Captain Marvel Captain Marvel Spoilers Thread

[dyl1dyl]

can someone please pm me the after credits detailed scene descriptions/spoilers. dont want to read through to get spoiled on the movie but dont mind getting spoiled on post credits

 

[Herolee10]

I'd have preferred if it was Janet who came up with it.

But the first Cap movie was titled The First Avenger.

Steve was the first avenger but it seems like this film rectonned that by making Carol the new first avenger by having her serve as the source of inspiration for the group.

Personally, I am not a fan of this idea.

 

[Ninjablade]

How does that retcon anything when the events of his film still take place about 50 years prior to this film?

If anything this closes a hole of why was the Avengers Initiative even started in the first place. At the time of Iron Man nothing fantastical was really going on, and Hydra was destroyed by American soldiers for the most part barring one guy. The fact that there was an alien invasion years prior that led SHIELD to wanting to find more people like Carol if they could makes total sense.

 

[flickchick85]

It didn't retcon anything - Steve still came first. I don't believe it was ever said that Nick Fury got the idea of the Avengers from Steve (and definitely not the name). He was just the world's first superhuman (and celebrity superhero), and probably the starting point of his search once he realized that was what he needed to do.

As for Fury claiming he started all this when Thor landed - that's BS. Fury's a liar. He lies to manipulate the Avengers, as they even established in that very film. There's no way they could've come up with and manufactured all those Tesseract-based weapons in the, what, weeks (months?) between the Thor film and Avengers. If anything, this film is filling in/fixing wonky continuity stuff.

 

[Herolee10]

How does that retcon anything when the events of his film still take place about 50 years prior to this film?

If anything this closes a hole of why was the Avengers Initiative even started in the first place. At the time of Iron Man nothing fantastical was really going on, and Hydra was destroyed by American soldiers for the most part barring one guy. The fact that there was an alien invasion years prior that led SHIELD to wanting to find more people like Carol if they could makes total sense.

Well for one, Fury told Thor that it was because of the incident in New Mexico (Thor 1) that made him realize that they were not alone in the universe and needed to upgrade their weaponry.

However, this film establishes that Fury had known about aliens since the 90's.

Plus, if Fury only came to the conclusion that the Earth needed heroes like Captain Marvel after his encountet/experiences with her then wouldn't that make her the defacto first Avenger? Steve may have came first but it doesn't seem like he was on Fury's radar until 2 decades after the events of this film.

And from everything that I have heard, it still leaves the mystery open of why didn't Fury call Carol for help earlier? The Earth has faced several global threats before "Infinity War" and yet he never called for her help.

 

[flickchick85]

Again, that very film establishes Fury as a big fat liar who tells the Avengers what he thinks they need to hear in order to get them to march to his pfife.

And no, it doesn't make Carol the first Avenger because Carol was not even IN the Avengers when he formed them. She leaves the planet, and is not part of Fury's project. She just gave him the idea for it.

 

[Herolee10]

It didn't retcon anything - Steve still came first. I don't believe it was ever said that Nick Fury got the idea of the Avengers from Steve (and definitely not the name). He was just the world's first superhuman (and celebrity superhero), and probably the starting point of his search once he realized that was what he needed to do.

As for Fury claiming he started all this when Thor landed - that's BS. Fury's a liar. He lies to manipulate the Avengers, as they even established in that very film. There's no way they could've come up with and manufactured all those Tesseract-based weapons in the, what, weeks (months?) between the Thor film and Avengers? If anything, this film is filling in/fixing wonky continuity stuff.

I thought it was stated that there was a one year gap between the events of "Thor" and "The Avengers". And the impression that I got was that SHIELD had been working on making those advanced weapons for awhile but that the discovery of aliens in New Mexico only hastened their need for them.

Also, well when I do end up watching this I will keep your explanation in mind. I am honestly curious to see what Brie brings to the role. I just don't like the idea of possible rectons like this where it takes away from previously established characters.

I really thought that Steve did serve as a small inspiration for the idea of the Avengers due to him being the first costumed superhero in the world along with his accomplishments in the war. So when I heard that this film stated that Fury only came up with the idea for the group because of Carol, well that placed a damper on that thought.

 

[Hammer!]

Ant-Man and Wasp technically came before Captain Marvel chronologically, and Jackson would have known that as well.

In Avengers, Fury stated, "But you're not the only people out there, are you?" to Thor. That definitely doesn't say one way or the other if he knew about aliens prior to New Mexico. He might have known about aliens from secret Rosswell files he was privy to when he became Director of SHIELD for all we know!

 

[flickchick85]

I never considered Steve the primary inspiration for the Avengers since the Avengers Initiative happened like 70 years after he died (and it's not like Fury knew he'd survived at that time, so he wasn't exactly fresh on anyone's mind, lol). To me the "First Avenger" title just meant he came first. He was the world's first superhuman. I didn't read any further into it than that. *shrug*

 

[Herolee10]

Again, that very film establishes Fury as a big fat liar who tells the Avengers what he thinks they need to hear in order to get them to march to his pfife.

And no, it doesn't make Carol the first Avenger because Carol was not even IN the Avengers when he formed them. She leaves the planet, and is not part of Fury's project. She just gave him the idea for it.

True, Fury has been well established as a manipulative person at times so I guess it's easy to believe that he had lied to the group back then.

Correct me if I am wrong (and given my history on these boards, that would be like A LOT) but if a person served as the inspiration for an idea then doesn't that make them a part of it when it comes to fruition?

I mean Captain America's film is dubbed "The First Avenger" even though the group did not exist back then. Nor was he the first recruit. On the other hand, Carol served as the inspiration for it and was the first superhero that Fury had come into contact with thus even though she was not able to join his group when it was ultimately formed, wouldn't that still make her the first Avenger from his POV?

 

[flickchick85]

Correct me if I am wrong (and given my history on these boards, that would be like A LOT) but if a person served as the inspiration for an idea then doesn't that make them a part of it when it comes to fruition?

No? I don't see why it would. She had nothing to do with them. Fury's adventure with her just gave him an idea, and he named the project after her. It's basically an homage.

I mean Captain America's film is dubbed "The First Avenger" even though thr group did not exist back then. Nor was he the first recruit. On the other hand, Carol served as the inspiration for it and was the first superhero that Fury had coke into contact with thus even though she was not able to join his group when it was ultimately formed, wouldn't that still make her the first Avenger from his POV?

Captain America was a founding member of the Avengers. And he came first. Hence, The First Avenger. Carol was not an Avenger. Fury didn't involve her in the project, and while I haven't seen the film yet so this could be wrong, there's nothing yet to indicate she's even aware the Avengers Initiative is a thing that exists.

 

[flickchick85]

I just have to add, assuming this is true, I REALLY like this development, because the lack of a proper name origin for the Avengers was always a minor peeve of mine, lol. I always wondered, why did Fury call the initiative that when they had nothing to avenge? They were supposed to be a defense force against threats regular humans couldn't handle. That ain't avenging! That moniker didn't exactly fit, despite Whedon's best efforts to make it so with dialogue, lol. It was just a "this sounds cool" kind of name...just like a pilot's call sign.

 

[redhawk23]

Saw the movie tonight. Pretty good. I was surprised by how much of it is very much a hang out vibe. The best I've seen Jackson in a long time. He Larson have good chemistry. There's a bit of a lack of energy to the precedings. Hard to really explain. I wasn't bored by any means but there's a certain lack of momentum. It extends even to how the music is used.

Overall this movie isn't anything we haven't seen 20 times before. Action is pretty Marvel vla d, eneegy beams and quick cuts. The Skrulls are cool. Ben Mendelson does very good work.

 

[flickchick85]

Saw the movie tonight. Pretty good. I was surprised by how much of it is very much a hang out vibe. The best I've seen Jackson in a long time. He Larson have good chemistry.

Overall this movie isn't anything we haven't seen 20 times before. Action is pretty Marvel vla d, eneegy beams and quick cuts. The Skrulls are cool. Ben Mendelson does very good work.

Guess it's time to make a proper user review thread!

Here we go: The Captain Marvel User Review Thread (TAG SPOILERS!!!)

 

[samsnee]

You guys are over thinking the whole First Avenger thing. They only gave it that subtitle because they worried at the time that a hero with the name America wouldn’t sell overseas. That’s all there is to it.

I still think Fury using first contact with Thor as the reason to develop Tesseract weapons is a bigger plot hole now that we know what happens in CM.

 

[flickchick85]

Random question -

In the mid credits scene

Spoiler

was anything said about any change in her appearance? Like is her hair longer or whatever?

I can now confirm....

Spoiler

It's the longer hair!

 

[kvz5]

I can now confirm....

Spoiler

It's the longer hair!

Spoiler

Or was it just straightened out so it looked longer? The suit looks different too, right?

 

[Aximili86]

Except the Skrulls becoming a malevolent force due in large part to the actions of the Kree isn't the result of some "Berkley" poli sci prof. critique of modern geo-politics... It's the story as it's been in the comics for decades as developed by Marvel comics creators from Stan and Jack to Roy Thomas.

From the wikipedia entry on 616 Skrull history:

Eventually, the Skrulls developed long-distance space travel; a great tour of the universe was undertaken, led by Emperor Dorrek. Finally, the Skrull delegation reached the planet Hala, home to the then-barbaric Kree and the peaceful Cotati, and held a contest to determine which of the races would represent Hala to the Skrull Empire. Seventeen members of each race were taken to different uninhabited planetoids where they were left with sufficient supplies for one year. At the end of that period, whichever group had done the most with themselves would be adjudged the most worthy. The Kree were taken to Earth's Moon where they built a great city while the Cotati were taken to another barren world in a different solar system and used their abilities to create a beautiful park. Realizing that the Cotati were going to win, the enraged Kree killed all the Cotati. When the Kree revealed that they had solved the question of who would represent Hala to the Skrulls by destroying their opposition, the Skrull delegates were appalled and vowed that Hala would forever be banned from their circle of favored worlds—so the Kree massacred them as well, took over the Skrull landing spaceship by force, and developed their own technology from it.

Because of the immense distances involved, decades passed before the Skrulls learned of the Kree's activities. By this time it was too late. The Kree were now advanced and audacious enough to attack the Skrulls in their home galaxy. During the millennia that followed, the Kree aggression forced the Skrulls to become a militaristic civilization, and the Skrulls eventually developed the vicious streak needed to conduct intergalactic war. Their entire culture was remade in the warrior image.


So... No this actually not something new. It's adapting this aspect from the comics, just more compact for the purpose of fitting it into a less sprawling medium narrative wise than the comics.

Hm, that history is actually pretty interesting. Happy to concede the point, wasn't personally familiar with the actual origin of the grudge between them there.

I dunno. Personally, by this point, the 1990s, I do need the Skrulls to be bad-natured conquer-y mofos though, especially if they're indeed being set up as a big threat going forward in phase 4. That doesn't mean the Kree should be "good guys" or whatever, of course not, they never have been. I just think you can push the Skrulls-as-victims thing a little too far too, they've gotta have that infiltrate-and-conquer-and-spread-throughout-the-galaxy thing as a part of who they actually are. That all gets ****ed up if it's all as basic as "the Kree personally affronted the Skrull's leader Talos, in very recent history". Mar-Vell being all kum-bah-ya and trying to help them out with tech against Kree orders is just fine, that's all in-character. I just mean like more broadly, I hope that's not the reason the Skrulls are out there going all Genghis Khan on everyone, like they were just sitting around hugging puppies before the Kree decided to whack Mar-Vell and punish Talos.

Not gonna pre-judge it though, making one's mind up in the abstract without having seen it is irrational. Mixing things up for the movies in general isn't something I'm opposed to on principle, actually love thw IM3 twist and that type of thing. And those recent interviews with Mendelsohn where he describes the Skrulls as "these really tough lizard-pigs" or whatever is encouraging, makes them sound more like these scrappy fighters who were a ticking time bomb and now have a supposed excuse to go all kill-crush-destroy on the galaxy. If it's more like that, fine. Again, context matters, this all just might be fine.


EDIT: Regarding Carol being the inspiration for the Avengers rather than Cap, no problem there, that adds up. I think so, anyway - is it directly referenced in Avengers that Cap's WWII exploits were what got the idea kicking around in Fury's head? I can't remember anything like that.

This works though. Nick has personal experience with Carol, and while he's obviously aware of Captain America 50 years earlier, that's probably not front-and-center in his mind at the time. The program's linked to S.H.I.E.L.D., he knew Carol in hsi S.H.I.E.L.D. days, she's a million times more powerful than someone like Steve anyway....

Don't see the problem there, personally. Steve can sort of be a part of Nick's thinking in a broad sense, but his experience Carol (defending the Earth against extraterrestrials no less) is what spurred him to start laying the groundwork of making a team a reality. Takes 15 years to actually pan out.

 

[flickchick85]

Spoiler

Or was it just straightened out so it looked longer? The suit looks different too, right?

Spoiler

I mean honestly it looks like a wig to me, but yes, straightened at the very least, maybe slightly longer even still. But yeah, the suit looks different - more metallic, badass and darker (though that could be the quality of the screencap I saw, lol). I thought her movie suit was perfect, but this one actually looks like an upgrade on first glance.

 

[redhawk23]

No spoilers but this movie probably has my favorite Stan Lee.

 

[psylockolussus]

I can now confirm....

Spoiler

It's the longer hair!

Awesome!

 

[Herolee10]

EDIT: Regarding Carol being the inspiration for the Avengers rather than Cap, no problem there, that adds up. I think so, anyway - is it directly referenced in Avengers that Cap's WWII exploits were what got the idea kicking around in Fury's head? I can't remember anything like that.

This works though. Nick has personal experience with Carol, and while he's obviously aware of Captain America 50 years earlier, that's probably not front-and-center in his mind at the time. The program's linked to S.H.I.E.L.D., he knew Carol in hsi S.H.I.E.L.D. days, she's a million times more powerful than someone like Steve anyway....

Don't see the problem there, personally. Steve can sort of be a part of Nick's thinking in a broad sense, but his experience Carol (defending the Earth against extraterrestrials no less) is what spurred him to start laying the groundwork of making a team a reality. Takes 15 years to actually pan out.

Well I can personally say that the only reason(s) why I'm iffy about this whole thing is that I don't want Marvel to suddenly run with the idea that if it hadn't been for Captain Marvel and her encounter with Nick Fury, then the Avengers as a concept would not exist within the MCU.

I mean she's already being dubbed as the most powerful hero in existence so I don't think she necessarily needs to be given something like being the reason why the likes of the Avengers even exist as well. I want to grow as a fan to like her as a character and not have her character shoved down into our throats as the greatest thing ever.

Until we get confirmation about how she is used in "Endgame", there is always going to be a part of me that is concerned on whether they will run with the idea that Captain Marvel could have saved the day on her own when taking on Thanos.

 

[flickchick85]

Well I can personally say that the only reason(s) why I'm iffy about this whole thing is that I don't want Marvel to suddenly run with the idea that if it hadn't been for Captain Marvel and her encounter with Nick Fury, then the Avengers as a concept would not exist within the MCU.

I see zero problems with this. They've already said she's the reason FURY learns about the "bigger world" he warned Iron Man of in his first appearance. She's the reason he learned of the greater threats. She's the reason he'd be looking out for "extraordinary individuals" to fight the fight no one else saw coming. Makes sense that the Avengers Initiative never would've existed without that. Doesn't take away anything from anybody to fill in that backstory.

 

[Aximili86]

Well I can personally say that the only reason(s) why I'm iffy about this whole thing is that I don't want Marvel to suddenly run with the idea that if it hadn't been for Captain Marvel and her encounter with Nick Fury, then the Avengers as a concept would not exist within the MCU.

Why, though? Obviously haven't seen the movie yet, but on paper it fits.

He hasn't met Cap face-to-face yet, it's 13 years before Tony Stark emerges from a cave with a nuclear reactor for a heart and a suit that can potentially take on whole third-world country's armies. 16 years before Thor falls out of the sky and they hoist a frozen Steve Rogers from the bottom of the ocean.

He tries to recruit Tony for the initiative in 2010 (is IM2 supposed to take place the year it was released? fuzzy on that), if it's at the recruiting stage and Tony's his first potential inductee then it's pretty far along as an idea, he's probably been mulling it over for years.

I mean, Hank Pym aside this is the first superhero the government is aware of. And she has a very personal dynamic with Fury that (from what we know, anyway) Pym didn't, unless Fury crossed paths with the guy in his military days before coming over to S.H.I.E.L.D. in '92.

So why wouldn't it be Carol as an inspiration? Seems more prudent a question. A) She's the first powered person Fury comes across (from all info available). B) She's a ****load more powerful than that big blonde boyscout was during the war, who as far as anyone's concerned is dead anyway, the government won't know better for another 16 years. Tony's still 13 years away from coming on the scene. C) She's just saved the world from two warring alien forces, the type of opponents no army on the planet is going to be able to do jack to even annoy/irritate with their weapons.

...That'll get a guy like Fury thinking, to say the least.

 

[Iceman]

How much are Starforce in the film?