine, and Hulk. On top of that he played less of a role in that movie than she did in Endgame. Wakanda was crucial but Black Panther wasnt--- Captain Marvel had more crowd pleasing moments and a bigger presence than he did in Infity War and I dod9nt hear all this hate for him cuz he was hardly in that movie.

Not for all, but for a sinficant vocal few why cant we just admit it's not rational and their hatred is based in 'other' things.

I don't think your response is really addressing any of the specifics I laid out. If you are already coming from a place of generalizing my response, then you are going to miss the actual points. I even said Spider-Man was shoehorned in, so it's not like I am picking and choosing what's convenient. I also said that at least with Spider-Man, the difference is that they spent more time on Peter Parker and his dynamic with Tony before he shows up in the airport. Plus he doesn't do anything that really takes away from any other character.

To address Black Panther, when I think of IW, one of the images that comes to mind is the battle of Wakanda. So yes, I do think Black Panther, and by extension, his people, his city, etc, played a huge role in the movie. It's where the final battle takes place. I saw people after IW saying they thought Black Panther was underutilized or that had they known his movie would make a billion dollars, they would have given him more to do, but I think an important part of why Black Panther was so successful was not just the character himself, but all of it. We got BP, we got Shuri, M'Baku, the beautiful city, the outdoor plains of Africa, the technology, and so on. All of that was a part of why BP was so successful. We were teleported into this fantastic world. So, with that being said, those same things-- BP, his people, the lands, the tech, etc-- were important parts of IW.

 

[writer0327]

The difference between Black Panther in that movie and Captain Marvel in Endgame is that IW wasn't BP's introduction to the Avengers. He already had a relationship with them, that's why it was okay that his role in IW wasn't too big.

Endgame on the other hand is the first time we see CM interact with the Avengers... and I'm not sure "interact" is the right word to use considering how little of that we actually see.

Spoiler

Then she's gone. And then she comes back again at the end to get our heroes out of trouble.

She's as much a character as the Eagles were in LotR. She deserved better.

BP, or more importantly Wakanda was integral to the IW storyline. CM did two major things that was integral to EG and one was a plot device.

Did u have the same level of frustration for Black Panther in Infinity War w.his limited appearance in that movie?

He fought alongside characters he had no real onscreen interactions with like Falcon, Scarlett Witch, Vission, War Machine, and Hulk. On top of that he played less of a role in that movie than she did in Endgame. Wakanda was crucial but Black Panther wasnt--- Captain Marvel had more crowd pleasing moments and a bigger presence than he did in Infity War and I dod9nt hear all this hate for him cuz he was hardly in that movie.

Not for all, but for a sinficant vocal few why cant we just admit it's not rational and their hatred is based in 'other' things.

I don't really consider this hate for CM, just objective analysis. I said before (and its really a minor point) I am not happy how she was used in Endgame because I really wanted them to flesh out her relationships with the Avengers a little more. Is it a bad thing to say I actually wanted MORE Carol... Why not replace the Tesseract heist with her movie, since we know that's where she got her powers from? It might have given her a chance to connect with one of the Avengers and deepen her relationship with them. Instead we got about 8 minutes of total screen time. Her scenes felt contrived, just like Spidey in Civil War.

The BP comparison is a little off because the character of T'challa wasn't really integral to the IW storyline the way Carol was to EG. Wakanda was certainly important, or more directly Shuri and her attempts to remove the stone from Vision before Thanos got there. So its not like they shoehorned the character of BP into IW, since they were going to Wakanda, who has the technology needed to remove the stone, those scenes flowed organically within the context of the story and the universe and it made sense. However Carol didn't feel organic to this story.

 

[roxas99]

Did u have the same level of frustration for Black Panther in Infinity War w.his limited appearance in that movie?

He fought alongside characters he had no real onscreen interactions with like Falcon, Scarlett Witch, Vission, War Machine, and Hulk. On top of that he played less of a role in that movie than she did in Endgame. Wakanda was crucial but Black Panther wasnt--- Captain Marvel had more crowd pleasing moments and a bigger presence than he did in Infity War and I dod9nt hear all this hate for him cuz he was hardly in that movie.

Not for all, but for a sinficant vocal few why cant we just admit it's not rational and their hatred is based in 'other' things.

Thank you for pointing that out

Black panther was way more hyped than Captain Marvel ever was during the Infinity war marketing and He barley did anything in infinity war despite the fact that a big part of the movie took place in his home Wakanda. he had no stand out moments and the crowd i saw infinity war with definitely did go not crazy over him like they did when Captain marvel showed up at the end of endgame

yet I did not see anybody claiming he should not have been in the movie or his part should have been cut.

I said if before and I will say it again there is more going on here than just some small minority being upset over a characters limited screen-time

Im just going to be honest I really do believe if captain marvel was male very few would even be talking about right about now...

 

[OroroGambitFan]

thank you for pointing that out

Black panther was way more hyped than captain marvel ever was during the infinity war marketing and He barley did anything in infinity war despite the fact that a big part of the movie took place in his home Wakanda. he had no stand out moments and the crowd i saw infinity war with definitely did not crazy over him like they did when Captain marvel showed up at of endgame

yet I did not see anybody claiming he should not have been in the movie or his part should have been cut.

I said if before and I will say it again there is more going on here than just some small minority being upset of a characters limted screen-time

Im just going to be honest I really do believe if captain marvel was male very few would even be talking about right about now

Well articulated and I completely agree 100%

 

[Nvmyprixgt]

No

Ah, so you hate her because she’s a vocal feminist. And you ignore Chris Evans and Mark Ruffalo vocally championing progressivism and diversity because of what? Oh, right, it’s because Larson is a woman.

nope can’t stand them either. I like there characters tho.

 

[Nvmyprixgt]

I agree, I think she looks more attractive with short hair.

Amazing troll post 10/10

 

[Bo Dallas]

Im just going to be honest I really do believe if captain marvel was male very few would even be talking about right about now

If that’s the place you’re choosing to come from then you’re already placing yourself in a box that makes it challenging to have anything resembling respectful discourse. You’ve already branded us with whatever ideals you associate with “the other side” of this conversation.

 

[writer0327]

Im just going to be honest I really do believe if captain marvel was male very few would even be talking about right about now...

I actually agree with this, although maybe for different reasons. Why do you think this is?
Is it because people feel Captain Marvel is an "agenda-driven" character? Or do you think this is because just people don't like Brie Larson? Or is it because people don't like female heroes? Or is it all three?

 

[roxas99]

If that’s the place you’re choosing to come from then you’re already placing yourself in a box that makes it challenging to have anything resembling respectful discourse. You’ve already branded us with whatever ideals you associate with “the other side” of this conversation.

I branded nobody

I said "very few" would be talking about this if her character was a male because in the MCU there are so many other characters who have done many of the same things Captain marvel is currently accused of doing yet they did not get anything close to the hate that she does and if you think what i said is controversial

That is nothing compared to some of the horrible things I have heard about brie Larson and Captain marvel long before her movie was even out.


Look Im not accusing you of hating Captain marvel because she is a woman
but In not foolish enough to pretend that her gender is not playing a huge role in how that character is being treated by many.

like I said before if you want to know how many really feel go to a negative Brie Larson video on youtube and read the comments for yourself....

 

[Abudefduf]

Yeah the blacklash against Brie Larson has become downright disturbing. Even if you dislike her and/or the character she's playing, the hate she's getting is still excessive. She's being treated like a controversial politician when she's just an actress with some strong opinions. It's not like her beliefs can actually hurt anyone. It's misogyny, pure and simple.

Also her short haircut was hawt

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Ask me if I’m surprised that the ‘pro Captain Marvel’ side of this discussion is the side that reverted to name calling.

Ask me if I'm surprised that the anti posters put out incredibly stupid things like "X made me throw up" or "You guys are liars, no one cheered or clapped during Y scene" and are now acting as though pointing out how dumb those posts are is some terrible breach of conviviality.

Try to express oneself without hyperbolic flourish detached from reality and you'll get more respect for your opinion.

This is another thing BTW... No one is owed any respect for their opinions. Say something that's foolish, fact free, exaggerated in the extreme or the like and no one is obligated to respect it.

And when you put that out there with not a shred of self awareness don't get resentful that people look at said opinion and make their judgements accordingly. Maybe that's not fair, but that's life.

 

[Mars452]

I actually agree with this, although maybe for different reasons. Why do you think this is?
Is it because people feel Captain Marvel is an "agenda-driven" character? Or do you think this is because just people don't like Brie Larson? Or is it because people don't like female heroes? Or is it all three?

Part of it is that Brie Larson is both vocally feminist and female. There are a bunch of MCU cast who are vocally progressive in some way or another but the most prominent ones (Chris Evans, Mark Ruffalo, and Samuel L Jackson) have Y chromosomes and so that certain crowd is less offended when they voice opinions. Objectively speaking, Larson said that she wanted the entertainment press to be more diverse, and its bewildering that any kind of “Extremely Online” geek group would give two ****s about that in normal, non-ComicsGate/Alt-Right circumstances (I saw a Breitbart article slamming her saying that she should be grateful to older actresses who broke ground and it was the dumbest **** ever).

Part of it is the character. In the context of the MCU, she’s supposed to be a lead character and not a supporting one like Scarlet Witch or Black Widow. She’s also a rare example of a female flying brick archetype, which means she can go toe to toe with the main villain and take a punch as well. And the worst of it is that she’s not sexualized at all, versus somebody like Black Widow who wears a catsuit Wanda whose costume is designed to push her boobs into frame during her action scenes. All Carol has is her space armor (speaking of which, her durability has to extend beyond her skin, because there’s no way that Kree commando armor can survive the hits she can).

 

[Bo Dallas]

When a character’s traits are “she’s unbelievably powerful” and “she’s a female” yes, there is going to be backlash.

That doesn’t make a HERo.

Then, you have her written into the main ongoing narrative where characters we cared about were lost and her attitude comes across as “that stinks but don’t worry I’ll go take care of it because I’m powerful and the only reason you guys failed in the first place was because I wasn’t around.”

There’s going to be backlash to THAT. No matter what their gender is.

 

[Nvmyprixgt]

It’s also weird how bad of an actress she is in this role. I saw CM with 7 people mixed male and female and all agreed the acting was just off. Weird since she’s obviously talented. Hate her personality tho

 

[Bo Dallas]

Ask me if I'm surprised that the anti posters put out incredibly stupid things like "X made me throw up" or "You guys are liars, no one cheered or clapped during Y scene" and are now acting as though pointing out how dumb those posts are is some terrible breach of conviviality.

Try to express oneself without hyperbolic flourish detached from reality and you'll get more respect for your opinion.

This is another thing BTW... No one is owed any respect for their opinions. Say something that's foolish, fact free, exaggerated in the extreme or the like and no one is obligated to respect it.

And when you put that out there with not a shred of self awareness don't get resentful that people look at said opinion and make their judgements accordingly. Maybe that's not fair, but that's life.

There’s a difference between choosing not to respect an opinion and being aggressively disrespectfully.

 

[roxas99]

I actually agree with this, although maybe for different reasons. Why do you think this is?
Is it because people feel Captain Marvel is an "agenda-driven" character? Or do you think this is because just people don't like Brie Larson? Or is it because people don't like female heroes? Or is it all three?

I cant just be over just brie Larson because at the time when I first started hearing negative things about the Captain marvel brie Larson had not yet been cast in the role

When I went on marvel Instagram and saw sexist comments about Captain marvel this was before brie Larson had ever made any comments about diversity

My belief is that most of the comic fandom are really good people who don't care about this stuff one way or the other

unfortunately there is also a sizable part of the comic fandom who Hate the very at he idea of a woman or a person of color being the lead of their favorite franchise. The rise of social media has only made the problem worse and to make matters even worse staring in 2016 you now have many alt right figures and groups who have increasingly used the comic, scifi, and video game fandom's to push their own agenda.

 

[MellyGeek]

I branded nobody

I said "very few" would be talking about this if her character was a male because in the MCU there are so many other characters who have done many of the same things Captain marvel is currently accused of doing yet they did not get anything close to the hate that she does and if you think what i said is controversial

That is nothing compared to some of the horrible things I have heard about brie Larson and Captain marvel long before her movie was even out.


Look Im not accusing you of hating Captain marvel because she is a woman
but In not foolish enough to pretend that her gender is not playing a huge role in how that character is being treated by many.

like I said before if you want to know how many really feel go to a negative Brie Larson video on youtube and read the comments for yourself....

Exactly. For one Carol’s role in Endgame almost mirrors Thor’s in Avengers minus being present for the second act. For example Thor completely obliterated the Chitauri coming through the portal akin to Carol taking out Sanctuary II. Thor was also very vocal despite being an unknown and tried to assert dominance over the team on multiple occasions.

I don’t know who has military experience but Carol behaves just like any young fighter pilot. As a matter of fact if you take her and replace her with Tom Cruise as Maverick from Top Gun you have the same character.

Arrogant headstrong female characters just don’t sit well with many people....as much as they refuse to admit.

Brie’s progressive stance outside the film is just an added bonus to be mad. Which makes the concept of her character even more rewarding lol

 

[MellyGeek]

Also did anyone notice Carol’s 2023 uniform is in the color scheme of the OG Captain Marvel/Ms Marvel colors? Dark blue shoulders and primarily red.

 

[kguillou]

I feel that there has to be a bunch of deleted scenes with Carol that had her interact with Cap and the team because she really seemed...superfluous in this movie. She had been in the majority of the marketing for this movie and in every poster but her screentime really wasnt any more than

Spoiler: Spoiler

The ressurected heroes

.

I think the Russos probably just had to cut her character development scenes.

 

[KevTravels]

I feel that there has to be a bunch of deleted scenes with Carol that had her interact with Cap and the team because she really seemed...superfluous in this movie. She had been in the majority of the marketing for this movie and in every poster but her screentime really wasnt any more than

Spoiler: Spoiler

The ressurected heroes

.

I think the Russos probably just had to cut her character development scenes.

I concur. At the very least, there should have been a shot where they stare at her and are like "Tony, who the hell is that?"
And she confidently replies with a "I'm Carol Danvers or a I'm Captain Marvel".

There could have been something where we see her power up or down to accentuate she was basically a GOD on level with Thor and that they should be welcoming her assistance.

 

[writer0327]

I cant just be over just brie Larson because at the time when I first started hearing negative things about the Captain marvel movie brie Larson had not yet been cast in the role

When I went on marvel Instagram and saw sexist comments when they would post
anything about the movie and this was before brie Larson had ever made any comments about
diversity

My belief is that most of the comic fandom are really good people who don't care about this stuff one way or the other

unfortunately there is also a sizable part of the comic fandom who Hate the very at he idea of a woman or a person of color being the lead of their favorite franchise. The rise of social media has only made the problem worse and to make mattesr even worse staring in 2016 you now have many alt right figures and groups who have increasingly used the comic, scifi, and video game fandom's to push their own agenda.

Interesting. I think you've hit upon a good point with these two statements here. Basically there are agendas on both sides. Many within the comic book fandom believe comic companies, particularly Marvel, have been pushing the agenda of diversity down their throats, with Captain Marvel being at the forefront of that charge. And you're saying alt-right groups have also used this medium for their own purposes. Now me personally, I don't know why this is a big problem for either side. Art and political statements go hand in hand and have done so for centuries, because at the end of the day, everyone has an agenda about something.

 

[Abudefduf]

I feel that there has to be a bunch of deleted scenes with Carol that had her interact with Cap and the team because she really seemed...superfluous in this movie.

Scarlett Johansson once talked about a scene with Larson and Ruffalo in an interview, a scene where Brie had to put her hand in front of Ruffalo's face/Hulk's chest. I wonder why it was cut.

 

[spiderman2]

It’s also weird how bad of an actress she is in this role. I saw CM with 7 people mixed male and female and all agreed the acting was just off. Weird since she’s obviously talented. Hate her personality tho

See I disagree big time I thought in her solo movie she owned the rule!

 

[kguillou]

I concur. At the very least, there should have been a shot where they stare at her and are like "Tony, who the hell is that?"
And she confidently replies with a "I'm Carol Danvers or a I'm Captain Marvel".

There could have been something where we see her power up or down to accentuate she was basically a GOD on level with Thor and that they should be welcoming her assistance.

I think Steve and the team already knew Carol when she rescued Tony. I think the post credits scene for CM actually happened before Tony’s rescue. They found Fury’s pager, it summoned her. Introductions were made and they caught each other up on whats been going on and they asked her to look for Tony. But all of that probably REALLY slowed down the pace in the beginning so the Russos felt it wasnt necessary.

My theory anyway.

 

[Enriquespy]

She was good in this one. The focus was properly put on the original Avengers, so I'm fine with what she got. Her power wasn't dwarfed or anything, ans she remained being awesome. It's just that this wasn't a movie for her to be protagonist on. I wanna see what does Marvel do with the character in the future.